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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
Not to mention it's always the same "signifiers" of gender, like there's only one type of feminine body or that femininity is only expressed through boobs. It's tiresome.
Yeah, this is the thing that's always most frustrating. Like somehow, presenting a certain way is feminine and another way is masculine. It's lazy and trope-y. How is it that even now almost all women in videogames are made to present in an extremely traditional way compared to men who have a variety of presentations, roles and body types. Sure, there's still lots of roided out men, but there's also a ton of femboys, and those who are fat, waif-y, and every type in-between. Women seem to, even now, largely fall under the way men want them to seem, to appeal to an extremely narrow audience. It's really fucking difficult to say video games are for everyone when nearly all representations of video game characters are the same types and tropes, presented ad nauseam. And this is especially true of the AAA industry.

And it's not an accident. This has been happening for decades at this point Darkknight2149 Even a cursory reading of this thread will show you countless examples.
 

ConVito

Member
Oct 16, 2018
3,094
I know the bad faith actor has already apparently left the thread, but in response to the tweet they posted, I always figured boob armor wasn't necessarily about being "sexy" (it definitely is a lot of the time, and should absolutely be called out, but there's more to it, right?). I was under the impression that part of the issue was practicality. While the Mandalorian armor isn't exactly titillating, the shape along with that divot right in the middle make it so that a glancing blow could be redirected straight into the sternum.

Obviously sexualized armor deserves to be criticized, I just think that criticism shouldn't stop there.

Not to mention it's always the same "signifiers" of gender, like there's only one type of feminine body or that femininity is only expressed through boobs. It's tiresome.
That too. I never wanted to play the Dark Souls games, but from what I've seen, they handle it really well, with all armor looking the same no matter which sex wears it. Of course, there's still the question of body diversity.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
I know the bad faith actor has already apparently left the thread, but in response to the tweet they posted, I always figured boob armor wasn't necessarily about being "sexy" (it definitely is a lot of the time, and should absolutely be called out, but there's more to it, right?). I was under the impression that part of the issue was practicality. While the Mandalorian armor isn't exactly titillating, the shape along with that divot right in the middle make it so that a glancing blow could be redirected straight into the sternum.

Obviously sexualized armor deserves to be criticized, I just think that criticism shouldn't stop there.
Indeed. Most armor is bowed outward, so blows are deflected away from the chest, because, y'know, people who are wearing armor presumably don't want to die. There is no practical armor that isn't built with this in mind, short of magical bullshit which is what is typically used by dipshits to explain it away. This is of course, barring the actual reason it's there at all, which is to titillate cis-men.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,238

Wait, that wasn't boobed like that in Clone Wars and Rebels was it? Or am I misremembering? Neither was Sabine's either:
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Untitled-design-24.png

Best guess is again it's an attempt to be titillating or the designers just defaulted to boob armour without thinking about it because of how prevalent the former is which is depressing how common that is. It's an issue with how things have been allowed to be normalized and how still their are few to women in these fields to call it out or try to change it (or sadly being talked down, abused or ignored as what we've seen from companies like Ubisoft, Riot, Rockstar etc).

I have a similar issue with Bioware games as well, besides in recent cases with companions, they always default with aliens and humans to making the women smaller and slimmer then the men models and because every NPC uses the same bodies, it's true apparently for every one in the galaxy. Bioware of course isn't the only company to do it but it's the one that irks me the most because of aliens like the Krogan, where the animals they use for reference are those where women are taller... BUT THEY STILL DEFAULT in Andromeda when we finally fully see Krogan women as being smaller and thinner... Like why? Are only on insect women allowed to be taller in fiction (and even then not always)? Like why can't their be taller women NPCs or just more the 1 or 2 body types?
 
Aug 26, 2018
3,731
日本
Wait, that wasn't boobed like that in Clone Wars and Rebels was it? Or am I misremembering? Neither was Sabine's either:
EnOnF76W8AAkrr4

Ehhh... It protrudes outward. I don't think either the cartoon or the live-action version is egregious. It's pretty much just a true-to-life chest protector.
51CpQrfr8SL._SL1000_.jpg


It's the two, specific molded cups that you probably shouldn't be doing.
sc6-hilde-screenshot6.jpg
 
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Scheris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,383
I've only gotten close to the end of the first world, so there may be something questionable in there I haven't came across yet, but I found a Switch game recently (was on sale at the time, not sure if it still is now) that had a female lead but wasn't exploitative, which was a nice change from some of the usual stuff you see pop up on the eShop lately.

www.nintendo.com

QV for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Official Site

Buy QV and shop other great Nintendo products online at the official My Nintendo Store.

