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sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Anyway, that's my experience. It made me wonder if outlawing these kinds of hyper sexualized designs could actually result in the opposite effect of what people who hate sexualization in games desire. If you think this is dumb, pls ignore what I wrote. 🙈
No. For at least two major reasons. First, you're in the minority. There's a group of extremely vocal angry men who have complained every time Lara's model was improved to make her look more realistic, instead of more voyeuristic and fantastic.

Second, women don't want the sexualization to stop so that horny men stop playing the game. It has nothing to do with them. It's so that we feel represented in games we play. I don't want to play as a half-naked, outlandishly large-breasted Lara. I have before, when that was the only option, but I will choose new Lara every time to represent someone who feels more like me, whom I can relate to, whom I can aspire to.

This isn't about men.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
So I tried to explain it for myself and reached the following conclusion: Old Lara Croft is so over-the-top sexualized that it actually makes it easier ignore the design because it's just some cartoonish, rudiculous character model.
I mean the Eidos marketing department cashed in on Lara's sex appeal in the 90s so her design was far from ignored then.
 

spiritfox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
That's kind of besides the point. Yes, a lot of depictions of muscular people are inaccurate due to the excessively low body fat %s displayed, but there is a particular bent towards never displaying women with muscle mass OR muscle definition.

I want equality, and that means I'm willing to accept liberties taken for style or flair over realism if it means being treated the same way as the men get treated. If the men get rippling bodies with stupidly low fat percentages then I want to see the women get the same treatment too. We can then address the unreality of it all separately, as a whole.

Believe me, I am no stranger to this particular problem in popular media:

As an aside, I wish this type of male body is more common in games. It seems like any time there's a muscular man, they either have a full pack of abs or a pot belly, no in-between. Realistically, you don't get defined abs from just doing stuff like fighting or punching monsters or whatever we do in games, you have to specifically work towards it.

Sorry for diverging from the main topic, this picture just reminded me of that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,511
Bandung Indonesia
The new Fire Emblem game seems nice in terms of costume designs for female characters.

Well, there are still misfire here and there but generally speaking, they seem ok. Especially for character classes like Knights and whatnots.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,511
Bandung Indonesia
Idk if I should make a separate thread for this question but what games do you guys think has the best diversity and representation of different women? (such as age, race, body types, disablities/illnesses or personalities being represented?)

Suikoden series is good for this.

Somehow it rarely gets a mention though. Well, I guess the fact that the series is dead is a large part of it :(
 
I just wanted to point this thread out here, cuz I know I've seen guys come in here before and try to use the argument that men are just more visually stimulated as an excuse and defense for why female characters are so sexualized and male characters almost never are:

Finally proof that it's just another BS excuse.
That is some ass pull study as well as another excuse to avoid proper discussion.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,701
Brazil
Hey thread I just came here to not say anything except you guys suck
WHat you guys want me to explain why? no I am not wasting my breath explaining why
but I will also reply to everyone because I am wasting my breath to other stuff.
also you guys suck and I respect you.

like what is the person even TRYING to accomplish coming to post here ?
 

Jotakori

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,184
That is some ass pull study as well as another excuse to avoid proper discussion.
I mean, I find proper discussion hard in the first place when a dude tries to shut it down with, 'well it's that way cuz men like visuals so much, and for women it's all mental so what does it matter if the sexualization is disproportionate anyway!'
Which I have seen happen before in these threads.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Hey thread I just came here to not say anything except you guys suck
WHat you guys want me to explain why? no I am not wasting my breath explaining why
but I will also reply to everyone because I am wasting my breath to other stuff.
also you guys suck and I respect you.

like what is the person even TRYING to accomplish coming to post here ?
Most of the time it seems like someone who is reading the thread but hasn't been accepted into the forum yet, so when they do get accepted they feel overwhelmed on what they should begin with so they end up making a fool of themselves and getting banned.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
I just wanted to point this thread out here, cuz I know I've seen guys come in here before and try to use the argument that men are just more visually stimulated as an excuse and defense for why female characters are so sexualized and male characters almost never are:

Finally proof that it's just another BS excuse.
All the study seems to indicate is that the same area of the brain is activated in women and men (i.e., sexual material activates X area of the brain in both women and men). The rest of it seems to be people reading more into the study than is actually there.
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
Honestly that study is hilarious. Of course women can as easily get aroused as men do. I know I do.
But hey, glad we cleared that out and can move on to other things.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,701
Brazil
9bOnAhh.png


 

Gaming_Groove

Member
Apr 4, 2018
2,813
As an aside, I wish this type of male body is more common in games. It seems like any time there's a muscular man, they either have a full pack of abs or a pot belly, no in-between. Realistically, you don't get defined abs from just doing stuff like fighting or punching monsters or whatever we do in games, you have to specifically work towards it.

