Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."

Rhaknar · Sep 21, 2020

Morrigan said:
It was about Cammy and they were not joking

who is "they"?

Persephone said:
if you claim to be "deconstructing" a harmful trope but u don't actually include the criticism of said trope...........................you're actually just playing the harmful trope straight

which once again leads me back to Kill La Kill, as I went in with the premise the lewdness was parody, but when the "parody" is as bad as what you are supposedly parodying, is it still parody? I guess there is a joke here and there about it (I remember the MC saying her battle armor was lewd, and Mako (who was by far the best character) having some sort of joke about big boobs, but still.. I ended up droping it halfway, not necessarily because of the lewdness (I'm still very much a "I'd rather it wasnt there but it wont keep me from engaging" person, unfortunately some would say?), I just didnt care for it and the fanservice certainly didnt help.

crienne · Sep 21, 2020

Someone way more talented (or with more free time) than me needs to edit the gang members into every comic on the "Hark a Vagrant" Strong Female Characters page.

ClickyCal' · Sep 21, 2020

Rhaknar said:
who is "they"?

Someone posting in that Cammy thread from a month ago. Tons of bans and awful posts. That was the most infamous one.

misho8723 · Sep 21, 2020

KujoJosuke said:
Are they in any positions of power/management/whatever?

Because CDPR has proven that the people in charge are generally clueless. From the weird twitter shit to saying the CP2077 is not "political", to a number of other issues

I mean, I don't know the actual structure of the company, but they have women on positions as Senior Project Manager, Quest Designer, Writer, Senior Writer, Vice HR Director, Senior Quest Designer, Video Game Producer / Project Manager, Senior Level Designer, VFX Artist, Senior Concept Artist, Character Artist, Team Manager, Director of Global Production and Operations, Producer, Project Manager, Specialist Animator, 3D Junior Artist, 2D Artist, Junior Gameplay Designer, Gameplay Animator, Software Specialist, Senior Motion Designer, Q&A, Narrative QA Coordinator, etc..

RedHoodedOwl · Sep 21, 2020

Jaded Photographer said:
Does the city this game takes place in have a temperature regulated ecosystem or something? They look fucking cold.

Pants are prohibited in the future.

Rhaknar · Sep 21, 2020

yuoke said:
Someone posting in that Cammy thread from a month ago. Tons of bans and awful posts. That was the most infamous one.

lol >_<

misho8723 · Sep 21, 2020

RedHoodedOwl said:
Pants are prohibited in the future.

Yeah, obviously no female character in CP2077 wears pants because some prostitutes - shock!- don't wear them when working

Obviously
Man, you can criticize how much you want, but criticize please those things that are true

Rae · Sep 21, 2020

https://twitter.com/0jenzee0/status/1105628043274379264

I'm having fun w/Hades and I like all the female character designs except for one.

ConVito · Sep 21, 2020

misho8723 said:
Oh come on.. so now you're criticizing that members of a gang of prostitutes look like prostitutes or something?

Moxes : Formed in 2076 after the death of Elizabeth "Lizzie" Borden, a strip club owner & ex-prostitute who treated her workers fairly and defended them from violent clients, The Moxes refer to themselves as "those who protect working girls and guys" from violence and abuse.
There are atleast 9 gangs in the game and one of them are the Moxes - they are relatively small, non-territorial, and consist of of mostly sexworkers, anarchists, punks, and sexual minorities. Formed in 2067 in the interest of mutual self-defense purposes, their name comes from the old slang term "moxie," denoting their determination to stand up against their oppressors. Some members, especially those who focus on combat, have heavily modified bodies that sometimes evoke a "plastic doll" style, but may also be disguised with Realskinn - the most expensive option of covering "skin", a flexible plastic that looks very much like skin with follicles, hairs, small scars and imperfections, and has a 75% chance of passing as a "meat" limb to all but the closest inspection.

I mean, there are going to be a ton of female characters in the game and that there is a gang of prostitutes that defends other sexworkers from abuse, I just don't see a problem atleast with this or in this case

This has some mad "it's ok because she breathes through her skin" energy.

misho8723 said:
Yeah, obviously no female character in CP2077 wears pants because some prostitutes - shock!- don't wear them when working

Obviously
Man, you can criticize how much you want, but criticize please those things that are true

Funny how people will go through this much effort to debate a throwaway joke while completely ignoring the actual issues. It's fascinating to see this much work put into not having to think.