Character art has that anime-like vibe to it, but I haven't came across anything fanservice pandering yet. The unlockable costumes you can see a preview of before unlocking them, and they all seemed from the preview not to be drawn in a fan-service-first way (like the Japanese school girl costume having a medium-long skirt, or the holiday-inspired costume being more like a dress instead of the fanservicey short skirt). And there's a lot of different cute short & long hair options.

Translation isn't perfect in English (can't find the publisher's website, but I think they're Asia-based), but it's not machine-translated tier and mostly is small grammatical fixes from what I've played so far and is understandable as it currently is.

I love the watercolor-like art direction also, and I've always been a fan of puzzle/thinking games. So far it seems like a cute & relaxing game. :)
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,351
Wait, that wasn't boobed like that in Clone Wars and Rebels was it? Or am I misremembering? Neither was Sabine's either:


Best guess is again it's an attempt to be titillating or the designers just defaulted to boob armour without thinking about it because of how prevalent the former is which is depressing how common that is. It's an issue with how things have been allowed to be normalized and how still their are few to women in these fields to call it out or try to change it (or sadly being talked down, abused or ignored as what we've seen from companies like Ubisoft, Riot, Rockstar etc).

I have a similar issue with Bioware games as well, besides in recent cases with companions, they always default with aliens and humans to making the women smaller and slimmer then the men models and because every NPC uses the same bodies, it's true apparently for every one in the galaxy. Bioware of course isn't the only company to do it but it's the one that irks me the most because of aliens like the Krogan, where the animals they use for reference are those where women are taller... BUT THEY STILL DEFAULT in Andromeda when we finally fully see Krogan women as being smaller and thinner... Like why? Are only on insect women allowed to be taller in fiction (and even then not always)? Like why can't their be taller women NPCs or just more the 1 or 2 body types?
Female Turians are actually the same height as males.

7714da256e4bc7a25e336e362c1b9917.jpg
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Linking the wikipedia article for the word hyperbole might be, without hyperbole, one of the most insulting things I've seen someone do in a petty internet argument.

"Oh no, these poor stupid people don't know what hyperbole means, let me help them"
 

Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,771
Linking the wikipedia article for the word hyperbole might be, without hyperbole, one of the most insulting things I've seen someone do in a petty internet argument.

"Oh no, these poor stupid people don't know what hyperbole means, let me help them"

I was tempted respond to that with the Godwin's law Wiki entry after he brought up Hitler for no good reason. I don't think these cheap derailers warrant the engagement most of the time, however. They know exactly what they're doing, which is to distract us from the real discussion.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,138
For fun I will post some female Mega Man character designs since it's my favorite video game series. Overall they are nothing terribly offensive but they do leave a lot to be desired. The main flaw is that they are mostly relegated to a support / tech role and rarely get in on the action. Most of them at least get to be very smart characters, but there are also some helpless damsel in distress types.

Mega Man Legends: Roll and Tron

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7b23ee559a8405eb528bbd89d2ee0a61.jpg


These two are definitely highlights of women Megaman characters. They are both super smart (especially compared to the male characters who are mostly dopes), and although Roll only serves as the support and tech role, Tron does the same plus actually piloting her mechs in battle.

They both get to have very well developed personalities (two of the best characters in all MM games) and some nice moments of character development as well - which says something given that this is a Megaman game. Tron does have a crush on Megaman, but I don't think it's anything unreasonable. It's not over the top (I mean it's cartoonish and comedic, but they don't spend tons of time on it), and Tron routinely stands up for herself and places her own aspirations far above any interest in Megaman.

I am not really sure what's going on with Tron's metal crotch plate, but that aside (kind of a big aside I know) both of them also have very good designs.

Mega Man Battle Network: Mai and Roll

Mayl.jpg
2e410fa7da9214b70a4e3e08e174797b.jpg


There's a lot of Battle Network media I haven't seen, but in my experience with 4 different BN games, Mai and Roll are realistically portrayed as "one of the gang", i.e. they are not relegated to the sidelines and they get into the action just as much as any other character (aside from Megaman himself). They are a bit bland (I don't recall Roll having any personality at all really) but they are at least treated fairly in terms of how their strength and intelligence is portrayed. Roll does use a lot of healing and "heart" motif abilities which is quite cliche from the one female hero in a group of 4. It would have been nice if a male character were the healing type and Roll got to do something else. Nothing wrong with Roll being a "girly" character, but since she's the only girl in the main cast of Navi (the digital characters who get all the action) it' s a bit disappointing. I honestly forget if they ever play the "damsel in distress" part but frankly it wouldn't surprise me. One could argue Mai's skirt is too flirty since she's in middle school, but I'm not really sure what middle schoolers normally wear.

