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Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."
- Thread starter Persephone
- Start date
- OT
It's hard to say exactly what will happen but trailer fake outs is one of the biggest Resident Evil tropes at this point lol.
Ha, ha, yeah. I personally never liked that outfit even when it was 1st shown and I still don't like it now.
Oh yeah I forgot about that one...I can't imagine trying to fight monsters wearing that!Plus Claire had this asinine one.
Plus Claire had this asinine one.
Capcom is clearly ripping off Onechanbara.
Wouldn't clothes just get in her way when fighting zombies? I'd imagine you'd trip or get stuck and if we're honest, the clothes probably provide little protection from the deadly virus anyway. Probably best to fight in skimpy clothes. Also would help her breathe through her skin. That extra oxygen gives her that stamina boost.
So yeah, obviously Capcom put a lot of thought into this.
So yeah, obviously Capcom put a lot of thought into this.
I like GoW2018 too, but it was veeeeeeeeery much a redemption story for himself. How else do you explain lines like "I am not your monster anymore" or Freya basically saying he's nothing but an angry animal to which he then refutes by telling boi the truth of his past.
They go haaaaaaaard into "Kratos is not that evil bastard anymore, he's good now" territory.
I don't really consider either of those examples as redemption moments. The first doesn't even negate the assertion entirely (and indeed, the game shows he's still got anger issues).
Likewise with the second, he's more of a character now, absolutely, but I don't really consider not being GoW1/2/3 awful as redemption.
I don't see how those redeem him.
The whole game is about him trying to teach Atreus not to "become him".
The first spoiler is basically Kratos that he understands he is a monster but he won't let them control him anymore and the other is him finally telling Atreus the truth he was hiding because he trusts him not to turn out like he did. The whole game you can see his struggle in trying to raise Atreus as someone that doesn't let rage consume him. He was afraid Atreus will end up learning from him.
I don't see how the above redeems him.
I don't know what your subjective definitions of redemption are, but in either case, the accusations of Kratos being a monster are narratively designed to fall flat because he is now doing good.
Generally speaking, when characters say "You are still bad!" and character counters with "But I am not that bad...anymore", and then goes on to do a good thing (which it unambigiously is. I don't care how much ominous music you put in there, Kratos picking up weapons he needs to save his son is obviously a good act), that's coded as redemption.
That art is really....something. But the commenary is so good, though.
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So the team laughed off the bikini pics but thought these were okay. O.O
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Makes me really appreciate the modern RE designs for women. Could deal with no heels for Ada, but even her design isn't too bad in the dress, and better than the re4 one.
Yeah I actually do like Ada's design in RE2 Remake a lot, one of my favorites even.
Isn't the rumour about the story that...
... their child is some kind of monstrosity worshipped by the infected cult in town or something like that?
Oof. That's really bad. I'm glad Capcom has seemingly left the days of gratuitous 'fan service' in Resident Evil behind them.
I don't want to derail the thread but I felt they did a good job with showing how Kratos was ruining things once again (His quest is probably going to make the world go to hell next game with how much he messed up). It is debatable he did good things in the game. Even the things he did for Freya could be seen as bad things considering her toxic parent behavior.
Would have been too on the nose that they were somewhat aping The Last of Us.
I like how that was crossing the line and made the designer embarrassed, yet the game and it's sequel has plenty of fanservice.
From what I read, the director is embarrassed of a lot of the designs in the first game and wish they could have changed it. Especially Jessica's.
Not sure if they are the same director for REV2 but apparently they worked on RE7 and 8 so I guess they were saying the truth.
Unless your suggesting that Kratos should have let Atreus die so that he would not prematurely start Ragnarok, an event he neither knows about nor knows how to start nor did he have any knowledge he would start it by killing Baldur, it's framed as an unambiguously good thing man.
Kratos was a fucking bastard and even the 2018 game is afraid to grapple with his core flaws as a character in it's bid to redeem him, but no one is going to claim that Kratos did the wrong thing by taking up blades of chaos to save his son from helhiem, which is the event in which we are actually talking about, and one that had no direct negative consequences except to various monsters in helheim. They eventually lead to the confrontation with Baldur, but that's simply way too many degrees of separation to reasonably put on Kratos feet and even the final baldur fight itself doesn't put him that much on him in terms of culpability.
