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Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
The way Ryza's legs are compressed still just makes me think of a strung ham

hqdefault.jpg



One thing that's also not mentioned much with Ryza is that in-game you see her butt looking like this pretty much constantly

atelier-ryza-5-e1562596106224.jpg



It's just baffling, honestly

EDIT: Oh god I made the first post on a new page a picture of ham
 
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Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,322
Canada
The sexualization aside, I'm a fan of seeing more diverse body types. The idea of Ryza seems like a good thing that just went off the rails.

She's really not unless you think big thighs/breasts are somehow underrepresented in Japanese games. She's not even especially chubby; just ""fat"" where people want her to be big. >_>

It's a design choice that fits a sexualized MC agenda more than representing more body types... There's barely any artwork of Ryza that doesn't sexualize her (whether or not deliberately or happenstance from her bizarre ill-fitting outfit that makes parts stand out)

Atelier-Ryza-2-30.jpg


Define: Crotch-chaffing
chara_ryza.png
\



Then you get this crazy artwork where it's literally a giant woman proportion with a tiny head (she's actually toned?)

EfnIMbuUEAEcgQi
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
Character designs like Atelier Ryza aren't a diversity thing, they're just the latest trend in sexualized body parts on women. Thighs have joined the ranks of breasts and butts in being allowed to have fat on them because now nerds think it's sexy when an anime girl is wearing stockings so tight they look like they're cutting off her blood circulation.
Pretty much. If you can see the skin being imprinted like this
latest

then it's not being done for "representation". Actual representation of heavier set women or girls would be in a realistic style and not for fetish.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
Yeah, that's the one... Representation! Diversity!

Seriously though, I think it's very important to learn the difference between positive representation vs. dubious types of representation that can be harmful. Like, for example, representation for the sake of representation, or fetishised representation like the cases being discussed here.
Yea. TLOU1 and 2 and even some other games have actual representation, to have representation. Ellie isn't lesbian for lesbian fetish bait like what certain types of games might do, she is just portrayed realistically as a girl that happens to be lesbian.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
So I just saw Roeas in Last Remnant and her bikini armor design is utterly hilarious to me
Code:
https://lastremnant.fandom.com/wiki/Roeas
 

Godfather

Game on motherfuckers
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,492
She's really not unless you think big thighs/breasts are somehow underrepresented in Japanese games. She's not even especially chubby; just ""fat"" where people want her to be big. >_>

It's a design choice that fits a sexualized MC agenda more than representing more body types... There's barely any artwork of Ryza that doesn't sexualize her (whether or not deliberately or happenstance from her bizarre ill-fitting outfit that makes parts stand out)

Atelier-Ryza-2-30.jpg


Define: Crotch-chaffing
chara_ryza.png
\



Then you get this crazy artwork where it's literally a giant woman proportion with a tiny head (she's actually toned?)

EfnIMbuUEAEcgQi


I forget that she's like 16 as well. You're right, it's not really different in the end. The thigh gap along with thicker thighs does show what their priority really was.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
Heavier set characters(both men and women) feel like a very under repped group that need more. Hoping the next ND ip or even part III has a prominent character. TLOU2 sort of had the opposite with Ellie being fringe anorexic late game.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Los Angeles, CA
It's that time again


I seriously can't eyeroll hard enough. Like, the fuck? I actually really like the character designs and graphics, but this fetishization of "youth" and the mental gymnastics some of these creators take to justify characters acting like children while looking like adults (and often played up sexualization), is really fucking weird and disgusting.

I'm a big fan of JRPGs, but I don't remember the last one I've actually played that didn't make me feel incredibly uncomfortable in one way or the other (either creepily sexualized 3,000 year old dragons that look like 10 year olds, or jiggly boobed amazons wearing next to nothing, or like many of the examples posted in this thread) to the point I stopped playing. It's just super disappointing. I just wanna play a fun JRPG with a good story.

