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Jun 22, 2019
3,660
Adding the same artist's work from SMT Devil Survivor (and you can tell it's the same artist, because the eyes are kinda psycho and the tits cannot be controlled)

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EDIT: cuz lol
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Oh god the anti-gravity tits guy.

I actually don't mind how his faces look, but the way he draws bodies is so bad.
 

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,571
Anti gravity tits would be an accurate way to describe Code Vein as well.

I mean take Io for example: DD cup size, no bra, and yet her boobs stand straight out with no sag despite being so unsupported as to jiggle in a breeze.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,276
Oh god the anti-gravity tits guy.

I actually don't mind how his faces look, but the way he draws bodies is so bad.
I dunno. I think he could be a good artist but his style hasn't evolved at all in decades. Even if you go back to his oldest work, it all pretty much looks the same as his most recent art, and all the flaws he had that were bad then are still just as bad now. That includes the rampant sexualization and never being able to draw a woman that was compelling. To be honest it looks like he's given up and is just like most artists in games; doing work for a paycheck. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that the industry is frequently that kind of grind. It's also why a lot of the more talented artists who used to work in video games left. One of the more elucidating comments Yoshitaka Amano once made about working in the industry, was, while watching a mentor of his draw, he said, "I'll never be able to do that, so I need to figure out what I can do." I think, after watching a lot of those GDC videos about game art, that's not really what the industry is interested in (and to be honest, I'm not sure it ever has been).

With the current state of Japanese game art, I am pretty convinced that Miyazaki was right and that people are drawing from the wrong sources - namely, other fiction, and not reality. It's given rise characters that look more like absurdist comedies of human bodies, rather than something resembling a real person. And game art, just as any other art, no matter how stylized, if it is telling a story about human characters, without a compelling narrative context, only laziness or willful ignorance would explain the extreme dive in the quality of Japanese game art.
 
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Hakunon

Member
Oct 11, 2018
311
Devil Survivor is one of my favorite games but yeah the designs of the female characters were always garbage and the artist isn't developing at all. The designs in Digimon Cyber Sleuth were also by him and they felt... redundant.

Not to be off-topic but an upcoming anime with its character designs by Yoshitaka Amano caught my attention. I still see people who lament his lack of involvement with FF's recent designs but I think he would still be swayed by the general trends. That outfit (starts at 1:25) doesn't go with the apocalyptic setting at all (the Jill argument again).

 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,301
Some of the female character designs can be bad. And these are just the human designs.
.......

Why are you showing me Persona characters? :x
Adding the same artist's work from SMT Devil Survivor (and you can tell it's the same artist, because the eyes are kinda psycho and the tits cannot be controlled)

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9b90cda047e167cf635c0820cd246fda50a27631_hq.jpg
Vacuum sealed and suspended in air.

Truly the latest in breast technology.
 

Kenstar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,887
Earth
Futaba's a shut-in in Persona 5 for years
Your team helps her out with her mental problems via magic
then less than a month later after not leaving her room for years she's out in public, still gets anxiety when many people are around
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but dresses like more like a fashionable rebel than the rest of our fashionable rebel mc's do

I knew what she looked like before i played the game but now that i know the background it doesn't mesh with someone trying to get used to society again for the first time
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,841
I am bothered by FF7 Remake's assumption that all players are straight males. It puts the women characters at the forefront, but mainly because they want this assumed player to fall in love with them.
 

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
984
Futaba's a shut-in in Persona 5 for years
Your team helps her out with her mental problems via magic
then less than a month later after not leaving her room for years she's out in public, still gets anxiety when many people are around
latest


but dresses like more like a fashionable rebel than the rest of our fashionable rebel mc's do

I knew what she looked like before i played the game but now that i know the background it doesn't mesh with someone trying to get used to society again for the first time

I admit I have P5 a pass on their casual clothing since I guess recluses can be fashionable too? There's a lot of other problems w/Futuba's SL so I zoned out on this aspect despite it being odd.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,585
Futaba's a shut-in in Persona 5 for years
Your team helps her out with her mental problems via magic
then less than a month later after not leaving her room for years she's out in public, still gets anxiety when many people are around
latest


but dresses like more like a fashionable rebel than the rest of our fashionable rebel mc's do

I knew what she looked like before i played the game but now that i know the background it doesn't mesh with someone trying to get used to society again for the first time

Some of the most anti-social people I know have the most expensive or fashionable clothes. I don't think it's fair to assume that because someone is reclusive, that means they must dress like a slob nor do they not want to express themselves through their appearance.
 

