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Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,163
Buenos Aires, Argentina
At least the metal slug characters are still discernable despite different art styles. Like I can look at new Fio and tell who she is by her giant specs and beige cap.

Lol, you're not wrong. I couldn't find the original image but this the entire cast of metal slug xx.
metal_slug_xx_chars.png


Which in game, are still just small sprites.
latest

Wait is that Leona in Metal Slug

I had no idea
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
On topic though are there any straight dudes in this thread who like T&A but also agrees that it can degrade certain games? I must admit some of the stuff in this thread posted I like it because I'm dumb gorilla but I want more strong not-sexualised female characters in games too!

Something like Senran Kagura doesn't bother me but Xenoblade 2 being horny on main 100% time does. Because SK is a game intended for that T&A audience only but Xenoblade is trying to be a serious RPG with depth and mainstream appeal. The dudes are treated seriously and respectfully but the girls are dressed like strippers and nobody comments on it. There's so much cognitive dissonance and it's just plain disrespectful.
I agree with you in this.

I would take a more realistic badass look over a weird ass outfit with tons of strings, rips and belts just to show breasts and butts. I never liked this.

There are games that are designed to be erotic and stupid. I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is games that have some weird as hell sexualization out of nowhere and don't fit the game. The new Trails game for example has an example of such trash andd it just doesn't fit.

I guess to put it simply, if you want to make a game that wants to be "erotic" then do it but don't force it into games that would be better without them.
 

Lausebub

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,151
At least the metal slug characters are still discernable despite different art styles. Like I can look at new Fio and tell who she is by her giant specs.

Lol, you're not wrong. I couldn't find the original image but this the entire cast of metal slug xx.
metal_slug_xx_chars.png


Which in game, are still just small sprites.
latest

It feels like the men are out of a different game. There faces are over stylised, while the women look like sexy anime women, although they seem look better design to me then most of the stuff I see in here.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,658
So obviously don't want to fill the thread each time they add new skins, so likely last time unless an egregious skin gets added, but I was looking at 3 new skins in Warzone.

ui_loot_operator_west_mara_4_1.png
ui_loot_operator_west_domino_7_1.png
ui_loot_operator_west_charly_7_1.png


First one is going in the sillier route though not sexualized just... silly lol. (And yes, it comes with a katana).

3rd one is an Ripley (Aliens) reference.
 

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
I agree with you in this.

I would take a more realistic badass look over a weird ass outfit with tons of strings, rips and belts just to show breasts and butts. I never liked this.

There are games that are designed to be erotic and stupid. I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is games that have some weird as hell sexualization out of nowhere and don't fit the game. The new Trails game for example has an example of such trash andd it just doesn't fit.

I guess to put it simply, if you want to make a game that wants to be "erotic" then do it but don't force it into games that would be better without them.



It also has to do with the fact that now censorship laws are the extreme opposite between USA and Japan. Tlou2 recently was edited for violence in Japan, while here titillating sexualization is the main concern, for console games at least. Because on PC they opened a wholly different can of worms. Players are caught in the middle.
It is like saying to developers on both sides "look you can not do this but you are free to your hearts content to do that". So when Japanese companies want to export their titles or import foreign titles, they are caught in this mess. Same for foreign companies.
Now add also China where developers have to extra worry about regional politics.


Freedom of expression is harmed in both ways and it became a cluster fuck.

Also relevant

www.crunchyroll.com

Love Hina Manga Creator Discusses Manga's "Freedom of Expression" With Japanese Government

UQ HOLDER and Love Hina manga creator, Ken Akamatsu tweeted on June 29 that he'd recently been summoned by the Japanese National Government to discuss manga and how it can succeed in th
 

Vee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,554
Just need to add to cap off a Danganronpa 2 thought, I was kinda baffled to see how popular Chiaki is(well from western fans at least). I found her fine but DR2 endgame spoilers
finding out she was just an AI with a flawless good girl personality pretty much ruined the character for me. But I see the fanbase constantly puts her in S tiers when ranking the cast and I find her highly overrated and feel like people only like her as some gamer wife wish fulfillment. And the DR3 anime did no favors for the "real" Chiaki
 