No wonder I replay Chrono Trigger at least once a year. From what I recall, that game doesn't have any shit like that in it.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I seriously can't eyeroll hard enough. Like, the fuck? I actually really like the character designs and graphics, but this fetishization of "youth" and the mental gymnastics some of these creators take to justify characters acting like children while looking like adults (and often played up sexualization), is really fucking weird and disgusting.

I'm a big fan of JRPGs, but I don't remember the last one I've actually played that didn't make me feel incredibly uncomfortable in one way or the other (either creepily sexualized 3,000 year old dragons that look like 10 year olds, or jiggly boobed amazons wearing next to nothing, or like many of the examples posted in this thread) to the point I stopped playing. It's just super disappointing. I just wanna play a fun JRPG with a good story.

No wonder I replay Chrono Trigger at least once a year. From what I recall, that game doesn't have any shit like that in it.
"The younger the brain, the stronger the Power, so OSF members are restrained from growing." How does this even work, even aside from the shitty otaku pandering, it seems like some kind of weird body horror oppression, being happily pasted over in order to hit the tropes.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Los Angeles, CA
"The younger the brain, the stronger the Power, so OSF members are restrained from growing." How does this even work, even aside from the shitty otaku pandering, it seems like some kind of weird body horror oppression, being happily pasted over in order to hit the tropes.

Seriously. Like, what the fuck does that even mean? For something as stupid and asinine as that, I can safely assume that the lore of that world isn't worth exploring on my part, so I can gladly knock the game off of my list (which, admittedly, it was never on my list; i don't actually know what game this is XD )
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Seriously. Like, what the fuck does that even mean? For something as stupid and asinine as that, I can safely assume that the lore of that world isn't worth exploring on my part, so I can gladly knock the game off of my list (which, admittedly, it was never on my list; i don't actually know what game this is XD )
It's up there with 'mech pilots need to be young to 'sync' with each other, and naked to deal with the heat'. Like, they try to rationalise this creepy shit with lore in order to make the audience feel better about why they are constantly fed this questionable tripe, and then you get desensitised otaku going 'but the lore!' when it's both fucking stupid and blatantly obvious why it is that way.

This will never not be relevant
 
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Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
The fetishization of youth (not necessarily in a sexual way) has been a thing in Japanese games/anime for decades. Like most beloved RPGs had a token "mature" character on the party, if they had one at all.

it is pretty silly Scarlet Nexus felt the need to go out of its way to actually explain it though, it's not like most people would have noticed otherwise.

No wonder I replay Chrono Trigger at least once a year. From what I recall, that game doesn't have any shit like that in it.

The thing with older RPGs is that the smaller pixel graphics made it so "fanservice" was trickier to pull off compared to now. I'd argue it was still present (the classic Final Fantasies and SMT games have more than a few enemies that are scantily clad women) just less in-your-face or relegated to supplemental material.

Chrono Trigger specifically has Ayla's design which would probably raise some eyebrows if it were rendered in HD, she still had her kissing buffs, and Kino said those lines about her having "much energy" when they talk about her descendents.

But yeah in many ways Japanese games were more tame compared to their western counterparts, especially in the '90s and '00s when we had things like Leisure Suit Larry, Duke Nukem, and GTA. It's only really in the past decade that things turned around completely and I can only hope more Japanese devs cool it.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Los Angeles, CA
It's up there with 'mech pilots need to be young to 'sync' with each other, and naked to deal with the heat'. Like, they try to rationalise this creepy shit with lore in order to make the audience feel better about why they are constantly fed this questionable tripe, and then you get desensitised otaku going 'but the lore!' when it's both fucking stupid and blatantly obvious why it is that way.

This will never not be relevant


Lol! That video cracks me up every damn time. I enjoy a lot of his skits, in particular the one about skipping cutscenes in games, but yeah, this one will always be relevant XD

The fetishization of youth (not necessarily in a sexual way) has been a thing in Japanese games/anime for decades. Like most beloved RPGs had a token "mature" character on the party, if they had one at all.

it is pretty silly Scarlet Nexus felt the need to go out of its way to actually explain it though, it's not like most people would have noticed otherwise.



