Agreed if I had a single gil for every 2B pants and bikini set I'd be a billionaire.
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."
- Thread starter Persephone
- Start date
- OT
Agreed if I had a single gil for every 2B pants and bikini set I'd be a billionaire.
So to preface, when people say it's the best final fantasy in years, I totally agree.
Heavensward and Shadowbringers have very good stories.
So outfitwise I think Yda and Minfillia have the most dubious outfits out of the main characters:
Of course it's an mmo so you'll have other people's characters in the same world as you so be prepared for cat / bunny girls dressed in underwear in the cities.
The other thing is that some bosses and enemies can be described as sexualised monstrous women.
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I played through it last year and one of the things I felt especially early on is that the tone of the game isn't very consistent. Of course since it's an MMO it's going to have silly stuff, like the golden saucer and comedic quests.
But I made a thread about how this game which mostly seemed kinda light.
You know fantasy, crystals etc etc. Dress up your characters go on an adventure, the final fantasy summons are up to no good.
You're doing these fetch quests and it feels like playing a game like Skyrim.
Then you have a cutscene where you're talking to a chief of a refugee village and a woman comes in saying she was just raped by a group of criminals by and her friend saw is happen and is going to get revenge.
???: Gun...Gundobald... <groan> I-I...
Gundobald: Bertliana!? Gods preserve! What happened!?
Bertliana: I was out foraging...when the Corpse Brigade came... They took me to their hideout...and they...they... <sob>
Bertliana: The whole while, they laughed at me... <sob> They said that I suffer... b-because I cling on to hope... <sob>
Bertliana: Is it wrong to dream of home? Is it wrong to call ourselves Ala Mhigans?
Gundobald: Do not heed such poisonous notions, child. Our dreams are what sustain us. Be strong─I swear to you, those villains will answer for their crimes in due time. But tell me...does anyone else know of this?
Bertliana: Wilred... He saw me outside... He was so angry...
Gundobald: Bertliana!? Gods preserve! What happened!?
Bertliana: I was out foraging...when the Corpse Brigade came... They took me to their hideout...and they...they... <sob>
Bertliana: The whole while, they laughed at me... <sob> They said that I suffer... b-because I cling on to hope... <sob>
Bertliana: Is it wrong to dream of home? Is it wrong to call ourselves Ala Mhigans?
Gundobald: Do not heed such poisonous notions, child. Our dreams are what sustain us. Be strong─I swear to you, those villains will answer for their crimes in due time. But tell me...does anyone else know of this?
Bertliana: Wilred... He saw me outside... He was so angry...
From my perspective it came out of nowhere. Whilst of course the setting is a war torn world, it just felt gratuitous. If she came in saying they stole her money or goods they were going to sell at the market, it would have made no difference to the effectiveness of the scene.
Thankfully there isn't more scenes like this in the game.
So to preface, when people say it's the best final fantasy in years, I totally agree.
Heavensward and Shadowbringers have very good stories.
So outfitwise I think Yda and Minfillia have the most dubious outfits out of the main characters:
Of course it's an mmo so you'll have other people's characters in the same world as you so be prepared for cat / bunny girls dressed in underwear in the cities.
The other thing is that some bosses and enemies can be described as sexualised monstrous women.
---
I played through it last year and one of the things I felt especially early on is that the tone of the game isn't very consistent. Of course since it's an MMO it's going to have silly stuff, like the golden saucer and comedic quests.
But I made a thread about how this game which mostly seemed kinda light.
You know fantasy, crystals etc etc. Dress up your characters go on an adventure, the final fantasy summons are up to no good.
You're doing these fetch quests and it feels like playing a game like Skyrim.
Then you have a cutscene where you're talking to a chief of a refugee village and a woman comes in saying she was just raped by a group of criminals by and her friend saw is happen and is going to get revenge.
???: Gun...Gundobald... <groan> I-I...
Gundobald: Bertliana!? Gods preserve! What happened!?
Bertliana: I was out foraging...when the Corpse Brigade came... They took me to their hideout...and they...they... <sob>
Bertliana: The whole while, they laughed at me... <sob> They said that I suffer... b-because I cling on to hope... <sob>
Bertliana: Is it wrong to dream of home? Is it wrong to call ourselves Ala Mhigans?
Gundobald: Do not heed such poisonous notions, child. Our dreams are what sustain us. Be strong─I swear to you, those villains will answer for their crimes in due time. But tell me...does anyone else know of this?
Bertliana: Wilred... He saw me outside... He was so angry...
From my perspective it came out of nowhere. Whilst of course the setting is a war torn world, it just felt gratuitous. If she came in saying they stole her money or goods they were going to sell at the market, it would have made no difference to the effectiveness of the scene.
Thankfully there isn't more scenes like this in the game.
I feel like ARR had a lot of that problem esp the first dungeon Satasha...