Mega Man ZX: Aile

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In Mega Man ZX you get to choose between a male and female character. They are brother and sister, and both exist in the story together (but they are more or less exactly the same with a few design differences). Personality-wise there is not much to say about them, but it is nice they are treated as true equals (although the male version is first on the character select screen). Design-wise I think she looks good, but I'm not really a fan of her shorts. Not that they're problematic, but they don't look as good as the pants and I don't see why she couldn't be wearing the same pants. Even some capri type leggings would be better.

Mega Man X:

dcge7g0-0f13e5c3-8f7a-427d-94bd-bf1c38707cf9.jpg
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d12a2a0e0c00c4541d886cc1bce30d61.jpg


Mega Man X is the worst of the bunch, as most of its female characters frankly are just not good.

Iris: Helpless damsel in distress. No personality other than "help me i'm just a girl". Some of that is due to the awful voice acting, maybe with a different actor she wouldn't come of that way so strongly. Her design is not too bad, although the robot dress makes no sense to me at all. I have never seen a robot dress work well (open challenge!).
Nana: Just another support type female character. No personality to speak of other than being shy. I do actually like her design though! I get that some may not like the jumpsuit, and there's no real reason for a robots to have a bosom, but I actually think she looks sporty in a nice and appropriate way.
Alia: Speaking of bosoms. Alia is yet another woman who is relegated to the generic support role. But she has... boobs that looks pretty human? What? No other character has fleshy looking bits like that. It's just her boobs. Wtf?

And speaking of weirdly flesh-like boobs, from Mega Man X8 we have Layer.

latest


No comment needed.

Lastly from Mega Man X Command Mission there are two playable female characters.

db4smwz-c28f2ce7-88eb-4107-83ed-ee390e94a5cb.png
latest


Cinnamon: Another generic healer type. About as bland as you can get. Not sure why her thighs are flesh colored, other than that (and anoth pointless robot dress) her design is alright, just a bit too bland. As you can already guess, she has a "shy and cute" personality. Yawn.
Marino: Marino has robot boobs and a skin-tight leotard, but you know what? I actually quite like her design. Unlike the designs above, Marino actually displays some agency and power through her design. Despite being sexualized, she still looks like a badass, and in the context of most of the designs I posted before hers, that's actually pretty refreshing.


I'll end there since I've been going for a while, and that basically covers all the female character archtypes in Mega Man games. It should of course be pointed out that women robots are SEVERELY outnumbered by male robots. In the Classic series there are only 2 female robot masters out of about 80. It's a little fuzzy since you can argue that many of the robots are not necessarily "men"... but most of them I would say are signaling male. So even though I can give credit to some of the designs in the series (which a few being awesome standouts), there are still some major problems with it overall.
 
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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,361
That too. I never wanted to play the Dark Souls games, but from what I've seen, they handle it really well, with all armor looking the same no matter which sex wears it. Of course, there's still the question of body diversity.
Dark Souls games do handle it well, but armour sometimes do have changes depending on gender, on rare occasions. But the changes are entirely stylistic and not explicitly gendered. For example, the pyromancer set in Dark Souls, male vs female:

rB9doGt.jpg


I actually like the female set better, haha.

But yeah even when there's skimpy outfits (there's really very few examples, it's just barbarian or desert clothing) they're gender-equal. It's also why I was mildly annoyed at the Demon's Souls remake. Much as I love it, they gave boob cups to some armour sets on the Body Type A (which is clearly coded as female), such as the Black Leather set and the Chain Mail set. The original didn't have those, so... WTF, Bluepoint? Kind of lame.

At least the Fluted Armour still looks good, though.

Demons-Souls_20201115013800ebc3a19a61e4564e.png
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Demon's was the only souls game to gender lock a handful of armor sets as I recall, but I don't remember the women's sets being especially bad or anything. I liked dressing in Yuria's tattered up witch outfit.

But yeah even when there's skimpy outfits (there's really very few examples, it's just barbarian or desert clothing) they're gender-equal. It's also why I was mildly annoyed at the Demon's Souls remake. Much as I love it, they gave boob cups to some armour sets on the Body Type A (which is clearly coded as female), such as the Black Leather set and the Chain Mail set. The original didn't have those, so... WTF, Bluepoint? Kind of lame.

That is disappointing to hear however.
 

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
For fun I will post some female Mega Man character designs since it's my favorite video game series. Overall they are nothing terribly offensive but they do leave a lot to be desired. The main flaw is that they are mostly relegated to a support / tech role and rarely get in on the action. Most of them at least get to be very smart characters, but there are also some helpless damsel in distress types.

