It's probably one of those VNs that only had hentai scenes because that was the only way it could initially get greenlit in the first place, and the original creators probably always wanted to make a version without hentai scenes. Same thing happened with Fant/Stay Night. That's where the industry has been for like 20 years now.
These "this VN had to be a porn game because they thought it wouldn't sell otherwise" defenses never sit right with me because it's one thing for there to just be token sex scenes, but it's never just simple token sex scenes and always stuff like token sex scenes with underage characters and/or token sex scenes with dubious consent at best, not to mention how the female characters are treated in general outside of the sex scenes. I can't speak for Utawarerumono as I'm not familiar with those games, but even if the Fate franchise ended up technically evolving away from being 18+ porn games, it's still to this day constantly sexualizing minors, putting women in ridiculous bikini armor outfits, has female characters with breasts the size of hot air balloons, is arbitrarily turning historical men into demure waifus for straight men to imagine being in a relationship with... I'll take a fantasy story with corporate-mandated consensual sex scenes between adults any day over that, if those even exist.
She-ra's new design is wonderful and I was sold from the moment it was revealed. So many meltdowns around that period but it came out and blew people away. Became so much to so many and only highlights the importance (and potential success) of those willing to step toward something better for all.
The constant male chauvinism and objectification is one reason (the other being juvenile writing) I play much fewer JRPGs nowadays than I did in the 90s and early 2000s. The genre really seems to have been regressed. I mean compare the female characters in, say, Xenogears with the ones in the latest Xenoblade. And even if female characters aren't that obviously sexualized often enough they are still sexist archetypes. This year I played Persona 5 Royal from which I expected much and was seriously disappointed by the writing and the bland characters and Final Fantasy 7R, and while I guess both games tried to be better in regards to their female protagonists both ultimately fail. Are we just spoilt in the west with characters like Cassandra, Ellie, Reboot-Lara Croft or Aloy?
Can you jump into the wild arms games randomly. Like... they are disconnected completely right, so I can just play 3 without playing 1/2, and without feeling a need to play on afterwords?
Yes you can, Wild Arms 3 is stand alone. You can get it on PS4 HD remastered and goes on sale all the time. Its far from perfect but not a bikini clad 1000 year old dragon in sight at least.
The constant male chauvinism and objectification is one reason (the other being juvenile writing) I play much fewer JRPGs nowadays than I did in the 90s and early 2000s. The genre really seems to have been regressed. I mean compare the female characters in, say, Xenogears with the ones in the latest Xenoblade. And even if female characters aren't that obviously sexualized often enough they are still sexist archetypes. This year I played Persona 5 Royal from which I expected much and was seriously disappointed by the writing and the bland characters and Final Fantasy 7R, and while I guess both games tried to be better in regards to their female protagonists both ultimately fail. Are we just spoilt in the west with characters like Cassandra, Ellie, Reboot-Lara Croft or Aloy?
I think that's the reason why I've pretty much given up on JRPGs. The writing is just so exceptionally base that it's hard to even call them stories.
This review of Crash is what I constantly think when I'm playing JRPGs these days:
With that said, I don't think there's a single human being in Crash. Instead you have arguments and propaganda violently bumping into each other, impressed with their own quirkiness. ("Hey look, I'm a black carjacker who resents being stereotyped.")
A bunch hollow shells shouting into their dumb void of male bullshit. Seriously, fuck people like Hoshino forever. He and people like him have ruined writing and more for JRPGs (he constantly screws Soejima over, telling him to make his designs "more cute").
Not a spoiler, just an angry rant:
Ugh. This makes me more angry the more I think about it. I just wish these people would fuck off to whatever shithole they took their bullshit from and never leave. I dunno. I apologize for the language. I just seethe whenever I start digging down into this stuff. It's just so baked in now... god, what the hell happened to the Japanese game industry? (I know the answer, I'm being rhetorical. It was taken over by these and the gacha fucks. Exploitation for money... toys for boys... asking for money and giving less than nothing in return. Such a farce...)
