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Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Blunders like this stick out like a sore thumb since the game has an otherwise excellent track record with female characters, at least by Japanese standards. Viera being not only gender locked but promoted while wearing stripper gear by default in marketing material was a low point for the FFXIV brand, and the situation with Ryne does not help one bit to alleviate concerns about the direction the game is currently heading in. There's also been some more notable discrepancies between male and female armour slowly creeping into the game, like how the female DNC AF gear is somehow missing its pants.

I do hope they realise who's actually playing this game, and who will keep playing it for years to come.

Slowly? that shit was day one in there, don't you remember Bard or Dragoon AFs? Miqo'te regular outfit?

FFXIV looked better than the competition in that regard only because MMOs are the main genre of trashy female designs, but it always had it's issues.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,857
Slowly? that shit was day one in there, don't you remember Bard or Dragoon AFs? Miqo'te regular outfit?

I should probably have said "... slowly creeeping back into the game". There were some issues with female armour in the base game, even if most of the time everything felt pretty neutral. It got better though. Until Shadowbringers. At least that's my impression.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I'm playing a lot of Streets of Rage 4 at the moment. What do people think of Estel? I quite like her design and cocky attitude (she's a boss character).

iLqRyj.png
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
I'm playing a lot of Streets of Rage 4 at the moment. What do people think of Estel? I quite like her design and cocky attitude (she's a boss character).

iLqRyj.png
I love her. She is an instant classic character.
The moment I saw artworks of her I fell in love with her character. She needs to be a playable character as fast as possible.

More female characters in games like her would be great.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
She needs to be in DLC pack 1 so I can give them my money day 1. The fact they gave her
the police car action from the first SOR was brilliant
Yeah I had a big grin on my face for that!
Why does Wood Oak City PD even have mortars stuffed in the trunks of it's cars lol
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,363
For those that haven't checked them out yet, go see Bikiniarmorbattledamage out on Tumblr. They make great content. Like, for example, these sexualized redesigns of men in Soul Caliber to show the inequality between the gender designs.


17f012750069c59ea26a8b28a2a2d23baaf24c56.jpg

1f8dc4e03e584175175c3cec66a9c7db02537d56.pnj

73372d0344ac41d588e591df0822caee118e8bf4.pnj
People sometimes forget how so many designs of women emphasize the sexual parts, not just showing skin. This would be the gender flipped equivalent. Notice the detailed outline of his, ahem, junk.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
I'd like to see a game, an rpg where you play as a party of characters, that allows you to dress the characters in different outfits but with a twist. You can't dress individual party members, you can only change the costuming of the entire party. Want to dress a female party member in bikini armor? Now the entire party, including the men, is wearing bikini armor. I wonder what the reactions would be...
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,031
I'd think such a setup depending on tone could just disarm any horny gaze (see saints row 3/4) and thus any complaints
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,385
lol he he even has high heels

I find the full armoured version more attractive :\ Those dumb "sexy" armours are just too stupid looking to be hot, tbh.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
I'd think such a setup depending on tone could just disarm any horny gaze (see saints row 3/4) and thus any complaints
I think it's dependent on the crowd. You know what you're in for with Saints row and it's meant to be funny. Put it in a "take me seriously" JRPG and play the sexualization straight and you'll probably get complaints from the usual suspects. Either that or dead silence assuming self awareness kicks in.
 
For those that haven't checked them out yet, go see Bikiniarmorbattledamage out on Tumblr. They make great content. Like, for example, these sexualized redesigns of men in Soul Caliber to show the inequality between the gender designs.


17f012750069c59ea26a8b28a2a2d23baaf24c56.jpg

1f8dc4e03e584175175c3cec66a9c7db02537d56.pnj

73372d0344ac41d588e591df0822caee118e8bf4.pnj
People sometimes forget how so many designs of women emphasize the sexual parts, not just showing skin. This would be the gender flipped equivalent. Notice the detailed outline of his, ahem, junk.
Lol, that's awesome! Reminds me of that hilarious pic of Venom Snake in Quiet's outfit.
I'm still waiting for my DMC5 mod that gives Dante Trish's clothes and Nico's hair.
 

Jotakori

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,184
For those that haven't checked them out yet, go see Bikiniarmorbattledamage out on Tumblr. They make great content. Like, for example, these sexualized redesigns of men in Soul Caliber to show the inequality between the gender designs.