Mega Man Legends: Roll and Tron

latest
7b23ee559a8405eb528bbd89d2ee0a61.jpg


These two are definitely highlights of women Megaman characters. They are both super smart (especially compared to the male characters who are mostly dopes), and although Roll only serves as the support and tech role, Tron does the same plus actually piloting her mechs in battle.

They both get to have very well developed personalities (two of the best characters in all MM games) and some nice moments of character development as well - which says something given that this is a Megaman game. Tron does have a crush on Megaman, but I don't think it's anything unreasonable. It's not over the top (I mean it's cartoonish and comedic, but they don't spend tons of time on it), and Tron routinely stands up for herself and places her own aspirations far above any interest in Megaman.

I am not really sure what's going on with Tron's metal crotch plate, but that aside (kind of a big aside I know) both of them also have very good designs.

Mega Man Battle Network: Mai and Roll

Mayl.jpg
2e410fa7da9214b70a4e3e08e174797b.jpg


There's a lot of Battle Network media I haven't seen, but in my experience with 4 different BN games, Mai and Roll are realistically portrayed as "one of the gang", i.e. they are not relegated to the sidelines and they get into the action just as much as any other character (aside from Megaman himself). They are a bit bland (I don't recall Roll having any personality at all really) but they are at least treated fairly in terms of how their strength and intelligence is portrayed. Roll does use a lot of healing and "heart" motif abilities which is quite cliche from the one female hero in a group of 4. It would have been nice if a male character were the healing type and Roll got to do something else. Nothing wrong with Roll being a "girly" character, but since she's the only girl in the main cast of Navi (the digital characters who get all the action) it' s a bit disappointing. I honestly forget if they ever play the "damsel in distress" part but frankly it wouldn't surprise me. One could argue Mai's skirt is too flirty since she's in middle school, but I'm not really sure what middle schoolers normally wear.

Mega Man ZX: Aile

latest
latest


In Mega Man ZX you get to choose between a male and female character. They are brother and sister, and both exist in the story together (but they are more or less exactly the same with a few design differences). Personality-wise there is not much to say about them, but it is nice they are treated as true equals (although the male version is first on the character select screen). Design-wise I think she looks good, but I'm not really a fan of her shorts. Not that they're problematic, but they don't look as good as the pants and I don't see why she couldn't be wearing the same pants. Even some capri type leggings would be better.

Mega Man X:

dcge7g0-0f13e5c3-8f7a-427d-94bd-bf1c38707cf9.jpg
latest
d12a2a0e0c00c4541d886cc1bce30d61.jpg


Mega Man X is the worst of the bunch, as most of its female characters frankly are just not good.

Iris: Helpless damsel in distress. No personality other than "help me i'm just a girl". Some of that is due to the awful voice acting, maybe with a different actor she wouldn't come of that way so strongly. Her design is not too bad, although the robot dress makes no sense to me at all. I have never seen a robot dress work well (open challenge!).
Nana: Just another support type female character. No personality to speak of other than being shy. I do actually like her design though! I get that some may not like the jumpsuit, and there's no real reason for a robots to have a bosom, but I actually think she looks sporty in a nice and appropriate way.
Alia: Speaking of bosoms. Alia is yet another woman who is relegated to the generic support role. But she has... boobs that looks pretty human? What? No other character has fleshy looking bits like that. It's just her boobs. Wtf?

And speaking of weirdly flesh-like boobs, from Mega Man X8 we have Layer.

latest


No comment needed.

Lastly from Mega Man X Command Mission there are two playable female characters.

db4smwz-c28f2ce7-88eb-4107-83ed-ee390e94a5cb.png
latest


Cinnamon: Another generic healer type. About as bland as you can get. Not sure why her thighs are flesh colored, other than that (and anoth pointless robot dress) her design is alright, just a bit too bland. As you can already guess, she has a "shy and cute" personality. Yawn.
Marino: Marino has robot boobs and a skin-tight leotard, but you know what? I actually quite like her design. Unlike the designs above, Marino actually displays some agency and power through her design. Despite being sexualized, she still looks like a badass, and in the context of most of the designs I posted before hers, that's actually pretty refreshing.


