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Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
MinMin is unfortunate because she has a great design, but came at the expense of probably the only black character that had a chance based on how Nintendo is picking characters.
Technically speaking, it was Yabuki who picked. Nintendo didn't care which ARMS character it was, so they passed the ball to Sakurai who passed ball to Yabuki. But yeah, Min Min is a solid pick on her own (great design, overall popular, Smash's first Chinese character). The problem is that, as you said, Twintelle was our best shot at a black character in Smash.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I just hope the developers are hearing that positive feedback - you know how loud and obnoxious the people who clamour for sex appeal can be...
Yeah, I really hope so too. Hopefully they realise it's a real strength of the appeal, especially when (hopefully) both games are trying to tell continent-spanning war stories with an interesting cast rather than sell figurines. I particularly like Geela Briesse.
 
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apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,723
I went down the Azure Striker hole and found this for the spin-off "Luminous Avenger iX". Like, the fuck.
product0102.jpg

Yup, exactly the kind of bullshit I didn't want to look up. Again, Inti Creates games play and feel really good but the children stuff got a bit too much the further into Gunvolt I went and had to hard drop it even if the games themselves were getting better with each entry. Like complaining into the void but why does it have to be this way. Why does that have to be your target audience? You aren't pushing some shitty gatcha game with no other appeal.

The answer I've come up with isn't one I like. As bad as it is to think that it's just a cash grab to pander to a specific audiance it's even worse in a way that it's probably more that it's actually fully the game style that they want to make.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,317
You forgot Tifa, Barret or Terra over Sephiroth.
Wat. I don't play Smash, but if I did, I'd rather have Sephiroth over any of those, especially Tifa.

Speaking of Tifa, I've been finally playing FF7R and I have.... opinions on it that are sure to ruffle feathers, lol. Might make an LTTP thread about it.
 

Samawati

Member
Sep 15, 2019
216
Speaking of Tifa, I've been finally playing FF7R and I have.... opinions on it that are sure to ruffle feathers, lol. Might make an LTTP thread about it.
Her portrayal in FFVIIR and the Comp in general is garbage, so chances are you wouldn't be wrong (and I say this as the world's biggest Tifa stan).

Wat. I don't play Smash, but if I did, I'd rather have Sephiroth over any of those, especially Tifa.
That being said, I'd love to be able to play her in a fighting game. Not Smash though, since I don't play that.
 

Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,768
Wat. I don't play Smash, but if I did, I'd rather have Sephiroth over any of those, especially Tifa.

Speaking of Tifa, I've been finally playing FF7R and I have.... opinions on it that are sure to ruffle feathers, lol. Might make an LTTP thread about it.

Are you liking how much time she spends laying on the ground waiting for Cloud to help her get up 🥴 stronq female cadaver
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,070
Wat. I don't play Smash, but if I did, I'd rather have Sephiroth over any of those, especially Tifa.

Speaking of Tifa, I've been finally playing FF7R and I have.... opinions on it that are sure to ruffle feathers, lol. Might make an LTTP thread about it.
My fiance walking into the room while I was playing as Tifa: "Why are you playing as a hooker?"
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,317
Tbh right now I'm more annoyed by Aerith since she's the one who's been around (just got to the Wall Market).

Honestly, Jessie gets flak but she's the only likeable woman so far (maybe Elmyra, lol, I was like "finally a normal human person and not a walking anime caricature!").
 
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Persephone

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,408
I haven't played FF7R or watched videos but the gifs I've seen drive me crazy with the anime body language. with the super detailed character models it's super uncanny valley lol. like... people don't move like that.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Tifa & Aerith outside of mo-capped cutscenes are infinitely more awkwardly animated than when they're in them. Tifa especially moves and acts like an anime highschooler which is so far off-base it's distracting. Would love that to be something the PS5 version fixes but I doubt it at this point.

I will say Aerith's characterization in the Remake is the best it's been since the original, though. At least she isn't an angelic waif anymore.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,830
the wilderness
Wat. I don't play Smash, but if I did, I'd rather have Sephiroth over any of those, especially Tifa.