Sorry for diverging from the main topic, this picture just reminded me of that.
Right, you get abs from being in a calorie deficit long enough to lower your body fat to the point that they show. When you see professional bodybuilders on show day they are literally at their weakest because they have been running in the negative for energy for months. I'm definitely much stronger at 200lbs and 20% body fat than I am at 175lbs with visible abs.

Anyway, I do agree with Laiza (unsurprisingly) that it's a separate issue from the lack of representation and visual depictions of physically strong female characters. So often we are just told that women are strong or shown it through their feats while they still look like muscle-less twigs or porn stars. Having the hard work a character goes through to become strong reflected in their physique goes a long way in characterization.

On a somewhat related note, for all of their other design problems, my girlfriend was actually quite surprised by the amount of muscle definition on the new Viera models in FFXIV. She recently race changed to one after being an Au Ra for a long time. She noticed it when she was asking me to help her decide on a hairstyle and saw her character's delts/triceps:



They also have some core/abdominal definition, all of which her Au Ra completely lacked. I don't play FFXIV myself, and from what I've seen it has a lot of other issues (if I played with her I'd love to be a male Viera, but we know how that went), but it was something we found pretty interesting.

Monster Hunter World does a good job with depicting realistically strong looking men and women from a physique standpoint, though the armor designs can still be pretty sketchy. My girlfriend and I had an extensive discussion about it when she came across some mods that change the female character model to have slimmer legs and a larger bust.
 
May 9, 2019
850
That's from OneAngryGamer. The same person who thought MK was going to flop because the female characters didn't have balloon boobs.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,135
bnbeJvU.jpg


Everything they've shown of Kait has been so good. I'm not even annoyed that her hair is bloodless.
 

ZugZug123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,412
Re: the Viera, I remember the first time I saw an image of them and went "Dang they really went all in with the Playboy Bunny aesthetic. I thought FF was better than this". The fact they did not introduce male Viera to FF14 just confirms to me this race was created just to titillate straight guys. Ugh...
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196

Who knew that beautiful women were in short supply in media?


considering this is a preview article, I'm kind of appalled Nintendo has someone like him on their mailing list. They're pretty selective about who gets review codes.

it'd be one thing of this was their first gross article, but as people have already pointed out, it seems it goes pretty deep
 
considering this is a preview article, I'm kind of appalled Nintendo has someone like him on their mailing list. They're pretty selective about who gets review codes.

it'd be one thing of this was their first gross article, but as people have already pointed out, it seems it goes pretty deep
Makes you wonder who Nintendo black list and who they don't.
I would also like to add that Nintendo has been releasing game in the same way as steam with if they don't have extreme AO rating their ok.
 
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Shingi_70

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,782
considering this is a preview article, I'm kind of appalled Nintendo has someone like him on their mailing list. They're pretty selective about who gets review codes.

it'd be one thing of this was their first gross article, but as people have already pointed out, it seems it goes pretty deep

They didn't get a review code, in the article they say they're preview is based on watching someone else's YouTube play through.
 
They didn't get a review code, in the article they say they're preview is based on watching someone else's YouTube play through.
Ok, that changes a lot of things.
1. Nintendo are in the ok as long as they don't supporting people like them.
2. That sad that their coverage is base on watching someone and not playing themselves. Which makes me wonder if alot of atl-right/anti SJW content creators are off hand experience and not having hands on. Explains why many of their opinions sound/written poorly and lack understanding.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,416
The English Wilderness
Ok, that changes a lot of things.
1. Nintendo are in the ok as long as they don't supporting people like them.
2. That sad that their coverage is base on watching someone and not playing themselves. Which makes me wonder if alot of atl-right/anti SJW content creators are off hand experience and not having hands on. Explains why many of their opinions sound/written poorly and lack understanding.
A lot of alt-right content creators are just men who spied a gap in the market and created a persona to fill it. Just look at these figures when they crop up elsewhere: they don't actually believe the shite they spout, they just want the attention/profit.
 