Persephone · Sep 21, 2020

misho8723 said:
Yeah, obviously no female character in CP2077 wears pants because some prostitutes - shock!- don't wear them when working

Obviously
Man, you can criticize how much you want, but criticize please those things that are true

i'm sorry us saying mean things abt ur video game hurt your feefees :((

Kyuuji · Sep 21, 2020

ConVito said:
Funny how people will go through this much effort to debate a throwaway joke while completely ignoring the actual issues. It's fascinating to see this much work put into not having to think.

Timu · Sep 21, 2020

Kyuuji said:
Is there like some bat symbol that goes out whenever anyone criticises Cyberpunk or something.

It seems that way, yeah.

Dice · Sep 21, 2020

misho8723 said:
Yeah, obviously no female character in CP2077 wears pants because some prostitutes - shock!- don't wear them when working

Obviously
Man, you can criticize how much you want, but criticize please those things that are true

lol dude, you came in to a topic about sexualized women and basically "um actually!" 'd the role of scantily clad warrior prostitutes.

I'd bet a bajillion dollars the reason they're wearing nearly nothing is 1) because that's hot and 2) because they're hot ...then a very distant 3) job = prostitutes = less clothes??

But I guess we shouldn't get too upset; the gaming industry definitely doesn't have enough bikini-clad women. 🙄 😝

I love the representation in the game so far; but I'm also hoping it isn't played as a joke for a "shitty, cool, and edgy cyberpunk world" might.

PaperSparrow · Sep 21, 2020

It's not enough that there are dozens of Cyberpunk hype threads full of posters who deliberately ignore the transphobia issue, fanboys need to come in here and "well, actually" women who've been through this song and dance so much it's the longest running musical on Broadway.

Morrigan · Sep 21, 2020

misho8723 said:
Man, you can criticize how much you want, but criticize please those things that are true

OK dude, that's enough. You're getting way too defensive over this game. The "no pants" thing was very clearly a throwaway joke, and going "well actually...! <image spam>" in response to that joke is... basically a massive failure to read the room.

You're welcome to discuss the game in good faith, but please be respectful of the fact that this thread is primarily a space for women to vent about things that annoy them (and this may include cracking jokes at your favourite IP's expense), and I'm sure you don't want to be contributing to that.

Icky Thump · Sep 21, 2020

RecLib said:
Why women criticise pocketless clothing designs ot1: I have no pockets and I must hold stuff.

Subbed.

AliceAbstract · Sep 21, 2020

I was just about to post about how only half of those women are actually wearing pants, as opposed to all but one of the men. (And they're more clothed than the women in all but one case...)

RedSwirl said:
These are the screenshots for all of the gangs revealed so far.

Coincidental or not, putting the "no women anywhere to be seen shirtless body horror" gang next to the "all scantily clad women despite the mention of male sex workers" gang side by side is quite the stark image.

...Okay, WOW at the "bound feet" look on the Tyger Claws gal. And of course it's the Asian gang. Cripes, that is a bad take...

"It's only because society has regressed! But wait, it's also okay! She's empowered because she has a sword and is a badass ninja!"

Princess Bubblegum · Sep 21, 2020

Timu said:
What a gang!

I bet they are some strong female characters.

Nimby · Sep 21, 2020

I feel very strongly about The Last of Us Pt II. It's confusing because I don't really know what I feel so "strongly" about. Still got a decent amount of game left I think.

Amazing game.

Azem · Sep 21, 2020

Bit_Reactor said:
And I don't know a girl that doesn't wear some variety of this set right now or the 2B sets that plays FFXIV a lot.

Good for them.

Bit_Reactor said:
That's not to use my anecdotal evidence as anything against your perspective, but the audience is there for the steampunk outfit.

Like, I don't want to be combative, but your post has really just gotten me, so I will be. Anyway, that thing you say you're not doing comes off as what you're doing.

Bit_Reactor said:
The Neo-Ishgardian set is one of the few I wouldn't use as reference because it's clearly going for the specific trope of the corset and frilly dress that's in the art style it's replicating.

Maybe a bad example on my part, just the first thing that came to mind to illustrate them being very resistant to giving us pants.

Bit_Reactor said:
FFXIV has made strides towards that like Guys being able to wear dresses and bunny outfits and the like,

Great for M characters, I guess. F characters have gotten slightly more than fuck all.

Bit_Reactor said:
but I'd still say the unfortunate truth is I've got a ton of friends who play the game who are female and all wear either 2B or NeoIshgard when not modding their outfits.

Good for them. You're doing that thing you say you're not doing again.