Deleted member 4532

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,936
Just need to add to cap off a Danganronpa 2 thought, I was kinda baffled to see how popular Chiaki is(well from western fans at least). I found her fine but DR2 endgame spoilers
finding out she was just an AI with a flawless good girl personality pretty much ruined the character for me. But I see the fanbase constantly puts her in S tiers when ranking the cast and I find her highly overrated and feel like people only like her as some gamer wife wish fulfillment. And the DR3 anime did no favors for the "real" Chiaki
I always thought she was a mary sue and the typical flawless waifu that plays video games too!
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
301
So I've started playing Heavy Rain again (I know, I know...streaming it for friends though), and I'm having a really hard time dealing with how they handle the love interest, Madison. Every scene with her has the most uncomfortable male gaze, and that doesn't even go into the first time you play her where she has a nightmare that she's being attacked by masked men. The way they frame her attack is clearly exploitative (especially with her being brutalized while wearing nothing but underwear). But I almost get this feeling that if I bring up how uncomfortable I am with it at all anywhere, I'll end up being dogpiled by guys thinking I'm being too sensitive. I really, really, REALLY want to write a review of it when I'm done and point out these issues I'm having, but then I'm scared I'm going to invite a posse of guys telling me I'm wrong for how I feel. Ugh...

I'm kinda getting the same vibe from Silent Hill 4 (which I'm also playing again now) where you're forced to peep in on Eileen from your apartment. It's needlessly voyeuristic, but maybe the devs were hoping people would be uncomfortable with it. Though, you know that's not how things are going to pan out with most players. ::sigh::

That doesn't stop me from feeling like I shouldn't be this upset over fictional women, but here I am, wringing my hands over it.
 
Last edited:

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,879
So I've started playing Heavy Rain again (I know, I know...streaming it for friends though), and I'm having a really hard time dealing with how they handle the love interest, Madison. Every scene with her has the most uncomfortable male gaze, and that doesn't even go into the first time you play her where she has a nightmare that she's being attacked by masked men. The way they frame her attack is clearly exploitative (especially with her being brutalized while wearing nothing but underwear). But I almost get this feeling that if I bring up how uncomfortable I am with it all anywhere, I'll end up being dogpiled buy guys thinking I'm being too sensitive. I really, really, REALLY want to write a review of it when I'm done and point out these issues I'm having, but then I'm scared I'm going to invite a posse of guys telling me I'm wrong for how I feel. Ugh...

I'm kinda getting the same vibe from Silent Hill 4 (which I'm also playing again now) where you're forced to peep in on Eileen from your apartment. It's needlessly voyeuristic, but maybe the devs were hoping people would be uncomfortable with it. Though, you know that's not how things are going to pan out with most players. ::sigh::
I'd like to read that review! I wonder if it would be safer to write it now because it's so old. Maybe also because it's not an anime game? So many creeps play anime games just for the leering at women, so when that aspect is criticized they rush to a furious defence. They aren't the types who play "Art" games. And since that was supposed to be an Art game maybe the people who care about it would be more receptive to having it criticized.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
So I've started playing Heavy Rain again (I know, I know...streaming it for friends though), and I'm having a really hard time dealing with how they handle the love interest, Madison. Every scene with her has the most uncomfortable male gaze, and that doesn't even go into the first time you play her where she has a nightmare that she's being attacked by masked men. The way they frame her attack is clearly exploitative (especially with her being brutalized while wearing nothing but underwear). But I almost get this feeling that if I bring up how uncomfortable I am with it all anywhere, I'll end up being dogpiled buy guys thinking I'm being too sensitive. I really, really, REALLY want to write a review of it when I'm done and point out these issues I'm having, but then I'm scared I'm going to invite a posse of guys telling me I'm wrong for how I feel. Ugh...

