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Fun fact Fate zero (the novel at least) and Madoka Magica were written by Gen Urobuchi who infamous for writing dark tales and misdirection in ways that have a point or lesson. In a way he kind of the reason why the Fate series went away from it hentai routes.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Hmmm while I can't say if there was a lesson to Saya no Uta, I will say it was interesting seeing the descent of the main character into a villain. The fact that it all started from an incident that altered his perception is quite a scary thought.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Lolol.

Yeah it's basically done to grab a pubescent boy's attention because honestly that's the only thing that really can. It's basically Leia on the Star Wars poster.
Nah even with "my hormones boiling" I was still able to see the flashyness and try hardiness of those covers for what they were and didn't felt exactly compeled to buy comics (especially when next to it were european series and japanese series that didn't stoop that low for my attention during that time )
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
I think the closest I've seen of a shonen deconstruction was HxH... it was the first manga I've seen breaking some tropes and conventions of the genre such as: the main character won't always win, nor be in the toughest battle of the saga; seeking for power can be toxic for you and your comrades; sometimes it's hard to distinguish the villains and the good guys and it goes on

It's not a deconstruction such as madoka, but it's a shonen that breaks a lot of conventions which makes it a pretty damn good series, but it's hard to get into unless you're already fed up with the genre
 

phatmac

Member
Dec 18, 2017
375
I think the closest I've seen of a shonen deconstruction was HxH... it was the first manga I've seen breaking some tropes and conventions of the genre such as: the main character won't always win, nor be in the toughest battle of the saga; seeking for power can be toxic for you and your comrades; sometimes it's hard to distinguish the villains and the good guys and it goes on

It's not a deconstruction such as madoka, but it's a shonen that breaks a lot of conventions which makes it a pretty damn good series, but it's hard to get into unless you're already fed up with the genre
Fate stay night is another good deconstruction of the shonen/hero genre. It sadly beats you over the head with its message of critiquing typical shonen heroes trying to save everyone yet it still works well.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
Fate stay night is another good deconstruction of the shonen/hero genre. It sadly beats you over the head with its message of critiquing typical shonen heroes trying to save everyone yet it still works well.
Yeah, but hunter is never about saving the world, the one saga it had about that was the very saga that makes you wonder if humans are all shit xD

Stay/night is pretty good but i forgot most of it by now :/
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,052
- Evangelion -> mecha shows must now include impenetrable conspiracies, religious imagery and / or tons of mindfuck.

I thought Rahxephon was pretty good despite my not being able to understand it after two full viewings.

And maybe I need to take another look at Dual because at the time I thought it pretty smartly poked fun at Evangelion.

I kept hearing people gush about all this Fate stuff, which has always been super weird to me as I knew from TVTropes it all originally started as hentai, but hey, stranger things have happened. Now that the anime is on Netflix I was thinking "perhaps I should be more open minded and give it a try, if only to know what the cool kids are talking about", but I kept putting it off because, frankly, it seemed like really unappealing, anime-ass anime.

Needless to say, this last page has completely eradicated any lingering intention I might have had of watching it. For which I'm extremely thankful. :)

Fate/Zero anime is surprisingly good. I tried to watch the Fate/Stay Night anime and could only make it a few episodes because it was tropey garbage.

Yeah what this person said. Fate/Zero is one anime I would legit recommend to people who don't even watch anime. It's a prequel to the original VN so it doesn't have to write around any former H scenes, and it all-around isn't tropey at all. It's a full-length series with a seemingly very high animation budget, so you get a lot of really good-looking animation and fight scenes.

I would highly recommend Fate/Zero, with everything else being extremely optional if you want to know where the story goes after it.

