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Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Im honestly pretty bummed more sites don't call it what it is.

Anyways thought I'd post it here too, but I photoshopped a version of the violet-haired girl from Atelier Ryza to be less....generous

713xbdl.gif


They were fun to do, so yay I can get some photoshop practice with jrpg games. :P
The photoshop looks less photoshopped than the actual one.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,257
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
On a non-spoiler note, I'm still playing it on PC and if there's one Switch addition I really want to see added it's the "Character Style" option. I had to give up Sylvando's fabulous feathered performer costume for one with better stats. Plus, when you're doing Stronger Monsters every bit of Defence counts and this unfortunately means equipping this on Serena

Dragon-Quest-XI-Costumes-Dancer-Set.jpg


It's funny how there's no text or anything regarding Serena's reaction wearing this. It's really out of the blue. Now with with XI S you can just dress her up as you see fit.
The fanservice in Dragon Quest games has always been off putting to me and it's weird how mainstream the series is in Japan, thus normalizing this. Of course the bigger issue with the series is the creator and SE still working with that nationalist queerphobic composer.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,177
Im honestly pretty bummed more sites don't call it what it is. (PS: don't read the comments)

Anyways thought I'd post it here too, but I photoshopped a version of the violet-haired girl from Atelier Ryza to be less....generous

713xbdl.gif


They were fun to do, so yay I can get some photoshop practice with jrpg games. :P
Why is her arse literally square in the original?
Its like somebody just dragged it to the sides like Mario's face in Mario 64.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,514
The sad thing is, in 20+ years she might even be considered flat chested due to the way games need to get more and more extreme to stand out.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I now see in order to prove my fandom I need to take a detailed essay quiz about it.

Motherfucker I own Atelier Marie! On PS1! Now I get to here all these Otaku gatekeep me!?!
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,029
The sad thing is, in 20+ years she might even be considered flat chested due to the way games need to get more and more extreme to stand out.
they'll exist, but for the required by merch law half naked child who is totally legal age because they are half angel, half ancient ones (but thats a spoiler,) and half human that turn into a dragon when sneezed on
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,212
Hi, don't comment in this thread, mostly because I don't have much to add to the discussion or feel awkward discussing my sexuality or gender in public forums, but some of the rhetoric in the TLOU2 thread about the Bury your Gays trope really got uncomfortable for me and also there is something I've noticed when watching through the Pokemon anime that I don't see discussed much, the characterisation of Gardenia, the grass Gym leader in the 4th gen of the games.

I don't know if this was just a dub addition though given the reactions I doubt it but there she takes what I can only describe is near or VERY implied sexual pleasure in getting bitten, bullet seeded etc by grass type Pokemon, this is shown very clearly twice when she allow's James Carnivine bite her head (which I believe she even calls a hunk) and James Cacnea to bullet seed her back in the episode "The Grass-Type Is Always Greener!".

I don't know how to feel about this because besides from being so unexpected (and given how little I've seen mention of this online besides TVTropes I don't know I'm just seeing things) and because of the weird dynamics at play with this sort of this and what Pokemon are. This episode also has her without her Undershirt on for most of it which I would think would be just a colouring error if it wasn't for content I mentioned above.

Has anyone seen this episode? Am I just seeing things and what do you think?
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
Of course.

But sure, big breasted women don't get enough representation in games! 🙄


Actually... They don't. The real kind, with gravity-induced boobs, are seldom represented in games. What often is, however, are skinny women with inflatable balloons. I really wouldn't mind more representation of women with big boobs, but more often than not, designers just put some insanely large and heavy-yet-light-feathered boobs on the body of someone who should obviously not have bigger boobs than a B/C cup. Much like Red Monika (I love her despite that). And that often results in something hilariously bad and unrealistic, as if the person who designed those women, had never ever seen real big boobs in the first place. But yeah, I think real big breasted women are actually never really represented. Mostly because big breasted women come with fat in many other places than just in their boobs. And we wouldn't want non-skinny female characters in video games now, would we?
 
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Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Actually... They don't. The real kind, with gravity-induced boobs, are seldom represented in games. What often is, however, are women with inflatable balloons. I really wouldn't mind more representation of women with big boobs, but more often than not, designers just put some insanely large and heavy-yet-light-feathered boobs on the body of someone who should obviously not have bigger boobs than a B/C cup. Much like Red Monika. And that often results in something hilariously bad and unrealistic, as if the person who designed those women, had never ever seen real big boobs in the first place. But yeah, I think real big breasted women are actually never really represented. Mostly because big breasted women come with fat in many other places than just on their boobs. And we wouldn't want non-skinny female characters in video games now, would we?