I'm kinda getting the same vibe from Silent Hill 4 (which I'm also playing again now) where you're forced to peep in on Eileen from your apartment. It's needlessly voyeuristic, but maybe the devs were hoping people would be uncomfortable with it. Though, you know that's not how things are going to pan out with most players. ::sigh::
Considering how a lot of people feel about Quantic Dream's work in general, I feel as though Heavy Rain, Beyond, and Detroit are some of the few games that people who normally rush to defend creepy sexism in games would just not defend them or would agree solely because of how they feel about David Cage. Please feel free to share your review in here if you decide to do one!
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
301
Thanks. I think I'll probably go ahead and do it. I have all of these thoughts rolling around in my head right now, and I know I won't be able to rest until I get them down on paper. And I think this is a perspective that needs to be addressed that I haven't really seen discussed anywhere when it comes to this game (though I admittedly didn't read many reviews when it was first released).
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,564
I would read a review if you did one. The Quantic Dream games have a lot of issues in that regard.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,859
So I've started playing Heavy Rain again (I know, I know...streaming it for friends though), and I'm having a really hard time dealing with how they handle the love interest, Madison. Every scene with her has the most uncomfortable male gaze, and that doesn't even go into the first time you play her where she has a nightmare that she's being attacked by masked men. The way they frame her attack is clearly exploitative (especially with her being brutalized while wearing nothing but underwear). But I almost get this feeling that if I bring up how uncomfortable I am with it at all anywhere, I'll end up being dogpiled by guys thinking I'm being too sensitive. I really, really, REALLY want to write a review of it when I'm done and point out these issues I'm having, but then I'm scared I'm going to invite a posse of guys telling me I'm wrong for how I feel. Ugh...

I'm kinda getting the same vibe from Silent Hill 4 (which I'm also playing again now) where you're forced to peep in on Eileen from your apartment. It's needlessly voyeuristic, but maybe the devs were hoping people would be uncomfortable with it. Though, you know that's not how things are going to pan out with most players. ::sigh::

That doesn't stop me from feeling like I shouldn't be this upset over fictional women, but here I am, wringing my hands over it.

Oh boy, Heavy Rain...

I want to say about 90% of Madison's scenes are her either getting into dangerous situations or being Ethan's nurse. She has the highest amount of potential death scenes and doesn't really get the same opportunity of 'down time' in between dealing with Ethan or potential death.
Madison is also the only main character who had a separate body model and voice actor, so make of that what you will.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
301
Oh boy, Heavy Rain...

I want to say about 90% of Madison's scenes are her either getting into dangerous situations or being Ethan's nurse. She has the highest amount of potential death scenes and doesn't really get the same opportunity of 'down time' in between dealing with Ethan or potential death.
Madison is also the only main character who had a separate body model and voice actor, so make of that what you will.

Oof...oof...

There are so many issues with this game, including how contrived every plot point is, and that not a single character does the logical thing given their situations, but the way the game treats their women (not even just Madison) is killing me right now.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,859
Oof...oof...

There are so many issues with this game, including how contrived every plot point is, and that not a single character does the logical thing given their situations, but the way the game treats their women (not even just Madison) is killing me right now.

How Madison was introduced really set the tone for her scenes. Honestly it feels like Madison is inconsequential for most of the game, except for a few key scenes.
 

Retromess

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,039
The Madison stuff in Heavy Rain always makes me think of an old podcast from before the game even came out.

The host mentions the devs basically joking about "Oh no you better watch out you don't want to get r*ped!" referring to the scene in which Madison sorta infiltrates Paco's (I think that's his name) mansion, and she has to dance for the guy.

That game is a mess in a lot of ways and the Madison stuff is chief among them, IMO.
 

KujoJosuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,781
David Cage games always treat the women characters awfully.

Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit has a "joke" sequence where the female lead is dancing with Cage wearing only a tank top and panties.