I'll end there since I've been going for a while, and that basically covers all the female character archtypes in Mega Man games. It should of course be pointed out that women robots are SEVERELY outnumbered by male robots. In the Classic series there are only 2 female robot masters out of about 80. It's a little fuzzy since you can argue that many of the robots are not necessarily "men"... but most of them I would say are signaling male. So even though I can give credit to some of the designs in the series (which a few being awesome standouts), there are still some major problems with it overall.
I forget about these designs often some are good other bad, i thought ailes was great until someone pointed out that black body stocking is actually their skin so it really changed the ZX form and the advent design, Aile basically walks around in an open vest with no shirt on


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it kind puts her design in a new light and the zero series isn't really that great with female representations

I think there are only 2 female arcadia soldiers in the entire series

fairy leviathan and a robot moth in zero 4, and the female humans are always at somepoint a damsel in distress
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,307
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
But yeah even when there's skimpy outfits (there's really very few examples, it's just barbarian or desert clothing) they're gender-equal. It's also why I was mildly annoyed at the Demon's Souls remake. Much as I love it, they gave boob cups to some armour sets on the Body Type A (which is clearly coded as female), such as the Black Leather set and the Chain Mail set. The original didn't have those, so... WTF, Bluepoint? Kind of lame.

At least the Fluted Armour still looks good, though.

Demons-Souls_20201115013800ebc3a19a61e4564e.png
Yeah, I'm really disappointed Bluepoint added boob armor to the remake. Gives me more reason to be weary of an original game made by them.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,196
Surprised no one posted the some designs for the alternate versions and costumes of some female characters from Megaman X Dive

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__iris_rockman_and_2_more_drawn_by_mizuno_keisuke__sample-c275d7694c19d3de175fd699c0d5d15b.jpg


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The thing that puzzles me is how it's supposed to work? Since one would expect their normal "clothes" to be part of them since you know they are androids
 
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AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
Surprised no one posted the designs for the alternate versions and costumes of some of the female character from Megaman X Dive

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__iris_rockman_and_2_more_drawn_by_mizuno_keisuke__sample-c275d7694c19d3de175fd699c0d5d15b.jpg


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The thing that puzzles me is how it's supposed to work? Since one would expect their normal "clothes" to be part of them since you know they are androids
it's a gatcha game in a virtual world that is how they justify it, but atleast with marino there is precedent for her

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this is her super form yes that is how it looks in game

even then it isn't that consistent this is what they did to zero for white day

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and with zx they don't have to explain anything by that time reploids are so indistinguishable from humans that the only way to tell the difference the the triangle on characters foreheads


atleast leviathan is better but that is only compared to how she originally looks like

latest

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Aug 26, 2018
3,731
日本
Surprised no one posted the some designs for the alternate versions and costumes of some female characters from Megaman X Dive

1000
__iris_rockman_and_2_more_drawn_by_mizuno_keisuke__sample-c275d7694c19d3de175fd699c0d5d15b.jpg


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The thing that puzzles me is how it's supposed to work? Since one would expect their normal "clothes" to be part of them since you know they are androids
They can detach the head and put it on a different body, I guess. lol
 

Arilian

Member
Oct 29, 2020
2,348
I believe that fitting armour would fall under practicality, though.
I don't know if the link was already posted on those topics (my apologies if it was), but a couple of years ago, Tor.com had a blog post about "boob plate" armour, stating that, those kind of armours would be more dangerous to those who wore them:
Let's begin by stating the simple purpose of plate armor—to deflect blows from weaponry. Assuming that you are avoiding the blow of a sword, your armor should be designed so that the blade glances off your body, away from your chest. If your armor is breast-shaped, you are in fact increasing the likelihood that a blade blow will slide inward, toward the center of your chest, the very place you are trying to keep safe.

But that's not all! Let's say you even fall onto your boob-conscious armor. The divet separating each breast will dig into your chest, doing you injury. It might even break your breastbone. With a strong enough blow to the chest, it could fracture your sternum entirely, destroying your heart and lungs, instantly killing you. It is literally a death trap—you are wearing armor that acts as a perpetual spear directed at some of your most vulnerable body parts. It's just not smart.

It's Time to Retire "Boob Plate" Armor. Because It Would Kill You. - Reactor

Never mind the chainmail bikinis—what about those awkward breast plates in armor that we see frequently in fantasy artwork and at the Ren Faire? Whenever women complain about this convention, they are usually shot down for trying to erase women’s true bodies, for insisting that women make...

On the subject of women wearing plate armour, I like this picture a lot:

 

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
I don't know if the link was already posted on those topics (my apologies if it was), but a couple of years ago, Tor.com had a blog post about "boob plate" armour, stating that, those kind of armours would be more dangerous to those who wore them:

It's Time to Retire "Boob Plate" Armor. Because It Would Kill You. - Reactor

Never mind the chainmail bikinis—what about those awkward breast plates in armor that we see frequently in fantasy artwork and at the Ren Faire? Whenever women complain about this convention, they are usually shot down for trying to erase women’s true bodies, for insisting that women make...