Fate/Zero Unlimited Blade Works is one path of the original VN and has the same high-quality animation as Zero but is about as tropey as you describe. In my opinion though the main Fate stories (the original 2006 Fate/Zero which had a much lower budget, UBW, and the Lost Butterfly movies) have pretty good character designs as far as tropey anime go. From what I understand the more ridiculous crap is from the card game or the later spin-off anime that I haven't bothered with at all.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
If you're taking Sailor Moon as the progenitor of Magical Girl series, a certain amount of suffering is foundational to the genre, with the first series against Nephrite ending with only Moon surviving and all her friends dying in the attempt to get her to the goal. All getting reset, of course, but then the Dark Moon arc goes and does the same thing, with her friends falling one after the other. It's a fraught love story, and even the Crystal Millennium seems to be sort of beyond empowerment fantasy for young girls with Usagi ascending to basically godhood.

I feel like Pretty Cure is the one that does it straight in being a story about girls using magic powers to better themselves (although given genre conventions they're limited compared to Shonen in terms of how much impact they can have. Magical Girl shows typically happening in the real world, the heroines' achievements are typically striving towards modest, achievable gains in their real lives, contrast something like Naruto or One Piece where the boys have the power to change the world).
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I thought Rahxephon was pretty good despite my not being able to understand it after two full viewings.

Hell yeah, RahXephon is awesome (and as I mentioned before, I consider it the actual "proper" reconstruction of the genre after Evangelion's deconstruction, more so than GaoGaiGar). If you didn't understand the series, watch the movie: it cleared almost everything up for me in such dramatic way. The movie is essentially the key to unlock full understanding the series (but should be watched after it, because it spoils major plot points right at the beginning). It's a great movie on its own, too, and Tune the Rainbow is among my favorite music themes in all of anime (although it must be under heavy copyright watch because I can't find a youtube of which isn't a cover or a potato quality off-screen recording).
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
If you're taking Sailor Moon as the progenitor of Magical Girl series, a certain amount of suffering is foundational to the genre, with the first series against Nephrite ending with only Moon surviving and all her friends dying in the attempt to get her to the goal. All getting reset, of course, but then the Dark Moon arc goes and does the same thing, with her friends falling one after the other. It's a fraught love story, and even the Crystal Millennium seems to be sort of beyond empowerment fantasy for young girls with Usagi ascending to basically godhood.
Actually, Sailor Moon can get dark and grim. Stars in particular, is the worst arc for Usagi and the one she suffers the most. Manga is even worse than first anime. In fact, she started deceiving herself after what happened to Mamoru in front of her.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Actually, Sailor Moon can get dark and grim. Stars in particular, is the worst arc for Usagi and the one she suffers the most. Manga is even worse than first anime. In fact, she started deceiving herself after what happened to Mamoru in front of her.
That's the thing, these stories never had trouble being dark when they needed to be even before a bunch of people decided that they should really be about torturing girls. I see people say that Madoka was about how gaining magical power has a cost, but that sounds like a pretty weak premise for a deconstruction. Being a hero in stories never comes free, the cost is all the responsibilities and dangers involved in being a hero.
 

pellava

Member
May 30, 2019
6
Finland
I would like to point out a positive change in one game series called Trine, which is made by an indie company Frozenbyte. They recently released a trailer for Trine 4 and the woman protagonist (out of three continuous protagonists) had a positive change in her clothing.

So instead of cleavage and cut all the clothes so she shows as much skin as possible, in Trine 4 they actually made her have pants on and an outfit that fits her class and role in the game (thief/stealth). The other two protagonists already looked like their classes, with wizard having a magical robe and the warrior/fighter having an armor, and now Zoya too looks like the class she represents.

2jsVjns.jpg


It feels like more and more women are making decisions for the female characters and it results in us being presented like.......equal humans. Pretty cool huh.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
I would like to point out a positive change in one game series called Trine, which is made by an indie company Frozenbyte. They recently released a trailer for Trine 4 and the woman protagonist (out of three continuous protagonists) had a positive change in her clothing.

