• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Reader mode
Joeku

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,478
While the demo definitely un-sold me on Barrett and his cartoonish voice, his gradual softening and steadying over the course of the chapters of the game I've played so far has re-sold me. I think the voice direction is at fault here, as the writing is actually great. What I see and hear in my head when I see screencapped bits of game I haven't played yet seem better than the actual character has delivered.
 
Princess Bubblegum

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,310
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
I've been playing a lot of Valkyria Chronicles 4 lately and while I will never stop liking the core gameplay, I'm just so done with the sexism in the series. 4 is way worse than the first game and I never even touched the PSP games, which I imagine embraced the PSP/Vita otaku audience. It's not even the fanservice that truly bothers me but the roles that women and girls play in the story, particularly the Valkyria and their utter lack of agency. Two important (and underdeveloped) romances in the game revolve around the man being a sexist creep (Raz and Walz) and the love interest (Kai and Crymaria, respectively) putting up with it until they reciprocate. Raz is the worst of the two because his sexual harassment of Kai and general views on women are basically waved away because he's a man. Walz not respecting Crymaria's physical boundaries is pretty damn bad and hard to watch during a particular scene, even if it is contextualized in a non sexual way. Then there's Nikola and Chiara, whose designs and bare minimum characterization, exist to cater to a certain subset of the audience. Not to mention the implicit abuse and grooming they underwent at the hands of the lead villain. :|

I don't know where I'm going with this but if the series is dead after 4, I'm okay with that.
 
Aexact

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,268
I think the most egregious moment in VC4 was probably in the post game, where the requisite anime hot springs scene is placed. Some unlikely allies make some sexist remarks akin to "women don't belong on the battlefield" which pisses off Riley.

Who immediately stands up, loudly berates them for their comments. Because it's a hot springs scene, she does this while naked.

As the game "comedically" censors her.

Her angry rant about "actually, women are super capable how dare you" isn't even subtitled like the rest of the conversation as it's delivered with the extremely fast speed of a crazy shrill lady that's not worth listening to as the camera pans over Minerva holding out two arms hovering in front of Riley's breast and crotch. As the comedy music track plays in the background, I just get flashbacks of Raz's sexism being a character quirk and not a flaw, of the scene dedicated to why when the team gets winter clothes the game flimsily explains why Kai and Riley need to share fabric for their uniform to wear less, just the epitome of what the game thinks of women. Exhausting.

It's not that unique in terms of fanservice comedy, but it remains in my memory specifically because I remember seeing someone claim in a VC4 thread that the hot springs scene was in favor of the women back before I had gotten to the post game myself. I was skeptical but curious and upon getting there, I was just left with bewilderment. I can only guess that the poster mistook a Riley's feminism rant as somehow making up for the fact she gets humiliated or that I had been trolled.
 
Morrigan

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,371
Aexact said:
I think the most egregious moment in VC4 was probably in the post game, where the requisite anime hot springs scene is placed. Some unlikely allies make some sexist remarks akin to "women don't belong on the battlefield" which pisses off Riley.

Who immediately stands up, loudly berates them for their comments. Because it's a hot springs scene, she does this while naked.

As the game "comedically" censors her.

Her angry rant about "actually, women are super capable how dare you" isn't even subtitled like the rest of the conversation as it's delivered with the extremely fast speed of a crazy shrill lady that's not worth listening to as the camera pans over Minerva holding out two arms hovering in front of Riley's breast and crotch. As the comedy music track plays in the background, I just get flashbacks of Raz's sexism being a character quirk and not a flaw, of the scene dedicated to why when the team gets winter clothes the game flimsily explains why Kai and Riley need to share fabric for their uniform to wear less, just the epitome of what the game thinks of women. Exhausting.