On the subject of women wearing plate armour, I like this picture a lot:

I have seen arguments like that but I have also seen arguments that it could go the other way and that it could have provided more protection because the area where that person is talking about would have far more metal to protect it because of how it is curved and if anything was going to cave that in it would cave in normal plate. At this point I only have issue with form fitting boob armor because they use it as a sexualized method not impracticality issue because at this point I don't know if it would be or wouldn't be.

Now I have absolutely no issue with the mandalorian armor because it does Serv the same purpose as plate with the curvature, and the reason why most plates have beer guts, it's still going to be deflected off the same way because there is nothing curving inward, and it serves the same practicality as beer guts plates. Besides I have seen picture of practical modern body armor that does indeed look like the mandalorian armor as vests and the like
 

a Question

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
I don't know if the link was already posted on those topics (my apologies if it was), but a couple of years ago, Tor.com had a blog post about "boob plate" armour, stating that, those kind of armours would be more dangerous to those who wore them:

It's Time to Retire "Boob Plate" Armor. Because It Would Kill You. - Reactor

Never mind the chainmail bikinis—what about those awkward breast plates in armor that we see frequently in fantasy artwork and at the Ren Faire? Whenever women complain about this convention, they are usually shot down for trying to erase women’s true bodies, for insisting that women make...

On the subject of women wearing plate armour, I like this picture a lot:

Its kinda weird because with same concept same danger if not more dangerous can be applied to most male armor since most of them had a funnel on the waist area yet that design still was used widely.



Some thoughts on mandalorian armor

 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Its kinda weird because with same concept same danger if not more dangerous can be applied to most male armor since most of them had a funnel on the waist area yet that design still was used widely.



Some thoughts on mandalorian armor


Interesting point. I think the difference is that the waist is a point of articulation. It's more important that you can turn, have some base level of agility given by the armour being as close as possible, and that the upper pieces overlap any faulds/plates beneath so that attacks can also deflect downwards and not catch on the pieces at the top of your legs, than any weakness a funnelling of the waist guiding blades there gives. As seen in the pic, you've also got layered armour underneath, belts, scabbards etc, plus your flanks are protected by your arms, and then your weapon/shield, and then by your allies either side of you. As opposed to a huge boobplate that is both purely aesthetic and offering a weak point for no reason in the centre of your biggest target area.

Just to respond to the video in general rather than your comparison point on the waist, sure, in a fantasy world where women make up half or even a majority of plate-armoured warriors, you might see more consideration for the differences in the female form. But I can't imagine it would end up being that same female form given by game designers that seems to conveniently and solely revolve around outlining massive chests, rather than armour evolving over time to reflect whatever fashion and practical consideration such wealthy and powerful female knights in a world where that was completely the norm might actually want. I have no idea what that would be, but male lords occasionally having a fashion trend of going 'and give my outfit a massive cock for virility means power!' (As mentioned in his videos) doesn't necessarily mean wealthy and powerful female warriors would want boobplates designed the way a) male game designers do it or b) male wealthy medieval warriors thought about presenting their own masculinity or c) to the same extent we see it in fantasy games.
 
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a Question

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Oct 28, 2017
1,218
Interesting point. I think the difference is that the waist is a point of articulation. It's more important that you can turn, have some base level of agility given by the armour being as close as possible, and that the upper pieces overlap any faulds/plates beneath so that attacks can also deflect downwards and not catch on the pieces at the top of your legs, than any weakness a funnelling of the waist guiding blades there gives. As seen in the pic, you've also got layered armour underneath, belts, scabbards etc, plus your flanks are protected by your arms, and then your weapon/shield, and then by your allies either side of you. As opposed to a huge boobplate that is both purely aesthetic and offering a weak point for no reason in the centre of your biggest target area.

Just to respond to the video in general rather than your comparison point on the waist, sure, in a fantasy world where women make up half or even a majority of plate-armoured warriors, you might see more consideration for the differences in the female form. But I can't imagine it would end up being that same female form given by game designers that seems to conveniently and solely revolve around outlining massive chests, rather than armour evolving over time to reflect whatever fashion and practical consideration such wealthy and powerful female knights in a world where that was completely the norm might actually want. I have no idea what that would be, but male lords occasionally having a fashion trend of going 'and give my outfit a massive cock for virility means power!' (As mentioned in his videos) doesn't necessarily mean wealthy and powerful female warriors would want boobplates designed the way a) male game designers do it or b) male wealthy medieval warriors thought about presenting their own masculinity or c) to the same extent we see it in fantasy games.
Well ofcourse we dont know what female armor would be since the concept of masculinity and femininity changes. Back then the masculine features were the waist while now its about shoulders and feminine feature were women with some weight. And ofcourse its also depends on region.