Speaking of Tifa, I've been finally playing FF7R and I have.... opinions on it that are sure to ruffle feathers, lol. Might make an LTTP thread about it.

Despite being an absolute fan of the original FF7 (it was so impressive on the PS1 back then.....) nothing in the remake really appealed to me. So I never played it except for a few minutes of the demo.

But everything I saw (let's plays, screenshots, trailers, etc.) of the female characters seemed to be very standard anime stuff, so it's definitely a huge reason for me to stay far away from it. And the screenshots of the recent Yuffie's reveal for the upcoming DLC didn't make me change my mind at all...

I would be very interested to read your LTTP thread.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
The English Wilderness
I haven't played FF7R or watched videos but the gifs I've seen drive me crazy with the anime body language. with the super detailed character models it's super uncanny valley lol. like... people don't move like that.
There are definitely people who real life who subscribed to the "everything I learned about human interaction, I learned from anime and video games" newsletter...
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Wat. I don't play Smash, but if I did, I'd rather have Sephiroth over any of those, especially Tifa.

Speaking of Tifa, I've been finally playing FF7R and I have.... opinions on it that are sure to ruffle feathers, lol. Might make an LTTP thread about it.
Tifa while slightly more improved (and when I say slightly I mean the sport bra additions which is a very small change) still didn't feel like an improvement. Her overly anime animations (which to be fair, most characters do but the women are for some reason extra anime) and her "waifu" vibes is still the same as it was in the original. I wish they went the extra mile and actually improved. The original game I can overlook as it is old but the remake is a new game and they could have improved her further.

So you are probably not alone with having issues.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
In a much better timeline, we would have had...
  • Edelgard or Claude over Byleth
  • Twintelle over Min Min
  • Lora over Pyra/Mythra
  • F!Erdrick & Sophia included amongst the Hero alts

I know this forum has some strange hate fetish for XC2, but there isn't a time-line where a character who is only important in DLC should get in over the actual cast of protags in the main game.

I agree on the rest and this...
You forgot Tifa, Barret or Terra over Sephiroth.

If the Smash game and Smash fandom wants to be mentally stuck 20+ years ago with their vision of "important gaming characters" then I'd at least like to have more diverse characters from that era.
 

Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,457
Many people have long been in denial about VIIR's sexism and over-reliance on anime sensibilities in general. Maybe bc the bar is so low with JRPG's. Idk
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,280
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Was just scrolling through Nintendo news this morning and was met with this image and actually laughed out loud:

Blaster-Master-Zero-Trilogy.jpg


Seems to be for a series called Blaster Master Zero. But wow, not sure how much more you could make this look like the female character is literally in a sex position and looking back at you, the viewer of the image. :|



Does Joker count? Since the Switch Persona game didn't come out until quite a while after his inclusion. I could be missing something though as I've not played much in the Persona franchise, but I feel like I remember seeing people use him as an example for just about anything being fair game now.
Blaster Maser Zero (1) is a good game but JFC that promo art. I know the second game cranked up the pandering and it looks like the third will dive even deeper. I love Inti Creates's games from a design perspective but the way they have been pandering harder and harder to otaku is frustrating. Then again, they've always been this way since their partnership with Capcom ended. Gal Gun is the moment when they started down this path.
 

Samawati

Member
Sep 15, 2019
216
Honestly, Jessie gets flak but she's the only likeable woman so far
I think I would have liked Remake Jessie a lot more if she wasn't turned into obvious fodder for the waifubait wars as compared to how she was in the OG. There wasn't a lot there originally, but they could have leaned into her love of tech and her role as the resident expert, but no.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,317
I haven't played FF7R or watched videos but the gifs I've seen drive me crazy with the anime body language. with the super detailed character models it's super uncanny valley lol. like... people don't move like that.
Yuuuuuuup

Honestly I expected it and somehow it's worse than I expected lmao

At least she isn't an angelic waif anymore.
Wat. She 100% is. She is saccharine to the point of being insipid. I hate her lol

Writing my LTTP thread now >.>
 
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Persephone

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,408
era (and the internet in general lmao) has a problem with the idea that you can enjoy problematic media so if you like something you have to blindly defend it against any and all criticism
 

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
5,800
US: PA
Cloud in the remake is just basically every JRPG protag nowadays where every woman only lives to be dated by him.

