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Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
How do y'all feel about Greedfall atm?


According to a Kotaku preview of the game, you can romance any of the 4 companions.
I'll be taking along Aphra and Siora. As I understand it, they are ranged characters, so mine will need to settle for melee, but we'll see.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
Oh god dammit not flayn! Im only in month 9 and dont want any spoilers but i find flayn adorable now im scared. Also, noooo not Petra! I like her a lot so far D:
Petra's outfit turns into one of those "sexy tribal" lady outfits. And Eldelgard's top section looks somewhat vacuum sealed onto her.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
As a writer, it never ceases to amaze me how many people insert their own personal fantasies/fetishes into their work without the slightest trace of self-awareness...
It's very juvenile. I write too as a hobby and I can't imagine nor understand trying to make every character sexually appealing to me. Make them interesting not just a vehicle for your fetishes.

How do y'all feel about Greedfall atm?


According to a Kotaku preview of the game, you can romance any of the 4 companions.
I'll be taking along Aphra and Siora. As I understand it, they are ranged characters, so mine will need to settle for melee, but we'll see.

It's looking good and I'm very happy its female characters look much better than Spiders' previous entries. Granted I haven't played their latest game, The Technomancer.

Looks like they're taking up Bioware's mantle which is fitting since they've always been low budget Bioware. It's much needed since there aren't many rpg developers making those types of rpgs in the console space outside of Obsidian. And the last time they were able to make one on consoles was nearly a decade ago.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,522
How do y'all feel about Greedfall atm?


According to a Kotaku preview of the game, you can romance any of the 4 companions.
I'll be taking along Aphra and Siora. As I understand it, they are ranged characters, so mine will need to settle for melee, but we'll see.


Design wise, it's interesting. Trying to do the makeup and feathered wigs on fake western nobles is an interesting take.

I expect this game to be FUCKING TONE DEAF when it comes to actually tackling the idea of western expansion and...well...native genocide. But the characters look good, if not kind of uncanny valley.
 

Santerestil

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,314
Y's 8 had a free weekend and I've kind of been in the mood to play a Y's game since I watched someone play Y's 3 the other day.

Man, after a certain point, the women just stop wearing clothes huh.

26354361941_402a049115_o_thumb.jpg
Ah yes, the old Vampirella school of clothing.
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
Man, so.

Y's 8 had a free weekend and I've kind of been in the mood to play a Y's game since I watched someone play Y's 3 the other day.

Man, after a certain point, the women just stop wearing clothes huh.

26354361941_402a049115_o_thumb.jpg


My SO is currently playing it, and whenever we happen to look at eachother when that character comes up in a cutscene, we have this exasperated & awkward look on both our faces and no words need to be uttered, because we all know it's about that underboob top.

3KgMurZ.gif
 

Gaming_Groove

Member
Apr 4, 2018
2,813
So it's weird, right? Like...I get the whole, fake anime mesopotamia thing they're going for where everyone basically wears slings as regular clothes, it's hot, it's temperate, I get it, thin excuse for sexy outfits, whatever.

ys-viii-6.png

No shirt, leapord print bathing suit bottom, illfitting torn leggings, too large overalls that are about to fall off, 12 years old.

Who is this for?



Even Yoko Taro is like, "I was horny".

They're good, sexy designs that are INCREDIBLY out of place and result in sort of painting the last bastion of humanity as being a bunch of maids.

Most of the themes explored in Nier Automata are pretty much undercut by the fact that they spent so much fucking time on 2B's ass, especially the otherwise very good sidequest about a certain boss who hates the way she looks because she can't attract the attention of a certain asshole, so she goes through revision after revision after revision to make herself beautiful. Then two seconds later, the camera basically gives 2B a colonoscopy because "the moment is over, find the protags as sex objects again plox."
Are you talking about the Simone boss fight? I don't remember the camera being a problem in that scene, so I'm trying to remember what you might be referring to.



In general gameplay the camera makes it pretty difficult to look up 2B's skirt since panning the camera up moves it towards her waist (though it's pretty simple to actually remove the skirt altogether, and that's not even considering the existence of A2, so... =\). I'm generally of two minds about the sexualization in the game because of its themes. Like, clearly there's a large fetishistic influence in the designs, and that in itself is pretty problematic. On the other hand, the story is also clearly exploring concepts about existentialism and humanity, and sexuality and gender identity are big parts of being human, so to some degree I think provocative designs can jive with those concepts.