That's a good point.
 

show me your skeleton

#1 Bugsnax Fan
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,596
skeleton land
Yeah, it's tiring as hell. I think it's why non-progressive voices are so loud on the internet. We get tired and sad seeing their views, whereas they get all fired up with misguided indignation at ours.
agreed. also like, assuming the guy i quoted was acting in good faith, it's not my place to downplay the importance of a woman finding confidence, empowerment or representation in what i consider a pretty crass character design, even if i feel i could point to a billion other examples of big breasted, slim women in games and anime. sigh, stuff is hard.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,832
Hi, don't comment in this thread, mostly because I don't have much to add to the discussion or feel awkward discussing my sexuality or gender in public forums, but some of the rhetoric in the TLOU2 thread about the Bury your Gays trope really got uncomfortable for me and also there is something I've noticed when watching through the Pokemon anime that I don't see discussed much, the characterisation of Gardenia, the grass Gym leader in the 4th gen of the games.

I don't know if this was just a dub addition though given the reactions I doubt it but there she takes what I can only describe is near or VERY implied sexual pleasure in getting bitten, bullet seeded etc by grass type Pokemon, this is shown very clearly twice when she allow's James Carnivine bite her head (which I believe she even calls a hunk) and James Cacnea to bullet seed her back in the episode "The Grass-Type Is Always Greener!".

I don't know how to feel about this because besides from being so unexpected (and given how little I've seen mention of this online besides TVTropes I don't know I'm just seeing things) and because of the weird dynamics at play with this sort of this and what Pokemon are. This episode also has her without her Undershirt on for most of it which I would think would be just a colouring error if it wasn't for content I mentioned above.

Has anyone seen this episode? Am I just seeing things and what do you think?
Do you have clips of this?
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,294
Actually... They don't. The real kind, with gravity-induced boobs, are seldom represented in games. What often is, however, are women with inflatable balloons. I really wouldn't mind more representation of women with big boobs, but more often than not, designers just put some insanely large and heavy-yet-light-feathered boobs on the body of someone who should obviously not have bigger boobs than a B/C cup. Much like Red Monika. And that often results in something hilariously bad and unrealistic, as if the person who designed those women, had never ever seen real boobs in the first place. But yeah, I think real big breasted women are actually never really represented. Mostly because big breasted women come with fat in many other places than just on their boobs. And we wouldn't want non-skinny female characters in video games now, would we?
That's actually a great point and I agree completely! However, the designs who get criticized are, obviously, never of this particular body type, so it's really transparently disingenuous when dudes try dismissing criticism by telling us that Red Monika is just "representation for large-breasted women" 😂

Those people are never talking about characters like Ellie (Borderlands) or Sigrun Engel (Wolfenstein 2 TNC), or Elizabeta Torres (GTA IV). I would love to see more of that, but that's not the kind of representation they want, lol.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
Hi, don't comment in this thread, mostly because I don't have much to add to the discussion or feel awkward discussing my sexuality or gender in public forums, but some of the rhetoric in the TLOU2 thread about the Bury your Gays trope really got uncomfortable for me and also there is something I've noticed when watching through the Pokemon anime that I don't see discussed much, the characterisation of Gardenia, the grass Gym leader in the 4th gen of the games.

I don't know if this was just a dub addition though given the reactions I doubt it but there she takes what I can only describe is near or VERY implied sexual pleasure in getting bitten, bullet seeded etc by grass type Pokemon, this is shown very clearly twice when she allow's James Carnivine bite her head (which I believe she even calls a hunk) and James Cacnea to bullet seed her back in the episode "The Grass-Type Is Always Greener!".

I don't know how to feel about this because besides from being so unexpected (and given how little I've seen mention of this online besides TVTropes I don't know I'm just seeing things) and because of the weird dynamics at play with this sort of this and what Pokemon are. This episode also has her without her Undershirt on for most of it which I would think would be just a colouring error if it wasn't for content I mentioned above.

Has anyone seen this episode? Am I just seeing things and what do you think?

I'm not really sure how this relates to the Bury Your Gays trope, but I went and looked at that stuff and it seems mostly fine. It happens three times total, and most of it is demonstrated by how much she loves grass pokemon as she's the grass gym leader, and she even takes the time to teach James how to properly take care of his Cacnea, and how to use it's moves better before he gives it to her as a thank you.