17f012750069c59ea26a8b28a2a2d23baaf24c56.jpg

1f8dc4e03e584175175c3cec66a9c7db02537d56.pnj

73372d0344ac41d588e591df0822caee118e8bf4.pnj
People sometimes forget how so many designs of women emphasize the sexual parts, not just showing skin. This would be the gender flipped equivalent. Notice the detailed outline of his, ahem, junk.
This is amazing lol. God, every day I wish with my entire thirsty little heart that a game like this would be made. Bonus if all the women in it are dressed like men usually are, too. It'd be my literal gaming dream! Pandering to both my baser instincts and desire to see women treated like people instead of 'sexy' objects!
Sigh... (straight) men are so fkn lucky.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,363
This is amazing lol. God, every day I wish with my entire thirsty little heart that a game like this would be made. Bonus if all the women in it are dressed like men usually are, too. It'd be my literal gaming dream! Pandering to both my baser instincts and desire to see women treated like people instead of 'sexy' objects!
Sigh... (straight) men are so fkn lucky.
I don't know about games, but twitter account Magic Meat March showcases this type of art.

Some of the art is done for thirst, and others are meant to satirize sexualized outfits. The art does nothing for a straight guy like me, but it's at least interesting to see sexualized designs meant for women.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,385
Also that pic above isn't NSFW. If women in the same state of undress are posted as "normal" then so should dudes. Hell, it's even TAME by "JRPG female outfit" standards...

I don't know about games, but twitter account Magic Meat March showcases this type of art.

Some of the art is done for thirst, and others are meant to satirize sexualized outfits. The art does nothing for a straight guy like me, but it's at least interesting to see sexualized designs meant for women.
I'm as straight as they come and none of these designs do anything for me. They look stupid and goofy and honestly, often just look plain... ugly? Like the above art, I'm indifferent but at least it's not completely grotesque, whereas most of those honestly look repulsive to me... I sincerely hope these are all parodies. Gods, my eyes...
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,363
Also that pic above isn't NSFW. If women in the same state of undress are posted as "normal" then so should dudes. Hell, it's even TAME by "JRPG female outfit" standards...


I'm as straight as they come and none of these designs do anything for me. They look stupid and goofy and honestly, often just look plain... ugly? Like the above art, I'm indifferent but at least it's not completely grotesque, whereas most of those honestly look repulsive to me... I sincerely hope these are all parodies. Gods, my eyes...
The genitalia outline is why I put the NSFW tag up. The rest of it is tame yes, but I didn't know whether you or another mod might have a problem with that specific part so I erred on the side of caution.

And yeah women aren't a monolith, despite what mainstream culture believes. Everyone has different tastes and the above art won't do much for many women. I'm not attracted to the "cute" mannerisms that the women in FFVIIR do cause I find it way too over the top to the point of being just creepy. Probably the same way you view the above art as absurd.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Also that pic above isn't NSFW. If women in the same state of undress are posted as "normal" then so should dudes. Hell, it's even TAME by "JRPG female outfit" standards...


I'm as straight as they come and none of these designs do anything for me. They look stupid and goofy and honestly, often just look plain... ugly? Like the above art, I'm indifferent but at least it's not completely grotesque, whereas most of those honestly look repulsive to me... I sincerely hope these are all parodies. Gods, my eyes...
I'm pretty sure the reason men want bikini armor doesn't have anything to do with attraction. It's the "idea" that they're sexual and available, not that they're relatable. Their attire is literally an absurdity designed as such to rob them of agency. Visual novels that sell sexualized characters simply take this to their logical extreme, where, despite women having sex with men, the men themselves are visually indistinct (their faces or blurred, removed, or simply always shot outside the frame), to promote, despite another character having sex with them, that it could be "them" (the viewer) having sex. The aesthetic relates not to how relatable they are or attractiveness, but the sexual body, robbed of agency. It's the objectification and reselling of that idea, in a visual medium.