Kenstar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,887
Earth
I admit I have P5 a pass on their casual clothing since I guess recluses can be fashionable too? There's a lot of other problems w/Futuba's SL so I zoned out on this aspect despite it being odd.

Some of the most anti-social people I know have the most expensive or fashionable clothes. I don't think it's fair to assume that because someone is reclusive, that means they must dress like a slob nor do they not want to express themselves through their appearance.
this felt like one of those things where they had a character design first and then the actual character came later

I think it could've worked on a different character, like if futaba had been the pro model instead of Ann i could see it, but she was literally cowering when a single customer entered Leblanc, to go from that to the big NOTICE ME attention magnet clothes while STILL freaking out if a stranger speaks to her in a public setting i can't buy

Hell even some fashion mags strewn around her messy room would go farther in making me buy it
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
That's honestly reaching. I don't know about this character and I'm the last person to defend Persona, but a recluse teenager dressing up like an edgy fashionable teenager is... not even remotely odd or implausible. C'mon now.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I am bothered by FF7 Remake's assumption that all players are straight males. It puts the women characters at the forefront, but mainly because they want this assumed player to fall in love with them.

They cranked up the love triangle aspect giving it more scenes (ch.14) which is annoying. Doesn't help that Cloud is constantly saving them, especially Tifa which has some kind of own gravity that makes her constantly being a target of falling debris.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,841
They cranked up the love triangle aspect giving it more scenes (ch.14) which is annoying. Doesn't help that Cloud is constantly saving them, especially Tifa which has some kind of own gravity that makes her constantly being a target of falling debris.
Yeah! I felt that way throughout as well.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,268
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
I think the worst scene in 7R as far as a woman needing saving by Cloud has to be this.
youtu.be

Chapter 8 - Budding Bodyguard Gameplay | Final Fantasy 7 Remake in 4K | SPOILER WARNING

SPOILERS WARNING! This is the full playthrough of the eighth chapter. The chapter is called Budding Bodyguard and we are are now getting to know this amazing...
It's not especially egregious in itself but throwing in "I'm not some princess who needs to be coddled" is just 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Overall Aerith is my favorite character in the remake project thus far. Tifa did not get to shine as brightly, but that's staying true to the source material unfortunately. I expect/hope she'll have better moments over the rest of the series.
 
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AkiraAkira

Member
Dec 28, 2017
1,181
I am bothered by FF7 Remake's assumption that all players are straight males. It puts the women characters at the forefront, but mainly because they want this assumed player to fall in love with them.

JRPGs used to be my favorite genre growing up, but as I've become more aware of this kind of stuff, my enjoyment of them has taken a huge blow. It seems like they always go out of their way to make female party members pander to the presumed straight guy beyond the screen. Some games are worse than others, but it's always there and I'm so sick of it.
 

Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,457
Tifa needs to literally sweep Cloud off his feet for a rescue. And then go do something for Tifa.

Reparations
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,899
this felt like one of those things where they had a character design first and then the actual character came later

I think it could've worked on a different character, like if futaba had been the pro model instead of Ann i could see it, but she was literally cowering when a single customer entered Leblanc, to go from that to the big NOTICE ME attention magnet clothes while STILL freaking out if a stranger speaks to her in a public setting i can't buy

Hell even some fashion mags strewn around her messy room would go farther in making me buy it
You realize that you're literally using the "if she doesn't want the attention, why does she dress like that" line of thinking that's so prevalent in sexism
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,586
You realize that you're literally using the "if she doesn't want the attention, why does she dress like that" line of thinking that's so prevalent in sexism
With real people, sure, but when designing characters, the visual half should match the narrative half. The sexist status quo for female character visual design is to ignore their personality, vocation, age, and setting and just default to sexual exploitation. Fictional characters don't make their own decisions. Ask yourself what the designer's agenda is.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
With real people, sure, but when designing characters, the visual half should match the narrative half. The sexist status quo for female character visual design is to ignore their personality, vocation, age, and setting and just default to sexual exploitation. Fictional characters don't make their own decisions. Ask yourself what the designer's agenda is.
True, but this is, from what I understand, an edgy teenager... she's dressed exactly like you'd expect. And she's not even really sexualized, sure it shows some skin but overall it's fairly normal casual clothing. I'd roll my eyes if she were supposed to be a cop or soldier or something, but some school kid not in uniform? Really don't see an issue here.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,121
With real people, sure, but when designing characters, the visual half should match the narrative half. The sexist status quo for female character visual design is to ignore their personality, vocation, age, and setting and just default to sexual exploitation. Fictional characters don't make their own decisions. Ask yourself what the designer's agenda is.