So instead of cleavage and cut all the clothes so she shows as much skin as possible, in Trine 4 they actually made her have pants on and an outfit that fits her class and role in the game (thief/stealth). The other two protagonists already looked like their classes, with wizard having a magical robe and the warrior/fighter having an armor, and now Zoya too looks like the class she represents.

2jsVjns.jpg


It feels like more and more women are making decisions for the female characters and it results in us being presented like.......equal humans. Pretty cool huh.
Also because an awful lot of women who do practice archery sportively have posted thousand upon thousands of articles nitpicking the previous desings (and rightfully so) to hell and back . Trine 3 was the most eggregious of them all since she was sporting a double recurve without having the entire arm covered and no sign whatsoever of a protective breast pad . At least in Trine 4 despite droping the double recurve bow they gave her clothing that is ample and poofy enough that you can "head cannon" that she wears a breast plate of some sort under those clothes (not ideal but even atheletes sometimes prefer not having it in view )
 

P-Tux7

Member
Mar 11, 2019
1,344
I didn't wanna make this its own thread out of fear of being called a "clickbaiter" or whatever, but there's something I recently noticed about Super Paper Mario that is very disturbing.

The villain's plan, as shown in the opening cutscene, is to open a dimensional rift that will eat the multiverse. He does so by making a chaotic, universal law-defying act happen - the wedding of Bowser and Princess Peach. Now, you may be asking, since when would Princess Peach agree to do that?

The answer? The villain's minion with mind control powers makes her say "I do"
hqdefault.jpg



Now, you may be thinking "That doesn't count as any form of consent!" I agree! However, this still counts as a "marriage" enough to open the rift.
What the fuck Nintendo.

If this has a better topic to post it in, I'm sorry, I will correct my mistake if it is one.
 

Fairy Godmother

Backward compatible
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
3,289
I would like to point out a positive change in one game series called Trine, which is made by an indie company Frozenbyte. They recently released a trailer for Trine 4 and the woman protagonist (out of three continuous protagonists) had a positive change in her clothing.

So instead of cleavage and cut all the clothes so she shows as much skin as possible, in Trine 4 they actually made her have pants on and an outfit that fits her class and role in the game (thief/stealth). The other two protagonists already looked like their classes, with wizard having a magical robe and the warrior/fighter having an armor, and now Zoya too looks like the class she represents.

2jsVjns.jpg


It feels like more and more women are making decisions for the female characters and it results in us being presented like.......equal humans. Pretty cool huh.
It's nice seeing series getting more respectful for female characters. Unlike Street Fighter and SNK.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
How's everyone doing in our "get rid of all T&A" master plan?

I really got to stop replying to certain people 😒
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,411
Beaumont, CA
I didn't wanna make this its own thread out of fear of being called a "clickbaiter" or whatever, but there's something I recently noticed about Super Paper Mario that is very disturbing.

The villain's plan, as shown in the opening cutscene, is to open a dimensional rift that will eat the multiverse. He does so by making a chaotic, universal law-defying act happen - the wedding of Bowser and Princess Peach. Now, you may be asking, since when would Princess Peach agree to do that?

The answer? The villain's minion with mind control powers makes her say "I do"
hqdefault.jpg



Now, you may be thinking "That doesn't count as any form of consent!" I agree! However, this still counts as a "marriage" enough to open the rift.
What the fuck Nintendo.

If this has a better topic to post it in, I'm sorry, I will correct my mistake if it is one.

Yeah, it's certainly a strange way to kick things off. It's never mentioned again after that. I always thought considering the style of the series they were trying to invoke completely nonsensical cartoon logic. As I recall, Odyssey's whole plot point of Bowser forcing Peach to marry him was talked about here too. I feel that's worse since it persists through the whole game.

I like to think Miyamoto's comments about Mario and company being like a troupe of actors just playing "roles" acting out a "cardboard cutout story".
 
