Good point.I mean those "controversial opinions" are usually just thinly veiled sexist talking points so yeah, there's a reason they don't last long.
Good point.I mean those "controversial opinions" are usually just thinly veiled sexist talking points so yeah, there's a reason they don't last long.
Ehh it depends, some either show up in bad faith, others probably don't articulate themselves properly. I admit, I'm pretty bad a writing.Those disagreements are always about the same and involve the same people. Every time a new face shows up with a controversial opinnion, they don't last long.
Perhaps it is more like a gated community than an echo chamber.
Honestly, T&A for me is something I kinda enjoy but every damn video game ever with it has to frame someone with titty as "hey nico, let's look at big american titties," give them absolutely no character whatsoever, and are dressed in an outfit that looks like someone went wild with the lasso tool and doesn't fit whatsoever. More or less, T&A is a combo deal with slimy objectification. Turning a conversation about objectified female characters into one about T&A in bad faith is just a distraction of the bigger picture issues and a trap to claim that removing objectification will end T&A forever.
I don't see a problem with sexualisation if they do it for both genders. Like the SF5 Hot Edition, with Hot Ryu and Hot Chun Li.
I don't see a problem with sexualisation if they do it for both genders. Like the SF5 Hot Edition, with Hot Ryu and Hot Chun Li.
"men are sexualised too" call me when we get dick physics in video games, then we'll talk about male sexualisation.
I don't see a problem with sexualisation if they do it for both genders. Like the SF5 Hot Edition, with Hot Ryu and Hot Chun Li.
I don't think we should pretend that every person who feels unwelcome in this thread is a sexist when there have been times in the past that women have felt uncomfortable in this thread and left - it can be intimidating when a group of people who clearly have been writing to each other for a long time to try and enter with your own opinion, especially when gaming in general can feel like it's trying to shut women's opinion's down, so it's really easy to have it come off that way in the thread, especially when unfortunately, just due to forum demographics, this thread seems to skew mainly male (though I know you guys all try to be welcoming, and I'm glad you feel strongly about the subject, it's just unfortunate that theres's not more women in this thread). This problem is not just isolated to this thread and would be there across this forum. While clearly, that's not what Bhonar is getting at when he says the place is an echo chamber, I would feel we are doing each other a diservice if we pretended there have never been people, like women, that aren't sexist, that have felt shut out of this thread. We can only improve from a problem if we admit it's there in the first place.
Yeah, the current state of the thread is a bit pitiful. The addition of the top poster feature had me realize time again how many outspoken women this thread has lost. Sometimes it feels like it is run by men, when it should be by women. While I think that conflict among women even on this topic can not always be avoided - after all, something of the sort happened not long ago - the men of this thread might want to consider taking a step back when a new female face pops in not quite parroting what we tend to say here just yet. If this is indeed a thread by women and for women, then the opinion of a woman should never be dismissed with haste.
I defo don't think it's just a this thread problem but a whole forum problem but this is also meant to be a safe haven for women in the forum, so I think we could work on improving it to be more welcoming. I am sad though how many promenient women posters that seem to be going down over time and I don't feel like they are enough new women posters coming in either (to be clear, talking about the forum in general) :(To be fair, I have a problem shutting up and I was pretty bad in the last thread so just ignore me.
Still look at the old thread and the who had posted and a lot of people are no longer on this site period.
To be fair, I have a problem shutting up and I was pretty bad in the last thread so just ignore me.
Still look at the old thread and the who had posted and a lot of people are no longer on this site period.
Yeah, the current state of the thread is a bit pitiful. The addition of the top poster feature had me realize time again how many outspoken women this thread has lost. Sometimes it feels like it is run by men, when it should be by women. While I think that conflict among women even on this topic can not always be avoided - after all, something of the sort happened not long ago - the men of this thread might want to consider taking a step back when a new female face pops in not quite parroting what we tend to say here just yet. If this is indeed a thread by women and for women, then the opinion of a woman should never be dismissed with haste.
What would serialization for a man be then? The best I can think of is Dick Grayson. And with the knowledge that dick physics won't be a thing, cause I gotta say, that would be unattractive at least to me.Also, sexualizing a man with making him simply go shirtless is way different than sexualizing a woman putting her in underwear styled armor. It's not simply about the amount of clothes the character wears.
I remember a case a few months back when a female member proudly posted her own anime design that was supposed to be a representation of her. She was shamed out of the thread very ungraciously and without any empathy. It really made me feel bad for her.
I remember a case a few months back when a female member proudly posted her own anime design that was supposed to be a representation of her. She was shamed out of the thread very ungraciously and without any empathy. It really made me feel bad for her.
Most of them are on various discords now tbh.I quite like your output, so I'd be hard-pressed to ignore you.
And while a number of people left the site for good, keep in mind some of them like PhazonBlonde did so over disagreements in this very thread. I didn't always agree or get along with her, but I always valued her opinion. Now she's gone.