At the very least, in an industry and genre where studios expect people to take Velvet Crowe seriously when she's dressed like this:

latest


2B (and probably NieR as a whole) is probably not the worst offender. Soul Calibur and her treatment in it is quite a different story though.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
I was typing up a response, but Warrior of Light said everything I was going to already. The original Nier wasn't exactly a blockbuster, in fact it had a very niche following. And even Platinum games don't sell particularly well overall. So to me the breakthrough factor lies somewhere else.
If 2B's butt was the game's selling point, how come Nier: replicant/gestalt never got #1 in selling charts?
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
If 2B's butt was the game's selling point, how come Nier: replicant/gestalt never got #1 in selling charts?

You mean because of Kaine? She wasn't really marketed that much, was she? When I bought the game back when, I don't think I even knew she existed. Sure, she shows off her ass just like 2B does, but they never put it front and center.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
I very much doubt 2B's ass/thighs were the thing that pushed Automata to, what, 2,5-4 million copies sold? That kind of blatantly sexualized content is generally fairly niche. Stuff that sells in the 50k-300k range, not something that turns something into a multimillion seller. I think they just generally hit a cool visual style (not including the sexual pandering), an interesting, tragic setting/story + for once mostly good gameplay thanks to Platinum. There was also a bit of a resurgence of Japanese games in the West during this generation, and Nier Automata was just the type of game a lot of fans of Japanese games were looking for. Also, the first Nier had become such a cult classic that I feel that alone was enough to push a new Nier game into a larger public consciousness and got people to check the game out, especially as Automata was getting really positive impressions from almost everyone.

So... more like a combination of things that happened to create a perfect storm for Automata breaking through to wider public acclaim & success. 2B's ass probably being fairly low on the list of importance to its success (though her general appeal is of probably some importance, waist up she has a fairly cool design ). All in all I'd say the game succeeded despite the pandering, not because of it.
 
So, no thoughts on this?
I think many of use of caught up with a few things.
What I can say is it using the Japanese manners of bathing as a excuse for titillation when having women in the scene.

Petra's outfit turns into one of those "sexy tribal" lady outfits. And Eldelgard's top section looks somewhat vacuum sealed onto her.
There a alot of vacuum sealed outfits for many of the FE:3H women.
Petra time skip outfit does approach a mismatch of island cultures but I think it a fitting style. Didn't really need the bare back.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,378
I mean, it sucks and is awful but like...it's kind have been the norm for those art scenes for a while? This one is just the most blatant.
I think many of use of caught up with a few things.
What I can say is it using the Japanese manners of bathing as a excuse for titillation when having women in the scene.
Did you guys watch it? It's mainly male skin that's shown! That's why I was surprised. My expectations totally subverted.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Did you guys watch it? It's mainly male skin that's shown! That's why I was surprised. My expectations totally subverted.

You mean the fact that both Ryu and Rashid are shown without the towel? Because that isn't that impressive in how its shown. Especially that scene in the end where a lot of the women are drawn in a way to entice while both Ryu and Rasid get silly guys that are nearly nude scenes.
 

Yabberwocky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,260



I haven't played Monster Hunter World yet, so I don't know if the character has shown up previously, but I was far more excited than I should be to see an older, sensibly dressed woman playing a seemingly prominent role in the expansion.

(That being said, I haven't been too impressed with the player character armor designs in the past with Monster Hunter, so I have no idea if that'll be improved with Iceborne. Hope springs eternal and all that.)
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246



I haven't played Monster Hunter World yet, so I don't know if the character has shown up previously, but I was far more excited than I should be to see an older, sensibly dressed woman playing a seemingly prominent role in the expansion.

(That being said, I haven't been too impressed with the player character armor designs in the past with Monster Hunter, so I have no idea if that'll be improved with Iceborne. Hope springs eternal and all that.)


The older lady? She's new. But yea, with MHW, there's been a clash between player wearable armor (which has issues) and story characters (who are fine).
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
The discourse and appreciation for creators like Kojima, Square, and others sort of stems from the PS1 and PS2 era where console video game storytelling was just starting to grow from the level of Saturday morning cartoons. People took MGS1 and FFVII and the first few Resident Evil games seriously because console video games just hadn't even mentioned any of those themes before. The people who got those ideas into packaged games first got heaped with praise and they're still running on that inertia today, no matter how insane or nonsensical those stories and games might actually be by the standards of literally any other medium.