The thing with older RPGs is that the smaller pixel graphics made it so "fanservice" was trickier to pull off compared to now. I'd argue it was still present (the classic Final Fantasies and SMT games have more than a few enemies that are scantily clad women) just less in-your-face or relegated to supplemental material.

Chrono Trigger specifically has Ayla's design which would probably raise some eyebrows if it were rendered in HD, she still had her kissing buffs, and Kino said those lines about her having "much energy" when they talk about her descendents.

But yeah in many ways Japanese games were more tame compared to their western counterparts, especially in the '90s and '00s when we had things like Leisure Suit Larry, Duke Nukem, and GTA. It's only really in the past decade that things turned around completely and I can only hope more Japanese devs cool it.

That's also true. Although I think Ayla's design is incredibly tame, and I don't think the problem would be with her character being sexual, or having a kissing buff, considering that the other women in the game are quite distinct, both personality and design wise. Toriyama's character designs would translate very well to modern 3D. The problem isn't that a woman in a video game is sexual, or wearing provocative clothing. I think the problem is when the vast majority of women in games are portrayed that way, written as waifu bait, constantly lusting after the protagonist, and otherwise has no agency at all, existing solely to be gawked at by the assumed straight male player. Scantily clad women is emblematic of an underlying issue with women in games, and is only surface level. There are much deeper issues of misogyny and sexism at play in the writing and portrayals themselves that are the root of this problem. The women in Chrono Trigger don't really have that issue, I think. I admit I haven't played much of the older Final Fantasies, so I can't speak to those (I only played FFVI a little bit when it released back in the day, as I had to borrow it from a friend, since I couldn't afford many games, and didn't have an SNES myself). The one that I've played the most of that I love to death is FFIX and XII, and I think Garnett and Ashe are pretty well done protagonists (although I haven't beaten either game, so I'm not sure how their storylines play out, but they don't seem as overly problematic as some of the examples I've seen in this thread; i could definitely be wrong though).

A 3D remake of Chrono Trigger would only worry me, in the fear that they'd take these excellent character designs, and "update" them. So you'd have Ayla with huge boobs, probably missing her cave dress, so she's only wearing her underwear and no boots, and other such fan service bullshit. I definitely want to hear what women have to say about these characters though, as I'm obviously coming from a straight male perspective of what I remember from these games and characters, and I don't think I've seen any discussion about the representation of women in Chrono Trigger compared to the "3,000 year old dragons" or "She breathes through her skin, so, obviously, she has to be scantily clad!" we get in modern games.

DuUjZoCW4AE0Ohk.jpg

These designs are just so damn good. I admit, I'd love to see an animated film of Chrono Trigger, whether traditionally animated, CG, or maybe an animated series covering the events of the first game. I'm legit surprised we never got one. The cast of characters (not just limited to the main party), are just so damn memorable and charming.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,146
It's that time again


That's one of the biggest reasons why 90% of Japanese games are unberable and unplayable to me.

Oversexualized characters and shitty ass designs to appeal to weebs and otakus.

Thank god for From Software and Capcom (partially), they still have some issues with their fighting games tho.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Lol! That video cracks me up every damn time. I enjoy a lot of his skits, in particular the one about skipping cutscenes in games, but yeah, this one will always be relevant XD



That's also true. Although I think Ayla's design is incredibly tame, and I don't think the problem would be with her character being sexual, or having a kissing buff, considering that the other women in the game are quite distinct, both personality and design wise. Toriyama's character designs would translate very well to modern 3D. The problem isn't that a woman in a video game is sexual, or wearing provocative clothing. I think the problem is when the vast majority of women in games are portrayed that way, written as waifu bait, constantly lusting after the protagonist, and otherwise has no agency at all, existing solely to be gawked at by the assumed straight male player. Scantily clad women is emblematic of an underlying issue with women in games, and is only surface level. There are much deeper issues of misogyny and sexism at play in the writing and portrayals themselves that are the root of this problem. The women in Chrono Trigger don't really have that issue, I think. I admit I haven't played much of the older Final Fantasies, so I can't speak to those. The one that I've played the most of that I love to death is FFIX and XII, and I think Garnett and Ashe are pretty well done protagonists (although I haven't beaten either, so I'm not sure how they're storylines play out, but they don't seem as overly problematic as some of the examples I've seen in this thread; i could definitely be wrong though).