A problem this thread now has is that you come here as a new person and see a bunch of men discuss women's issues in videogames. Which is not a bad thing at all, but a woman looking for a safe place might be turned away by the lack of fellow women in a thread like this.
Yeah, I remember that one, it turned pretty ugly - the other posters weren't necessarily making bad points but there was just a large number pointed at her and they were needlessly aggressive - and it didn't help that other posters who don't normally appear in the thread to messy the waters with defending the yougness of anime designs in general. It ended up a huge pile on her.I remember a case a few months back when a female member proudly posted her own anime design that was supposed to be a representation of her. She was shamed out of the thread very ungraciously and without any empathy. It really made me feel bad for her.
Actually, PhazenBlonde was the prime example I was thinking of when I brought it - it felt wrong that she felt so unwelcome in this thread.I quite like your output, so I'd be hard-pressed to ignore you.
And while a number of people left the site for good, keep in mind some of them like PhazonBlonde did so over disagreements in this very thread. I didn't always agree or get along with her, but I always valued her opinion. Now she's gone.
A problem this thread now has is that you come here as a new person and see a bunch of men discuss women's issues in videogames. Which is not a bad thing at all, but a woman looking for a safe place might be turned away by the lack of fellow women in a thread like this.
'Mount your friends' has dick physics.
Surprisingly fun game too.
I remember this but let's not conflate events here, it wasn't male posters that made PhazonBlonde decide to stop posting.Actually, PhazenBlonde was the prime example I was thinking of when I brought it - it felt wrong that she felt so unwelcome in this thread.
Again though, "Dicks are supposed to be funny, not sexy."
Show me a game that has the same loving devotion to male erections that, for example, DOA has towards breast physics.
Yeah, male sexuality tends to be more...clothed than female sexuality. Like take Twisted Wonderland, a game where all of Disney Villains are now pretty boys that go to a Hogwarts school and you play as an iseki girl who picks which house and villain pretty boy to date.
...no I'm not joking
Here is male Ursula and the eel henchmen
Here's Jaffar's Parrot Iago
Here's Jaffar's Staff.
So year, fanservice for women in anime/manga/otome games tend to be more...clothed.
...ALSO WHY JAFFAR'S STAFF YOU CANNOT TELL ME THAT PEOPLE WERE HORN- *shuffled off screen*
If I remember correctly though it was the straw that broke the camels back and she'd felt unwelcome for a while here? It wasn't just that one event - and she mentioned male posters too. And when I said women being unwelcome in this thread, I didn't actually just mean male posters as the problem, though I do think the gender ratio skew helps contribute, I think everyone (including myself) should try and be open to more women posters point of view.I remember this but let's not conflate events here, it wasn't male posters that made PhazonBlonde decide to stop posting.
Look, I like this thread, a lot, but I can't believe how much of a trashfire it turned into during that. There were more seriously hurtful insults hurled at that member and the artist she had commissioned than there are too people who act in blatantly bad faith. It was practically bullying.I remember a case a few months back when a female member proudly posted her own anime design that was supposed to be a representation of her. She was shamed out of the thread very ungraciously and without any empathy. It really made me feel bad for her.
I think the issue is that some people believe that women shouldn't/wouldn't sexualize other women, and if they do it's due to guys. That's at least the feel I get here. Especially when you see comments on anime designs made by women.
Yeah, I remember that one, it turned pretty ugly - the other posters weren't necessarily making bad points but there was just a large number pointed at her and they were needlessly aggressive - and it didn't help that other posters who don't normally appear in the thread to messy the waters with defending the yougness of anime designs in general. It ended up a huge pile on her.
If I remember correctly though it was the straw that broke the camels back and she'd felt unwelcome for a while here? It wasn't just that one event - and she mentioned male posters too. And when I said women being unwelcome in this thread, I didn't actually just mean male posters as the problem, though I do think the gender ratio skew helps contribute, I think everyone (including myself) should try and be open to more women posters point of view.
This thread kinda consumed itself, I think? "Forum entropy" if you will. It became a safe space within a safe space, with constant deviations towards related topics that people wanted to discuss, but (I presume) didn't want to raise elsewhere, knowing what the reaction would be. As a consequence, it's become cliquey and alienating to new comments and new content.
I don't know enough about the wider forum/community, but it wouldn't surprise me if this thread is itself a microcosm of that.
Look, I like this thread, a lot, but I can't believe how much of a trashfire it turned into during that. There were more seriously hurtful insults hurled at that member and the artist she had commissioned than there are too people who act in blatantly bad faith. It was practically bullying.
I won't say this thread is an echo chamber, but people do feel comfortable wearing their emotions on their sleeve. Sometimes that's cleansing, and sometimes it leads to aggression where none was warranted or appropriate. That's why I prefer to lurk and react slowly. I want to try and get a good idea of what I'm dealing with before engaging.
Couldn't agree more, to be honest.I mostly don't post for fear of being jumped on due to a poorly-worded statement, despite finding myself generally agreeing with the consensus of the thread regulars, but my current big complaint is how large a percentage of the thread recently has turned into just an anime discussion. Not anime as it relates to video game character design, just anime plot discussions, recommendations, etc.