As for what game designer intend is a bit tricky. Marketing is a huge influence over some choices, we can see that with male protagonist being young boys, Yakuza Dev Nagoshi fought tooth and nail with Marketing division over Kiryu age being over 40. Plus other factors. Im not going to defend some designs, ofcourse there are some very questionable ones but there are some really cool designs for characters who more "own" it then being owned by it (for me) like Bayonetta and Darli Dagger.

Also is it weird that I can distinguish anime designs between Japanese vs Korean and Chinese? I dont mean like styles but even with Japanese outlandish ones for MMO or Mobile somehow I still can see that Korean or Chinese ones are I guess soulless. Its hard to explain but it feels like Korea and China do more doll like features in most uncomfortable sense.

About Nier designs, I hear one of the explanation on YoRha Androids designs is because their obsession over humanity, like what humanity was mostly obsessed about? Sexuality therefore Androids took sexualized designs to appease humanity or be close to it. Maybe a bit of stretch but personally I take it.
 

Redcrayon

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About Nier designs, I hear one of the explanation on YoRha Androids designs is because their obsession over humanity, like what humanity was mostly obsessed about? Sexuality therefore Androids took sexualized designs to appease humanity or be close to it. Maybe a bit of stretch but personally I take it.
I mean, I think the directors preferences for what tropes and fetishes the protagonist should lean into probably took the lead there, it's not like the Yorha got a choice.
 
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grand

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Oct 25, 2017
24,979
About Nier designs, I hear one of the explanation on YoRha Androids designs is because their obsession over humanity, like what humanity was mostly obsessed about? Sexuality therefore Androids took sexualized designs to appease humanity or be close to it. Maybe a bit of stretch but personally I take it.
"But the biggest reason is that I just really like girls." - Yoko Taro



 

Foot

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Mar 10, 2019
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Haha, I do NOT want to hear about anything related to female character design from a man making THAT face
 
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Persephone

Persephone

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when you find yourself trying to justify Nier Automata's designs just remember: pussy. heat. sinks.
 

kyorii

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it's a gatcha game in a virtual world that is how they justify it, but atleast with marino there is precedent for her

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this is her super form yes that is how it looks in game

even then it isn't that consistent this is what they did to zero for white day

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and with zx they don't have to explain anything by that time reploids are so indistinguishable from humans that the only way to tell the difference the the triangle on characters foreheads


atleast leviathan is better but that is only compared to how she originally looks like

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Um all the guardians in Megaman Zero have a similar outfit outside of the heels and faces.

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Conditional-Pancakes

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Well ofcourse we dont know what female armor would be since the concept of masculinity and femininity changes. Back then the masculine features were the waist while now its about shoulders and feminine feature were women with some weight. And ofcourse its also depends on region.

As for what game designer intend is a bit tricky. Marketing is a huge influence over some choices, we can see that with male protagonist being young boys, Yakuza Dev Nagoshi fought tooth and nail with Marketing division over Kiryu age being over 40. Plus other factors. Im not going to defend some designs, ofcourse there are some very questionable ones but there are some really cool designs for characters who more "own" it then being owned by it (for me) like Bayonetta and Darli Dagger.

Also is it weird that I can distinguish anime designs between Japanese vs Korean and Chinese? I dont mean like styles but even with Japanese outlandish ones for MMO or Mobile somehow I still can see that Korean or Chinese ones are I guess soulless. Its hard to explain but it feels like Korea and China do more doll like features in most uncomfortable sense.

This armor discussion is so silly to me. You do realize that the only reason an armor has boobs on the front in a fantasy setting is to highlight the fact that the wearer has boobs, right? That's the only reason, not matter how so many people try to rationalize the trope. And you mentioned masculinity and femininity, but these concepts go well beyond physical features. But the 'marketing' – like you say – for a lot of video games are still choosing to mainly deal with "femininity" with clothing and designs that highlight boobs or sometimes other physical features specifically to arouse their young male audience. I fully agree with the other posters above that mentioned the same. I'm not sure you realize how insulting speaking about femininity this way can sometimes become. I'm sure you already heard some people saying the like of: "How could we know she's a girl if we don't see her boobs?"

I'm also not convinced by the examples you gave. What does the fact of "owning it" have to do with anything? Yeah, they gave some characters a different attitude than the usual. Great. But these designs are still aimed at horny young boys.

About Nier designs, I hear one of the explanation on YoRha Androids designs is because their obsession over humanity, like what humanity was mostly obsessed about? Sexuality therefore Androids took sexualized designs to appease humanity or be close to it. Maybe a bit of stretch but personally I take it.

-_-

In a medium where A LOT of character designs are specifically made to sexualize and objectify women, that's an awfully convenient justification, don't you think? Context matters. Also, just look at the choices they made to portray this presumed "obsession with sexuality" theme in the game...
 