These "this VN had to be a porn game because they thought it wouldn't sell otherwise" defenses never sit right with me because it's one thing for there to just be token sex scenes, but it's never just simple token sex scenes and always stuff like token sex scenes with underage characters and/or token sex scenes with dubious consent at best, not to mention how the female characters are treated in general outside of the sex scenes. I can't speak for Utawarerumono as I'm not familiar with those games, but even if the Fate franchise ended up technically evolving away from being 18+ porn games, it's still to this day constantly sexualizing minors, putting women in ridiculous bikini armor outfits, has female characters with breasts the size of hot air balloons, is arbitrarily turning historical men into demure waifus for straight men to imagine being in a relationship with... I'll take a fantasy story with corporate-mandated consensual sex scenes between adults any day over that, if those even exist.
My thoughts exactly. Earlier Scrooge McDuck described twin sex slaves, that didn't happen solely because of shoehorned sex scenes and didn't disappear with their removal. Anime/anime games really blind people to the poor treatment of women (and MINORS) by oversaturating them with it, and normalizing it, so the removal of explicit sex scenes is seen as enough and the other problems are glossed over.
I played Utawarerumono briefly, and was quickly turned off by its harem BS. Whatever good qualities it has, it ain't feminist. Here's a quote from the Twinfinite review,
"From mysterious thieves to young royals, Haku's group of mostly female companions are diverse in personality and actually have the potential to be an eccentric collection of relatable heroines. Instead they spend most of their time being examined by Haku who seems to be overly concerned with the physical appearance of all his new allies. At one point, he even expresses his disappointment in the size of his rescuer's breasts.
Seriously, this is one game that really went out of its way to earn its Mature rating. Every corner of the game is packed with sexual themes that feel forced and unnecessary. Villains are constantly wanting to have their way with female characters and even the "good guys" spend time indulging the female characters that have particularly busty physiques. By the time the game introduces sex slaves to the plot, it all starts to get incredibly overwhelming in a way that isn't even necessary for the story to move forward."
Here's the thing about slaves I often find in this kind of fiction, though. They're almost always framed as a bad thing, but the main character's reaction to it falls into two general camps: either they go "but it's okay if I do it because I'm kind" or they just object weakly and practically do nothing else, which is where this main character falls into. Meanwhile the "slavery shenanigans" still happen.
I mean, I suppose you can argue that them seemingly having no other thought other than doing sexual favors emphasizes how terrible their whole situation is. But having an actual CG of them naked with the main character in bed is a choice that makes it obvious they wanted to eat the cake too. Perhaps they get better?
As to where I am...
I'm right after the talk with the Emperor about how they're both are actually humans from before the fall of civilization and it made me very apprehensive? It reminds me of isekai power fantasy where the main character is dropped into a world seemingly tailored specifically to make them thrive. Only it's worse because in this case the people of the world are explicitly genetically engineered to obey humans. It cemented my belief the he doesn't actually deserve his accolades and made me fear for what other contrivances the game have in store to continue make him fall upwards.
Perhaps that's the point, though. Perhaps it's a story about somebody who is put on a station far above his stature and then grows to fit it. It could be interesting, but this revelation came right after that "pretending to be brother" scene, which honestly crossed the line for me. I was already too weary of the game to give it the benefit of a doubt.
They definitely have their cake and eat it too - I'll agree there, and I won't dismiss the questionability of depicting 'slavery' in this respect. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an otaku product that doesn''t have its cake and eat it in that respect. The culture itself and the politics of sexualisation within it has a lot of deep-rooted issues that are hard to completely extricate. The House in Fata Morgana is the visual novel that I'd say is least alienating to non-otaku audiences, and yet you don't have to look that closely to find the same well-worn tropes and roles for female characters.
It's probably one of those VNs that only had hentai scenes because that was the only way it could initially get greenlit in the first place, and the original creators probably always wanted to make a version without hentai scenes. Same thing happened with Fant/Stay Night. That's where the industry has been for like 20 years now.