Bit_Reactor said:
Can't fight things when being celebrated/enthusiastically supported by the fanbase usually.

Yes, I can.

Jaded Photographer · Sep 21, 2020

SapphiCine said:
I bet they are some strong female characters.

This looks like a Rob Liefeld parody.

Fat4all · Sep 21, 2020

Jaded Photographer said:
This looks like a Rob Liefeld parody.

the feet are too good to be a liefeld parody

Famassu · Sep 22, 2020

misho8723 said:
Please, be specific why do you think the writing is terrible

You know that they aren't soldiers, right? They are still working sex workers who go help someone from their field of work to help when someone is abusing them or threating with violence

The game is going to represent various types of characters and societes.. why is there a problem that part of the society are also prostitutes?

Because they are still working sex workers... simple answer, I don't know what are you here looking for.. and they have the most expensive cyberskin already installed on them - the reason why they look so, shiny

You haven't read what I wrote in my previous comment, right? They have Realskinn - the most expensive option when you want to cover your real skin: a flexible plastic that looks very much like skin with follicles, hairs, small scars and imperfections, and has a 75% chance of passing as a "meat" limb to all but the closest inspection. It can took a huge amount of hits to get it atleast a little bit to damage

How to gang get together I wrote already in my previous comment : Formed in 2076 after the death of Elizabeth "Lizzie" Borden, a strip club owner & ex-prostitute who treated her workers fairly and defended them from violent clients, The Moxes refer to themselves as "those who protect working girls and guys" from violence and abuse

So prostitutes can never wear anything but what their prostitute profession entails? Like, that's just their look 100% of the time?

Maybe take a look at this video:

Minisode - The Thermian Argument

Twitter: http://twitter.com/FoldableHumanAsk.fm: http://ask.fm/FoldableHumanWritten and Performed by Dan Olson

www.youtube.com

"No, you don't understand, this completely fictional world that I have 100% control over has this convenient lore explanation as to why I'm sexualizing & objectifying women" ain't the good argument you think it is. Like, you're really not hearing how ludicrous your defense of this shitty ass game is? All you're describing is just lame "lore" explanations to explain why men wanted to show booteh & boobehz in a project they helmed & created. If your argument was valid, all the sexist, misogynistic, objectifying explanations that this thread is criticizing would be valid. In reality, it's just "men want to see titties, isn't that edgy & sexy & fap-worthy in this Mature™ & Bawdazzzz vidya game".

Currently, you're this guy:

anime fans

My Twitter: https://twitter.com/prozdkpMy Let's Play channel, Press Buttons n Talk:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSHsNH4FZXFeSQMJ56AdrBAMy Merch/T-Shirt S...

www.youtube.com

Don't be one of these guys.

RecLib · Sep 22, 2020

So I was looking up the playstation 5 on amazon, though obviously they are sold out on preorders. But anyway, uh...

One of these things is not like the other.

I expect shit like that to show up when I'm searching for an anime game or something but... just the regular standard Playstation 5? Caught me of guard.

Metalsnakezero · Sep 22, 2020

RecLib said:
So I was looking up the playstation 5 on amazon, though obviously they are sold out on preorders. But anyway, uh...

One of these things is not like the other.

I expect shit like that to show up when I'm searching for an anime game or something but... just the regular standard Playstation 5? Caught me of guard.

Algorithms are a problem.

Mimosa · Sep 22, 2020

I don't know, I'm just...really not feeling Cyberpunk 2077. The entire energy around the game feels very early 2000's boyz klub to me. It's cool that there seems to be quite a lot of diversity (from what I see idk) in terms of body types and ethnicities and what have you, but all of it is wrapped up in a way that still feels stereotypical - like everything can still fit very comfortably in tired-ass tropes that aren't being subverted at all.

Gang of prostitutes? First off........................

Second, if they're really going that route then why not change things up just a little? For example: why they all gotta be females? Throw some other genders in there. Why're they dressed all skimpy and edgy? What if they wore really comfortably frumpy stuff?

Persephone · Sep 22, 2020

from the dumpster fire cyberpunk thread

Flipyap said:
It's hard to tell in the screenshot, but the Watson Whore ad is also transphobic - it features another femme character with cartoonishly exaggerated genitals. Someone at CDPR must find this shit hilarious.

fuck cdpr

hachikoma · Sep 22, 2020

Persephone said:
from the dumpster fire cyberpunk thread

fuck cdpr

okay I'm trans and honestly more offended by the blatant whorephobia in that one, which is an astounding feat on their part

RecLib · Sep 22, 2020

Cyberpunk looks like it might be really fun as a game, empty of all plot setting or characterization the gameplay looks cool. So the super hardcore apologism for the game is only going to ramp up and get worse when people start playing it unfortunately. I expect the OT for the game to be a garbage fire whenever anyone comes in even mildly critical.