I don't know if it's already been discussed in the past, but I started playing remade The Bard's Tale Trilogy and was quite positively surprised by most of the default class portraits for women. As far as I've understood the original Bard's Tale games didn't have playable women at all. Still they just could not avoid some unfortunate choices, like rogue's (left on second row) bare midriff and wizard's (right on fifth row) boob focus, which certainly aren't as bad as designs are in many, many other games, but they feel like they stand out even worse when they are among other women wearing actual armor and "regular" mage robes.
Unrelated, but the last character is straight up Juno from Banner Saga.I don't know if it's already been discussed in the past, but I started playing remade The Bard's Tale Trilogy and was quite positively surprised by most of the default class portraits for women. As far as I've understood the original Bard's Tale games didn't have playable women at all. Still they just could not avoid some unfortunate choices, like rogue's (left on second row) bare midriff and wizard's (right on fifth row) boob focus, which certainly aren't as bad as designs are in many, many other games, but they feel like they stand out even worse when they are among other women wearing actual armor and "regular" mage robes.
Googled her. Turned out it's literally her, they did crossover characters.
Speaking of which, are the Banner Saga games any good? I've been considering them lately.
I absolutely loved the art but hated the gameplay personally. Only played the first game but it wasn't what I wanted in a SRPG with jumping around and some choices leaving you screwed later (I lost a great character and had a lvl 1 forced in my party at end game which was just awful)
I LOVE Banner Saga. Some of my favorite games ever. The art and music is top-notch. I loved the gameplay, its systems allow for some diverse team comps and aggressive strategy. I found the story and world really awesome. Strongly recommended.
I'm excited for you! Hope you enjoy it. Answer is both yes and no.
I love the games and was super engrossed for the duration of the story. Gameplay-wise it's also great, but I think it might get repetitive if you play the trilogy back to back. Giving some time between each entry might make them appreciate them more (I played the games on release, so a few years between each). And to stick to thread, I quite like how women are treated/represented on the game, as far as I recall at least.
Started doing the last patch quests and completely forgot female hyur midlander (humans) have that stupid girly run from animes. Ugh.
OP
OP
Just be aware that Viera are limited in terms of headwear/hats, if that matters to you.
Also you need to own Shadowbringers (thus not free trial) to play them as well.
You do however get a free fantastia (race/sex change) upon completion of the ARR 2.0 storyline and so one can save that till they buy Shadowbringers and can play Viera.
I hope you enjoy your time. And I hope you find final fantasy drip that speaks to you.
This not a problem solely to Tekken unfortunately.
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oh absolutely, i was just naïve to think a character who is president of a country might be older. boo!
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory generalization
Why is Japan afraid afraid of women that look past the age of 25 (or usually much younger), is the better question.
I wish I could visit this thread without seeing these kinds of statements for once...
The Christmas Cake stereotype will continue on despite the fact that Japan itself has moved on from it. An unfortunate quirk of the global influence of anime
I don't think anime is to blame when it comes to stereotypes, I'm sorry but at this point I'll call it by what it is, Xenophobia
stop.streotyping.people!!!
Hollywood is infamous for it's allergy to older women yet some people like to stereotype POC and let others slide
Like even if we are talking about the games industry alone, how many older women characters are there actually compared to men in Western games? It's a big problem. And honestly some of the biggest sexism scandals in the last year have happened at western studios so we need to be more careful in our words in this thread. It's racist to Asian countries and it's sexist in that it ignores the very real big problem that happens in the western game industry
Yep there are a lot of companies that are in the west that say women main characters don't sell games. Very few western companies actually make their main character a woman as a result, and if a woman does play a prominent role they aren't put on the cover. EA and Ubisoft are incredibly bad for this
Early 00s anime has an unwarranted amount of nostalgia tied to it, which is why the unfound stereotypes such as the "christmas cake" persist in western circles. It's definitely a horrible stereotype, that this thread frankly invokes far too often. That said, I wouldn't call it xenophobia as the intent is focused on the proper portrayal of women, regardless of its cultural touchstones. Both Hollywood & Japan (and everywhere else) are terrible at portraying older women in a competent & respectful manner.
Well, the discussion sparked because of this
So i guess it's fair.
I wasn't talking about that post but in general. Obviously that post is bad but it's not what I meant.
I apologise if my post came off insensitive in some way. It wasn't intended.
But I don't see why it's unfair to criticise Japanese media for an overuse of young characters across media, while older characters, particularly older women are used disproportionately less.
I don't think Japan has moved on from it at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
Well, for starters, it happens in both japanese and western media, both the overuse of young characters and the fall of usage of older characters.
While that is true, I feel it is way more prevalent in Japanese media than western. Including video games. Even too absurd lengths where a character will be designed and portrayed much older than their actual age which will be mid 20s at most.