Her outfit that she was wearing there is kind of dumb as her undershirt exposes only her stomach, but it's literally the only outfit she's shown in both in the anime and the games :

200px-Gardenia_anime.png


Spr_Pt_Gardenia.png


I don't think she allowed Carnivine to bite her head either, but I always saw that as just a 1:1 comparison with James and how he always has a grass pokemon that bites his head. Some of it's a bit odd, but within the context of how she works with James and teaches him, it all seems fine.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Actually... They don't. The real kind, with gravity-induced boobs, are seldom represented in games. What often is, however, are skinny women with inflatable balloons. I really wouldn't mind more representation of women with big boobs, but more often than not, designers just put some insanely large and heavy-yet-light-feathered boobs on the body of someone who should obviously not have bigger boobs than a B/C cup. Much like Red Monika (I love her despite that). And that often results in something hilariously bad and unrealistic, as if the person who designed those women, had never ever seen real big boobs in the first place. But yeah, I think real big breasted women are actually never really represented. Mostly because big breasted women come with fat in many other places than just in their boobs. And we wouldn't want non-skinny female characters in video games now, would we?
Oh, I defo agree with this, it's ironic how you see poster's complain about how we are mocking real life body types and being unsupportive when you don't actually get what women with big breasts actually look like in games. Breasts are made of fat, you aren't going to get the rest of the body having hardly any fat on and big breasts, that's just not how bodies work. Which is why I always fiond it funny how you see posters say their wife/girlfriend/friend looks just like that and we are being mean mocking their shape, cus I haven't ever seen proportions like that in real life outside plastic surgery and the honestly the plastic surgery boobs don't tend to be that big cus man that size would kill your back.
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
Actually... They don't. The real kind, with gravity-induced boobs, are seldom represented in games. What often is, however, are skinny women with inflatable balloons. I really wouldn't mind more representation of women with big boobs, but more often than not, designers just put some insanely large and heavy-yet-light-feathered boobs on the body of someone who should obviously not have bigger boobs than a B/C cup. Much like Red Monika (I love her despite that). And that often results in something hilariously bad and unrealistic, as if the person who designed those women, had never ever seen real big boobs in the first place. But yeah, I think real big breasted women are actually never really represented. Mostly because big breasted women come with fat in many other places than just in their boobs. And we wouldn't want non-skinny female characters in video games now, would we?

But that so easy to circumvent.

Every schmuck out there able to use google for more than 1 minute will find real examples to further their agenda. Is it normal for women with a small frame to have big breasts? Not in the slightest, but some do. It's the same thing with the whole loli bullshit. is it normal that a 12 year old looks nearly identical to a 35 year old? Absolutely not but there are real cases where both the mother and the daughter (dressed the same) can't be told apart easily.

As long as they have real life humans to point to you can't win this argument. Even that out of shape tits and ass monster in the new atelier game is not nearly as outlandish if you compare it to Kim Kardashian or Nicki Minaj.

I'm happy that nearly 99% of this garbage is coming from japanese developers these days. The AAA industry seems to shy away from these extremes in most games. But on the other end that also means i don't believe this is changing in these niche japanese games, gacha games, online mmos, etc. They don't give a fuck about people in western countries not liking this. Even nintendo thinks more about their botom line than demanding less degrading characters from their own studios.

How can you change someones way to do business if anytime they feel like it they can take their ball home and you get nothing in the future. Many of these smaler studios make their games for their little niche home-market. They survived just fine without the west. Some developers or anime studios don't even try to sell their games/animes to the west on their own. These studios are often little leeches that found a way to get money from a very specific audience in japan. At best they'll stop bringinig it over to the west.

Even if some would stop after learning that they can make more money without these designs it would take almost no time for another new studio to pop up and start churning this shit out again because the customers are still there.

It's a fight against windmills and i don't see a real way to win. Therefore i'm happy with the amount of progress in the western AAA market.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,212
I'm not really sure how this relates to the Bury Your Gays trope, but I went and looked at that stuff and it seems mostly fine. It happens three times total, and most of it is demonstrated by how much she loves grass pokemon as she's the grass gym leader, and she even takes the time to teach James how to properly take care of his Cacnea, and how to use it's moves better before he gives it to her as a thank you.