A 3D remake of Chrono Trigger would only worry me, in the fear that they'd take these excellent character designs, and "update" them. So you'd have Ayla with huge boobs, probably missing her cave dress, so she's only wearing her underwear and no boots, and other such fan service bullshit. I definitely want to hear what women have to say about these characters though, as I'm obviously coming from a straight male perspective of what I remember from these games and characters, and I don't think I've seen any discussion about the representation of women in Chrono Trigger compared to the "3,000 year old dragons" or "She breathes through her skin, so, obviously, she has to be scantily clad!" we get in modern games.

DuUjZoCW4AE0Ohk.jpg

These designs are just so damn good. I admit, I'd love to see an animated film of Chrono Trigger, whether traditionally animated, CG, or maybe an animated series covering the events of the first game. I'm legit surprised we never got one. The cast of characters (not just limited to the main party), are just so damn memorable and charming.

Yeah Chrono Trigger is probably the best of the SNES RPGs when it comes to keeping things respectable, the Ayla stuff was a little bit of a stretch and relies a lot on interpretation. Dragon Quest is probably fine too outside of puff-puff.

That said I did look into the FF stuff out of curiosity and on top of sprites like these...

120

62

61


I also discovered this line from Edgar in the JP version of VI when he encounters the 10 year old Relm - "I need to get a hold of myself... or it's going to be a crime". In English he says "Not even a lady yet. Here's hoping you're still around in eight years, kid" which is still terrible but not as horrifying.

So yeah, I do think folks can be a bit too generous to older JRPGs. It's definitely not as prevalent as it is now and there are more outright exceptions but really the boy's club mentality has probably run deep behind the scenes for decades.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
I think its definitely a thing that when the graphics are older and simpler, women characters are just always going to be less sexualized just because the capabilities aren't fully there. When you have the graphical capabilities to make the characters look "better", you also have the capabilities to objectify them that much more.


A good modern example to kind of showcase this is Dominique in curse of the moon 2. Here is what her sprite looks like in game:

WIYYlMO.png



versus how she looks in the game's official art

latest




I also discovered this line from Edgar in the JP version of VI when he encounters the 10 year old Relm - "I need to get a hold of myself... or it's going to be a crime". In English he says "Not even a lady yet. Here's hoping you're still around in eight years, kid" which is still terrible but not as horrifying.

That is super fucking gross.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Los Angeles, CA
Yeah Chrono Trigger is probably the best of the SNES RPGs when it comes to keeping things respectable, the Ayla stuff was a little bit of a stretch and relies a lot on interpretation. Dragon Quest is probably fine too outside of puff-puff.

That said I did look into the FF stuff out of curiosity and on top of sprites like these...

120

62

61


I also discovered this line from Edgar in the JP version of VI when he encounters the 10 year old Relm - "I need to get a hold of myself... or it's going to be a crime". In English he says "Not even a lady yet. Here's hoping you're still around in eight years, kid" which is still terrible but not as horrifying.

So yeah, I do think folks can be a bit too generous to older JRPGs. It's definitely not as prevalent as it is now and there are more outright exceptions but really the boy's club mentality has probably run deep behind the scenes for decades.

Eww, that's pretty gross, even the English translation is bad. Perhaps because most of my JRPG experience from the 80's and 90's was limited to briefly playing the first Final Fantasy in the 80's, and then Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger in the mid 90's, that I don't have enough of a sample size to pull from, but after Chrono Trigger made me obsessed with them, I played a lot more during the PS1 and PS2 eras, and I don't recall them being as disgustingly egregious as they are now. It's like, the potential for the genre thanks to the powerful hardware is so grand, but we get title after title of this weeb/otaku pandering that's so fucking offputting.