Interviews with the developers confirm this to be the case - they didn't want sex scenes in it apparently, but it's what was expected in the market, so they're rather shoehorned in apparently. Worth noting that the parent company still has a successful line in eroge games - precisely my point in terms of both having your cake and eating it and not being able to fully extricate this stuff from otaku sexualisation. It's hard being a fan of this sort of media.
These "this VN had to be a porn game because they thought it wouldn't sell otherwise" defenses never sit right with me because it's one thing for there to just be token sex scenes, but it's never just simple token sex scenes and always stuff like token sex scenes with underage characters and/or token sex scenes with dubious consent at best, not to mention how the female characters are treated in general outside of the sex scenes. I can't speak for Utawarerumono as I'm not familiar with those games, but even if the Fate franchise ended up technically evolving away from being 18+ porn games, it's still to this day constantly sexualizing minors, putting women in ridiculous bikini armor outfits, has female characters with breasts the size of hot air balloons, is arbitrarily turning historical men into demure waifus for straight men to imagine being in a relationship with... I'll take a fantasy story with corporate-mandated consensual sex scenes between adults any day over that, if those even exist.
Don't think anyone here's actually defending that decision, and because doujin and Comiket culture is what gave birth to a lot of the visual novel franchises we see today, that's what was being sold first and foremost, the actual games were the bonus. That's not defensible, but it is the cultural context that birthed it. I agree with you that the origins of these franchises are still evident in a lot of the way characters and portrayed and marketed in both Fate and Utawarerumono to this day, but I at least appreciate how Uta is fairly self-aware about it - uncomfortably, that leaves it in conflict with itself. And never mind how the games do or don't portray women, body pillows and the like are made for all of these things for Comiket, because the expected desires of the male otaku market are still cynically pandered to.
My thoughts exactly. Earlier Scrooge McDuck described twin sex slaves, that didn't happen solely because of shoehorned sex scenes and didn't disappear with their removal. Anime/anime games really blind people to the poor treatment of women (and MINORS) by oversaturating them with it, and normalizing it, so the removal of explicit sex scenes is seen as enough and the other problems are glossed over.
I played Utawarerumono briefly, and was quickly turned off by its harem BS. Whatever good qualities it has, it ain't feminist. Here's a quote from the Twinfinite review,
"From mysterious thieves to young royals, Haku's group of mostly female companions are diverse in personality and actually have the potential to be an eccentric collection of relatable heroines. Instead they spend most of their time being examined by Haku who seems to be overly concerned with the physical appearance of all his new allies. At one point, he even expresses his disappointment inthe size of his rescuer's breasts.
Seriously, this is one game that really went out of its way to earn its Mature rating. Every corner of the game is packed with sexual themes that feel forced and unnecessary. Villains are constantly wanting to have their way with female characters and even the "good guys" spend time indulging the female characters that have particularly busty physiques. By the time the game introduces sex slaves to the plot, it all starts to get incredibly overwhelming in a way that isn't even necessary for the story to move forward."
I should give it a replay because despite my love for it, I haven't done a full playthrough of Mask of Deception in a while - I honestly don't remember the bolded. I appreciate everyone's responses here - it's good to examine something you love within different contexts and see how problematic it is or not to others. I find a lot of tropes and aspects of otaku media offputting to say the least, but Utawarerumono was refreshing in tone to me in many ways, so I was curious as to what people thought - thanks all :)
My thoughts exactly. Earlier Scrooge McDuck described twin sex slaves, that didn't happen solely because of shoehorned sex scenes and didn't disappear with their removal. Anime/anime games really blind people to the poor treatment of women (and MINORS) by oversaturating them with it, and normalizing it, so the removal of explicit sex scenes is seen as enough and the other problems are glossed over.
I played Utawarerumono briefly, and was quickly turned off by its harem BS. Whatever good qualities it has, it ain't feminist.
I should give it a replay because despite my love for it, I haven't done a full playthrough of Mask of Deception in a while - I honestly don't remember the bolded. I appreciate everyone's responses here - it's good to examine something you love within different contexts and see how problematic it is or not to others. I find a lot of tropes and aspects of otaku media offputting to say the least, but Utawarerumono was refreshing in tone to me in many ways, so I was curious as to what people thought - thanks all :)
What saddens me is, the game does have a lot of great female characters. Funny, badass, competent women in various positions of power. And like you said, most of their costumes are tasteful and pretty. It's half the reason I got as far as I did despite Haku's headspace being a grating place to be. And then Haku goes into one of his horny observations as a reminder of how male-centric the game is.