The problem with "sexualized men" is that there are many missing factors; historical, rhetorical, and learned behaviors that simply do not apply to the male body in the same way they apply to the female body. Mirroring the aesthetic does not mirror the intent behind it.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,571
I think it's dependent on the crowd. You know what you're in for with Saints row and it's meant to be funny. Put it in a "take me seriously" JRPG and play the sexualization straight and you'll probably get complaints from the usual suspects. Either that or dead silence assuming self awareness kicks in.
They tried to do that a bit once with a character for Mobius FF and then ended up changing it after complaints. Can't even handle it one time in the reverse situation.

jpg
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,185
Yeah you can't really just slap a skimpy outfit on a guy and call it equal. The way women have been sexualized typically through objectification and robbing of agency feeds into patriarchal ideas of womanhood. The way sexual fantasies are engaged with for men (with women as well as other men/non-binary people) is not going to be 1:1.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
They tried to do that a bit once with a character for Mobius FF and then ended up changing it after complaints. Can't even handle it one time in the reverse situation.

jpg
That example pretty much what I had in mind when I mused above. It's also why I said it would be in a game where you can change characters' outfits. Imagine the terrible choice, put the ladies in bikinis and suddenly all the men are wearing banana slings. Oh the conundrum, which urge will win out, the desire to see tiddies or the aversion to male bodies on sexual display. Boner or boner killers. Maybe they'll just choose the sensible outfits and avoid the agony.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,197
They tried to do that a bit once with a character for Mobius FF and then ended up changing it after complaints. Can't even handle it one time in the reverse situation.

jpg
Always hate the assholes who scream "censorship" when a female character dress gets changed yet you hear nothing from the when it happens to a male character
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
That example pretty much what I had in mind when I mused above. It's also why I said it would be in a game where you can change characters' outfits. Imagine the terrible choice, put the ladies in bikinis and suddenly all the men are wearing banana slings. Oh the conundrum, which urge will win out, the desire to see tiddies or the aversion to male bodies on sexual display. Boner or boner killers. Maybe they'll just choose the sensible outfits and avoid the agony.
Even if this happened, it wouldn't be in a way that actually emasculates the men meaningfully (because it's very difficult to disenfranchise the "default"). Sort of the inherent problem with doing the mirroring thing. Of course, people will inevitably misconstrue it for being serious rather than a commentary on what women have to deal with all the time.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
Even if this happened, it wouldn't be in a way that actually emasculates the men meaningfully (because it's very difficult to disenfranchise the "default"). Sort of the inherent problem with doing the mirroring thing. Of course, people will inevitably misconstrue it for being serious rather than a commentary on what women have to deal with all the time.

Well, that's not really my aim. I was simply imagining what the reaction of people playing my hypothetical game might be. You're trying to dig too deeply into it. It was never meant as an attempt to create some sort of exploitation equilibrium.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Well, that's not really my aim. I was simply imagining what the reaction of people playing my hypothetical game might be. You're trying to dig too deeply into it. It was never meant as an attempt to create some sort of exploitation equilibrium.
I don't think you are either. I think that's what it would get misconstrued as though, at least by those who are being disingenuous about it and have every intention of twisting it into something it's not.
 
Jan 16, 2018
425
Hope's Peak Academy
Visual novels that sell sexualized characters simply take this to their logical extreme, where, despite women having sex with men, the men themselves are visually indistinct (their faces or blurred, removed, or simply always shot outside the frame),
You do remind me that the typical Hentai/VN make design is usually dark skinned or white, faceless besides nose and mouth and with plain clothing. Has there ever been a faceless female?
 

Derpot

Member
Nov 18, 2017
483
France
You do remind me that the typical Hentai/VN make design is usually dark skinned or white, faceless besides nose and mouth and with plain clothing. Has there ever been a faceless female?

Hm I can only think of the Mystic Messenger main character, I've never played the game myself though, just saw pictures.
I don't play VN but know some of them, and it's true that most of the time the female MC has her own design and is rarely faceless compared to VNs in which you play a male MC.

Actually, that reminds me of something I noticed in FE: Three Houses, in the S-support pictures. Female Byleth's face appears in most of these pictures, whereas Male Byleth's face is rarely shown. It's mostly either his back or his point of view.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
In addition to that, there's also the sexualized framing of women, which has a lot more to do with where the camera is forcing the player to look. Full-body pan shots tend to be on the more egregious side (and the more egregious of those are when they're focused on particular body parts). Those, to me at least, tend to scream, "look at this body!" rather than, "look at this character."

Probably well-known to most here though. VNs just seem to be particularly bad about it - though it's also in almost every modern jRPG as well. For as bad as the mannerisms are in modern FFs of female characters, I honestly find the framing to be what really irks me.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,178
Not sure why I expected different from PSO2, but good lord.

Male Robots! LOOK HOW COOL! I'm guessing the female robots will just have a slimmer body and vaguely-boob-shaped chests like Arcee from Transformers?
eojEktF.jpg



Oh god DAMMIT
EYDmtwa.jpg
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,197
lol, is like that dumb anime where the male students are anthropomorphic animals yet the female students are humans with animal ears and tails
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
I played a bit of PSO2 a week or so ago and did not like how the default outfits for the female human characters (did not look at the other races) kinda all looked not ready for combat.
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
Not sure why I expected different from PSO2, but good lord.