Jan 16, 2018
425
Hope's Peak Academy
I think the basic concept outside of the Gacha elements could have worked for some kind of Pokemon clone with people (like an RPG with hundreds of recruitable human characters, each one with their own stock lines and a side-story), but somehow the idea just seemed to be overlooked until it became a hook for the "free to download, pay for chances at content" model.
I mean Granblue has been nailing the side story part with their fate episodes, and you can say that Xenoblade as a non-paid gatcha system too.
 
Jan 16, 2018
425
Hope's Peak Academy
That's the thing, these stories never had trouble being dark when they needed to be even before a bunch of people decided that they should really be about torturing girls. I see people say that Madoka was about how gaining magical power has a cost, but that sounds like a pretty weak premise for a deconstruction. Being a hero in stories never comes free, the cost is all the responsibilities and dangers involved in being a hero.
Madoka isn't really about the whole at a cost thing as much as best of intentions can be turned in on themselves if invested in unreliable sources . Because of:
  • The whole power as a cost thing
    • Morever, the "Law of Cycles", and how usually your hope will kill you in the long run (see: Sayaka, who wished to heal a boy that eventually is confessed to by another girl)
  • Kyubey being a shady AF person who has probably done stuff to force girls to "Witch out" to further getting that sweet sweet Energy Madoka has

However, It's not really about the suffering as much as it's being about how they deal with it. Fate/Zero is grim as heck, and two episode midway thru kind of hurt me, but it's not really about reveling in the suffering as much as seeing people get out of it.

For example:
Homura's reason why she's been time-looping for all these years is because Making sure Madoka doesn't go into the Magical Girl System Gives Her Hope. Eventually, Madoka does accept Kyubey's contract, but she wishes to destory all witches, and basically changes the system to no long hurt the magical girls.
 

phatmac

Member
Dec 18, 2017
375
Yeah, but hunter is never about saving the world, the one saga it had about that was the very saga that makes you wonder if humans are all shit xD

Stay/night is pretty good but i forgot most of it by now :/
HxH obviously does its deconstruction better than Fate, lol. It just focuses on breaking down the standard hero story in three different ways. The VN and anime aren't for everyone so I get it if people don't like it.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I would like to point out a positive change in one game series called Trine, which is made by an indie company Frozenbyte. They recently released a trailer for Trine 4 and the woman protagonist (out of three continuous protagonists) had a positive change in her clothing.

So instead of cleavage and cut all the clothes so she shows as much skin as possible, in Trine 4 they actually made her have pants on and an outfit that fits her class and role in the game (thief/stealth). The other two protagonists already looked like their classes, with wizard having a magical robe and the warrior/fighter having an armor, and now Zoya too looks like the class she represents.

2jsVjns.jpg


It feels like more and more women are making decisions for the female characters and it results in us being presented like.......equal humans. Pretty cool huh.
That's cool, good spot!
 

Deleted member 51646

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 5, 2019
179
Madoka isn't really about the whole at a cost thing as much as best of intentions can be turned in on themselves if invested in unreliable sources . Because of:
<Madoka Spoilers>

However, It's not really about the suffering as much as it's being about how they deal with it.

The point isn't that Madoka itself as a work was bad, the problem was that its breakout success demonstrated there was a sizable older male market who would watch magical girl anime just because they enjoyed watching cute girls in frilly outfits suffering. Until then, the conventional wisdom was that there was only a very small market of pedos who would watch the shows out of prurient interest, but most shows were targeted at young girls, with Nanoha being the only real exception. Then other works followed trying to exploit the market Madoka opened, many without putting effort into being good magical girl shows, or good shows period. The worst of those are the ones that are just about the suffering.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Do I/we want to know what it was this time?
I'm guessing it's the "It's just a game" thread where more than one poster, but one in particular, said they never enter this thread as they would be banned and we are an echo chamber, aren't willing to show the other side, nothing wrong with liking T&A, yadda yadda etc. :/
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I'm guessing it's the "It's just a game" thread where more than one poster, but one in particular, said they never enter this thread as they would be banned and we are an echo chamber, aren't willing to show the other side, nothing wrong with liking T&A, yadda yadda etc. :/