idk, she literally just looks like a normal high schooler to me. In the game itself they don't really put her in any compromising or awkward positions to sexualize her or show off her skin, barring one eye-rolling scene in her swimsuit. There's so much you could dock points from Persona 5 on, even other things involving Futaba, but I really don't think there's anything there with her casual clothes. Can socially awkward people not wear shorts?
 
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DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,586
idk, she literally just looks like a normal high schooler to me. In the game itself they don't really put her in any compromising or awkward positions to sexualize her or show off her skin, barring one eye-rolling scene in her swimsuit. There's so much you could dock points from Persona 5 on, even other things involving Futaba, but I really don't think there's anything there with her casual clothes. Can socially awkward people not wear shorts?
True, but this is, from what I understand, an edgy teenager... she's dressed exactly like you'd expect. And she's not even really sexualized, sure it shows some skin but overall it's fairly normal casual clothing. I'd roll my eyes if she were supposed to be a cop or soldier or something, but some school kid not in uniform? Really don't see an issue here.

I wasn't commenting on this specific character. I was replying to the sentiment ""if she doesn't want the attention, why does she dress like that" line of thinking " in regards to made up characters in general. Shy characters dress like exhibitionists. Professionals look like they're wearing the sexy costume version of their uniform, etc. You can't really apply the rules of real people to fictional ones since one has agency and the other is the expression of somebody else's thoughts.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,640
Brazil
Speaking of FF7 Remake npcs, what does everyone think of Mireille?

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For all the talk about a thief called " The Angel of the Slums" I figured they were going to the sexy, scantily clad route so often used for female thieves in fiction. Good on Mireille for defying those expectations. Fun character too.

I think that she is one of the few npcs that ACTUALLY looks to belong to the same world as the playable characters =P
 
May 13, 2019
1,589
Random trivia about Futaba: she was given orange hair because the designers thought that a dark haired girl with suicidal thoughts was too cliché, not to mention the game already has Shiho. So maybe the same goes for her trendy clothes? Like, having a girl with suicidal thoughts in a dull, crappy getup was also deemed too cliché by them?

EDIT. Hell, Futaba is not the only one whose personality betrays her appearance. Exhibit 1: Haru Okumura:

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Also, Haru:

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FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,035
I remember the boring journalist only because it was related to her and Kylie because its the only one they put a unique design into, for the wrong reasons really. Some bland kids and I believe a lady who stood out because she was a person of colour? That's it.

Genuinely struggling here. I found the side quests and characters involved devoid of personality myself.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
I remember the boring journalist only because it was related to her and Kylie because its the only one they put a unique design into, for the wrong reasons really. Some bland kids and I believe a lady who stood out because she was a person of colour? That's it.

Genuinely struggling here. I found the side quests and characters involved devoid of personality myself.
I'm not saying I remember all of them, but folks like chadley the land lady and stuff I remember. Aerith's mom and stuff too
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,035
I'm not saying I remember all of them, but folks like chadley the land lady and stuff I remember. Aerith's mom and stuff too
I mean she was part of the main story and doesn't even speak as I recall? I was commenting more on side quest related npcs in my initial post, maybe I wasn't clear on that which is my bad.

To be honest I found the whole game a mediocre experience and barely managed to finish it sadly.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
I mean she was part of the main story and doesn't even speak as I recall? I was commenting more on side quest related npcs in my initial post, maybe I wasn't clear on that which is my bad.

To be honest I found the whole game a mediocre experience and barely managed to finish it sadly.
Darn sorry it didn't do it for you
 

Godfather

Game on motherfuckers
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,482
Can't quite tell if Loba is wearing heels or not. She's basically wearing a corset as well. It could be better, IMO, but it's not terrible.
 
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