God it's really frustrating, cuz you also consistently hear about how JRPGs tend to be one of the more popular game genres with women. Yet they continue to ignore and ostracize us by catering more and more and more to only their male audience. Like... can none of these game companies see the big fat pile of money they could be sitting on if they just tried a little?? Sure you may not get that immediate perv money but certainly putting in some work to foster a more inclusive audience would be more beneficial to them in the long run?? It's not like they still couldn't make their gross ass figurines and body pillows and whatnot on the side.
The Atelier games started out in the 90s as pure shoujo, aimed primarily at a female audience in Japan, iirc. But then, like a lot of things aimed at girls, it was twisted to appeal more to obsessive male fans...
I wish I could enjoy that show more, but the writing is painfully rushed, like they're trying to condense two or three episodes into one and can never give ideas the room they need to breathe.
But yeah: if you want an insight into how executives view these things, contrast the relatively low-budget She-Ra re-imagining with the upcoming Kevin Smith-penned He-Man sequel series from the animators who did Castlevania...
After seeing some light spoilers for Cold Steel 4 and the newer Kiseki game (Hajimaru)... Welp. We talked about Cold Steel and its myriad of problems before, but I think we can now safely add Kiseki as another JRPG franchise completely ruined by creepy shit.
Not only are there (spoilers for CS4 and later Kiseki games)
not one, but TWO pedophilic pairings being canon couples (Tita/Agate, and Jusis/Millium)
, but there's also this in Hajimaru, the latest Kiseki game:
And yes that's Laura, the proud, stoic swordswoman, not that it matters much who it is.
Pedophilia and mini-games where you repeatedly ogle tits is insanely gross even by Kiseki standards. Fuck off, Falcom.
A cleavage ogling mini game BARELY disguised as a DRINKING FROM A STRAW mini game?! Is that really what's happening, "help this girl drink from a straw by hitting the button at the right time"?! HAHAHA
Having not caught up all the way I'm incredibly baffled as to how on earth that second coupling happens, they're like polar opposites
And that video... yeah that's borderline DoA volleyball levels of weird. I was uncomfortable when the new Sakura Wars did something similar and in that were fully clothed (wouldn't be surprised if that changed later on tho).
I just want to shake whoever on earth in the process thinks the games need that. It doesn't compliment literally anything else in the series. Hell even Persona has the decency to keep the weirdness at a middle distance most of the time.
I don't even think romance elements should necessarily be stripped from those games, but there's a way to do it without being pervy, especially when the characters are literal teenagers (at least Laura must be over 18 there... not that it helps matters much.) In an ideal scenario the dating mechanics should be there to see other sides to characters and get to know them better, see the drama that unfolds, and make your own canon pairing, not to ogle them wearing no clothes
Like romancing Fenris in Dragon Age 2 was a pretty formative moment for me in my late teens and I wasn't there to see his nude 'bod.
After seeing some light spoilers for Cold Steel 4 and the newer Kiseki game (Hajimaru)... Welp. We talked about Cold Steel and its myriad of problems before, but I think we can now safely add Kiseki as another JRPG franchise completely ruined by creepy shit.
Not only are there (spoilers for CS4 and later Kiseki games)
not one, but TWO pedophilic pairings being canon couples (Tita/Agate, and Jusis/Millium)
, but there's also this in Hajimaru, the latest Kiseki game:
And yes that's Laura, the proud, stoic swordswoman, not that it matters much who it is.
Pedophilia and mini-games where you repeatedly ogle tits is insanely gross even by Kiseki standards. Fuck off, Falcom.
