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Pandora012

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Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Is the complaint how she's drawn? How it's framed? How she's posed?
I believe it has to do with how she is posed and the framing of it. For example the 2nd to last panel when they focus on her lower body.


But some found the scene too focused on Batgirl's body, sexually exploitative, taking the male gaze for something meant to be disturbing rather than something fun and/or sexual. Focusing on the character's sexual attributes, boob socks in her costume and rising up at the back, body paint rather than anything protective. And, combined with her bullet wound, creeping loads of folk out.
That's the article that I was reading.


The costume under the spoiler is OK. Biggest issue of the comic page is the framing of the shots. What's right smack-dab in the middle of every frame? T&A. Gah.

My question is how should they have shown her wounds? As the bullet wound is where it its. I can understand the 2nd to last panel tho, I suppose they didn't need to show her standing up and focusing on her lower body.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Gods, imagine if Persona actually had the guts to tackle the reality of teenage relationships/sex instead of play the male power fantasy harem card every fucking time...
How about no given their track reccord on anything non striaght and their treatment of it ...
It would be good with good writers but the current ones ? hell no .
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
The costume under the spoiler is OK. Biggest issue of the comic page is the framing of the shots. What's right smack-dab in the middle of every frame? T&A. Gah.
I'd also say the costume of the first one is almost drawn like it's translucant, you can see literally every contour, and there's something about the slow removal of clothing drawn in each panel and the way she's posed that reminds me of a striptease.
 

Deleted member 48897

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I'd also say the costume of the first one is almost drawn like it's translucant, you can see literally every contour, and there's something about the slow removal of clothing drawn in each panel and the way she's posed that reminds me of a striptease.

Right, it's boob sock meets today's bespoke, artisanal porno framing.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Sexualization on the same level of current day female objectification?

Something like this.

NSFW
You don't even need to get that goofy just google for pics of yaoi VN/Dating sim games with actual sex scenes in them and you're golden.

Hell take a look at "To trust an Incubus" decensored sex scenes that's one of the rare VN/Dating Sim where the artist managed to talk both to gay and bi dudes and to yaoi fan girls (and if you know anything about the difference between each group expactations you know it's a damn hard gamut to run , and I was damn pleased with it , although the writing could use some imporvements )
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
But that's like not attractive at all. I mean maybe it is for some. Is that something you would want?
It's objectification - society hasn't been conditioned to view men that are made objects as attractive, it's seen as demeaning and wrong, and kinda a joke. Women being seen as objects are not viewed the same way.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
9,486
Mass
I'd also say the costume of the first one is almost drawn like it's translucant, you can see literally every contour, and there's something about the slow removal of clothing drawn in each panel and the way she's posed that reminds me of a striptease.
Yeah, the 1st, 3rd, 7th and 9th panels would demonstrate the point they are making without drawing it out.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
You don't even need to get that goofy just google for pics of yaoi VN/Dating sim games with actual sex scenes in them and you're golden.

Hell take a look at "To trust an Incubus" decensored sex scenes that's one of the rare VN/Dating Sim where the artist managed to talk both to gay and bi dudes and to yaoi fan girls (and if you know anything about the difference between each group expactations you know it's a damn hard gamut to run , and I was damn pleased with it , although the writing could use some imporvements )
See i could get behind something like that.

It's objectification - society hasn't been conditioned to view men that are made objects as attractive, it's seen as demeaning and wrong, and kinda a joke. Women being seen as objects are not viewed the same way.
I understand that, i think that poster and me meant different things. I wanted to know what would be considered sexy for male characters. I didn't mean for comparison for the extreme side of how comical things can get for women.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 28, 2017
26,426
But that's like not attractive at all. I mean maybe it is for some. Is that something you would want?

Now you're getting it. Because a lot of female designs are this over the top and ludicrous. Not necessarily attractive, just over the top and objectifying for male gaze's sake.

Because "teehee, titties".

You don't even need to get that goofy just google for pics of yaoi VN/Dating sim games with actual sex scenes in them and you're golden.

Hell take a look at "To trust an Incubus" decensored sex scenes that's one of the rare VN/Dating Sim where the artist managed to talk both to gay and bi dudes and to yaoi fan girls (and if you know anything about the difference between each group expactations you know it's a damn hard gamut to run , and I was damn pleased with it , although the writing could use some imporvements )

See using actual anatomy, fashion and poling actual sexual desire would probably work. But the powers that be don't seem to be interested in learning about those types of things, hence most game protagonists looking like slightly altered variants of each other.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
See i could get behind something like that.
Thing is in those games it does makes sense I maen the whole point of the gameplay is to get to date them and have sex with those characters , so their sexualization isn't out of place and doesn't come with zero context .
(Okay maybe the Firefighters gang bang in the elevator in "Coming out on top" was more than a bit shaky but it was meant to be goofy that's the whole point any other sex scene made a whole lot of sense and this one is just a big goof and writing wise and drawing wise it is shown and presented as one )

While most female sexualization is always out of place and running its course "while on the job" (and like Mesoian said before me the outfitst are just gaudy and plain goofy to begin with ) .