It's not that unique in terms of fanservice comedy, but it remains in my memory specifically because I remember seeing someone claim in a VC4 thread that the hot springs scene was in favor of the women back before I had gotten to the post game myself. I was skeptical but curious and upon getting there, I was just left with bewilderment. I can only guess that the poster mistook a Riley's feminism rant as somehow making up for the fact she gets humiliated or that I had been trolled.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Holy shit. Yeah, I remember posts saying the scene was "empowering" because hey, she takes no shit blah blah.... I was skeptical, and what you describe sure shows that this was concern trolling nonsense to begin with.

And yeah, I really hate when you have scenes showing women to be "strong and capable" or whatnot, but at the same time completely undermining that message with absurdly overt sexism like that. Basically that "sexism is over" comic played straight.
 
Princess Bubblegum

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,310
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Aexact said:
I think the most egregious moment in VC4 was probably in the post game, where the requisite anime hot springs scene is placed. Some unlikely allies make some sexist remarks akin to "women don't belong on the battlefield" which pisses off Riley.

Who immediately stands up, loudly berates them for their comments. Because it's a hot springs scene, she does this while naked.

As the game "comedically" censors her.

Her angry rant about "actually, women are super capable how dare you" isn't even subtitled like the rest of the conversation as it's delivered with the extremely fast speed of a crazy shrill lady that's not worth listening to as the camera pans over Minerva holding out two arms hovering in front of Riley's breast and crotch. As the comedy music track plays in the background, I just get flashbacks of Raz's sexism being a character quirk and not a flaw, of the scene dedicated to why when the team gets winter clothes the game flimsily explains why Kai and Riley need to share fabric for their uniform to wear less, just the epitome of what the game thinks of women. Exhausting.

It's not that unique in terms of fanservice comedy, but it remains in my memory specifically because I remember seeing someone claim in a VC4 thread that the hot springs scene was in favor of the women back before I had gotten to the post game myself. I was skeptical but curious and upon getting there, I was just left with bewilderment. I can only guess that the poster mistook a Riley's feminism rant as somehow making up for the fact she gets humiliated or that I had been trolled.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The fact that you have to watch that to partially unlock the true ending says something about the creative team. Yeah the cartoon sexism and "feminism" there is really bad, though I didn't mind the gag with Minerva covering Riley since it fits her character. Would have been slightly better if Riley fully knew she was naked and didn't give a fuck. Speaking of Riley, she's basically a nuclear physicist but of course she has to be cute and a little ditzy. 😑 (As well as the protagonist's love interest.)

How they try to justify the non-standard winter outfits for the primary women is quite laughable. Minerva having a skirt period doesn't fit her character, and I knew the game was going to be bad in that regard as soon as I saw the back of Kai's gear. There's at least one or two serious cutscenes where her ass is in the frame for no fucking reason. (Well, I know why.) I find it really funny (sad) that you can't look up skirts in the character model viewer but you can get unintentional panty shots during gameplay because the physics applied to skirts are borked while crawling and during ragdoll moments. Nothing like seeing Minerva gunned down or bombed to near death with her skirt glitching out.
 
FallenGrace

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,036
Still haven't played VC4. I'm a big fan of the first and bought 4 at launch but everything I hear about it keeps pushing it back on my backlog....
 
arcadepc

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
FallenGrace said:
I'll try it eventually, if I ever run out of other games anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I agree with Xasztam. Instead of expanding on VC1 interesting story and lore they do not offer anything new unfortunately and dissapoint the players who were interested in learning something more. At least there are some connections and references to VC1.
As for fanservice moments, there is even a mission to collect swimsuits for the main characters so you know what to expect.
On a bonus side, many VC1 characters are also playable.

I found gameplay aspect improved compared to VC1 if you do not mind scripted gameplay in order to progress. Or else you have to keep your energy for the extra hard skirmishes DLC
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,389
Ferrs said:
It is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I disagree, especially because half the time it's done in an ironic sense where Iris felt completely genuine and acted like it was a normal thing. But yes there is some obnoxious fanservice. I would say this, this game has the least amount of anime body language in it since FF12. And that's in spite of the game being anime as fuck. Sooo, progress?
 