I love the Persona games, but they fall short in so many ways, whether it's homophobia/transphobia, and fanservice characters and scenarios. I have DQXI on PS4, but I'm only about 2 hours into it, and I'm enjoying it, but I keep waiting for that other shoe to drop when I start meeting more characters. I'm enjoying Xenoblade Chronicles 2 on the Switch, and I like it, but Pyra's character and design just make me roll my eyes (I'm also not terribly far in that, but the fan service feels strong in this one already). Like, my personal litmus test for a lot of these games are, "If someone were walk in the room while I'm playing this game, would I turn beet red from embarrassment?" Actually, I apply that to my own writing and drawing when I'm working on a character, or drawing a character design for my comic. Representation and inclusivity are incredibly near and dear to me as a person of color, an artist/writer, and a game designer, so I try to be as cognizant of how I'm portraying people, and what I'm saying with that portrayal. It's why I adore threads like this. They've been super informative and enlightening for me.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Seriously. Like, what the fuck does that even mean?
Seems to be that physiologically the girls don't age by whatever magical or scientific method that exists in the game's universe, but measured from birth, they are technically some age where 365 days of existence = +1 year to your age. So, they might've lived for 30 years if measured in days since their birth but since their development otherwise was halted at a younger age, they look like 15.

It's another, perhaps even creepier, more gross version of the "5000 year old dragon in super young human girl form" trope.
 

Babymomo

Member
Aug 14, 2019
200
So instead of pants you just cover every gap in your shorts with straps:

This one is just hilarious:
If there's even a slight breeze..

Can i ask why on earth their legs look like that?? They look so unbelivably weird, its the balance, why cant they just draw them standing straight. It makes them look like they cant walk, like physics is fighting them.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Los Angeles, CA
Seems to be that physiologically the girls don't age by whatever magical or scientific method that exists in the game's universe, but measured from birth, they are technically some age where 365 days of existence = +1 year to your age. So, they might've lived for 30 years if measured in days since their birth but since their development otherwise was halted at a younger age, they look like 15.

It's another, perhaps even creepier, more gross version of the "5000 year old dragon in super young human girl form" trope.

That's so fucking stupid. Like, it's not even that compelling of a sci-fi concept like Old Man's War, where an older mind is transferred into the consciousness of a younger, genetically enhanced body. At least in that story, the body is still an adult, and the mind is that of a 75 year old. This is just pure fanservice wank to be able to have characters do that obnoxious "I'm a grown woman, but I'm going to behave like an 8 year old because it makes me so cuuuuuuute" trope I see all the time in anime and JRPGs. It's just stupid and gross. But what's more disturbing is how many people actually like that shit.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Eww, that's pretty gross, even the English translation is bad. Perhaps because most of my JRPG experience from the 80's and 90's was limited to briefly playing the first Final Fantasy in the 80's, and then Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger in the mid 90's, that I don't have enough of a sample size to pull from, but after Chrono Trigger made me obsessed with them, I played a lot more during the PS1 and PS2 eras, and I don't recall them being as disgustingly egregious as they are now. It's like, the potential for the genre thanks to the powerful hardware is so grand, but we get title after title of this weeb/otaku pandering that's so fucking offputting.

I love the Persona games, but they fall short in so many ways, whether it's homophobia/transphobia, and fanservice characters and scenarios. I have DQXI on PS4, but I'm only about 2 hours into it, and I'm enjoying it, but I keep waiting for that other shoe to drop when I start meeting more characters. I'm enjoying Xenoblade Chronicles 2 on the Switch, and I like it, but Pyra's character and design just make me roll my eyes (I'm also not terribly far in that, but the fan service feels strong in this one already). Like, my personal litmus test for a lot of these games are, "If someone were walk in the room while I'm playing this game, would I turn beet red from embarrassment?" Actually, I apply that to my own writing and drawing when I'm working on a character, or drawing a character design for my comic. Representation and inclusivity are incredibly near and dear to me as a person of color, an artist/writer, and a game designer, so I try to be as cognizant of how I'm portraying people, and what I'm saying with that portrayal. It's why I adore threads like this. They've been super informative and enlightening for me.