Rotobit · Sep 22, 2020

Persephone said:
from the dumpster fire cyberpunk thread

fuck cdpr

On top of all that. the extremely 2010's/2020's typography and formatting of that image makes the "it's how it was in the original '80s/'90s RPG" arguments look even sillier. The ad looks like it's from Netflix or HBO.

They're picking and choosing what to update, and the satire sure isn't one of their picks.

SchrodingerC · Sep 22, 2020

Mimosa said:
I don't know, I'm just...really not feeling Cyberpunk 2077. The entire energy around the game feels very early 2000's boyz klub to me. It's cool that there seems to be quite a lot of diversity (from what I see idk) in terms of body types and ethnicities and what have you, but all of it is wrapped up in a way that still feels stereotypical - like everything can still fit very comfortably in tired-ass tropes that aren't being subverted at all.

Gang of prostitutes? First off........................

Second, if they're really going that route then why not change things up just a little? For example: why they all gotta be females? Throw some other genders in there. Why're they dressed all skimpy and edgy? What if they wore really comfortably frumpy stuff?

You aren't wrong about the early aughts vibes.

Many of the in-game ads seemingly targeting for heteronormative male gaze-y nonsense is such lazy 'cyberpunk' world building. Cyberpunk as a concept is much more than neon soaked atmosphere and cyborg sex workers, but yet that repeatedly becomes the shallow aesthetics trap. I actually hope the game can go beyond the typical old school roots, but currently the confidence is low.

People can miss me with the 'sex sells' excuse.

Greywaren · Sep 22, 2020

Every time I think Cyberpunk might be an interesting game to get at some point, I'm reminded (mostly by this thread) of the amount of garbage we've already seen it has... which makes me very worried about the amount of garbage we haven't seen. And this will be another game you can't criticize without a bunch of angry dudes jumping at your throat... Really not looking forward to the discussions after the game is out, that's for sure. It's not gonna be pretty.

PepsimanVsJoe · Sep 22, 2020

I canceled my Cyberpunk preorder almost a year ago, but now I'm wishing that I could cancel it again.

Bit_Reactor · Sep 22, 2020

Shandy said:
Good for them.

Like, I don't want to be combative, but your post has really just gotten me, so I will be. Anyway, that thing you say you're not doing comes off as what you're doing.

Maybe a bad example on my part, just the first thing that came to mind to illustrate them being very resistant to giving us pants.

Great for M characters, I guess. F characters have gotten slightly more than fuck all.

Good for them. You're doing that thing you say you're not doing again.

Yes, I can.

I mean I'm not sure what I'm supposed to reply to here.

I'll add that I misspoke on the fact that F gear can be worn by males and things like the butler/groom outfits can also be worn by women.

But your point was:

Like, I love the shit out of this game, but I'm 90% sure that if you were ask them why they do things like the Neo-Ishgardian gear, why generally they replace pants with skirts or wee shorts, they'd say "Well... Girls want to be cute, right?"

And I provided the answer by supporting evidence from the game and the people who play it of all backgrounds both male and female players who use the gear.

Your opinion and perspective is valid, I'm just saying when you ask yourself "Why they do these things" it's because it is popular and people want it/use it. I'm not saying your opinion of wanting pants is a bad one or even a wrong one, I'm just saying that people buy into and promote said gear by buying into it en masse, which is probably why they continue to do it that way.

EDIT: And to add once again, I feel we should be able to open up both options for all characters, personally. I may have misstepped on the phrasing on things like my last statement that set you on the offensive, but I only provided context when you called out a specific type of gear, that's all I was putting in there.

Timu · Sep 22, 2020

RecLib said:
Cyberpunk looks like it might be really fun as a game, empty of all plot setting or characterization the gameplay looks cool. So the super hardcore apologism for the game is only going to ramp up and get worse when people start playing it unfortunately. I expect the OT for the game to be a garbage fire whenever anyone comes in even mildly critical.

Yep, pretty much this. It looks like a good game for gameplay and such but how they are doing certain things with characters and probably certain parts of the plot makes me want to buy it off cdkeys or something instead of Steam and such.

Tunahead · Sep 22, 2020

I'll probably just replay Shadowrun: Dragonfall instead.