For real the massive queer baiting of FF15 was made even worse with Cindy's costume . Not only are the creators just queer baiting my ass like fuck but on top of that they throw Cindy in that gaudy outfit like for real cut the crap already .
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Now you're getting it. Because a lot of female designs are this over the top and ludicrous. Not necessarily attractive, just over the top and objectifying for male gaze's sake.

Because "teehee, titties".
Sorry that's not what i meant for my question. That's on me, i wanted to know your idea for a sexy male character.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
26,426
Sorry that's not what i meant for my question. That's on me, i wanted to know your idea for a sexy male character.

I see. Well, in that case, I think most male protagonists are done serviceably enough, though I will admit, as a CIS straight guy, I think lithe bodies you find in female-aimed eroge is probably the way I'd lean. Most guys seem to hate that though, so we keep getting variations of Nathan Drake.

I will say this much, everyone in MK11 is very attractive.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Sorry that's not what i meant for my question. That's on me, i wanted to know your idea for a sexy male character.
Look at BioWare games, particularly Dragon Age - they are usually pretty good at making sexy male characters for straight women (I'm assuming that's who we mean as I'd argue that due to how women and men are raised and brought up in society, I doubt that even though gay men and straight women are both attracted to men, they are attracted to the exact same traits as they have been in general socialised differently). Reaally, look at any game franchise on tumblr or deviantart, or fanfic on Archive of your own and you can see who women are attracted to.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
I see. Well, in that case, I think most male protagonists are done serviceably enough, though I will admit, as a CIS straight guy, I think lithe bodies you find in female-aimed eroge is probably the way I'd lean. Most guys seem to hate that though, so we keep getting variations of Nathan Drake.
This just this oh my fucking god this ...

You have no idea how much male characters designs are bland as fuck yeah but it's not for a lack of characters designers trying to push alternatives . Like for real the comic about the female artist trying to make Batman sexy and then the dude going "I feel uncomfortable when I watch your Batman" is sadly so true in the industry ...

Like for real it's not that ladies who are commissioned to model a dude don't try they do a whole lot , but as long as the "final nail" will be in the hands of your average cis striaght dude born before the 80"s those designs just won't get through ...

Sadly we live in a world where Bauer's joke about "the picture of a dude shouldn't give me a boner" is verified everyday in both the game industry and the animation industry all around the world ..

Although it is possible to run the gamut between what striaght and bi women find sexy in a dude and what gay and bi dudes find sexy , it's generaly hard to acheive though . Anyone woman who's big into yaoi and talked about her passion with a bi/gay dude will tell you about "the nipple frontier" for example ...
 
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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
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Oct 24, 2017
34,306
I wanted to know what would be considered sexy for male characters.
A (male) friend used to mock me mercilessly for that, but I found Vamp in MGS2/4 to be pretty hot, as well as Gabriel Belmont in Lords of Shadow. (Neither are ever objectified though, and their level of sexualization is fairly tame compared to female designs.)

...Later, said friend apologized to me for laughing, because he told me he wasn't any better because he started crushing on Bayonetta. LOL
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
A (male) friend used to mock me mercilessly for that, but I found Vamp in MGS2/4 to be pretty hot, as well as Gabriel Belmont in Lords of Shadow. (Neither are ever objectified though, and their level of sexualization is fairly tame compared to female designs.)

...Later, said friend apologized to me for laughing, because he told me he wasn't any better because he started crushing on Bayonetta. LOL
Glad he did because yo Vamp and Gabe are hotties like for real how did he not see this !

Especially for Gabe giving him Robert Carlyle to voice him didn't help one single bit ...
For real this actor's voice is a big turn on for gay and bi dudes (and some ladies I've been told )
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,300
don't see a problem with sexualisation if they do it for both genders. Like the SF5 Hot Edition, with Hot Ryu and Hot Chun Li.
It should be noted, since SF5 keeps coming up as an example of "SEE?! HOT MALE CHARACTERS EXIST TOO." Capcom has gone on record to say that they were incredibly surprised by the reaction to Battle damaged Ryu.

