Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

[allenpergallon]

Were they talking about the cheesecake or the macabre element cause I feel like the cheesecake element wouldn't be that off putting in the FGC. Like, there's a lot of T&A but T&A is passé. The more standout element was the weirdness of it. People throwing their heads and spines to fight.

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I actually do recall that thread. Essentially the argument was that Skullgirls was pulling from three main angles for its aesthetic (pin-up modeling, art deco, and mild body horror) which is generally more uneven and less appealing than mashing two styles together equally. Those definitely aren't the only influences in the game's art and I doubt it was the sole factor in whatever performance the game had, but I think the argument had some general merit.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Yeah and to a degree she has won the heart of a pirate lady

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A thirsty sea caption she be. Baozhai is so overtly sapphic but does that go anywhere? I do love her design and personality, from what I've seen.

 

[Aexact]

I actually do recall that thread. Essentially the argument was that Skullgirls was pulling from three main angles for its aesthetic (pin-up modeling, art deco, and mild body horror) which is generally more uneven and less appealing than mashing two styles together equally. Those definitely aren't the only influences in the game's art and I doubt it was the sole factor in whatever performance the game had, but I think the argument had some general merit.

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Ah, so the mashup element. It gave the game a pretty vibrant, recognizable style though and the pin-up aspect was actually easier to swallow when it's so unconventionally presented with the other elements. ... probably not so true for people that only wanted the pin up aspect, heh.

 

[Metalsnakezero]

A thirsty sea caption she be. Baozhai is so overtly sapphic but does that go anywhere? I do love her design and personality, from what I've seen.

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At the moment she pretty nervous when she around Thorani.

 

[Laiza]

Speaking personally, Skullgirls kind of bounced off of me because they didn't have anything in the realm of normalcy to really anchor myself to. Among the extant cast they're all quirky and weird (especially Peacock - once you know her eye sockets are actually empty and she sees through the eyes on her robot arms it's hard to overlook that); only Beowulf is kind of grounded as a goofy wrestler homage. Even the poster girl has living hair that has teeth and a will of its own. That plus the fact that basically the entire female cast sans Peacock is sexualized in some fashion doesn't help.

I probably would've been able to get into it more if Feng or Annie were in the cast, but they're not, so...

 

[Metalsnakezero]

That plus the fact that basically the entire female cast sans Peacock is sexualized in some fashion doesn't help.

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Always felt Peacok was the one that they couldn't do that with.

 

[Lycanthrope -R-]

That plus the fact that basically the entire female cast sans Peacock is sexualized in some fashion doesn't help.

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I wouldn't say that Painwheel is sexualized either. I guess maybe Double is borderline, but...eugh. lol

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I forgot that ZONE does animation for Lab Zero Games and saw her cameo in Indivisible, that explains so much. 😑 Given the nature of her past (?) work, I have to wonder how she could even get a professional gig. My GF finally got to Phoebe and even her idle animation has relatively excessive breast movement.

 

[Babymomo]

The reason Skullgirls isn't bigger in the FGC is because it's not made by Capcom, it's not backed by a big publisher, and it's not a legacy title with decades of history and fanbase to pull from. The last reason is probably the only one that really matters at this point, but the first two were certainly factors when the game first game out.

Sonicfox got his start as a DOA player.

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Not gonna lie i feel disgusted by how many of the people in this thread have gross sexual avi's, like... the fuck is this?

And it will never not be funny for me to see men on resetera with avis that literally have the biggest boobs ive ever seen on a woman with the tiniest waist come in threads or heck start threads critizing sexaul designs. Something aint right with yall.

 

[Mars People]

In my opinion Street Fighter 5 has way worse sexualisation of its female characters than Skullgirls ever did. Considering it's going for a 'realistic' art style it's getting absurd that Chun-li's breasts are almost bigger than her head now.

 

[Shingi_70]

I forgot that ZONE does animation for Lab Zero Games and saw her cameo in Indivisible, that explains so much. 😑 Given the nature of her past (?) work, I have to wonder how she could even get a professional gig. My GF finally got to Phoebe and even her idle animation has relatively excessive breast movement.

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The stigma for NSFW artist has went down, and it's also why most nsfw artist don't use their real names. In the case of Zone it helps that the indivisible team are small devs.

One of my favorite artist right now did a bunch of hardcore porn comics and now does work for Marvel and DC and his porn is literally in the same style.

 

[Komii]

I forgot that ZONE does animation for Lab Zero Games and saw her cameo in Indivisible, that explains so much. 😑 Given the nature of her past (?) work, I have to wonder how she could even get a professional gig. My GF finally got to Phoebe and even her idle animation has relatively excessive breast movement.