A cleavage ogling mini game BARELY disguised as a DRINKING FROM A STRAW mini game?! Is that really what's happening, "help this girl drink from a straw by hitting the button at the right time"?! HAHAHA
I don't even think romance elements should necessarily be stripped from those games, but there's a way to do it without being pervy, especially when the characters are literal teenagers (at least Laura must be over 18 there... not that it helps matters much.) I
Don't think anyone here's actually defending that decision, and because doujin and Comiket culture is what gave birth to a lot of the visual novel franchises we see today, that's what was being sold first and foremost, the actual games were the bonus. That's not defensible, but it is the cultural context that birthed it. I agree with you that the origins of these franchises are still evident in a lot of the way characters and portrayed and marketed in both Fate and Utawarerumono to this day, but I at least appreciate how Uta is fairly self-aware about it - uncomfortably, that leaves it in conflict with itself. And never mind how the games do or don't portray women, body pillows and the like are made for all of these things for Comiket, because the expected desires of the male otaku market are still cynically pandered to.
I apologize for the sloppy wording, I made my post in a haste before I had to go out, and RedSwirl wasn't particularly defending the game or the practice either. I stand by what I said in general, but I carelessly used a more confrontational tone than the posts leading up to mine really called for, that's my bad.
Utawarerumono's art style is cute, and I do like the Ainu inspirations, but I really cannot tolerate ex-porn anime franchises in particular. Other posters in the thread have pointed out other issues with the franchise too, which I'd heard vague mentions of from other places before as well. It's a shame because I'd like to see more of the cultural aesthetic Utawarerumono is going for.
Oh my god just when I thought it couldn't get worse...
This is a pre-order bonus for Hajimari:
What's so bad about this compared to the rest, you may ask? Well, first, she's probably no older than 15-16 here. But, if you've played Trails in the Sky the 3rd, you will immediately know why this is beyond fucked up.
This is Renne. She is a child in the earlier games (she's 10-11 when introduced in Trails FC). In Trails the 3rd, in a flashback sequence it is revealed that earlier in her life (so when she was even younger, about 8-9), she was sold to a brothel and was so traumatized by the sexual abuse she endured that she developed DID. It took an entire story arc for her to finally even begin to heal from that trauma.
So, they are sexualizing a child rape victim and selling merch of it.
I apologize for the sloppy wording, I made my post in a haste before I had to go out, and RedSwirl wasn't particularly defending the game or the practice either. I stand by what I said in general, but I carelessly used a more confrontational tone than the posts leading up to mine really called for, that's my bad.
Utawarerumono's art style is cute, and I do like the Ainu inspirations, but I really cannot tolerate ex-porn anime franchises in particular. Other posters in the thread have pointed out other issues with the franchise too, which I'd heard vague mentions of from other places before as well. It's a shame because I'd like to see more of the cultural aesthetic Utawarerumono is going for.
Haven't read much of it, so can't vouch for its gender politics, but the manga Golden Kamuy similarly utilises an Ainu cultural backdrop and aesthetic, albeit more reverentially and accurately than Utawarerumono does.
Oh my god just when I thought it couldn't get worse...
This is a pre-order bonus for Hajimari:
What's so bad about this compared to the rest, you may ask? Well, first, she's probably no older than 15-16 here. But, if you've played Trails in the Sky the 3rd, you will immediately know why this is beyond fucked up.
This is Renne. She is a child in the earlier games (she's 10-11 when introduced in Trails FC). In Trails the 3rd, in a flashback sequence it is revealed that earlier in her life (so when she was even younger, about 8-9), she was sold to a brothel and was so traumatized by the sexual abuse she endured that she developed DID. It took an entire story arc for her to finally even begin to heal from that trauma.
So, they are sexualizing a child rape victim and selling merch of it.
Wtf is happening with the kiseki games? I guess it's time to stop putting them on a pedestal. I own Cold Steel 1 & 2 and the older games on the psp. I might stop trying to get the rest. Is Cold Steel 3 also this creepy?
I wish I could enjoy that show more, but the writing is painfully rushed, like they're trying to condense two or three episodes into one and can never give ideas the room they need to breathe.
But yeah: if you want an insight into how executives view these things, contrast the relatively low-budget She-Ra re-imagining with the upcoming Kevin Smith-penned He-Man sequel series from the animators who did Castlevania...