Another part of it is that Sony is probably desperate to heap Kojima up as a major feather in its cap -- another weapon in the console wars against Microsoft which, honestly, has had the air of something like the toy industry for decades now.

Edit: There's another thread about this now. Fukushima is the other guy's name. He co-wrote MGS 1-3, and some fans try to point out differences in the depiction of female characters in the games Fukushima wasn't involved in, as if he's the Lawrence Kasdan to Kojima's George Lucas or something.
 
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Woodbeam

Member
May 6, 2019
687
I'm going to repost something I wrote in the Death Stranding gameplay reveal thread, because it's relevant and also seems to have gone under the radar. About the scene with Deadman:
The bridge baby origin story and the "stillmothers" concept is some seriously gross stuff. So there's at least one, but presumably multiple braindead women at this hospital at the capitol, who became pregnant or maybe were already pregnant before becoming braindead and had their children "physically removed." Somehow the conditions in their wombs are being monitored so that the babies can be tricked into thinking they're still there. This is nuts because it would require the conditions in the womb to remain how they were in pregnancy post partum indefinitely - I don't know if this is currently possible medically but in this sci fi setting I wouldn't be surprised if they think they can handwave it. Also, these babies have to be produced in numbers, which implies all sorts of additional horrific things.

So we've got braindead women who are somehow also pregnant (how that happens in the first place could have some terrible implications), they have their children removed, have sensors put into their wombs, are kept in a constant state of real or simulated pregnancy, and are presumably kept alive for this sole purpose, all on a possibly large scale.

I'm not saying the game is putting this forward as something acceptable, but it's not really acknowledged either. Our empathy is instead guided towards the baby, who Sam shows concern for. Perhaps this concept will be confronted elsewhere in the game, but I'm skeptical because of the immediate lack of care here, and also because of how truly dark it is. Ironic that Kojima seems to have stumbled upon something that truly is taboo unknowingly, as a background element and sci fi mumbo jumbo justification for story and gameplay elements.
I haven't seen any discussion on this, but it stuck out to me when watching the scene. It's only talked about in passing, just another bit of jargon worldbuilding used mainly to give the narrative an aura of cool. It doesn't feel malicious, but it definitely isn't considerate. I'm a fan of a lot of Kojima's games, and it's really disappointing to see him continue to fall down like this. At least this time one could argue it's more a lack of basic rigor in his writing rather than open, clearly intentional pandering. Small victories?

I'd also like to take the chance to say thanks to the people who created and have continued this thread. You're all wonderful.
 

ValKiryuSonicEX

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,260
That's a part of the concept I hadn't considered to be honest, it sounds like a lot of layers to explore (or rather explain) and who knows if they're going to touch upon it further in-game.

While I love MGS and its goofy as shit. I feel as though and I say that with respect.. that's a pretty bad way to interact with with fictional media. A lot of fictional media is you take out of its own context is fucking nonsense. But the whole thing is that it captures your imagination and allows you to enter that work.

Star Trek is a fanatstic example of " this is fucking nonse techno babble " and being an excellent series of shows presenting great ideas. Like if you want to criticize kojima for a myriad of other things including and not limited to " Some racism " " Mysogony " " Poor representation of LGBTQ characters " " litterally needing someone to hit him over the head with a newspaper so he doesn't over oggle women in the games he makes " " The entierty of quiet " " The message that sends that the only super soilders seem to be white people ( Though to his credit MGSV is dedicated to telling that boss is just some dude who worked real hard ). Along with a character named raiden ( who I love ) who comes from Libya and is a cool soilder, and what could have been oppertunity to introduce a cool combat oriented cool guy in MGS, he's white " " Multiple instances as using rape inappropriately as a sort of shock sting " and much much more.

But his weird fiction science doesn't work right? Like I dunno who cares?

For MGS1, I think the bunk science would kind of muddy up the message Kojima was trying to make with people not letting something like their genes dictate what they can or can't do. It's just kind of odd in the implementation, and maybe Kojima should've done some research. Sometimes, it might break the suspension of disbelief...like with Quiet, speaking of which, I kind do enjoy this video breaking down the science of that shoddy explanation:



Fake science to explain errors or situations, good or bad, is always going to exist in fiction, it's just situations where it is used poorly to justify/mask obviously egregious intents should be called out.
 