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The themes an artist chooses to work on doesn't really influence wether they can be hired or not. ZERO is incredibly talented and capable of doing good animations. The one who decides which animations will be used are the game directors, so if some fanservicey work ended up there the blame is on them and not on ZERO.

This isn't me defending ZERO, I just wanna make clear where the responsabilities lie in this matter, if the directors deemed the animations too exagerated for the game, they would have veto'ed them.

It's very rare a case where the artist alone is the problem, like that dude doing work in injustice 1 who called all shots on making it lewder...

For example, the guy doing character designs for Lilo and Stitch does a huge amount of NSFW drawings but none of them ended up in the movie because Disney didn't want it in the movie/wouldn't allow it. So if Lab Zero saw no issue with the animations it's the whole team who allowed it that you should blame for indivisible, if you dislike Zero's personal work then you blame Zero...

Might have sounded a bit confusing so a TL;DR would be: Zero is a very talented animator that does sexualized things, but someone allowed that sexualization in their game so it's not only one person's fault. They could have told zero to cut the fanservicey shit but didn't, and i'm honestly amazed of how much they toned it down from SG...

It's a shame, having someone that can make sprites so fluid but will use it to make fluid boob animation instead of focusing their energy into somethig else lol

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

ZONE made/makes content involving underage characters from cartoons. Artists shouldn't have barriers from getting work for doing adult material, that wasn't the intent of my comment. Mariip, you're right that it's those in creative control that let or tell artists/animators to do these kinds of things in games.

 

[Komii]

ZONE made/makes content involving underage characters from cartoons. Artists shouldn't have barriers from getting work for doing adult material, that wasn't the intent of my comment. Mariip, you're right that it's those in creative control that let or tell artists/animators to do these kinds of things in games.

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It's ok, i just wanted to make that clear that you can't take the blame off the studio xD

Art is a weapon, when you have that much skill you can do amazing things stuff, but you can also make a hell of a damage :/ on a technical level Zero is amazing, but not every artist has conscience of the impact of their work :/

I had some classes at design college about the social role that professionals at my area have... I really think it should be a thing for most professions, specially the ones dealing with communication :/

 

[esserius]

deleted, apologies

 

[Shingi_70]

Pretty funny thread of Gail Simonie buying a cute game and finding out it's a super Fanservice heavy game.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Oh geez, ContraPoints.

 

[ShyMel]

Pretty funny thread of Gail Simonie buying a cute game and finding out it's a super Fanservice heavy game.

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I feel great sympathy for anyone buying a Compile Heart game not knowing what it is.

 

[kyorii]

Amusing but she actually likes it. lol. Quirky.

 

[QisTopTier]

Amusing but she actually likes it. lol. Quirky.

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Twist ending :P

 

[kyorii]

Not gonna lie, I was never going to get pixies, but the way gail selling has me intrigued.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Pretty funny thread of Gail Simonie buying a cute game and finding out it's a super Fanservice heavy game.

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So glad I read that thread. Laughably absurd lol

 

[Joe2187]

Not gonna lie, I was never going to get pixies, but the way gail selling has me intrigued.

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The senran kagura games as well as valkyrie drive are all within the same realm of overly perverse fanservice with saccharine storytelling.

And the games exist solely in a universe where men are nonexistent or dont even really matter. Valkyrie drive is all about lesbians turning eachother into swords through orgasms.

Its just so ridiculously over the top.

 

[Metalsnakezero]

Oh Mary no!

 

[Xaszatm]

Sure glad to see that people are so upset about a game removing (sorry "censoring") "vagina bones" and sexualized minors that NIntendo had to apologize for it. Or saying that a game needed those things to be successful and not because the premise in the first place wouldn't that appealing outside of a certain niche (even if I personally like the gameplay).

/s

 

[Foot]

Sure glad to see that people are so upset about a game removing (sorry "censoring") "vagina bones" and sexualized minors that NIntendo had to apologize for it. Or saying that a game needed those things to be successful and not because the premise in the first place wouldn't that appealing outside of a certain niche (even if I personally like the gameplay).

/s

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Yeah, just unabashed "if this game doesn't have sexualized high school students I, an adult, won't buy it"

 

[Deleted member 4976]

I didn't realize "pelvic bones" could be such a contentious issue...

 

[Dary]

I didn't realize "pelvic bones" could be such a contentious issue...

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Never underestimate weebs.