A lot of alt-right content creators are just men who spied a gap in the market and created a persona to fill it. Just look at these figures when they crop up elsewhere: they don't actually believe the shite they spout, they just want the attention/profit.
But there are a few who believe in their BS most cause of they only ever go surface level of research or knowledge. It how many using the excuse of different culture to avoid being critical on the problems of female character design and behavior.
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I've joked in the past that Monster Hunter warriors fight with weapons the size of a lamp post, but that's ridiculous.
 

Griselbrand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,242
Re: the Viera, I remember the first time I saw an image of them and went "Dang they really went all in with the Playboy Bunny aesthetic. I thought FF was better than this". The fact they did not introduce male Viera to FF14 just confirms to me this race was created just to titillate straight guys. Ugh...

Au Ra men are tall and fearsome looking due to their horns and scales. Au Ra women are very petite, even compared to the other races. They used the excuse of sexual dimorphism to give an in game justification for the stark visual difference but I suspect it was for this very same reason. The original concept art made both the men and women tall and lithe with sharp claws but this was changed somewhere along the way.
 

ZugZug123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,412
Au Ra men are tall and fearsome looking due to their horns and scales. Au Ra women are very petite, even compared to the other races. They used the excuse of sexual dimorphism to give an in game justification for the stark visual difference but I suspect it was for this very same reason. The original concept art made both the men and women tall and lithe with sharp claws but this was changed somewhere along the way.
That's why I went Roegadyn, my green girl has her height slider all the way up and looks tough and buff. Still has the face of a model XD
 

CatDoggo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
775
Man, could you imagine the firestorm that would happen if the next Persona game was female MC only. I can't even recall how many times I was told that it's their 'artistic vision' that they don't want to give us FemC options in Persona games post-P3P, but boy would that narrative go out the window in a second if they weren't given the option to play as a dude and romance damn near every woman they come across in the game. I know that there's less than a zero chance of that happening cause Atlus is going to chase those waifu bucks to the bank, but it's the fact that they're so committed to never giving us a FemC option again after the stellar one we got in P3P, along with some of the other crappy material they put in the games, that's largely turned me off the Persona series after loving Persona 3 so much.

I've always heard that Persona 2 is really good about its FemC as well. It's too bad that I just find it too archaic to get into nowadays.
 
Man, could you imagine the firestorm that would happen if the next Persona game was female MC only. I can't even recall how many times I was told that it's their 'artistic vision' that they don't want to give us FemC options in Persona games post-P3P, but boy would that narrative go out the window in a second if they weren't given the option to play as a dude and romance damn near every woman they come across in the game. I know that there's less than a zero chance of that happening cause Atlus is going to chase those waifu bucks to the bank, but it's the fact that they're so committed to never giving us a FemC option again after the stellar one we got in P3P, along with some of the other crappy material they put in the games, that's largely turned me off the Persona series after loving Persona 3 so much.

I've always heard that Persona 2 is really good about its FemC as well. It's too bad that I just find it too archaic to get into nowadays.
We can hope with their new team on the Persona project. Given that their part of Sega and the Yakuza team has done well with it writing maybe they can share some stuff around. Not to say the Yakuza team is perfect but are a little more mindful of their characters.
 
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Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Reminder that magic the gathering continues to have badass women
D_9ookcWkAApS8H.jpg

Rowan kenrith from the upcoming set

That's why I went Roegadyn, my green girl has her height slider all the way up and looks tough and buff. Still has the face of a model XD
My roegadyn queen is full muscles but i kept her height at around 2 meters. Just didnt feel like making her taller but having been 10+ hours in the gsme i can still edit her to be taller right?
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,405
My roegadyn queen is full muscles but i kept her height at around 2 meters. Just didnt feel like making her taller but having been 10+ hours in the gsme i can still edit her to be taller right?
You can only edit hair, makeup, and facial features via haircuts, using in-game currency. Fantasias (character editors) cost real money, but you get one for free when you finish the ARR storyline.
 
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