MainMain

Alt-Account
Banned
Jun 16, 2019
232
Shujin Academy
Fire Emblem made me cringe all the way. Most female fighter classes exposing their one leg or skin. Unable to become a warmaster. The Flayn issue as have already been pointed out. Prehistoric notions about women and their interests. Pronounced cleavages post time skip with shittier designs. Petras design got much worse..

I married Leonie as she was the less typical female character but the game had to show off her cleavage in the last pic as if I was looking from the second floor down at her. Seriously f*** Intelligence systems. They will not ever be progressive. Tired of people cheering for them toning a bit down the skin exposure or boob socks. Most female characters are treated as either manipulative, hysterical, motherly or whatever. I do think most characters were rubbish but were more disappointed with the female archetypes they make.
Look at it this way: at least we got yaoi men in the game like the Persona series. I needed more shipping fuel anyways, less for the women and more for the men.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Real glad in that Kojima thread we got people saying that showing Kojima's historic problems with women in his games are just proof we "don't understand his vision" and "we don't really care about women because why don't we do real work" garbage excuses. Like, you can like a person and still criticize his work.
 

Deleted member 49179

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2018
4,140
That's a part of the concept I hadn't considered to be honest, it sounds like a lot of layers to explore (or rather explain) and who knows if they're going to touch upon it further in-game.



For MGS1, I think the bunk science would kind of muddy up the message Kojima was trying to make with people not letting something like their genes dictate what they can or can't do. It's just kind of odd in the implementation, and maybe Kojima should've done some research. Sometimes, it might break the suspension of disbelief...like with Quiet, speaking of which, I kind do enjoy this video breaking down the science of that shoddy explanation:



Fake science to explain errors or situations, good or bad, is always going to exist in fiction, it's just situations where it is used poorly to justify/mask obviously egregious intents should be called out.


When it's done well, I have absolutely nothing against shoddy science in games (or fiction). Hey, let's have some fun! Why not? Like you say, it's always going to happen in fiction. Imagination is good. But you're totally right to say that when it's used to mask obviously egregious intents (conscious or not) it should be called out.

You got the idea of having a character who breathe through her skin? Sure! Might be fun. But what is done with that idea is entirely in the hand of the creator. There is nothing that requires this skin breathing woman to dress in a "combat bikini", and have her roll around in water puddles.

And it's the same about messages in games. You have a deeper message you would like to communicate through your work? That's cool! But what you do to communicate this message is entirely in your hand. For example, to communicate a message about the senseless cruelty of war, there's nothing requiring you to have the audience watch a young-looking woman being raped by a child, body-shamed, and then explode because of a bomb in her vagina. It doesn't really communicate anything about war, it just communicates how you fetishized the pain of this female character, and the misogynistic ways you treated one of the only women in the game (or the only woman in the game in the case of Ground Zeroes, if I remember correctly).
 
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Gaming_Groove

Member
Apr 4, 2018
2,813
I'm sure I'll get some heat for my post in that thread...I have a real problem with him being credited for pioneering cinematic storytelling when it was already being done and was likely inevitable anyway...

Also, yeah, regarding his treatment of women in his games, I've already said my piece on that in this thread. It's pretty abominable. =\
 

Frida Kahlo

Member
Apr 16, 2018
26
Bandai announced today, that the new Dragon Ball game will have an original character called Bonyu, she's an ex-Ginyu Force member (supposedly the first and only known female member):
Dragon-Ball-Z-Kakarot_2019_08-21-19_001.png


My take is that while I'm not a fan of her as of right now (gonna have to wait for more info), at least Toriyama is using another body type and is one of his least problematic designs!
...And I know the series is all about making puns, but it's weird that her name means breast milk in Japanese, and it was greenlighted...
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,361
I'm sure I'll get some heat for my post in that thread...I have a real problem with him being credited for pioneering cinematic storytelling when it was already being done and was likely inevitable anyway...
I'll back you up on Panzer Dragoon Saga, it's also the first game that comes to mind when I think about cinematic experience. I wasn't sure if it came out before MGS though haha, I thought they were roughly at the same time.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Bandai announced today, that the new Dragon Ball game will have an original character called Bonyu, she's an ex-Ginyu Force member (supposedly the first and only known female member):
Dragon-Ball-Z-Kakarot_2019_08-21-19_001.png


My take is that while I'm not a fan of her as of right now (gonna have to wait for more info), at least Toriyama is using another body type and is one of his least problematic designs!
...And I know the series is all about making puns, but it's weird that her name means breast milk in Japanese, and it was greenlighted...
It also goes against the naming trend of the original Ginyu force members-
Jheese = Cheese
Ghurt = Yoghurt
Recoome = C(oo)ream
Burter = Butter

They're named after diary products dangit, you should've kept the trend!
 