How many episodes did you watch? i am half way through and i really like it 100%, but there is a lot of people that consider season 1 to be the weakest but they enjoy the rest of the show.
I had no idea about the he man series, wow, they really spent a lot on famous voices, im not sure if i like that tbh lol.
Wtf is happening with the kiseki games? I guess it's time to stop putting them on a pedestal. I own Cold Steel 1 & 2 and the older games on the psp. I might stop trying to get the rest. Is Cold Steel 3 also this creepy?
After seeing some light spoilers for Cold Steel 4 and the newer Kiseki game (Hajimaru)... Welp. We talked about Cold Steel and its myriad of problems before, but I think we can now safely add Kiseki as another JRPG franchise completely ruined by creepy shit.
Not only are there (spoilers for CS4 and later Kiseki games)
not one, but TWO pedophilic pairings being canon couples (Tita/Agate, and Jusis/Millium)
, but there's also this in Hajimaru, the latest Kiseki game:
And yes that's Laura, the proud, stoic swordswoman, not that it matters much who it is.
Pedophilia and mini-games where you repeatedly ogle tits is insanely gross even by Kiseki standards. Fuck off, Falcom.
Oh my god just when I thought it couldn't get worse...
This is a pre-order bonus for Hajimari:
What's so bad about this compared to the rest, you may ask? Well, first, she's probably no older than 15-16 here. But, if you've played Trails in the Sky the 3rd, you will immediately know why this is beyond fucked up.
This is Renne. She is a child in the earlier games (she's 10-11 when introduced in Trails FC). In Trails the 3rd, in a flashback sequence it is revealed that earlier in her life (so when she was even younger, about 8-9), she was sold to a brothel and was so traumatized by the sexual abuse she endured that she developed DID. It took an entire story arc for her to finally even begin to heal from that trauma.
So, they are sexualizing a child rape victim and selling merch of it.
Wtf is happening with the kiseki games? I guess it's time to stop putting them on a pedestal. I own Cold Steel 1 & 2 and the older games on the psp. I might stop trying to get the rest. Is Cold Steel 3 also this creepy?
I never put them on any pedestal myself, but the Trails in the Sky trilogy was genuinely good despite some milder problematic elements. Cold Steel was already fairly worse, but CS4 and Hajimaru are just on a whole other level.
Even in CS3 (the last one I played), which had myriad of issues, I didn't encounter things on the level I described (pedo stuff, ogling tits mini-game, turning a child rape victim into a pin-up).
I would strongly recommend anyone looking to get into this series to just stick to the Trails in the Sky games and pretend the rest doesn't exist.
Oh my god just when I thought it couldn't get worse...
This is a pre-order bonus for Hajimari:
What's so bad about this compared to the rest, you may ask? Well, first, she's probably no older than 15-16 here. But, if you've played Trails in the Sky the 3rd, you will immediately know why this is beyond fucked up.
This is Renne. She is a child in the earlier games (she's 10-11 when introduced in Trails FC). In Trails the 3rd, in a flashback sequence it is revealed that earlier in her life (so when she was even younger, about 8-9), she was sold to a brothel and was so traumatized by the sexual abuse she endured that she developed DID. It took an entire story arc for her to finally even begin to heal from that trauma.
So, they are sexualizing a child rape victim and selling merch of it.
This is the same as the shitshow with Drakengard 3 protagonist. Why some JRPG devs keep doing this about making female characters victims of sexual abuse and then doing fanservice shit with them is beyond me. Dumb fucks.
I didn't play very far in Ys 8, but the first female party member you get is wearing tight booty shorts and the camera keeps trying to worm its way into her ass.
Ys 8 was the "worst" for this stuff so far, but nothing in it was as gross as what I just talked about. Just typical obnoxious clichés like skimpy outfits on all the women, and the accidental disrobing gag with the woman being all embarrassed (and of course acting all angry at the guy for seeing her even though she accidentally disrobed herself because lol that's sooooo funny right), that sort of stuff.