Ferrs

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Crossing Eden said:
I disagree, especially because half the time it's done in an ironic sense where Iris felt completely genuine and acted like it was a normal thing. But yes there is some obnoxious fanservice. I would say this, this game has the least amount of anime body language in it since FF12. And that's in spite of the game being anime as fuck. Sooo, progress?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

how are Tifa talking animations ironic?

About being the game with the less anime body language, I.... dunno? the thing is, weirdly, in the second half, all of this shit dissapears, where it's present everywhere in the first half with Tifa, Barret and even Aerith. It's like each half was directed by someone else.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,389
Ferrs said:
how are Tifa talking animations ironic?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You see by half the time I was referring to Jesse and Aerith. And Tifa is still not AS bad as Iris in the first half:
jfUDAhj.gif

k0bclVs.gif



Ferrs said:
About being the game with the less anime body language, I.... dunno? the thing is, weirdly, in the second half, all of this shit dissapears, where it's present everywhere in the first half with Tifa, Barret and even Aerith. It's like each half was directed by someone else.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean the second half has a very different tone than the first.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,389
Ferrs said:
Usually that tends to not be an excuse for jrpgs but yeah it is here luckily.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This jrpg is really good in spite of having similarities with other jrpgs. I see a lot of stuff like that around, like, a realization that certain things aren't inherently bad. Like linearity. Like, people hated 13 not because it was linear but because that game gave players zero agency. Similar, despite being open world FFXV is nearly as restrictive as 13 was when you dig into it's game design. Both lack the small opportunities for roleplaying that have a tangible effect, (the dialogue choices, choosing to do side quests leading to bits of more actual story, etc.) and amount of choices presented by the materia system. And yea, JRPGs tend to be jarring when it comes to tone.
 
SolidSnakex

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,411
Mimosa said:
Honestly my biggest problem with a character is actually Barrett, who I really wish - as the only black character -- wasn't so loud and abbrasive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

While I definitely understand why people have an issue with Barrett being that way, i'd say it can also be attributed to him being the lone main character that really has a clear set of goals that he's genuinely passionate about. And with him being the leader of AVALANCHE it's important that he be convincing to everyone about what they're doing since it's clear the other members are unsure about certain things they're doing, and Cloud is obviously a gun for hire whose just going along because of the money.

From watching various Let's Plays from new players he seems to continually be near the top of peoples lists of favorite characters. Not just because of his environmental stance, but because how much he seems to care about and try to protect those around him. Square did a really good job of fleshing him out.
 
Moogle

Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,771
imo XV is not as egregious as 7R in terms of infantalising its female cast through animations, and that's not me praising XV on that front, that's just the bar being so low you could step over it. Iris is 15 so at least she's acting closer to her own age, in a non-battle context. lunafreya, aranea and iris' animations are all very distinct from one another. the thing about 7R is every young woman gets the same vanille treatment at some point, sometimes even during fairly serious scenarios. it lends the impression that one mocap performance labelled 'PEPPY' was shared between them all. in chapter 14, after a string of distressing incidents during the main story, a sidequest has the party talking to a 5-ish year old kid. tifa's mannerisms felt not only out of place emotionally but also uncannily similar to the little girl, it's creepy as hell. new addition kyrie is just an offputting weirdo in every scene she appears, acting like an idol anime character on steroids while the world falls down around them.
 
purseowner

purseowner

From the mirror universe
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,444
UK
So a new Trails character seems to have completely exposed buttocks as part of her outfit, which reaches new heights of ludicriousness. In fact, from the screens, I'm not sure she's wearing any underwear at all.

(Latest Gematsu article)

Edit: I'm not up to date on the series but seemingly this isn't a new character
 
Last edited:
Mesoian

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,533
jacket said:
Also
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


I still think that, years later, the reason why people imprinted on the cast of Half Life and Half Life 2 was because they were modeled after real people instead of some fancy idolatry of what the super smart and ultra heroic are supposed to look like.

Go with what you know.
 