Gaming_Groove

Member
Apr 4, 2018
2,813
I'll back you up on Panzer Dragoon Saga, it's also the first game that comes to mind when I think about cinematic experience. I wasn't sure if it came out before MGS though haha, I thought they were roughly at the same time.
Yeah, and it's certainly not the only cinematic game that was out or in development around then. I mean, Shenmue was years along by then as well. It's pretty hard to argue that Kojima revolutionized cinematic storytelling in games...he's more just a participant in a movement that was already happening. I believe that people just think of him because MGS is the first game they encountered that started to implement these principles.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,906
Bandai announced today, that the new Dragon Ball game will have an original character called Bonyu, she's an ex-Ginyu Force member (supposedly the first and only known female member):
Dragon-Ball-Z-Kakarot_2019_08-21-19_001.png


My take is that while I'm not a fan of her as of right now (gonna have to wait for more info), at least Toriyama is using another body type and is one of his least problematic designs!
...And I know the series is all about making puns, but it's weird that her name means breast milk in Japanese, and it was greenlighted...
Man, the description prior to the reveal of this design was all about how she's SooOoOoO busty. I am relieved!
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
I'll back you up on Panzer Dragoon Saga, it's also the first game that comes to mind when I think about cinematic experience. I wasn't sure if it came out before MGS though haha, I thought they were roughly at the same time.

IMO nobody can talk about "Cinematic" video games without mentioning the way in which King's Quest actively adopted the storytelling of the Disney renaissance. In 1992. Hell I argued in one of those other threads that one of the reasons MGS is the way it is, is that it is literally derived from PC action-adventure game tradition (Metal Gear was originally on MSX, as was the even more traditional adventure game of Snatcher).

It's just that MGS was the first cinematic game on a console with a better attach rate (outside Japan at least) than the Sega CD, and was at least far less focused on menu navigation than was typical for games with that focus
 

ValKiryuSonicEX

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,260
Real glad in that Kojima thread we got people saying that showing Kojima's historic problems with women in his games are just proof we "don't understand his vision" and "we don't really care about women because why don't we do real work" garbage excuses. Like, you can like a person and still criticize his work.

Pretty much, like yea some people will criticize out of negativity, but really most criticism is meant to point out a problem/issue that you think should be addressed or at least discussed, mostly for improvement purposes or outright necessity.

I'm sure I'll get some heat for my post in that thread...I have a real problem with him being credited for pioneering cinematic storytelling when it was already being done and was likely inevitable anyway...

Also, yeah, regarding his treatment of women in his games, I've already said my piece on that in this thread. It's pretty abominable. =\
I'll back you up on Panzer Dragoon Saga, it's also the first game that comes to mind when I think about cinematic experience. I wasn't sure if it came out before MGS though haha, I thought they were roughly at the same time.
Yeah, and it's certainly not the only cinematic game that was out or in development around then. I mean, Shenmue was years along by then as well. It's pretty hard to argue that Kojima revolutionized cinematic storytelling in games...he's more just a participant in a movement that was already happening. I believe that people just think of him because MGS is the first game they encountered that started to implement these principles.

I'll agree with PDS, it's great...but yea, it seems Kojima just popularized cinematic games rather than invent them as is the case with a number of popular conventions associated with him. I could swear some people credit him with putting mo-cap in games (I could be wrong) when fighting games were doing it before him.

Kind of like how people credit Shenmue (and I love it and Yu Suzuki) with QTEs, but Die Hard Arcade did it earlier (probably could argue FMV games did it first).
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Pretty much, like yea some people will criticize out of negativity, but really most criticism is meant to point out a problem/issue that you think should be addressed or at least discussed, mostly for improvement purposes or outright necessity.





I'll agree with PDS, it's great...but yea, it seems Kojima just popularized cinematic games rather than invent them as is the case with a number of popular conventions associated with him. I could swear some people credit him with putting mo-cap in games (I could be wrong) when fighting games were doing it before him.