AnimaRize

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Nov 7, 2020
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Um all the guardians in Megaman Zero have a similar outfit outside of the heels and faces.

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Yes they do and can see why it might be okay since the reploids that are supposed to look like zero and x all have a similar design basically copy x and X's 4 kids, it's still not the best design for a female character but it's passable because of the other things and her Christmas design is still in my opinion better comparably
 

RecLib

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Oct 27, 2017
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About Nier designs, I hear one of the explanation on YoRha Androids designs is because their obsession over humanity, like what humanity was mostly obsessed about? Sexuality therefore Androids took sexualized designs to appease humanity or be close to it. Maybe a bit of stretch but personally I take it.

At its core, I think this argument is basically the " "wHaT iF sHe ChOsE tO wEaR iT????????" " entry from the op.
Yeah you can think up narrative reasons to make your women naked in your video game, but at the end of the day a game designer is still choosing to make a woman naked and then maybe coming up with some narrative reasons for it. 2b and the other androids are not actual people making an actual choice. Not a single thing about Nier Automata would be lessened or ruined by putting clothing on A2 and 2b, there's no narrative weight lost behind any scene or plot point.

Neir, incidentally, does have a very good scene regarding robots and an obsession with humans and sexuality. And that scene has absolutely nothing sexy about it.

 
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Catshade

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Oct 26, 2017
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If YoRha is truly obsessed with human sexuality, you'd think 9S would be designed as a beefcake with unbuttoned shirt and big hands like in bara comics. Or there would be a variety of sexualized designs to acknowledge the broad spectrum of human sexuality. But no, their obsession with human sexuality coincidentally fits at whatever attracts mostly cishet men.
 

Deleted member 34725

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I have to admit I'm one of the few people who played through the entirety of Nier Automata and it never super clicked with me. Just thought it was ok but it never blew me away.

That being said, I was sure that at some point the game would try and explain away why all of the fem androids are wearing lingerie and was surprised that it never touched on it. I was actually surprised at the level of fan service when 2b loses her skirt near the end.
 

Deleted member 68874

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Nier Automata is a bad game with embarrassing character designs.

I wonder if the people who talk about the lore to justify the character designs ever stopped to think if the character design was created before the lore.
 

AnimaRize

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Nov 7, 2020
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Nier Automata is a bad game with embarrassing character designs.

I wonder if the people who talk about the lore to justify the character designs ever stopped to think if the character design was created before the lore.
i think those people are truly out of touch with the creator of it, Yoko taro may have put in the lore that justify's it in universe but he admitted to why they actually look like that because he likes women and sexy women, there is no big philosophy to the designs outside of the blindfolds other than that.

though i disagree that nier is a bad game and thats either game
 

jman1954goat

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Just watched a let's play if heavy rain. Man every decision related to Madison is sexist and awful
 

PlanetSmasher

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I have to admit I'm one of the few people who played through the entirety of Nier Automata and it never super clicked with me. Just thought it was ok but it never blew me away.

That being said, I was sure that at some point the game would try and explain away why all of the fem androids are wearing lingerie and was surprised that it never touched on it. I was actually surprised at the level of fan service when 2b loses her skirt near the end.

It still makes no sense to me that A2 runs around for the entire game in ruined, shredded clothes when there is literally an entire world of spare clothing lying around around she could steal to cover up with. It's not like the humans need it.

The shredded stockings in particular make me really uncomfortable.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

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Oct 25, 2017
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Nier Automata is a bad game with embarrassing character designs.

I wonder if the people who talk about the lore to justify the character designs ever stopped to think if the character design was created before the lore.

Was there lore that justified it? iirc Yoko Taro just admitted he wanted them to fit his personal idea of attractive, at least in interviews.
It has aspects that can be scrutinized in that sense, but that doesn't negate the mostly exceptional game design.

Square rpgs seem to have this problem in general. Playing through FFXIV and there's some serious wtf happening there.
 
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RecLib

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Oct 27, 2017
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Neir automata is a pretty good action game with, I think, an interesting and enjoyable story and one of the best video game soundtracks of all time. And embarrassing character designs.
 

Mr_Antimatter

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Oct 28, 2017
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If I ever make an rpg, I'm going to just have a massive in game conspiracy of the tailors guild who makes all the outfits in the game.

the 'hot girlI' character will endlessly complain that she love to dress modestly but literally everything in her size is 'sexy'. Que a quest to figure out why, defeat the guild masterminds and eventually restore modest clothing options to the world.

on the subject of nier yeah, as now iconic as the designs are they really don't make any sense given what yorha does.