Didn't one of them have a nude model based on the actress without her permission?
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,355
David Cage, his games, and misogyny, have a long and storied relationship
 

Vee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,554
One thing I think is funny about TLOU2:
Spoilers for TLOU2
Is how these gamers cannot handle Joels death and I guess mainly because he's killed by a woman? It's just funny how many female characters are killed to motivate a story for a male character but the moment it happens the other way around its egregious. I bet if Joel had like a heroic sacrifice killing 20 bad guys unarmed and jumping on a bomb after giving a motivational line to ellie none of these dudes would have a problem.

And the above reminded me of a point of Dangan Ronpa V3 I have to add in:

Spoilers for DRV3 up to chap 6
Kaedes death is super gruesome versus Kaito who gets the cool heroic and noble "in your face!" kinda death
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,742
David Cage has always sucked and I will die on this hill.
Cage is a man who
fetishized the home invasion, beating, sexual assault, and violation of a woman in Heavy Rain. In Indigo Prophecy, the female lead becomes submissive and weak when she meets the male lead. In Omikron, a characters wife is tricked into being a sex object for the player. In Omikron and Indigo Prophecy. Asian characters are given voices I can only described as 'buck-toothed'. In Beyond Two Souls, the Native American family are wise sages in tune with nature. In Heavy Rain, the only black character is a thuggish ex con who attacks the white cop.

He's trash.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,681
One thing I think is funny about TLOU2:
Spoilers for TLOU2
Is how these gamers cannot handle Joels death and I guess mainly because he's killed by a woman? It's just funny how many female characters are killed to motivate a story for a male character but the moment it happens the other way around its egregious. I bet if Joel had like a heroic sacrifice killing 20 bad guys unarmed and jumping on a bomb after giving a motivational line to ellie none of these dudes would have a problem.
people wanted the game to be Dina getting killed (bury your gays...of course), and then a revenge joel and ellie adventure with a blaze of glory sacrifice at the end to save the day and says "never forget me, baby girl"

Gamers
 

Deleted member 66837

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 24, 2020
1,650
people wanted the game to be Dina getting killed (bury your gays...of course), and then a revenge joel and ellie adventure with a blaze of glory sacrifice at the end to save the day and says "never forget me, baby girl"

Gamers
Yup they'll cry Abby being buff isn't realistic but anything realistic happening to men is all of a sudden where they put their foot down
 

Vee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,554
people wanted the game to be Dina getting killed (bury your gays...of course), and then a revenge joel and ellie adventure with a blaze of glory sacrifice at the end to save the day and says "never forget me, baby girl"

Gamers
That's soooooo fucking boring. Its sad that just writing Joel as fucking rambo would be all it takes to impress these people. These are the same ppl that wanted Luke to do some DBZ level feats in the Last Jedi.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,681
That's soooooo fucking boring. Its sad that just writing Joel as fucking rambo would be all it takes to impress these people. These are the same ppl that wanted Luke to do some DBZ level feats in the Last Jedi.
Yep. I have even seen tons of those comments saying they know its predictable and a rehash, but still "badass" and better than "this fanfic cuck garbage".

But then people also whine at CoD, madden, ass creed, etc for coming out every year and rehashing.

Gamers....
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,681
Yup they'll cry Abby being buff isn't realistic but anything realistic happening to men is all of a sudden where they put their foot down
Yea
I bet those same people didn't say shit when Joel got fucking impaled in the first game and was like that for at least a few days and survived. Bur a pole is still more "badass" than a strong buff woman.
 

Deleted member 66837

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 24, 2020
1,650
Yea
I bet those same people didn't say shit when Joel got fucking impaled in the first game and was like that for at least a few days and survived. Bur a pole is still more "badass" than a strong buff woman.
Gamers 101 "anything but a woman"

Also can buff woman be normalized especially when they're fighters (looking at you Tifa)
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,918
One thing I think is funny about TLOU2:
Spoilers for TLOU2
Is how these gamers cannot handle Joels death and I guess mainly because he's killed by a woman? It's just funny how many female characters are killed to motivate a story for a male character but the moment it happens the other way around its egregious. I bet if Joel had like a heroic sacrifice killing 20 bad guys unarmed and jumping on a bomb after giving a motivational line to ellie none of these dudes would have a problem.

