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RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,102
Armchair historians are one of most ill-informed hobby groups out there. The problem is that these people tend to read the historical record on a shallow level, often relying on information of poor accuracy. Combine that with the Dunning-Kreuger effect where the people who know the least about a subject feel the strongest about their grasp on it, and the tendency to only use any information they learn to reinforce their prejudices, and you get the mess that an awful lot of Total War fans belong to.

I got a sense of this when I read SPQR by Mary Beard (the woman you may have heard of from a twitter fight with people criticizing a depiction of an African Roman soldier in some cartoon). The book not only goes into what we know about a period of ancient Rome, but how we know what we know about it -- what the actual original sources are and what the archaeology tells us.

The biggest implication of this in the book is that we really know jack shit about Rome prior to maybe the 4th century BC (which I think is the point where Rome Total War campaigns start), but a ton of people parrot stories about the original kings of Rome and the tradition that it was founded in the 7th or 8th century BC as if it's historical fact. Even the Wiki articles on Rome do this.

Also how Hollywood and other forms of media present them too. There was a video that was made about the Burning of Alexandria and the myths that came out about and how there were also, but also in the video, the presenter showed various YouTubers spouting very similar stuff and told them they were not actually given any factual evidence but something that was in a said in the tv series Cosmos by Carl Sagan and other non-historical sources. People get their infomantion about history from media and not historical information and when they do, it tends to riddle with mistakes.

This has got me thinking about all the history videos I like to watch on YouTube. They usually seem to extensively report their sources though, and those sources are usually thick books on the subjects of each video. They're probably a step above people on some forums.
 

ShadowSwordmaster

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,476
I got a sense of this when I read SPQR by Mary Beard (the woman you may have heard of from a twitter fight with people criticizing a depiction of an African Roman soldier in some cartoon). The book not only goes into what we know about a period of ancient Rome, but how we know what we know about it -- what the actual original sources are and what the archaeology tells us.

The biggest implication of this in the book is that we really know jack shit about Rome prior to maybe the 4th century BC (which I think is the point where Rome Total War campaigns start), but a ton of people parrot stories about the original kings of Rome and the tradition that it was founded in the 7th or 8th century BC as if it's historical fact. Even the Wiki articles on Rome do this.



This has got me thinking about all the history videos I like to watch on YouTube. They usually seem to extensively report their sources though, and those sources are usually thick books on the subjects of each video. They're probably a step above people on some forums.
I think history, as a subject is something that people do not understand or don't care about.
The video, in particular, that does this the best and the one I reference too about Alexandria is this one:
Mary Beard is one of the best historians on Rome.
I honestly want to make a thread about people's favorite history channels on youtube or videos, but fear I won't get serious answers.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
598dp0cr6n231.jpg


I think this is a good example of the imbalance between the sexualization approach.
And more to the point it also highlights how much women and gay/bi men do not look at the same stuff when it comes to the male anatomy.
The reason why the dude doesn't feel to be sexualized/objectified in the drawing is because ... well it straight up doesn't show what we wanna see ...

Also I concur to the sensation and feeling that despite the wind blowing like mad in that drawing for some reason some weirdly localized vacuum-sealing seems to happen on her clothes ...
 
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Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,428
Beaumont, CA
And more to the point it also highlights how much women and gay/bi men do not look at the same stuff when it comes to the male anatomy.
The reason why the dude doesn't feel to be sexualized/objectified in the drawing is because ... well it straight up doesn't show what we wanna see ...

Also I concur to the sensation and feeling that despite the wind blowing like mad in that drawing for some reason some weirdly localized vacuum-sealing seems to happen on her clothes ...

Oddly enough, I just saw this on ANN today. Murata has a really bad habit of this (otherwise I love his art)

001_size6-2-.jpg
 

Aine

Member
May 27, 2019
1,815
Isn't that Gwen explicitly known to be underage? That's an extra layer of yikes, if so.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,552
I'm always confused as to how comic book outfits manage to perfectly show the belly button.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,480
The characters for the new Ninja Theory mp game "Bleeding Edge" look awesome:

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Glad to see more variety in playable characters in games. Respawn Entertainments "Apex Legends" was also nice in this regard.