But more importantly, one thing I think we're talking past to each other on is that I think you're talking about your personal feelings on whether you now consider Kratos a good person, whereas I'm talking about the narrative framing. Like, Folding Ideas did a video on the Snowman where he talks about a scene that is framed as being creepy and terrifying, but Dan himself finds really funny. It's not a 1:1 comparison because it's a totally different subject matter, but this is distinction I'm actually talking about, what you think in your head vs what the game is saying - you may not think that Kratos was redeemed for whatever given factor you have of redemption. Hell, I don't agree that he was redeemed because they don't address his actual issues in the game. But regardless of what you or I think, the game absolutely is screaming at you "HE IS DIFFERENT NOW, HE IS DOING GOOD THINGS" It is deliberately manufacting scenes where his past is put into an stark contrast with who he is now, where everything he does is for an unambiguous good.
And if you want to argue that it's not, that it is ambiguous or conflicted, you'd have to explain how Kratos simply letting Atreus die in Helheim is framed (again, by the game, not you personally) to be a legitimate moral option.
For the record, rather than straight up develops, it's more that it kind of retcons our understanding of Kratos' character. It references times before Ares where Kratos was a calmer, gentler soldier where he listened to stories or cared about his fellow soldier's honor and shit like that. And the Kratos we see throughout the 3 games is him at his worst because constant nightmares have basically driven him crazy. So, with the nightmares gone as of III and then a thousand year time skip or whatever it was, Kratos wasn't merely developing into a new person, he was returning to his calmer, gentler self from before Ares.
The entire Greek Saga was basically just a prolonged "you're not you when your hungry" snicker's ad.
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If they were saying the truth, it doesn't explain those yikes-worthy alts. Yea I know they are alts, but the Claire ones in RE2 and Jill for 3 are all tasteful.
You're talking about Koshi Nakanishi, he only directed Revelations 1 and then moved on to VII.
I'm really curious what happened internally that made Capcom treat women in Resident Evil more respectfully.
Sharp analysis. Very early on in the game, within the first hour even, Kratos kills a troll. Atreus' reaction to run screaming towards its corpse and begin to stab it repeatedly doesn't elicit rage or bitterness from Kratos. Instead, he looks defeated and disappointed. Him reprimanding Atreus isn't done out of anger, rather intense concern that his son is going to wind up just like him: a killer and a brute, cruel and unfeeling.
I don't feel the game ultimately did a great job making his character growth from "violent, bloodthirsty sex maniac" Kratos to "remorseful dad" Kratos, but at the very least his arc with Atreus doesn't feel wasted. A lot of those moments hit really hard, especially when the game shows more than it tells in regards to how Kratos views his son early on.
You do have a point in that the game does make Kratos out to be "justified" with what he did in the game a lot of the time. After all, the things he does are things that are more "human" compared to the cartoony emo edge actions he did in the original series.
With that said, I felt they did make me feel that he is messing things up for people. The thing he did at the end of the game to Freya felt as if they didn't frame it as an ultimately good thing. It felt like a set up for things getting worse and that is due to Kratos selfishly wanting his kid not to learn from what he was seeing.
That's how it felt like to me but I could be in the minority.
Well the thing is that I am talking about him saying it later on. It is in the artbook of the game where he says after looking back, he was embarrassed and wish they didn't let those designs in the game. I guess it is kind of similiar to writing something for school then rereading it after a couple years and being embarrassed by them.
Yeah him. I wasn't sure if he did REV2 or not but I do know he is the same guy behind VII and knowing how the designs for VII were, I believe him when he said he was embarrassed. It is a shame they didn't think of it back when REV 1 got made.
Yeah when I think about it, the story had it's fair share of flaws but when it comes to redemption, it didn't feel as if they wanted to show Kratos as a good guy. More as a father trying to make their child better than them and not learn from their mistakes. Even bad people can wish they kids turn out to be good people.
hi I'm just hetero cis male scum but I read your OP and I just wanted to congratulate you all on being unapologetically dank as fuck
like holy shit lmao
I don't really view that as redemption so we will have to agree to disagree.
A bad person not doing a bad thing at some later time is never a redemption for prior acts without something far more.
Is Kratos a less terrible person in GoW2018? Absolutely. But that's not redemption.
When Capcom decides to remake RE4(and not Code Veronica for some reason) I do wonder what they would do with Ada's design in that remake.
Kinda reluctant to give Riot any credit here with their historically toxic workplace, but Legends of Runeterra has some really awesome variety in the female character art once you get past the champion characters.
...But on the other hand, quite a few of the women in the game seem to be missing their internal organs.
...But on the other hand, quite a few of the women in the game seem to be missing their internal organs.
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Mia getting shot in RE8's trailer has to be misdirection or Chris incapacitating her because of virus shenanigans.
The best Leon(and Claire) skin 👏🏻
I love the noir alts
The best Leon(and Claire) skin 👏🏻
I do appreciate that Clair's Elza Walker skin was designed to actually LOOK like something a professional motorist would wear.