And the above reminded me of a point of Dangan Ronpa V3 I have to add in:

Spoilers for DRV3 up to chap 6
Kaedes death is super gruesome versus Kaito who gets the cool heroic and noble "in your face!" kinda death
Kirumi got a fucked up death as well
Regarding TLOU2:
The idiot degenerate male part of the fanbase couldn't handle seeing Joel getting killed by a beautiful buff woman. Also couldn't compute that a woman doesn't need massive tits to be beautiful. Fuck those people.
 
Oct 30, 2018
70
Regarding TLOU2:
The idiot degenerate male part of the fanbase couldn't handle seeing Joel getting killed by a beautiful buff woman. Also couldn't compute that a woman doesn't need massive tits to be beautiful. Fuck those people.
I loved the game, think the killing of Joel was genius and Abby is a great character but I don't find her the least bit attractive with such a bulky broad frame and strong jawline.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,918
I loved the game, think the killing of Joel was genius and Abby is a great character but I don't find her the least bit attractive with such a bulky broad frame and strong jawline.
She's not "traditionally" attractive, but I think she's attractive. She has gorgeous eyes, I love her hair and I like her personality. She seems like a very good equal rights partner. Also younger Abby is quite cute.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,351
On topic though are there any straight dudes in this thread who like T&A but also agrees that it can degrade certain games? I must admit some of the stuff in this thread posted I like it because I'm dumb gorilla but I want more strong not-sexualised female characters in games too!

Something like Senran Kagura doesn't bother me but Xenoblade 2 being horny on main 100% time does. Because SK is a game intended for that T&A audience only but Xenoblade is trying to be a serious RPG with depth and mainstream appeal. The dudes are treated seriously and respectfully but the girls are dressed like strippers and nobody comments on it. There's so much cognitive dissonance and it's just plain disrespectful.

I think there's a line where it goes from "yeah sure, nothing wrong with some titillation" to making me uncomfortable because it's so gratuitous.

For example, Quiet in MGSV pole vaulted over this line for me. Not just the costume and the stupid justification for it, but I vividly remember that if you brought her in the helicopter she would have these animations where she was basically showing her ass to you, in a way not dissimilar to an animal "presenting itself" for mating. It made me feel gross every time.
 

Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,459
I loved the game, think the killing of Joel was genius and Abby is a great character but I don't find her the least bit attractive with such a bulky broad frame and strong jawline.

She can kill me with a golf club anytime ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Really though, Abby's not that nontraditional in her attractiveness. But media distortion and all that.....
 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,449
New York
I loved the game, think the killing of Joel was genius and Abby is a great character but I don't find her the least bit attractive with such a bulky broad frame and strong jawline.
That's a really bizarre statement to want to get out there... Another poster mentions that Abby is attractive, but because you personally don't find her attractive, she's not attractive?
...I doubt that needed to be wrapped in spoilers, but better safe than sorry, I guess...
 
Oct 30, 2018
70
I think there's a line where it goes from "yeah sure, nothing wrong with some titillation" to making me uncomfortable because it's so gratuitous.

For example, Quiet in MGSV pole vaulted over this line for me. Not just the costume and the stupid justification for it, but I vividly remember that if you brought her in the helicopter she would have these animations where she was basically showing her ass to you, in a way not dissimilar to an animal "presenting itself" for mating. It made me feel gross every time.
I don't mind super sexy, scantily clad and flirtatious behavior as long as it's done in earnest. Just let the character say that they are proud of their looks and like to show off. It's when the story uses naive contrived excuses it just becomes a cringe fest.
 
Oct 30, 2018
70
That's a really bizarre statement to want to get out there... Another poster mentions that Abby is attractive, but because you personally don't find her attractive, she's not attractive?
...I doubt that needed to be wrapped in spoilers, but better safe than sorry, I guess...
The earlier post I answered had the story part in spoiler as well so I followed suit.
 
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