Her outfit that she was wearing there is kind of dumb as her undershirt exposes only her stomach, but it's literally the only outfit she's shown in both in the anime and the games :

200px-Gardenia_anime.png


Spr_Pt_Gardenia.png


I don't think she allowed Carnivine to bite her head either, but I always saw that as just a 1:1 comparison with James and how he always has a grass pokemon that bites his head. Some of it's a bit odd, but within the context of how she works with James and teaches him, it all seems fine.
It wasn't meant, it was just another thing I wanted to bring up, I should have made that more clear in my original post, sorry.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Actually... They don't. The real kind, with gravity-induced boobs, are seldom represented in games. What often is, however, are skinny women with inflatable balloons. I really wouldn't mind more representation of women with big boobs, but more often than not, designers just put some insanely large and heavy-yet-light-feathered boobs on the body of someone who should obviously not have bigger boobs than a B/C cup. Much like Red Monika (I love her despite that). And that often results in something hilariously bad and unrealistic, as if the person who designed those women, had never ever seen real big boobs in the first place. But yeah, I think real big breasted women are actually never really represented. Mostly because big breasted women come with fat in many other places than just in their boobs. And we wouldn't want non-skinny female characters in video games now, would we?

Apparently not since posters are now saying she's "chubby".
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,251
Hi, don't comment in this thread, mostly because I don't have much to add to the discussion or feel awkward discussing my sexuality or gender in public forums, but some of the rhetoric in the TLOU2 thread about the Bury your Gays trope really got uncomfortable for me and also there is something I've noticed when watching through the Pokemon anime that I don't see discussed much, the characterisation of Gardenia, the grass Gym leader in the 4th gen of the games.

I don't know if this was just a dub addition though given the reactions I doubt it but there she takes what I can only describe is near or VERY implied sexual pleasure in getting bitten, bullet seeded etc by grass type Pokemon, this is shown very clearly twice when she allow's James Carnivine bite her head (which I believe she even calls a hunk) and James Cacnea to bullet seed her back in the episode "The Grass-Type Is Always Greener!".

I don't know how to feel about this because besides from being so unexpected (and given how little I've seen mention of this online besides TVTropes I don't know I'm just seeing things) and because of the weird dynamics at play with this sort of this and what Pokemon are. This episode also has her without her Undershirt on for most of it which I would think would be just a colouring error if it wasn't for content I mentioned above.

Has anyone seen this episode? Am I just seeing things and what do you think?

I suppose that would explain that Ivysaur Vine Whip fanart that I've seen even in generally SFW places every now and again for the past decade.
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
Apparently not since posters are now saying she's "chubby".


She has the arms of a very thin girl who wouldn't weight more than 48kg. Chubby, she certainly ain't.
If her arms weren't so stick-thin, a fair argument could maybe be made about her being chubby. But as they look right now, this just makes her look disproportionate as hell. Even erotica models/actresses with big boobs don't have stick-thin arms, unless their boobs are mostly the result of plastic surgery. Arms are one of the most reliable visual giveaway of someone's actual body fat percentage.
 
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HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,573
That's unfortunately a DQ staple. The strongest armor for women is usually the skimpiest. In DQIII women got the strongest non plot armor which is the "Magic Bikini".
No ones strongest armor is a magic bikini and that's the only piece of "dq esque" armor for Serena. All the sexism in the game armor wise gets heaped onto Jade.
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,981
Somewhere.
Started playing Dragalia Lost for the 1st anniversary. Seems like a fun game that has a charming style, although looking at the list of female adventurers, oof. XD I don't even know where to start, but I do like these two for something that isn't really that sexualized.

 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,409
Beaumont, CA
The fanservice in Dragon Quest games has always been off putting to me and it's weird how mainstream the series is in Japan, thus normalizing this. Of course the bigger issue with the series is the creator and SE still working with that nationalist queerphobic composer.
I won't defend the sexualization, but in regards to the latter. Sylvando in XI is pretty damn great. A veritable middle finger to Sugiyama's homophobia. XIS also has "marriage" options with the male cast (I mean it's more of a domestic partnership living together thing than full fancy marriage, but for a conservative Japanese series, it's an admirable step forward).

Also DQ Rivals (mobile) has this.

2Q19ves.gif


And it can be done with Erik too.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,832
I won't defend the sexualization, but in regards to the latter. Sylvando in XI is pretty damn great. A veritable middle finger to Sugiyama's homophobia. XIS also has "marriage" options with the male cast (I mean it's more of a domestic partnership living together thing than full fancy marriage, but for a conservative Japanese series, it's an admirable step forward).

Also DQ Rivals (mobile) has this.

2Q19ves.gif


And it can be done with Erik too.
That's cute! I appreciate the little touch of the Luminary looking at him affectionately at the end.
 
I won't defend the sexualization, but in regards to the latter. Sylvando in XI is pretty damn great. A veritable middle finger to Sugiyama's homophobia. XIS also has "marriage" options with the male cast (I mean it's more of a domestic partnership living together thing than full fancy marriage, but for a conservative Japanese series, it's an admirable step forward).