Considering how women in one-piece clothing usually turn out, this could have easily been fanserviced into having her zipper down to her navel.
Alright, this is gonna be my last post because this is not the "Why Kratos is a shitheel" thread. That's for another thread.
But like I said in my post, what your subjective definition and standard of redemption is do not matter. This isn't about what you think redemption is or is not.
Whether you or I say that this is appropriate redemption, the game itself is definitely saying it absolutely is in it's narrative construction.
I do appreciate that Clair's Elza Walker skin was designed to actually LOOK like something a professional motorist would wear.
Considering how women in one-piece clothing usually turn out, this could have easily been fanserviced into having her zipper down to her navel.
Gotta give it a solid second place.
Expect for Claire's classic outfit, most of the RE2 costumes were fantastic.
If Claire's outfit lost the tie and was more unbuttoned- *sweats in lesbian*I love the noir alts
Ashley is my biggest concern.
Yea all the Claire alts are very tastefully done. Even this one aside from the corny flag.I do appreciate that Clair's Elza Walker skin was designed to actually LOOK like something a professional motorist would wear.
Considering how women in one-piece clothing usually turn out, this could have easily been fanserviced into having her zipper down to her navel.
Talking about Resident Evil, I think Jill's BSAA costume from RE5 is incredibly underrated:
It's such a nice design and one that fits Jill perfectly (although I prefer it without the cap). RE is funny in a way because you have incredible design for many of their female characters but also some terrible ones.
It's such a nice design and one that fits Jill perfectly (although I prefer it without the cap). RE is funny in a way because you have incredible design for many of their female characters but also some terrible ones.
I disagree with your statement as to what the game is saying because the scenes you are drawing from aren't clear cut in their coding for anything.
Stating a scene is coded for redemption because a character doesn't choose to do bad thing X doesn't make it about redemption, nor a redemption for horrendous past actions.
Put another way, if GoW 2018 was trying to redeem Kratos, it absolutely failed on every level. It humanized him, it made him less of a monster, it made him more of a character but to actually redeem him? I had no read of that in any scene.
I really love 2018 God of War, but the thing that made me really angry and uncomfortable was that Lysandra and Calliope weren't explored in the slightest, which seemed insane to me considering that their deaths and Kratos' part in them had pretty much driven the series up until that point. Kratos' fears that Atreus would find out that Kratos killed his monstrous father over his own innocent wife and daughter was really, really disturbing to me. I know Kratos was tricked into killing them, but to angst more over killing his piece of shit father than over his wife and daughter? Wow.
With 2018 GoW, there was a genuinely important father/son journey that was explored, especially because of the focus on deconstructing toxic masculinity. It was just depressing that Lysandra and Calliope, who were already fridged for Kratos' motivation, felt retroactively even more like disposable plot devices that before. Whilst I can understand Kratos fearing the father/son cycle of violence continuing with Atreus, it also seems baffling to me that he wouldn't have fears about accidentally killing or losing his son like he did Calliope. When Atreus is in danger, there's not a hint of 'oh no not again' from Kratos.
If I remember correctly, there was a video interview (I think it was this one?) that hints that the truth about Lysandra/Calliope might be explored further in the future. That being said, I still think not exploring their deaths in some form was to the detriment of the game.
With 2018 GoW, there was a genuinely important father/son journey that was explored, especially because of the focus on deconstructing toxic masculinity. It was just depressing that Lysandra and Calliope, who were already fridged for Kratos' motivation, felt retroactively even more like disposable plot devices that before. Whilst I can understand Kratos fearing the father/son cycle of violence continuing with Atreus, it also seems baffling to me that he wouldn't have fears about accidentally killing or losing his son like he did Calliope. When Atreus is in danger, there's not a hint of 'oh no not again' from Kratos.
If I remember correctly, there was a video interview (I think it was this one?) that hints that the truth about Lysandra/Calliope might be explored further in the future. That being said, I still think not exploring their deaths in some form was to the detriment of the game.
The otherwise cathartic moment of when Kratos was released from his bandages felt false to me because Kratos still hadn't told the full truth about his past to Atreus, only about Zeus. There was no undertone from Kratos that he was still holding elements of his past back, so Lysandra/Calliope felt like they'd never existed.
2018 GOW was basically trying to be Unforgiven. I can understand that. I thought the execution was okay. It just... did the typical dead mom thing and mostly focused on being a Sad Dad game, just like a lot of other Sad Dad games.
Jessica and Elize in Resident Evil Revelations 1 were very unusual for RE character designs. Rev 1 was easily the most anime RE game.