I think you're gonna be mostly fine with DQXI, at least. I haven't played too much of it (about 20 hours) but I know there's one character relatively later who's a bit sexualized but nowhere near to the extent of Ann in Persona 5 or 90% of XB2

And yeah I get that embarassment litmus test. There was one scene early on in XB2 where Rex wakes up on Pyra's lap where I was basically hovering my finger over my TV's power button because it had the creepiest and cheesiest first person view. Same goes for whenever I summoned a new blade because that's when there's Maximum Jiggle.

I just don't get the lack of self awareness for how that sort of thing ruins whatever positives exist regarding the story, actual character personalities, world building, and whatever else. When you have to bend over backwards to justify why a character looks the way they do in your setting then you've already messed up.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Can i ask why on earth their legs look like that?? They look so unbelivably weird, its the balance, why cant they just draw them standing straight. It makes them look like they cant walk, like physics is fighting them.

At first I thought it was going for the usual anime thing of every girl having leg valgus, but honestly in those drawing it doesn't even look like that. It looks like they are just floating with no solid surface to stand on.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
That's so fucking stupid. Like, it's not even that compelling of a sci-fi concept like Old Man's War, where an older mind is transferred into the consciousness of a younger, genetically enhanced body. At least in that story, the body is still an adult, and the mind is that of a 75 year old. This is just pure fanservice wank to be able to have characters do that obnoxious "I'm a grown woman, but I'm going to behave like an 8 year old because it makes me so cuuuuuuute" trope I see all the time in anime and JRPGs. It's just stupid and gross. But what's more disturbing is how many people actually like that shit.
Yeah, I think this is even more insidious than the 5000 year old dragon thing because at least you can argue that the dragon has lived for 5000 years so there's some actual mental maturity there, however gross the sexualized girl form is. This is just "let's stop girls from developing brains/body past that of a 15 year old in this fictional tale but make up an excuse to claim they are actually adults because technically they've lived for more than 16-18 years (whatever your definition of not-creepy-age is), why not have our pedo cake and eat it too!" (oh god I'm defending the 5000 year old dragon pedo bait trope, kill me now).
 

Dragmire

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,117
Can i ask why on earth their legs look like that?? They look so unbelivably weird, its the balance, why cant they just draw them standing straight. It makes them look like they cant walk, like physics is fighting them.
Forgot the name. But it seems to be that childlike pose they like doing. It looks even worse here because it's a character model sheet.

Anyway this whole adult mind in a child's body thing is something I've been hearing very often and frequent lately. Did they catch on on how much their creepy shit is being criticized or something? And are using this trope to try and get away with it?
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Los Angeles, CA
I think you're gonna be mostly fine with DQXI, at least. I haven't played too much of it (about 20 hours) but I know there's one character relatively later who's a bit sexualized but nowhere near to the extent of Ann in Persona 5 or 90% of XB2

And yeah I get that embarassment litmus test. There was one scene early on in XB2 where Rex wakes up on Pyra's lap where I was basically hovering my finger over my TV's power button because it had the creepiest and cheesiest first person view. Same goes for whenever I summoned a new blade because that's when there's Maximum Jiggle.

I just don't get the lack of self awareness for how that sort of thing ruins whatever positives exist regarding the story, actual character personalities, world building, and whatever else. When you have to bend over backwards to justify why a character looks the way they do in your setting then you've already messed up.

That's good to know! I'm really digging DQXI, but I've been saving some of my RPGs to play on the PS5 now that it's so close. I have a huge backlog of shorter games that I'm chipping away at, so I've set my RPGs aside.