I hate those type of games that make me think hard whether to get them or not. The effort of dealing with its awkwardness is so annoying. Thanks for the info though.
I never put them on any pedestal myself, but the Trails in the Sky trilogy was genuinely good despite some milder problematic elements. Cold Steel was already fairly worse, but CS4 and Hajimaru are just on a whole other level.
Even in CS3 (the last one I played), which had myriad of issues, I didn't encounter things on the level I described (pedo stuff, ogling tits mini-game, turning a child rape victim into a pin-up).
I would strongly recommend anyone looking to get into this series to just stick to the Trails in the Sky games and pretend the rest doesn't exist.
Bij putting them on a pedestal, I meant getting Falcom games without needing to make any research since I considered Falcom as the good ones when it comes to the quality of their games along with the lighter fanservice. That's no longer the case sadly.
The current discussion about JRPG is very relatable. JRPG is my favourite genre. Or so I thought. Lately I'm not so sure precisely because of these examples.
It went so far that I'm getting into WRPG lately. I'm kicking myself for not trying them sooner. It's not just the fanservice. Even if there is fanservice, the dialogues feel natural. That alone feels very refreshing. The Witcher 3 has been great.
I didn't play very far in Ys 8, but the first female party member you get is wearing tight booty shorts and the camera keeps trying to worm its way into her ass.
Ys 8 was the "worst" for this stuff so far, but nothing in it was as gross as what I just talked about. Just typical obnoxious clichés like skimpy outfits on all the women, and the accidental disrobing gag with the woman being all embarrassed (and of course acting all angry at the guy for seeing her even though she accidentally disrobed herself because lol that's sooooo funny right), that sort of stuff.
For AGES I thought the Ys VIII box art was nice, with a well designed main heroine. That white bit of cloth making up the front of her outfit was really stylish with the blue!
And then one day I realized it wasn't white material, it was her skin and she was basically naked. You let me down, Ys VIII.
The other poster (and myself, about the disrobing gag) was talking about Laxia, though. Ricotta is ehhh. An annoying character but she's not really sexualized (thankfully, because she's like, 12).
The other poster (and myself, about the disrobing gag) was talking about Laxia, though. Ricotta is ehhh. An annoying character but she's not really sexualized (thankfully, because she's like, 12).
The constant male chauvinism and objectification is one reason (the other being juvenile writing) I play much fewer JRPGs nowadays than I did in the 90s and early 2000s. The genre really seems to have been regressed. I mean compare the female characters in, say, Xenogears with the ones in the latest Xenoblade. And even if female characters aren't that obviously sexualized often enough they are still sexist archetypes. This year I played Persona 5 Royal from which I expected much and was seriously disappointed by the writing and the bland characters and Final Fantasy 7R, and while I guess both games tried to be better in regards to their female protagonists both ultimately fail. Are we just spoilt in the west with characters like Cassandra, Ellie, Reboot-Lara Croft or Aloy?
It all happened midway through the PS2 generation. There was a point around 2005-2006 where JRPGs took a HARD shift in the "KIDS ARE AWESOME, ALL ADULTS SUCK" direction for a few years, and then the PS3 crashing into a wall at full speed drove the JRPG genre onto handhelds, where developers were more free to (or in some cases had to) focus on niche demographics due to the lower required sales necessary for a game to be a success.
After two straight generations of the JRPG genre being almost entirely focused around the DS, PSP, 3DS and Vita, the few developers still supporting the genre have gone all in on supporting the obsessive, merch-happy male otaku demographic that supported them during the JRPG Dark Ages and don't care even a little bit about trying to widen their net now that the PS4, Switch and PC userbases are more than happy to buy their games.
The people making the games nowdays are making the kinds of games they want to play, and everyone who wants more mature, thoughtful JRPGs is shit out of luck. It sucks.
That whiplash from having watched I May Destroy You (a show that handles rape victimhood really well, I thought) and then coming in here to see discussion about how JRPGs handle it.
That whiplash from having watched I May Destroy You (a show that handles rape victimhood really well, I thought) and then coming in here to see discussion about how JRPGs handle it.