Their intention was something along the lines of this and the reaction it gets:
a4eb2cbeabb31db1da3c44e3f6750531.png



not:
2ed1e3added3b76c126622d90f4e3066.gif


However, they were smart enough to not miss the opportunity to take advantage of the reaction. In other words.

"Hot Ryu" formally known as Battle Damaged Ryu was designed by straight men, for other straight men. And isn't an example of male objectification.
 
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Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Interesting for me I generally prefer guys, more on the muscular side of the spectrum. Though slender is fine too, really depends on the artist. It's just with some artists I've noticed that if you have a lithe body, they generally fall in the super young category.
 

Deleted member 49179

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TheSyldat

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Nov 4, 2018
1,127
It should be noted, since SF5 keeps coming up as an example of "SEE?! HOT MALE CHARACTERS EXIST TOO." Capcom has gone on record to say that they were incredibly surprised by the reaction to Battle damaged Ryu.

"Hot Ryu" formally known as Battle Damaged Ryu was designed by straight men, for other straight men. And isn't an example of male objectification.

Yeah both "Hot Ryu" and "Hot Cody" were completly unintentional . Also they should have shut their mouth about it because on the flip side Arc System works jumped on the occasion to remind everyone that "if you want hot bishis and hot dudes in general in your fighitng game you ain't exactly knocking at the right door folks" .

Sorry had to precise about Hot Cody being a thing too , also it's always very revealing when one mentions Ryu but not Cody it shows they didn't discuss this topic with a woman or a gay/bi dude , because otherwise they'd lean way more on Cody rather than insisting on Ryu ...
 
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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
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Oct 24, 2017
34,306
Glad he did because yo Vamp and Gabe are hotties like for real how did he not see this !
Haha. IDK, straight men often think they know what women find hot. I've seen this happen in multiple topics about "sexy men" where a lot of men acted baffled at some women's choices, or their own ideas of what made men "hot" was completely out of sync with what a lot of women preferred. There was even a thread where someone was borderline telling women they were wrong about their picks (lol)...

Not to mention all the guys who think Kratos, or, Satan forbid, Voldo, is an example of female fanservice...
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Not to mention all the guys who think Kratos, or, Satan forbid, Voldo, is an example of female fanservice...
VOLDO ? Really freaking Voldo ? Even to gay men that are waaay into BDSM shit he's a turn off O_o

Me to a gay friend "who's bit too much into leather for hiw own good" : Now that's a character for ya here lol !
Friend : Nah dude Voldo is waaaay too intense for me like for real drop the blades and spikes shit you're creepin' me out bro !
 

Pandora012

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Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Haha. IDK, straight men often think they know what women find hot. I've seen this happen in multiple topics about "sexy men" where a lot of men acted baffled at some women's choices, or their own ideas of what made men "hot" was completely out of sync with what a lot of women preferred. There was even a thread where someone was borderline telling women they were wrong about their picks (lol)...

Not to mention all the guys who think Kratos, or, Satan forbid, Voldo, is an example of female fanservice...
Guessing it's hard for men to understand how women may find guys with actual clothes attractive. Don't get me wrong tho, I thought Kratos was hot too in a way.
 

TheSyldat

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Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Guessing it's hard for men to understand how women may find guys with actual clothes attractive. Don't get me wrong tho, I thought Kratos was hot too in a way.

If only you saw the baffled faces of some dudes that I know when they saw all the girls having a big crush on Damien in Dream Daddy , and then be even more baffled when pretty much every gay / bi dude was big into Brian ...

That shit was hilarious .

Damien :
250px-Damien.png


Brian :
250px-Brian.png
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
If only you saw the baffled faces of some dudes that I know when they saw all the girls having a big crush on Damien in Dream Daddy , and then be even more baffled when pretty much every gay / bi dude was big into Brian ...

That shit was hilarious .

Damien :
250px-Damien.png


Brian :
250px-Brian.png
Ummm, how did i not know about this game. Gonna get it when I'm home.

But seriously, they don't know why Brian was picked? Legit just saw him and it clicked why.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Ummm, how did i not know about this game. Gonna get it when I'm home.

But seriously, they don't know why Brian was picked? Legit just saw him and it clicked why.
No seriously for real after ladies explained up a bit they were still baffled but the face of the ladies just was enough to convince them that "something was going on here"

But Brian no it's (pun intended) striaght up escaped them completly , and still does to most of them . They just don't get it .
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
...after David Bowie, obvs.