For example that Tekken character we were talking about.
again all media that is targeted to young adults, like most anime and japanese games, we don't get japanese drama's that target adults in japan, we don't get bones or empire equivalents, we get the flash and steven universe equivalents. tekken while having adult fans is not targeted towards adults, neither is something like fruit baskets or naruto. stereotyping because of the media that is licensed doesn't help anyone. This is mostly a target audience issue that you are stereotyping as all japan, something that happens everywhere in the world and is something that everywhere in the world has issue with
100% incoming, especially from some NPC's (looking at you minfilia).
Other than that, the player characters can be as clothed or as armored as desired. However, I'm disappointed that Pugilists just barely wear anything (starting out at least)
If you are a pugilist wouldn't it make sense to be more covered and armored, since you are up close and personal with enemies?
That's not a pugilist outfit, it's a racial one (Mi'qote). You'll get a proper armor soon enough, or you can recreate the character with any other race except Viera.100% incoming, especially from some NPC's (looking at you minfilia).
Other than that, the player characters can be as clothed or as armored as desired. However, I'm disappointed that Pugilists just barely wear anything (starting out at least)
If you are a pugilist wouldn't it make sense to be more covered and armored, since you are up close and personal with enemies?
100% incoming, especially from some NPC's (looking at you minfilia).
Other than that, the player characters can be as clothed or as armored as desired. However, I'm disappointed that Pugilists just barely wear anything (starting out at least)
If you are a pugilist wouldn't it make sense to be more covered and armored, since you are up close and personal with enemies?
As others have said, this is the miquote racial starting outfit. You'll replace it within 30 minutes
Why is 'well Japan does it more' a valid excuse for generalizing?
It's not just you Mars People and I don't mean to call you out, but I have seen it used around Era and here.
It's not just you Mars People and I don't mean to call you out, but I have seen it used around Era and here.
Its not, and very likely a not true statement either, so in my opinion makes the generalizing worse.
Ah got it. Thanks for clarifying!
OP
OP
This thread had a big conversation about where some members were getting pretty offended about the anti-asian implication that was being posted here even if that wasn't the intent, and in my personal opinion with things going on in the world were very right to mention it. Some posters were defending the blanket statements almost in a way people defend having bikini armour in games, it was a bit of an eye opening moment for me reading sometimes as I have been as guilty of anyone as painting with the same brush Japan as a whole in this regard.
Tekken is the issue then criticize the creators, company and artists for sure but not the whole county :)
Just gotta look at any thread for Returnal to see that fear of old women is not just also a western problem, but a resetera problem even.
Old women are very rarely allowed to exist in any media, I can't think of many games with old women that aren't extremely minor side characters, and how widespread is the whole problem with "man in his 50s action hero, love interest is a women in her 20s or 30s" in tv and movies.
Old women are very rarely allowed to exist in any media, I can't think of many games with old women that aren't extremely minor side characters, and how widespread is the whole problem with "man in his 50s action hero, love interest is a women in her 20s or 30s" in tv and movies.
Yeah like, I think "X company has a problem with older women" works or even "the Japanese gaming scene has a problem with older women" if you want to laser focus on one particular area of discussion, but "Japan has a problem" is the kind of generalization that should be avoided, because you're not talking about media anymore, you're talking about an entire country. It's easy for me as an outsider to say shit like that overlooking the people in those countries making an effort to change it.
Namco has exactly two female characters over the age of thirty in either of their fighters, Ivy and Hilde from Soul Calibur, and the former was also age-locked at 32 so she could appear as-is after the timeskip in Soul Calibur V while the latter got to be 36 (and I think she had a kid too, which is really weird for Namco because they also threw out Jun Kazama and Michelle Chang after they had kids), but then come Soul Calibur VI Hilde is also young again (even younger than her original appearance in Soul Calibur IV, where she was 18, since SCVI is set during the events of Soul Calibur) so it's just Ivy now.
Tekken brought back Kunimitsu but made sure it was her daughter instead of the original Kunimitsu from Tekken 1 and 2.
Namco has exactly two female characters over the age of thirty in either of their fighters, Ivy and Hilde from Soul Calibur, and the former was also age-locked at 32 so she could appear as-is after the timeskip in Soul Calibur V while the latter got to be 36 (and I think she had a kid too, which is really weird for Namco because they also threw out Jun Kazama and Michelle Chang after they had kids), but then come Soul Calibur VI Hilde is also young again (even younger than her original appearance in Soul Calibur IV, where she was 18, since SCVI is set during the events of Soul Calibur) so it's just Ivy now.
Tekken brought back Kunimitsu but made sure it was her daughter instead of the original Kunimitsu from Tekken 1 and 2.
We should be able to say "anime has a problem with the way it objectifies young women" without getting a response of "what about Hollywood". By all means criticize Hollywood as well, but the fact remains anime has problems that should be allowed to be discussed (in various forms of media including games).
Calling out "Japan" as if Japan = Anime isn't okay of course
Calling out "Japan" as if Japan = Anime isn't okay of course