Jessica and Elize in Resident Evil Revelations 1 were very unusual for RE character designs. Rev 1 was easily the most anime RE game.
Revelations 1 had such a drastic clash of tones. It was trying to partially be a return to form of classic horror, Jill(and Parker) on the ship stuff. Also the Chris stuff that was very Re5. Then also the flashbacks that were just pure action. Then the two weirdos and their plot.
Rev 1 was directed by Koshi Nakanishi, who also did RE7. Rev 2 was directed by Yasuhiro Anpo, who also co-directed RE5, RE2make and RE3make.
I love the noir alts
I'm kinda sad that "sexy" is way too often understood ONLY as having less clothes.
Couldn't agree more.
I'm kinda sad that "sexy" is way too often understood ONLY as having less clothes.
I've had a stealth itch recently and decided to give 2009's World War II stealth-'em-up Velvet Assassin a go. Unfortunately, with its temperamental stealth mechanics, atrocious AI, awkward controls, and dull levels, it didn't scratch that itch but I thought the protagonist of Violette Summer was ripe for this thread.
Agent Violette Summer is an SOE agent injured in the line of duty, and the story is framed through her lying in a hospital bed in a negligee recounting her various missions across Europe. The game's gimmick is that when Violette uses morphine found liberally in every level, time momentarily stops and rose petals fall from the sky as you smash the fash as a pretty little waif in that very same skimpy negligee. You can see her breasts through the fabric so I've covered them in the image below in case it breaks forum rules.
Her mission outfits are also very male-gazey, being practically skintight around her posterior and looking more suited to Splinter Cell than a game set in World War II - the box art prominently shows her from behind (and her behind). Her waist is unrealistically proportioned and her face is uncannily porcelain, but I can't tell if the latter is a stylistic choice as the Nazi soldiers also have exaggerated sunken faces and hollow eyes.
The tone of the game is dark and doesn't glorify or sanitise war, such as Summer coldly stating 30,000 civilian casualties in an Allied bombing raid she was part of or encountering the bodies of children murdered by the Nazis swinging from gallows. This makes the sexualisation fucking weirder and incongruous with the rest of the game. To make it extra awful, Summer is based on the real-life SOE agent Violette Szabo who conducted operations in occupied France. She was later captured and suffered months of harsh treatment in appalling conditions at the hands of the Nazis in Ravensbrück's concentration camp before being executed. It isn't a surprise that her daughter refused to let the developers use Szabo's name in the game. RPS did a decent article musing about that here.
You wouldn't see Soap or Ramirez show off their asses on the cover of Modern Warfare 2.
There's also an SS disguise Violette can wear and like... no wonder every Nazi opens fire on you. Nobody stands or walks with that posture unless they want an emergency chiropractor's appointment.
Agent Violette Summer is an SOE agent injured in the line of duty, and the story is framed through her lying in a hospital bed in a negligee recounting her various missions across Europe. The game's gimmick is that when Violette uses morphine found liberally in every level, time momentarily stops and rose petals fall from the sky as you smash the fash as a pretty little waif in that very same skimpy negligee. You can see her breasts through the fabric so I've covered them in the image below in case it breaks forum rules.
Her mission outfits are also very male-gazey, being practically skintight around her posterior and looking more suited to Splinter Cell than a game set in World War II - the box art prominently shows her from behind (and her behind). Her waist is unrealistically proportioned and her face is uncannily porcelain, but I can't tell if the latter is a stylistic choice as the Nazi soldiers also have exaggerated sunken faces and hollow eyes.
The tone of the game is dark and doesn't glorify or sanitise war, such as Summer coldly stating 30,000 civilian casualties in an Allied bombing raid she was part of or encountering the bodies of children murdered by the Nazis swinging from gallows. This makes the sexualisation fucking weirder and incongruous with the rest of the game. To make it extra awful, Summer is based on the real-life SOE agent Violette Szabo who conducted operations in occupied France. She was later captured and suffered months of harsh treatment in appalling conditions at the hands of the Nazis in Ravensbrück's concentration camp before being executed. It isn't a surprise that her daughter refused to let the developers use Szabo's name in the game. RPS did a decent article musing about that here.
You wouldn't see Soap or Ramirez show off their asses on the cover of Modern Warfare 2.
There's also an SS disguise Violette can wear and like... no wonder every Nazi opens fire on you. Nobody stands or walks with that posture unless they want an emergency chiropractor's appointment.
Watch enough SFV tournaments and you really really really really really really get tired of looking at Chun Li's crotch during her Critical Art, it's seriously fucking tasteless.