 

[Xaszatm]

Yeah, just unabashed "if this game doesn't have sexualized high school students I, an adult, won't buy it"

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I especially "appreciate" those who say making the characters so that they are adults instead of teenagers "censorship" and a reason why they will refuse to buy the game. Like...you have some issues if you need a sexualized character under the legal age. *Insert it's not pedophilia its edophilia phrase here*

 

[Shining Star]

I didn't realize "pelvic bones" could be such a contentious issue...

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If they want to clean up the game a bit that's cool, I just don't know why people are acting like bones need to be censored. It's so bizarre.

 

[RPG_Fanatic]

Sure glad to see that people are so upset about a game removing (sorry "censoring") "vagina bones" and sexualized minors that NIntendo had to apologize for it. Or saying that a game needed those things to be successful and not because the premise in the first place wouldn't that appealing outside of a certain niche (even if I personally like the gameplay).

/s

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I didn't think about whether the TMS port would use the North American or Japanese release as a base until the Nintendo offering refunds for preorders thread popped up. Maybe it is my fault for expecting better, but boy was a disappointed going into the announcement thread to see the last few pages of discussion focused solely on the "censorship" of the game.

 

[Choppasmith]

Does anyone have that link about a developer talking about designing characters and how they were going to design a cool, badass older woman but by the time the higher ups were done with it, she was a big breasted young girl? I'd love to post that in the thread for all the people talking about "Original vision"

 

[Xaszatm]

Does anyone have that link about a developer talking about designing characters and how they were going to design a cool, badass older woman but by the time the higher ups were done with it, she was a big breasted young girl? I'd love to post that in the thread for all the people talking about "Original vision"

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Threadmarks had it but the tweets have been deleted unfortunately.

 

[tangeu]

Does anyone have that link about a developer talking about designing characters and how they were going to design a cool, badass older woman but by the time the higher ups were done with it, she was a big breasted young girl? I'd love to post that in the thread for all the people talking about "Original vision"

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Found an archive:

https://archive.fo/HmY4i

 

[Choppasmith]

Found an archive:

https://archive.fo/HmY4i

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'
And I saved the backup via zip.

 

[Syril]

Does anyone have that link about a developer talking about designing characters and how they were going to design a cool, badass older woman but by the time the higher ups were done with it, she was a big breasted young girl? I'd love to post that in the thread for all the people talking about "Original vision"

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I bet they'll get super capitalist really suddenly.

 

[Brannon]

Most hunting games are not as good as Monster Hunter.

Mainly because they lack focus on what matters.

But some focus a bit too much on other things...



*you'll know when to stop watching*

 

[Tizoc]

Pretty funny thread of Gail Simonie buying a cute game and finding out it's a super Fanservice heavy game.

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I've been a fan of her work for years, but ummm....yeah welcome to pandering in japanese video games....

 

[Joe2187]

Most hunting games are not as good as Monster Hunter.

Mainly because they lack focus on what matters.

But some focus a bit too much on other things...



*you'll know when to stop watching*

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Every single character looks like they came from a create a character tool. The most jarring aspect isnt her painted tits it's the clothes, headgear, and ornaments all clashing together terribly and looking like they wearing actual fake cosplay.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Been a little while

Yeah, the story had ambition of being something more, but...

"Here's a low key story about the relationships between young girls" Okay, great! Thanks! I really want something like that.
"Here's the main character stretching in her underwear." What? No.
"Here's her shirt, see through in the rain." I don't want tha—
"Here are girls groping each other in the shower!" PLEASE stop
"How about some closeups of their glistening wet asses as they swim?? Note our attention to detail on both the asses and the glisten"

And THEN you notice the DLC, which is straight up porn outfits.

Incredibly disappointing. Indescribably gross.

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Wow, Code Vein is actually worse than I was led to believe? long gutteral sigh

DARLING in the FRANXX does feel like EVA with the subtlety of a brick to the face.

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Honestly it's even sadder than that because at least Eva is really sympathetic to queer readings and FRANXX is actively hostile to it.

People in general did not seem to care for the statement and turned "you'll want to protect her" into a joke response in TR threads over the internet.

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I tried playing the first game and found myself struggling to get through the tutorial because of how much I couldn't get over the way their goals were being realized as the QTE torture porn sequences. When I got past it and got the chance to go through an awkward, unpleasant open-world segment I stopped and have never felt a need to go back to it.

 

[Foot]

Been a little while



Wow, Code Vein is actually worse than I was led to believe? long gutteral sigh

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Not Code Vein, Blue Reflection!

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Not Code Vein, Blue Reflection!

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Oh. Yeah. Sorry, misread because the first post in that chain mentioned Code Vein first.

It's frustrating. A narratively promising game in many respects but I am so, so tired of bath scenes like that because they are so badly done, almost universally.