Richter1887 · Sep 22, 2020

Tunahead said:
I'll probably just replay Shadowrun: Dragonfall instead.

Same here.

RecLib · Sep 22, 2020

Dragonfall is a really good game.

Timu · Sep 22, 2020

Tunahead said:
I'll probably just replay Shadowrun: Dragonfall instead.

RecLib said:
Dragonfall is a really good game.

This is the 1st time I'm hearing about this game, I don't know how I missed this one!

Mirage · Sep 22, 2020

SchrodingerC said:
You aren't wrong about the early aughts vibes.

Many of the in-game ads seemingly targeting for heteronormative male gaze-y nonsense is such lazy 'cyberpunk' world building. Cyberpunk as a concept is much more than neon soaked atmosphere and cyborg sex workers, but yet that repeatedly becomes the shallow aesthetics trap. I actually hope the game can go beyond the typical old school roots, but currently the confidence is low.

People can miss me with the 'sex sells' excuse.

The game is really giving the impression it's going to be like this.

RecLib · Sep 22, 2020

Timu said:
This is the 1st time I'm hearing about this game, I don't know how I missed this one!

Three games put out back to back by the developer over a pretty short period of time.

Shadowrun Returns, pretty mediocre, good proof of concept, not really worth going back and playing now.
Shadowrun Dragonfall, Exceptional game, genuinely one of the best crpg's to be made in a long long time.
Shadowrun Hongkong, No where near as good as dragonfall. Notably they completely ruined how hacking integrated into the middle of combat in really interesting and fun ways by turning it into a shitty real time minigame. But the game is still pretty good and worth playing if you still want more after playing through dragonfall.

Timu · Sep 22, 2020

RecLib said:
Three games put out back to back by the developer over a pretty short period of time.

Shadowrun Returns, pretty mediocre, good proof of concept, not really worth going back and playing now.
Shadowrun Dragonfall, Exceptional game, genuinely one of the best crpg's to be made in a long long time.
Shadowrun Hongkong, No where near as good as dragonfall. Notably they completely ruined how hacking integrated into the middle of combat in really interesting and fun ways by turning it into a shitty real time minigame. But the game is still pretty good and worth playing.

Hmm, I heard of Shadowrun Returns but also didn't know about Shadowrun Hongkong. I think I should give Shadowrun Dragonfall a shot.

RecLib · Sep 22, 2020

Timu said:
Hmm, I heard of Shadowrun Returns but also didn't know about Shadowrun Hongkong. I think I should give Shadowrun Dragonfall a shot.

Dragonfall is definitely worth your time.

Persephone · Sep 22, 2020

let's sum up, shall we? (i haven't engaged with much of the marketing material so if i've missed anything please add it)

- objectifying women, including multiple transmisogynistic caricatures of trans women with bulges
- transphobia out the wazoo incl. aforementioned transmisogyny, as well as tying your gender to the pitch of your voice and no nonbinary options plus a slew of transphobic jokes from various affiliated social media accounts
- whorephobia with the moxes and whatever the fuck is going on with that date rape drug
- racist stereotypes with the gang members

and that's setting aside the juvenile writing, "wow cool future!!" and gta: night city vibes

Timu · Sep 22, 2020

RecLib said:
Dragonfall is definitely worth your time.

Nice, hope to get to it one day.

RedSwirl · Sep 22, 2020

As a game Cyberpunk looks like it's going to be a technological marvel. It's just a matter of how CDPR pulls off the setting and the themes therein.

Famassu said:
So prostitutes can never wear anything but what their prostitute profession entails? Like, that's just their look 100% of the time?

Maybe take a look at this video:

Minisode - The Thermian Argument

Twitter: http://twitter.com/FoldableHumanAsk.fm: http://ask.fm/FoldableHumanWritten and Performed by Dan Olson

www.youtube.com

"No, you don't understand, this completely fictional world that I have 100% control over has this convenient lore explanation as to why I'm sexualizing & objectifying women" ain't the good argument you think it is. Like, you're really not hearing how ludicrous your defense of this shitty ass game is? All you're describing is just lame "lore" explanations to explain why men wanted to show booteh & boobehz in a project they helmed & created. If your argument was valid, all the sexist, misogynistic, objectifying explanations that this thread is criticizing would be valid. In reality, it's just "men want to see titties, isn't that edgy & sexy & fap-worthy in this Mature™ & Bawdazzzz vidya game".