It all happened midway through the PS2 generation. There was a point around 2005-2006 where JRPGs took a HARD shift in the "KIDS ARE AWESOME, ALL ADULTS SUCK" direction for a few years, and then the PS3 crashing into a wall at full speed drove the JRPG genre onto handhelds, where developers were more free to (or in some cases had to) focus on niche demographics due to the lower required sales necessary for a game to be a success.
After two straight generations of the JRPG genre being almost entirely focused around the DS, PSP, 3DS and Vita, the few developers still supporting the genre have gone all in on supporting the obsessive, merch-happy male otaku demographic that supported them during the JRPG Dark Ages and don't care even a little bit about trying to widen their net now that the PS4, Switch and PC userbases are more than happy to buy their games.
The people making the games nowdays are making the kinds of games they want to play, and everyone who wants more mature, thoughtful JRPGs is shit out of luck. It sucks.
The PS3's launch being a disaster isn't what drove smaller JRPG developers to handhelds. It was only natural with the increasing development costs for HD consoles and the incredible sales of handhelds in Japan.
It all happened midway through the PS2 generation. There was a point around 2005-2006 where JRPGs took a HARD shift in the "KIDS ARE AWESOME, ALL ADULTS SUCK" direction for a few years, and then the PS3 crashing into a wall at full speed drove the JRPG genre onto handhelds, where developers were more free to (or in some cases had to) focus on niche demographics due to the lower required sales necessary for a game to be a success.
After two straight generations of the JRPG genre being almost entirely focused around the DS, PSP, 3DS and Vita, the few developers still supporting the genre have gone all in on supporting the obsessive, merch-happy male otaku demographic that supported them during the JRPG Dark Ages and don't care even a little bit about trying to widen their net now that the PS4, Switch and PC userbases are more than happy to buy their games.
The people making the games nowdays are making the kinds of games they want to play, and everyone who wants more mature, thoughtful JRPGs is shit out of luck. It sucks.
And the thing with those obsessive audiences is that they're fickle as hell, and will happily abandon you if you don't give them what they demand (but not without making a big social media stink about how awful you are)...
The PS3's launch being a disaster isn't what drove smaller JRPG developers to handhelds. It was only natural with the increasing development costs for HD consoles and the incredible sales of handhelds in Japan.
It wasn't the only cause, but it was definitely a contributing factor. If people were buying PS3 games in high enough numbers to justify the cost of development, the games would've come. But until FFXIII came out PS3 games were generally not doing well enough on their own for developers to deem the platform worth supporting. And after several years of virtually everything on the DS doing at least okay, there was very little motivation to change gears.
And the thing with those obsessive audiences is that they're fickle as hell, and will happily abandon you if you don't give them what they demand (but not without making a big social media stink about how awful you are)...
Pretty much. Once you've keyed into one of those niche audiences you basically have to keep giving them exactly what they want or that audience evaporates. It's a toxic relationship in capitalist form.
That whiplash from having watched I May Destroy You (a show that handles rape victimhood really well, I thought) and then coming in here to see discussion about how JRPGs handle it.
Wild ARMs 4 had pretty cool designs (and music) but man, the "CHILDREN ARE AMAZING, ALL ADULTS ARE EVIL" narrative nonsense was firing out of every orifice like a gatling gun. The only non-evil adult in the entire game was Gawn and he still betrayed the party like half a dozen times before he dropped dead.
One thing I cannot tell is whether that tuft of hair is supposed to be clothing or her fur. These have rather different implications about the character design.
Doll
It is not apparent in this picture, but I believe she has short heels. I think the gauntlets and greaves are her weapons, which is why she has no body armor. None of the characters wears body armor.
Raging Bull
They just had to put that nose ring there. -_-
I have not played the game, so I have no idea what the writing is like.
It is not apparent in this picture, but I believe she has short heels. I think the gauntlets and greaves are her weapons, which is why she has no body armor. None of the characters wears body armor.
"I'm a martial artist, but my hair is longer than I am tall! This totally won't get in the way or present an easy to exploit weakness that will get me killed! Nope."