Sorry that they're so blurry. The trailer leaked in advance of the e3 showing.

https://xboxer.sk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Bleeding-Edge-E3-trailer-leaked-XboxerSK.mp4
I respect the diversity, but not the art style. That game looks thoroughly unappealing to me :(
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,531
If no one is gonna make a general feminism thread, I might get around to making a feminist critique and recommendation anime thread. Still working out the title and content of the opening post.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,439
Greater Vancouver
To be fair, most of the female objectification is coming from Japanese devs. And the reason they can get away with it is because Japanese women aren't complaining about it. If the complaints are coming from foreigners, they won't care. But if the complaints come from Japanese women, that's when real change can come about.

But why aren't Japanese women complaining? Could it be cultural differences, or social conditioning, or internalized sexism, or a "boys will be boys" attitude, or they don't mind as long as they get their bishonen?
Bull fucking shit
 
Mar 18, 2019
635
It'd be a lot more accurate to say that the Japanese women who do complain have no voice in Japan. Their views have been marginalized to the point that it doesn't register; especially in the otaku communities which are now in ascendence.
I've already acknowledged that I was wrong to say that Japanese women aren't complaining. There are plenty who are complaining, but not enough to counter the amount of people who are demanding sexualization.

It's also worth noting that Japan is behind most Western countries in terms of gender equality. And there was a poll I remember which apparently showed most Japanese people don't know what feminism is.

It's no coincidence that most of the sexualization in gaming (especially female sexualization, and to a far lesser extent male sexualization) is coming from Japanese games. While Western games in recent years have at least been attemping to tone down sexualization, Japanese games seem to be going in the opposite direction.
 
New tales game looks good.
The female character looks good but usual questionable design
krqKBEb.jpg


I say they been moving away from cute to more tough looking main female characters from the last few games

Fromsoft new game is still up in the air on what it is but still doing good with designs
B8OkdVJ.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
So after watching that Tales of Arise trailer, I gotta ask, is the whole sword coming from a woman body a thing in Japan?
I do remember that Vita game with girls turning into weapons but there could be more that I am missing.

Otherwise the character in the trailer is way better than Velvet's outfit in Berseria. Not there yet but still better and I hope they keep going in this direction until the designs become great.
 

Deleted member 1656

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,474
So-Cal
Yo, I'd just like to give a big shout out to Selma and Farrow from Mutant Year Zero: Road to Eden for being fucking cool playable female characters.

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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,323
Art style in general's been a problem for a decade or so. AAA video games have settled into a very hyper-real or entirely cartoon-y visual style. Not much else out there at the moment.

Honestly, would like to see more games like Sekiro or even Assassin's Creed Origins, which at least attempt a take on a less western visual style.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Watched the Tales trailer last night, why am I not surprised at the sword needing to be pulled out of the woman's chest (0.44).

 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,830
New tales game looks good.
The female character looks good but usual questionable design
krqKBEb.jpg


I say they been moving away from cute to more tough looking main female characters from the last few games

Fromsoft new game is still up in the air on what it is but still doing good with designs
B8OkdVJ.jpg

The difference is telling for sure. From is on another level.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Looks like it to me.
As for the metal frame/boobplate, I've seen that before on various designs too, providing just the hint at protection on the flank while leaving as much exposed as possible and pointing to the crotch etc. I mean, it's not the worst I've ever seen even within the series, but combined with the 'draw sword from her chest' thing it doesn't leave me full of hope. Ah well, not sure what I was expecting really.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
9,574
Mass
As for the metal frame/boobplate, I've seen that before on various designs too, providing just the hint at protection on the flank while leaving the belly exposed and pointin to the crotch. I mean, it's not the worst I've ever seen even within the series, but combined with the 'draw sword from her chest' thing it doesn't leave me full of hope. Ah well, not sure what I was expecting really.
The shoulder pads are what's screwing it up for me. Without them I'd say it was just an overly fancy dress with weird metal bits on it. With the pads I can't tell if it's supposed to be armor or not.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The shoulder pads are what's screwing it up for me. Without them I'd say it was just an overly fancy dress with weird metal bits on it. With the pads I can't tell if it's supposed to be armor or not.
We often see this, scraps of heavy plate armour used only for decoration. In the worst cases you get plate armoured panties and little else (Hi Dana from Ys VIII). Descended from the chainmail bikini, I suppose.

Just for comparison from a little over a decade ago, here's Estelle from Vesperia, a 'lead female character equipped for combat in a white dress'.

To me Elise's outfit at least looks original (if strange/fantastical) but the one above is sexualised in a very templated modern way. It's like they've taken the 'wedding dress' idea and 'spikey combat lingerie' idea and melded them together.
 
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