Currently, you're this guy:

anime fans

My Twitter: https://twitter.com/prozdkpMy Let's Play channel, Press Buttons n Talk:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSHsNH4FZXFeSQMJ56AdrBAMy Merch/T-Shirt S...

www.youtube.com

Don't be one of these guys.

At first glance you think you'd be able to defend the "it's part of the setting argument" with the fact that Cyberpunk 2077 is based on a tabletop game from the 80's, but CDPR specifically shifted the timeline forward by 50-odd years. They have some measure of control over how to change certain attitudes and styles in that setting. We see them doing that now, it's just a matter of what choices CDPR makes within those bounds.

And let's not pretend CDPR stayed 100% true to Sapkowski's books when doing the Witcher games. One sticking point of a lot of hardcore book fans is what they did with Triss' design and attire, appearing to omit an injury she received in one of the early books.

Persephone · Sep 22, 2020

RedSwirl said:
One sticking point of a lot of hardcore book fans is what they did with Triss' design and attire, appearing to omit an injury she received in one of the early books.

i'm not a hardcore book fan but the fact that they specifically removed the injury that gave her hideous scars on her chest and caused her to swear off ever wearing low necklines.... the clownery

RedSwirl · Sep 22, 2020

I took another look at the last couple Cyberpunk trailers. In the gangs trailer, at the part about the Moxies, you do see one male sex worker, but all that gets you is to the same point as every other open-world game with a brothel (including Witcher 3). Y'know, the ones that always have that one male prostitute dancing somewhere just to meet some kind of quota. Hard to who everybody else in that part of the trailer is though. In one of those trailers I also spotted what might have been a female Malestrom member (that's the guys with all the eye augmentations) but I can't be sure. In any case this isn't what you see in the posters meant to advertise the gangs.

Azem · Sep 22, 2020

Bit_Reactor said:
I mean I'm not sure what I'm supposed to reply to here.

I'll add that I misspoke on the fact that F gear can be worn by males and things like the butler/groom outfits can also be worn by women.

But your point was:

And I provided the answer by supporting evidence from the game and the people who play it of all backgrounds both male and female players who use the gear.

Your opinion and perspective is valid, I'm just saying when you ask yourself "Why they do these things" it's because it is popular and people want it/use it. I'm not saying your opinion of wanting pants is a bad one or even a wrong one, I'm just saying that people buy into and promote said gear by buying into it en masse, which is probably why they continue to do it that way.

EDIT: And to add once again, I feel we should be able to open up both options for all characters, personally. I may have misstepped on the phrasing on things like my last statement that set you on the offensive, but I only provided context when you called out a specific type of gear, that's all I was putting in there.

I get it. I was stressed and should have taken a moment to chill before rolling up my sleeves to come at you.

And like, I know. I know why they do it, when I say "Why must you do this to me", it's resignation, not actual confusion. And I understand that it can be popular, but man oh man, I mean it when I say that I think there's a genuine "Well, this is what girls want?" sexist element. I don't really do anime anymore, but I hang around in enough anime-adjacent spaces to know that "Girls should be cute" is a common line of thought in Japanese media (and culture), so I feel that and it shits me.

As per usual, it's about choice. And it's not like I can't find a cool outfit in Final Fantasy XIV, but every time something like an AF gets the legs torn out of it just because, I roll my eyes.

Bit_Reactor · Sep 22, 2020

Shandy said:
I get it. I was stressed and should have taken a moment to chill before rolling up my sleeves to come at you.

And like, I know. I know why they do it, when I say "Why must you do this to me", it's resignation, not actual confusion. And I understand that it can be popular, but man oh man, I mean it when I say that I think there's a genuine "Well, this is what girls want?" sexist element. I don't really do anime anymore, but I hang around in enough anime-adjacent spaces to know that "Girls should be cute" is a common line of thought in Japanese media (and culture), so I feel that and it shits me.

As per usual, it's about choice. And it's not like I can't find a cool outfit in Final Fantasy XIV, but every time something like an AF gets the legs torn out of it just because, I roll my eyes.

I totally get where you're coming from. I get the perspective and wish it was possibly to have both.

I can also see where my phrasing can come off as dismissive or reductive as well, so I'll work to tweak that when discussing sensitive topics.

Unfortunately I share a lot of "minority" opinions when it comes to media and video games myself, and even though it's not as serious about the issues being presented in this thread, it can feel like screaming into a void sometimes. The issue is the majority rules in most cases and sometimes that can suck.

I also need to understand that in situations like this, the whole purpose of the thread is to vent these frustrations and speak to like minded people, not hear justification/excuses for said things. So apologies there as well.

Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."

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