I can't even tell if you're mocking me! I don't expect him to rank high on other people's list to be honest, just felt like bringing him up after the other Metal Gear mentions. He just does it for me! It's not a power fantasy thing either, as I tend to idolize the 'pretty boy'-types typically. The series for all its missteps knows how to give women some good fanservice. I remember reading about MGS2 Raiden's reception by Japanese women a while ago and how they loved him. I wonder how men reacted to him being butt naked in parts of the game then.
 
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TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
I can't even tell if you're mocking me! I don't expect him to rank high on other people's list to be honest, just felt like bringing him up after the other Metal Gear mentions. He just does it for me! It's not a power fantasy thing either, as I tend to idolize the 'pretty boy'-types typically. The series for all its missteps knows how to give women some good fanservice. I remember reading about Raiden's reception by Japanese women a while ago and how they loved him. I wonder how men reacted to him being butt naked in parts of the game then.
Well he was in MGS 2 too for a looong section of the game . So can't be mad at Platinum for doing it too , if you're gonna be mad be mad at Kojima for doing it first .
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Oh yeah, I meant that game in particular, my bad. I don't think MGR Raiden is all that attractive with his robot chin.
Well in the case of MGS 2 , straight dudes reaction around me was pretty much "dude's got his peepee out lol" , and then them asking why I'd change room and go have a smoke on the balcony waiting for that section to be over ...
 

Deleted member 14735

Oct 27, 2017
930
Y'all really going through viddy game boys without mentioning the GOAT?



(the other dude's okay too)

Also re: the older convo about sexualised men in games, lmk when we start getting armour like this

(this one's probably nws)



These two are from Dragon Age apparently, but I've never played it, I'm assuming you can't actually dress that way. I feel like this is a pretty decent parallel to characters like Ivy. You really don't see this like anywhere.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Hot damn french ladies who are big Total War fans are big mad at Creative Assembly (understandbly so ) , wow just wow if you're a french speaker avoid the french speaking Total War forums ladies be furious ... Damn !


These two are from Dragon Age apparently, but I've never played it, I'm assuming you can't actually dress that way. I feel like this is a pretty decent parallel to characters like Ivy. You really don't see this like anywhere.
Yup Dragon Age Inquisition in this case and why am I not surprised to see it's yet another Cullen x Allistair one you found ? XD

As for Leon and Chris eh never understood it in previous games , but in the remake of RE2 that got out this year ? Yeah now I get it I get it a whole lot !
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
What happened? I'm not familiar with Total War.
Three Kingdoms starts during the yellow turban revolution and although there are female generals of the bandits tribes that were given some spotlight (contrary to chinese made games happening in that same time period) , most of the Warrior Matriarchal tribes were on the side of the yellow turbans, guess who is the day one paid DLC ?

In other words female warriors and generals and capitains for once weren't erased from history = cool super cool sweet awseome
Salesman following sentence ? "But most of them were on the side of the Yellow Turban and the yellow turban faction is the day one paid dlc"

Sooo ladies (especially those that wanted and longed for a Three Kingdoms period Total War precisely for a chance to play Warrior Matriarchs ) are a weeee bit mad ....

EDIT : And CA's response is just "But Zheng Jiang is in the base game" ... way to miss the god damn point guys ... Zheng lives in a patriarchal bandit tribe she climbed rank by being a cold blooded literal "Killer Queen" , them ladies wanted to play the Naxi women generals , the Shune ge matriarchs etc etc....
 
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Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,634
Brazil
If only you saw the baffled faces of some dudes that I know when they saw all the girls having a big crush on Damien in Dream Daddy , and then be even more baffled when pretty much every gay / bi dude was big into Brian ...

That shit was hilarious .

Damien :
250px-Damien.png


Brian :
250px-Brian.png

It is obviously the dick size that matters ;D


get it ? because Damien is heavily hinted at being a trans guy ... yeah i know bad joke sorry lets go back to talk about how handsome he looks
 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,442
New York
But that's like not attractive at all. I mean maybe it is for some. Is that something you would want?
I feel like you kind of answered your own question there. Just because something is objectifying, doesn't mean it's actually attractive in any way. They're exaggerated and over the top to the point where there's nothing left of them beyond the fan-service-ness of it all.

I say this as a straight man that grew up on female-aimed media: Jetstream Sam is the hottest guy in videogaming.
I say this as a bi man: He's way up there. Top 5 at least. The accent doesn't hurt either...
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
It is obviously the dick size that matters ;D
get it ? because Damien is heavily hinted at being a trans guy ... yeah i know bad joke sorry lets go back to talk about how handsome he looks
Answer to the spoiler : That on the other ladies didn't pick it up until I pointed it out ...
 
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