And absolutely to the bolded. Like, you shouldn't have to go through mental gymnastics to explain why your obvious fan service creepfest is fan service creepfest. Stop trying to bullshit people because you're too chickenshit to admit that you're just a perv and/or misogynist with some gross worldviews. I empathize so much with women that just want to enjoy fucking video games, and the vast majority of them are a goddamn embarrassment at best, and outright offensive at worst when it comes to how women are represented. And the level of pushback they get for voicing their frustration is truly disgusting.
 

Babymomo

Member
Aug 14, 2019
200
God i can't put into words how much i hate JRPG/Anime games..... how do you guys do it?? Its so off puting to me just how the female characters like fucking MOVE to start with, the hands always being near their chest in a dainty manner and its always flapping around when their running and the legs look like they belong to someone else as it tries to give a booty shot to the camera, literally breaking the back to achieve it, plus the voice acting for both domestic and foriegn voices, literally sounds like nails on a chalk board and if their voices arent higher then a skyscraper the deep voiced ones are literally moaning every other sentence. Like i know there are good ones that don't have any of this but the industry is so incestual i would need to do an actual search to find one. I try my best to not be so judgemental and biased but its basically impossible for me :/
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,915
Poppin in just to say that I lurk in this thread and really appreciate both the insights, the opinions and also it's pretty funny (I mean just look at the first pic on this page).

I do not comment because as a man I really have no voice on the matter, but even as a former horny af weeb teenager and college boy in the past 2 or 3 year I've grown super grossed out, bored and annoyed about sexualized girls and women in games and media, especially japanese games and even more so especially teenage girls. So I always peek here to get more critical takes.
 
Aug 26, 2018
3,731
日本
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
I think if Chrono Trigger was as bad as it ever got, we wouldn't be at OT3 right now. There would still be problems, to be sure, but we wouldn't be seeing stuff literally every day and go, "oof, what the fuck is that?"
 

Thomasorus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
96
...Rape...horse...? I haven't seen/read Berserk and that is not a term that I want to google. Could someone give me a brief explanation?

There's a moment in berserk when Guts escapes from the inquisition using Farnese as an hostage (Farnese being the one that captured him in the first place as the head of inquisition). They have an accident, their horse is getting possessed and appears to have a human face and an erection. He prepares himself to rape Farnese but has his head cut by Guts. Note that Farnese is chest naked due to being taken hostage by Guts while she was self-flagellating.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,059
A 3D remake of Chrono Trigger would only worry me, in the fear that they'd take these excellent character designs, and "update" them. So you'd have Ayla with huge boobs, probably missing her cave dress, so she's only wearing her underwear and no boots, and other such fan service bullshit. I definitely want to hear what women have to say about these characters though, as I'm obviously coming from a straight male perspective of what I remember from these games and characters, and I don't think I've seen any discussion about the representation of women in Chrono Trigger compared to the "3,000 year old dragons" or "She breathes through her skin, so, obviously, she has to be scantily clad!" we get in modern games.
Tangentially related but how would a prehistoric "cavewoman" character even be designed, realistically? Are there even examples?

I guess it would depend on the climate, and you might look at modern hunter-gatherer people for examples.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
So spelunky 2 just came out. I wasn't following a single thing about this game, I knew I liked the first one so I just bought it when I saw it was out. I was really pleasently surprised to see that the main character was made to be the daughter of the main character from the first game (and the previously unnamed character choice of a woman in yellow I think? They call her Tina now).

Ana Spelunky
L16zQIH.jpg


And her appearance in game
tscxSPi.jpg



I really genuinely appreciate how she is a super cartoony chibi girl who is still clearly visually identifiable as a girl without giving her some quick feminine trademark like a bow in her hair, and without that terrible thing american cartoons do all the time of "you can tell the women because they have lips while the men don't." I love the way she looks for this game.

Edit: Changed my avatar to Ana whipping, why not. Been Ellie for a while now, and there were a lot of us out there with Ellie avatars.
 