Male Robots! LOOK HOW COOL! I'm guessing the female robots will just have a slimmer body and vaguely-boob-shaped chests like Arcee from Transformers?
eojEktF.jpg



Oh god DAMMIT
EYDmtwa.jpg

I held out hope that there'd at least be chance to have a single mecha choice for the ladies hidden in customization because less assets less work more choices (which I know is a bit of a massive assumption on the realities of dev work) but... nope.

EDIT: And the other races are preettttyy much just what you'd expect.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,598
Phantasy Star Online 2 is a pretty horny game. It's tonally a lot different than the original PSO. Whereas the first PSO is more of a hard sci-fi mystery wrapped in a loot game, PSO 2 indulges in modern Japanese media including idols, over the top action, and current anime aesthetics. I'm sure the game has a lot of what PSO fans are looking for but keep in mind that it's not a direct sequel to PSO 1, both in story and in tone.
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,036
In addition to that, there's also the sexualized framing of women, which has a lot more to do with where the camera is forcing the player to look. Full-body pan shots tend to be on the more egregious side (and the more egregious of those are when they're focused on particular body parts). Those, to me at least, tend to scream, "look at this body!" rather than, "look at this character."

Probably well-known to most here though. VNs just seem to be particularly bad about it - though it's also in almost every modern jRPG as well. For as bad as the mannerisms are in modern FFs of female characters, I honestly find the framing to be what really irks me.
My first thought was the recent Trails/Ys games do this upon introducing a character. It's creepy for sure.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
Phantasy Star Online 2 is a pretty horny game. It's tonally a lot different than the original PSO. Whereas the first PSO is more of a hard sci-fi mystery wrapped in a loot game, PSO 2 indulges in modern Japanese media including idols, over the top action, and current anime aesthetics. I'm sure the game has a lot of what PSO fans are looking for but keep in mind that it's not a direct sequel to PSO 1, both in story and in tone.

Yep, thank you. Both games really don't share much in common but their name. To start with, this plays more like a sequel to Phantasy Star Universe.

EDIT: I totally thought I wrote this in the PSO2 thread, or I wouldn't even have talked about something tripe like gameplay. PSO2 is a disgraceful game built on the objectifcation of women. I am still retired from this thread!
 
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crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,178
Phantasy Star Online 2 is a pretty horny game. It's tonally a lot different than the original PSO. Whereas the first PSO is more of a hard sci-fi mystery wrapped in a loot game, PSO 2 indulges in modern Japanese media including idols, over the top action, and current anime aesthetics. I'm sure the game has a lot of what PSO fans are looking for but keep in mind that it's not a direct sequel to PSO 1, both in story and in tone.

I'm wondering if it's even worth playing as someone with zero knowledge of Phantasy Star things.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,036
I'm wondering if it's even worth playing as someone with zero knowledge of Phantasy Star things.
In my opinion it is, if what you're worried about is the lore aspect. The core games (Phantasy Star I, II, III, and IV) stand apart from their slew of spin-offs. Phantasy Star has kind of become a setting, atmosphere, soundtrack, etcetera... instead of a continuous story. Which is fine, they ended the story well in IV. If you dig Fantasy Science as a genre, it is worth checking out. And if you decide to go back and play the retro games, so much the better.

I'm pecking at it here and there but the objectification is so bad that I couldn't get out of the character creation tool without annoying all my friends with my complaints. At least the tools let you make some different body shapes for the feminine characters, instead of having the usual hilarious stick figure women with watermelon sized breasts and butt.
 

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
1,003
You do remind me that the typical Hentai/VN make design is usually dark skinned or white, faceless besides nose and mouth and with plain clothing. Has there ever been a faceless female?

Yeah it's a object of great debate for ppl who self-insert vs prefer actual defined MC personality for otome. I find it creepy in CGs if MC is faceless or promo art like clearly that's a ghost and this is horror. Some games go further and just have the LI alone in CGs where the MC is just outside of the photo lol.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,598
For reference, here's the end credits for the PSO2 anime



I actually haven't played PSO2 yet but I have watched a quite of the gameplay on Youtube. And I've seen the entire anime. But the anime is based on characters from the game so the character's you see in the video are some of the designs you can expect to see.
 
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