Wanderer5

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,987
Somewhere.
purseowner said:
So a new Trails character seems to have completely exposed buttocks as part of her outfit, which reaches new heights of ludicriousness. In fact, from the screens, I'm not sure she's wearing any underwear at all.

(Latest Gematsu article)

Edit: I'm not up to date on the series but seemingly this isn't a new character
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh god, Rixia looks so bad. Looks like she has a casual outfit that is way better lol.
 
Dice

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,366
Canada
lol, for fucks sake Trails.

How about a side slit dress??

Go higher....higher....HIGHER DAMMIT

HIIIIGHEEERRRRR

*tada:

The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_003.jpg


The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_001.jpg


I love her too. And I even like this outfit in concept (the top half is fantastic, just the bottom half is ....basically missing)
 

Deleted member 16876

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Dice said:
lol, for fucks sake Trails.

How about a side slit dress??

Go higher....higher....HIGHER DAMMIT

HIIIIGHEEERRRRR

*tada:

The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_003.jpg


The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_001.jpg


I love her too. And I even like this outfit in concept (the top half is fantastic, just the bottom half is ....basically missing)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ok so what exactly is going on with Trails?

I am playing Trails of the Sky FC and the game isn't anywhere near this stupid when it comes to character design.


Just who find this attractive exactly?
 
Princess Bubblegum

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,310
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Falcom knows their audience. *shakes head*
Richter1887 said:
Ok so what exactly is going on with Trails?

I am playing Trails of the Sky FC and the game isn't anywhere near this stupid when it comes to character design.


Just who find this attractive exactly?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Cold Steel arc started on the Vita, so I think that explains a lot. From what I've seen, the Crossbell arc on PSP is apparently when they started increasing the amount of fanservice. It's also when the above character is introduced.
 
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Dice said:
lol, for fucks sake Trails.

How about a side slit dress??

Go higher....higher....HIGHER DAMMIT

HIIIIGHEEERRRRR

*tada:

The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_003.jpg


The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_001.jpg


I love her too. And I even like this outfit in concept (the top half is fantastic, just the bottom half is ....basically missing)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Do these developers ever go outside with little clothes on? Do they know how...uncomfortable leaving your skin to the elements on a day to day basis can be?
 
Lacrimosis

Lacrimosis

Member
Dec 13, 2019
4,785
Dice said:
lol, for fucks sake Trails.

How about a side slit dress??

Go higher....higher....HIGHER DAMMIT

HIIIIGHEEERRRRR

*tada:


I love her too. And I even like this outfit in concept (the top half is fantastic, just the bottom half is ....basically missing)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I just find it hilarious how utterly pointless her arm protection is made by the rest of her outfit.
 
Sheldon

Sheldon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,339
Ruhrgebiet, Germany
Morrigan said:
Holy shit. Yeah, I remember posts saying the scene was "empowering" because hey, she takes no shit blah blah.... I was skeptical, and what you describe sure shows that this was concern trolling nonsense to begin with.

And yeah, I really hate when you have scenes showing women to be "strong and capable" or whatnot, but at the same time completely undermining that message with absurdly overt sexism like that. Basically that "sexism is over" comic played straight.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The bathtub scene in Game of Thrones is the better version of this scene. Brienne impulsively leaps out of the water in anger, Jaime is quickly shamed, averts his eyes and aplogizes. I'm sure those concerned nerds are familiar with that example and should recognize the difference.
 
Ferrs

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Dice said:
lol, for fucks sake Trails.

How about a side slit dress??

Go higher....higher....HIGHER DAMMIT

HIIIIGHEEERRRRR

*tada:

The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_003.jpg


The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_001.jpg


I love her too. And I even like this outfit in concept (the top half is fantastic, just the bottom half is ....basically missing)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

the hell is this , looks like she literally forgot to put her pants when she left home.
 
Mesoian

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,533
Dice said:
lol, for fucks sake Trails.

How about a side slit dress??