Also DQ Rivals (mobile) has this.

2Q19ves.gif


And it can be done with Erik too.
I love that man.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
Started playing Dragalia Lost for the 1st anniversary. Seems like a fun game that has a charming style, although looking at the list of female adventurers, oof. XD I don't even know where to start, but I do like these two for something that isn't really that sexualized.
Heh, everyone loves Noelle.

Yeah, Dragalia Lost is a hugely mixed bag. Basically the entirety of the main cast of female characters (outside of Alex, who is either non-binary or at least a masculine-presenting lady) is of the "skinny with inexplicably large boobs" variety, and literally all the "strong" women (including axe-wielders like Julietta and Johanna and the fitness coach Celliera) lack muscles and instead have excessive T&A as indicators of their strong-ness. That's not even mentioning the outfits...

But then it has characters like Alex and Noelle and Sazanka, which doesn't really balance it out but at least makes it possible to build teams with more respectable designs. They gender bent the monk from the Journey to the West and somehow managed to not make her look trashy like the FGO version of the same (who is, sigh, dressed in a literal bikini), so hey, points for that.

Personally, though, my biggest issue with the game (besides the whole "hey, strong women = big tits amirite??" thing) is the sheer, naked sexism that comes from the protagonist being yet another stock standard male character. I have no bloody clue why Granblue Fantasy can do the dual protagonist thing but apparently that was out of the cards for Dragalia Lost. One of the most baffling things I've ever seen, especially considering the female protagonist in GBF is actually somewhat popular. I have no idea what the thought process behind that decision was...
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,981
Somewhere.
Heh, everyone loves Noelle.

Yeah, Dragalia Lost is a hugely mixed bag. Basically the entirety of the main cast of female characters (outside of Alex, who is either non-binary or at least a masculine-presenting lady) is of the "skinny with inexplicably large boobs" variety, and literally all the "strong" women (including axe-wielders like Julietta and Johanna and the fitness coach Celliera) lack muscles and instead have excessive T&A as indicators of their strong-ness. That's not even mentioning the outfits...

But then it has characters like Alex and Noelle and Sazanka, which doesn't really balance it out but at least makes it possible to build teams with more respectable designs. They gender bent the monk from the Journey to the West and somehow managed to not make her look trashy like the FGO version of the same (who is, sigh, dressed in a literal bikini), so hey, points for that.

Personally, though, my biggest issue with the game (besides the whole "hey, strong women = big tits amirite??" thing) is the sheer, naked sexism that comes from the protagonist being yet another stock standard male character. I have no bloody clue why Granblue Fantasy can do the dual protagonist thing but apparently that was out of the cards for Dragalia Lost. One of the most baffling things I've ever seen, especially considering the female protagonist in GBF is actually somewhat popular. I have no idea what the thought process behind that decision was...

Noelle was probably one of the few adventurers that I saw before checking out the game now heh heh. Hopefully I can get her and Sazanka sometime (at least Alex is a story character apparently). I kind of dig Botan too.

And yeah, I can agree that there should have been also a main princess to choose. More options are good.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,283
Started playing Dragalia Lost for the 1st anniversary. Seems like a fun game that has a charming style, although looking at the list of female adventurers, oof. XD I don't even know where to start, but I do like these two for something that isn't really that sexualized.
It gets bad for the dragons you collect as well. They appear like this
400px-210002_01_portrait.png

But turn into this
876478ae47106d584eeb7a558b11388ad67587d5r1-1024-1024v2_hq.jpg
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,029
It gets bad for the dragons you collect as well. They appear like this
400px-210002_01_portrait.png

But turn into this
876478ae47106d584eeb7a558b11388ad67587d5r1-1024-1024v2_hq.jpg
As someone who played it, Mym is unique in being both a dragon unlocked in story and a gatcha roll hero of the "disguise" form due to the story having her turn into a titty lady because she loves in love with the stale white bread main character. There's plenty of actual, good dragons but they are just event awards or gambling roll filler. I personally like Silke, for being a humanlike dragon that's actually interesting.
210015_01_portrait.png
 
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Here Granblue Dragon ladies
Npc_zoom_3040130000_02.png

Grea general a good character who is a genial soul and has a great relationship with her lady Ann

Npc_zoom_3040179000_02.png


Npc_zoom_3040122000_03.png

Npc_zoom_3040122000_01.png

We talked about the problem with a young lady being some sort of 1000 year old and Scathacha here is probably the only one I works cause she very in control and isn't put in a gross position. Her outfit is still a problem with the backless shirt and short skirt.
 
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