 

[Syril]

Oh geez, ContraPoints.

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What's the deal with her? The one video of hers I watched wasn't about gender but apparently she's expressed some not so great views about non-binary people?

 

[Mekanos]

Sure glad to see that people are so upset about a game removing (sorry "censoring") "vagina bones" and sexualized minors that NIntendo had to apologize for it. Or saying that a game needed those things to be successful and not because the premise in the first place wouldn't that appealing outside of a certain niche (even if I personally like the gameplay).

/s

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That thread was a clown show. Couldn't believe I saw something like that on ResetERA.

 

[Aexact]

That thread was a clown show. Couldn't believe I saw something like that on ResetERA.

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I think it's going better than expected. Most people agree with the changes. There's a not-underserved derision of people who would ask for a refund or claiming censorship.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

What's the deal with her? The one video of hers I watched wasn't about gender but apparently she's expressed some not so great views about non-binary people?

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She thinks that certain non-binary issues have a negative effect on binary identified trans women.

While i can see where she's coming from, and somewhat agree on some things, i think she should keep that shit to herself because her position means she does maximum damage with troubling views.

Most hunting games are not as good as Monster Hunter.

Mainly because they lack focus on what matters.

But some focus a bit too much on other things...



*you'll know when to stop watching*

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I laughed out loud, this video is comical. Someone actually went through the effort to place the camera like that and thought, "Yeah nailed it!"

 

[Mekanos]

I think it's going better than expected. Most people agree with the changes. There's a not-underserved derision of people who would ask for a refund or claiming censorship.

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My perspective was colored by the amount of shit that was on the first page when I opened the thread, people unironically saying shit like "no to censorship," and then the defense force amounted to "stop posting drive bys about vagina bones!"

All I really saw worth getting annoyed about was the wedding dress and a slightly less coherent chapter 2. People just writing paragraphs and paragraphs expressing their outrage over these minor changes and I don't get it.

There's also a certain contingent of posters that seem to crop up consistently on this issue and show their ass a bit on it. But I won't dredge up cross-thread drama too much here.

 

[esserius]

deleted, apologies.

 

[Ketkat]

I think she's extremely willing to engage with the content of dysphoria, and most are actually quite uncomfortable with the murkiness of those lines, including the people who are attempting to accept them. It's more troublesome to not engage with that if it's something you find disconcerting, than to remain silent, because the discourse of a vacuum is just the status quo, which is itself against criticality.

Anyway, some articles to provide, maybe, some clarity about why people are so mad at her right now:

https://arcdigital.media/contrapoints-and-the-scandal-that-shouldnt-be-15ac97f330d4

https://medium.com/@TheRealAKhaled/...nouns-trans-non-binary-discourse-48a06625e9f0

I honestly think sexualization is itself a form of dysphoria (it is dissociative after all, since everything it gets attached to is almost categorically unrealistic), whereby pursuit of an ideal often comes at the expense of treating people respectfully.

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..Did you really just link Jesse Singal with an article about how people are only calling out Contrapoints because they want to feel some kind of power over her? Jesse Singal, the cisman, who has written countless transphobic articles and gone on the record to say that people shouldn't transition as children or teenagers ever, as well as a whole host of other transphobic bullshit?

What Contrapoints said was problematic because she insinuated that non-binary people are to blame for some of the bigotry that we face as binary trans people, and that's just bullshit. It's the same kind of argument that transphobic LGB people make to remove the T from the community, and it places this ridiculous responsibility on people who aren't responsible for what bigots say in any way.

She has always struggled with acknowledging non-binary people in the past, but this stands on it's own as being an incredibly bad take ever, aired out in public or not :

This is and always be a shitty thing to say.

 

[rras1994]

..Did you really just link Jesse Singal with an article about how people are only calling out Contrapoints because they want to feel some kind of power over her? Jesse Singal, the cisman, who has written countless transphobic articles and gone on the record to say that people shouldn't transition as children or teenagers ever, as well as a whole host of other transphobic bullshit?

What Contrapoints said was problematic because she insinuated that non-binary people are to blame for some of the bigotry that we face as binary trans people, and that's just bullshit. It's the same kind of argument that transphobic LGB people make to remove the T from the community, and it places this ridiculous responsibility on people who aren't responsible for what bigots say in any way.

She has always struggled with acknowledging non-binary people in the past, but this stands on it's own as being an incredibly bad take ever, aired out in public or not :

This is and always be a shitty thing to say.

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And there's really no point in defending it cus even Natalie said it wasn't right to say and took a break from twitter over it. Like she messed up. Hopefully she learns from it.