Kind of like how people credit Shenmue (and I love it and Yu Suzuki) with QTEs, but Die Hard Arcade did it earlier (probably could argue FMV games did it first).
THe mention of FMV games have me war flashbacks to Dragon's Lair and the main characters stubborn refusal to listen to the input.
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,265
It also goes against the naming trend of the original Ginyu force members-
Jheese = Cheese
Ghurt = Yoghurt
Recoome = C(oo)ream
Burter = Butter

They're named after diary products dangit, you should've kept the trend!
... oh damn that's why its milk!
... why'd it have to be breast milk haha.
 

Zero-ELEC

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,565
México
Bandai announced today, that the new Dragon Ball game will have an original character called Bonyu, she's an ex-Ginyu Force member (supposedly the first and only known female member):
Dragon-Ball-Z-Kakarot_2019_08-21-19_001.png


My take is that while I'm not a fan of her as of right now (gonna have to wait for more info), at least Toriyama is using another body type and is one of his least problematic designs!
...And I know the series is all about making puns, but it's weird that her name means breast milk in Japanese, and it was greenlighted...

What's hilarious is that everyone in the other thread is like "I don't like her, she looks bad" and when pressed as to why nobody responds...
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,278
Bandai announced today, that the new Dragon Ball game will have an original character called Bonyu, she's an ex-Ginyu Force member (supposedly the first and only known female member):
Dragon-Ball-Z-Kakarot_2019_08-21-19_001.png


My take is that while I'm not a fan of her as of right now (gonna have to wait for more info), at least Toriyama is using another body type and is one of his least problematic designs!
...And I know the series is all about making puns, but it's weird that her name means breast milk in Japanese, and it was greenlighted...

lmao she wanna be lizzo so bad
t6s10pR.jpg
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
Yeah, and it's certainly not the only cinematic game that was out or in development around then. I mean, Shenmue was years along by then as well. It's pretty hard to argue that Kojima revolutionized cinematic storytelling in games...he's more just a participant in a movement that was already happening. I believe that people just think of him because MGS is the first game they encountered that started to implement these principles.
I honestly think that games becoming cinematic has only hurt them. It gives them more "cred" maybe, but it's pretty literally antithetical to being a game. My thinking whenever this gets brought up is, "why not just make a movie?" It's one of the things that really frustrates me about the move to disc-based games. Movies became practically de-facto, and I think that legacy has not aged well.

Or more straightforwardly, why would I want to watch a movie while playing a video game? I haven't played a video game where a cinematic cutscene wasn't jarring unless it was at the beginning or the end of the game (because at least in those instances you can use the excuse of it trying to establish a mood or tone - though I still think it's got nothing on games like Chrono Trigger, where you get to actually play during your end game, even if it's limited). And I feel like if it hasn't been done in the thirty+ years since their inception, it's probably because it's something that's just never gelled very well with video games as a media.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
Outside of MGS I'm generally not big on cutscene-driven games. It helps that the actual gameplay loop is usually really well done in those games and it doesn't feel like you're only playing for the story. I otherwise prefer text-based RPGs (or partially voiced like Persona) for story-heavy games.

Kojima's bullshit is pretty damn wacky but as far as Japanese genre fiction goes I think the original MGS1-4 mostly stack up, very few games have the rich political subtext of that series, with a lot of cases of predicting the future (namely the MGS2 Patriots and emphasis on drone warfare in MGS4). They openly critique and analyze the military industrial complex in a way very, very few war-based media does.

That said it's clear Kojima's ability to characterize women in his games has only gotten worse and worse since MGS4 or so. I really think he means well and admire a lot of his work and thoughts about the world but god damn he could use an editor.
 
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Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
At the very least, in an industry and genre where studios expect people to take Velvet Crowe seriously when she's dressed like this:

latest


2B (and probably NieR as a whole) is probably not the worst offender. Soul Calibur and her treatment in it is quite a different story though.

See, I'm torn (pun intended?) on Velvet's design. I love the whole ragged goth look and I feel like the actual game does a good job not putting her too much in the male gaze; the outfit is just kind of there. And she's just a cool character with agency that doesn't feel like she exists to titilate JRPG fans who love submissive, squeamish little girls.

That said... yeah, probably not the best design choice for the first female lead of a Tales game. There was this touchup to her design that does a good job downplaying the sexualization while still keeping the #aesthetic:

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