Couldn't agree more, to be honest.
I don't want to stifle discussion or anything so I just kinda let it happen, but I won't lie, pages upon pages of, often barely tangential, anime discussion certainly what has been making me lose interest in this thread lately.
I'd say that exploring relationships, sexuality, and sex itself would counteract objectification of characters as they would have to be more than objects for it to work out (to an extent.) But alas, "teehee titties" is an easier sell than "An actual mature look at sexuality and sex"I don't think anyone's really saying that though. I think most people would be perfectly willing to accept sex in games if it was treated like an adult, rational, reasonable thing. The problem with objectification is that, 90% of the time, it begins and ends with "teehee, titties". It doesn't explore sexuality, it doesn't explore relationships, it doesn't explore why sex can be healthy and gratifying or horrifically damaging, it's just "check out these tits! tee hee". And there are so many times where entire characters are literally defined by their outfits (or lack there of), the only thing framing the characters beyond how much skin their showing being the necessary additions of context to their relevancy of staying in the franchise at all. Ivy from SC is a good example of this, her backstory is pretty neat. Trying to kill her father, immune from aging, basically poised to become the pirate queen of the world because she can't be challenged, and almost no one knows about any of that stuff...because at the end of the day she's still defined by whatever S&M gear they put her in. They've never even explored her sexuality in the games, I don't think there's a line of dialogue explaining her motivations matched with her attire, if anything, her story matches her secondary outfit more than her primary.
But..."titties are great, tee hee". ::Shrugs::
At the end of the day, objectification is easy and that's why people keep doing it. It's been interesting to see people get mad at efforts taken to not go the easy road and just make female outfits a string bikini or a colored sling, but at the end of the day...a lot of people don't care about the characters, as long as they get to see some titties. They'll wheedle around saying it all day, but there are so many people who just buy a game because there's a pair of huge knockers on the cover. And that's dumb and that's sad, and that's true.
That sounds grand!Tbf, this is probably the only thread on era with an active discussion on feminist theory. But I'd be open to a thread on feminist critique of anime.
I'd love an OT for animefeminist.com
Gods, imagine if Persona actually had the guts to tackle the reality of teenage relationships/sex instead of play the male power fantasy harem card every fucking time...I'd say that exploring relationships, sexuality, and sex itself would counteract objectification of characters as they would have to be more than objects for it to work out (to an extent.) But alas, "teehee titties" is an easier sell than "An actual mature look at sexuality and sex"
Thank you I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels or secondary outfit should be the one that's canon and therefore primary outfit offered . (Especially in SC2 this one was beautifull as all hell )I don't think anyone's really saying that though. I think most people would be perfectly willing to accept sex in games if it was treated like an adult, rational, reasonable thing. The problem with objectification is that, 90% of the time, it begins and ends with "teehee, titties". It doesn't explore sexuality, it doesn't explore relationships, it doesn't explore why sex can be healthy and gratifying or horrifically damaging, it's just "check out these tits! tee hee". And there are so many times where entire characters are literally defined by their outfits (or lack there of), the only thing framing the characters beyond how much skin their showing being the necessary additions of context to their relevancy of staying in the franchise at all. Ivy from SC is a good example of this, her backstory is pretty neat. Trying to kill her father, immune from aging, basically poised to become the pirate queen of the world because she can't be challenged, and almost no one knows about any of that stuff...because at the end of the day she's still defined by whatever S&M gear they put her in. They've never even explored her sexuality in the games, I don't think there's a line of dialogue explaining her motivations matched with her attire, if anything, her story matches her secondary outfit more than her primary.
But..."titties are great, tee hee". ::Shrugs::
At the end of the day, objectification is easy and that's why people keep doing it. It's been interesting to see people get mad at efforts taken to not go the easy road and just make female outfits a string bikini or a colored sling, but at the end of the day...a lot of people don't care about the characters, as long as they get to see some titties. They'll wheedle around saying it all day, but there are so many people who just buy a game because there's a pair of huge knockers on the cover. And that's dumb and that's sad, and that's true.
Is the complaint how she's drawn? How it's framed? How she's posed?I'm not sure how many follow comics, but I wanted people's thought's on the recent backlash regarding Batgirl in the Hero's in Crisis series. In Hero's in Crisis you see many of DC's hero's and some villains, go into a confession like area where they discuss various trauma's they have experienced.
The issue is that some people see the below image as being inappropriately sexual as she is showing her bullet wounds. These being the wounds that Joker caused when he shot her and left her disabled for many years in the comics.
Below is just a reference of how she looked when her new costume was revealed. Some have stated it wasn't so much the costume, but the style of the artist.
I will admit, personally I don't see it. And it didn't even cross my mind as sexual in any way.
With the current quality of their writing, I don't even want to know how that'd turn out.Gods, imagine if Persona actually had the guts to tackle the reality of teenage relationships/sex instead of play the male power fantasy harem card every fucking time...