So annoying. Can't have characters, only waifus.
 
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Samawati

Member
Sep 15, 2019
216
I will say Aerith's characterization in the Remake is the best it's been since the original, though. At least she isn't an angelic waif anymore.
She definitely is. Not as bad as before, but I just think the bar is in hell after how the Comp mangled her. I love Aerith, yet chapter 8 made me want to bang my head against a wall.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Wat. She 100% is. She is saccharine to the point of being insipid. I hate her lol

In the compilation media she existed as a character that was framed by light in every other frame and was effectively useless and needed a dude to help her out.

FFVII R Aerith at least has some confidence and sass to her, she even does some wrasslin' moves with a chair at one point. She's still the mystical chosen one archetype with an attachment to nature but I think it's balanced out fairly well, at least better than most JRPG leads that follow the same template.

EDIT: Just realizing I might have misunderstood what the word "waif" means all these years. In my mind I always assumed it meant helpless/weak.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,169
era (and the internet in general lmao) has a problem with the idea that you can enjoy problematic media so if you like something you have to blindly defend it against any and all criticism

It was only a few years ago that I finally got to the point where I can accept that the stuff I like is problematic and worth criticizing, and that criticism of things I like is not an indictment of my liking them. Too many people get caught up in, "YOU INSULTED THIS CHARACTER I LOVE", when all I said is, "Hey, maybe it'd be better if she didn't have a skirt and thigh-high stockings while in the front line of an army."
 

Timu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,540
era (and the internet in general lmao) has a problem with the idea that you can enjoy problematic media so if you like something you have to blindly defend it against any and all criticism
I'm guessing some people are just too attached to things they like/love and would hope to defend it for the sake of it even if others have problems with it for some reason.
 

Dragmire

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,116
Haha. There's worse like this:
aerith-gif.1282702

At least she was cheering Cloud on during the show in that one. haha
 
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Persephone

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,408
the worst part is the female characters who get waifu-ised are like... actually interesting beneath the anime bullshit. like... Vanille's character is really sad and moving but you have to dig beneath the voice acting and animation to get to it
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Got something you wanna say or is 1 word name-calling accepted on this forum?
Says the person who used 1 "w/e" when people point out your crap. You're the one who came in a thread meant mostly for women, dismissing their criticism of how women are treated in games in a thread meant to be a place for mostly women to vent about such things with "people hating on XB2 for no reason over here" BS and then you act all dismissive when people point out some of the legitimate issues that people have with XB2 with that "whatever" of yours.

And "pathetic" isn't name-calling.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
Your statements seem somewhat dismissive of the problems people have with XB2, if I'm interpreting right. This isn't the thread to come in and say "people have a hate boner of the game".

My post was absolutely dismissive of it because I don't care to chatter on about the designs of XC2 and that wasn't what my post was about. I simply replied to that post because regardless of anyone's feeling about the designs of XC2 it would be disingenuous AF to rep a very successful JRPG with a character who is only really a "thing" in optional DLC over any of the cast of protags important to the actual game ... so there's not really a time-line where that makes sense.

Would make more sense to ask for Elma from XCX if you REALLY want to replace the XC2 characters picked with a different female.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
era (and the internet in general lmao) has a problem with the idea that you can enjoy problematic media so if you like something you have to blindly defend it against any and all criticism

At the risk of sounding like I'm patting myself on the back, I kinda feel like I'm trending towards the opposite?

Unless it's something I already really love (like NieR and Shin Megami Tensei) it feels like it's harder for me to enjoy games that have even minute instances of weird and awful bullshit. Not just Japanese anime-styled games, and it's always way worse for me when the actual creators involved end up being scumbags; I pretty much can't separate the art from the artist there.