Go higher....higher....HIGHER DAMMIT

HIIIIGHEEERRRRR

*tada:

The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_003.jpg


The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_001.jpg


I love her too. And I even like this outfit in concept (the top half is fantastic, just the bottom half is ....basically missing)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Say it with me now...


"SOMEBODY STOLE THAT POOR GIRL'S PANTS!"
 
PepsimanVsJoe

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,141
Goddammit Falcom.
Look at the way her top cuts off at the waist. It seriously looks like somebody straight-up forgot to give her pants, or shorts, or even underwear.
 
kappapeachie

kappapeachie

Member
Aug 5, 2019
123
Dice said:
lol, for fucks sake Trails.

How about a side slit dress??

Go higher....higher....HIGHER DAMMIT

HIIIIGHEEERRRRR

*tada:

The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_003.jpg


The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_001.jpg


I love her too. And I even like this outfit in concept (the top half is fantastic, just the bottom half is ....basically missing)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


a simple photoshop edit would make this a million times better, holy crap. who greenlit this?
 
Zen

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
I don't dig Tifa and Aerith's exaggerated body language either, as it doesn't really befit their character portrayals in dialogue and performance. It probably makes a lot more sense with the JP dub, but it's the typical anime girl body movements designed to be cutesy. I usually brush that kind of thing off since I'm so desensitized to it in anime, but it really stood out playing the remake because the English VAs did such a stellar job of making them feel like real people.
 
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
So, on the plus side, the new XCOM game is pretty good, though I now know that people really really want to have sex with snake women and I'm not sure where else I can put this information.

EDIT: Also it is nice to have a game with alien women that don't suddenly become waifu bait when compared to the male counterparts like in so many media.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Xaszatm said:
So, on the plus side, the new XCOM game is pretty good, though I now know that people really really want to have sex with snake women and I'm not sure where else I can put this information.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, this is background art that they drew themselves. People in XCOM land are canonically thirsty for snakes.
EVq2BgGXkAEas3G
 
Isilia

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
5,807
US: PA
Dice said:
lol, for fucks sake Trails.

How about a side slit dress??

Go higher....higher....HIGHER DAMMIT

HIIIIGHEEERRRRR

*tada:

The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_003.jpg


The-Legend-of-Heroes-Hajimari-no-Kiseki_2020_04-23-20_001.jpg


I love her too. And I even like this outfit in concept (the top half is fantastic, just the bottom half is ....basically missing)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's like they saw Laura and went "How can we make a character like her with MORE fanservice?" (since short skirts aren't enough anymore I guess)

I love the trails in the sky series, but it just keeps rolling downhill from there. I am liking Trails of Zero so far (only 2 hours in), but I'm just awaiting a surprise fanservice moment.
 
kyorii

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,983
Splatlandia
Isilia said:
It's like they saw Laura and went "How can we make a character like her with MORE fanservice?" (since short skirts aren't enough anymore I guess)

I love the trails in the sky series, but it just keeps rolling downhill from there. I am liking Trails of Zero so far (only 2 hours in), but I'm just awaiting a surprise fanservice moment.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Correction there, Rixia came way before Laura. Rixia, Sherry etc were in the series prior to CS. Infact, you'll run into Rixia in Zero.

Here's her in Zero:
latest


latest

latest
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
SteelBeast6Beets

SteelBeast6Beets

Banned
May 13, 2019
1,589
Astartes said:
Are her boobs invulnerable? I cant see any reason why she would have a massive target exposed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think they just keep growing and growing and growing.

Seriously, it is supposed to be a side effect of being an intoner that one part of their bodies keep growing. In Five's case, it's her boobs. Other examples include Three's hair and Four's nails.
 

Deleted member 32679

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,787
SteelBeast6Beets said:
I think they just keep growing and growing and growing.

Seriously, it is supposed to be a side effect of being an intoner that one part of their bodies keep growing. In Five's case, it's her boobs. Other examples include Three's hair and Four's nails.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So at some point her boobs will be bigger than her head and impede her in combat. Cool.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
Status
Not open for further replies.