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
Tangentially related but how would a prehistoric "cavewoman" character even be designed, realistically? Are there even examples?

I guess it would depend on the climate, and you might look at modern hunter-gatherer people for examples.
There's no real historical evidence, but at least from an anthropological perspective it's likely they wore hides and mostly lived in tropical or subtropical areas, living in caves or grass huts. There is at least some speculation that certain groups simply didn't wear clothes at all, though no evidence exists to really support it. Nudity also wasn't really an issue for most people until religion came around. How people lived changed drastically once those societies that supported religions rose to prominence.

The most we can tell for sure from old bones mostly relates to body structure and diet, anything else basically passed away to time.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
God i can't put into words how much i hate JRPG/Anime games..... how do you guys do it?? Its so off puting to me just how the female characters like fucking MOVE to start with, the hands always being near their chest in a dainty manner and its always flapping around when their running and the legs look like they belong to someone else as it tries to give a booty shot to the camera, literally breaking the back to achieve it, plus the voice acting for both domestic and foriegn voices, literally sounds like nails on a chalk board and if their voices arent higher then a skyscraper the deep voiced ones are literally moaning every other sentence. Like i know there are good ones that don't have any of this but the industry is so incestual i would need to do an actual search to find one. I try my best to not be so judgemental and biased but its basically impossible for me :/
Completely agree.
 

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
997
God i can't put into words how much i hate JRPG/Anime games..... how do you guys do it??

After over decades of playing games you can get used to a lot of trash and so it goes. I mean, I had to fight over every single topic that bothered me I wouldn't complete much progress towards my hobbies. There's not a single area where women are free from terrible sexism, judgment, and suffering.

I do avoid games like TW3 and Ubisoft though.
 

Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,462
God i can't put into words how much i hate JRPG/Anime games..... how do you guys do it?? Its so off puting to me just how the female characters like fucking MOVE to start with, the hands always being near their chest in a dainty manner and its always flapping around when their running and the legs look like they belong to someone else as it tries to give a booty shot to the camera, literally breaking the back to achieve it, plus the voice acting for both domestic and foriegn voices, literally sounds like nails on a chalk board and if their voices arent higher then a skyscraper the deep voiced ones are literally moaning every other sentence. Like i know there are good ones that don't have any of this but the industry is so incestual i would need to do an actual search to find one. I try my best to not be so judgemental and biased but its basically impossible for me :/

I have a moderate-to-low tolerance threshold at this point for anime bullshit but I will say it took some HEAVY compartmentalization for me to have as good a time as I overall did with FF7r. I guess it's kinda like watching a musical that happens to be a good movie even though I hate musicals.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
It's that time again


Oh boy. They could've at least done something like Gen Lock where the technology syncs better with young developing brains but that's some real "breathes through her skin" rationalization.

Chrono Trigger specifically has Ayla's design which would probably raise some eyebrows if it were rendered in HD, she still had her kissing buffs, and Kino said those lines about her having "much energy" when they talk about her descendents
There's an interview somewhere that said Ayla's sprites were bouncier in development before being told to tone it down. Might've dodged a bullet there.

Speaking of, here's something fun.

Who Wore It Better?: Young Teenage Thief Girl Edition



Crazy how similar they are and the big difference is the sexualization between the two.
 

ARobotCalledV

Member
Aug 22, 2020
1,554
God i can't put into words how much i hate JRPG/Anime games..... how do you guys do it??

I lurk this thread because I think it's a good place to just learn things but I'll try and answer this one. It's just because jrpgs have some of the best stories, gameplay and music in the medium, despite the load of problems they present.

I've yet to play a game with a world as wonderful as Final Fantasy IX, a protagonist as charming as Trails in the Sky's Estelle or a game that marries narrative with game design perfectly to tell something meaningful as Persona 3. I'd also have played all these games for their music alone. This doesn't mean to ignore the issues, such as TitS's sometimes antiquated idea of gender roles or Persona 3's treatment of gay characters, but I'd never give up having experienced these games.