That doesn't surprise me. That is the same guy who went to a Fire Emblem thread, demanding that women repent before him for daring to suggest that Fire Emblem had a women design problem.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I had to laugh at the idea that pegasus knights aren't part of the T&A brigade. These are young women wearing tiny boobplates, stockings and suspenders.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
I had to laugh at the idea that pegasus knights aren't part of the T&A brigade. These are young women wearing tiny boobplates, stockings and suspenders.
But if iz not neeked iz not exposed so iz doesn't count !

(legit answer you'll get out of guys like him , like legit he is the kind of dudes that would only understand why boob armor is bad by making him wear one and pierce a hole in it with a legit sword and have him see said sword guided by the boob shape so it fucking finaly clicks in his head )
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
That's the thing, these stories never had trouble being dark when they needed to be even before a bunch of people decided that they should really be about torturing girls. I see people say that Madoka was about how gaining magical power has a cost, but that sounds like a pretty weak premise for a deconstruction. Being a hero in stories never comes free, the cost is all the responsibilities and dangers involved in being a hero.
Are they truly hero's tho? They only received this power, as a price to have their wishes fulfilled. In truth, they basically suffered a monkey paw like situation, as most of their wishes backfired. Sure they may save people, but the main thing is that they basically sold their souls and the price is that they have to fight.

I think they only one that might be described as a hero was Madoka herself.
 
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Deleted member 49179

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2018
4,140
But if iz not neeked iz not exposed so iz doesn't count !

(legit answer you'll get out of guys like him , like legit he is the kind of dudes that would only understand why boob armor is bad by making him wear one and pierce a hole in it with a legit sword and have him see said sword guided by the boob shape so it fucking finaly clicks in his head )

Even when discussing with obtuse people, I always felt that discussing the practicality of boob armors (or any other questionable pieces of clothing) like if it existed in real life is a distraction that, more often than not, only mislead from the real issue. The issue that those pieces of clothing are only there to objectify women characters, and exist exclusively because of the historic prevalence of the male gaze in this kind of fiction.
 
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TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Even when discussing with obtuse people, I always felt that discussing the practicality of boob armors (or any other questionable pieces of clothing) like if it existed in real life is a distraction that, more often than not, only mislead from the real issue. The issue that those pieces of clothing are only there to objectify women characters, and exist exclusively because of the historic prevalence of the male gaze in this kind of fiction.
Problem is they don't care one single bit for a single second so until they wear one it just doesn't click in their head.
When I say make them wear one and make them experience the fucking thing I'm not coming to it from the angle of practicality , because that aspect (male gaze and needless sexualization that is ) too is felt and finaly clicks in their heads when they finaly have to thorw in their butts in the fucking thing .
So that's why I'm arguing to "make them wear one" I'm not about "discussing it" I'm about "no bro if it's that much not that big a deal I'm gonna take my rapier here , you're gonna wear a replica and I'm gonna go at it with you while you're wearing that shit" .
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
Problem is they don't care one single bit for a single second so until they wear one it just doesn't click in their head.
When I say make them wear one and make them experience the fucking thing I'm not coming to it from the angle of practicality , because that aspect (male gaze and needless sexualization that is ) too is felt and finaly clicks in their heads when they finaly have to thorw in their butts in the fucking thing .
So that's why I'm arguing to "make them wear one" I'm not about "discussing it" I'm about "no bro if it's that much not that big a deal I'm gonna take my rapier here , you're gonna wear a replica and I'm gonna go at it with you while you're wearing that shit" .

Your approach probably works on some, but there's also a large chunk of men that go 'So what, this isn't real anyways!', fully in the know about how ridiculous the armor is they stroke their cocks to. I think it is important to acknowledge that to some men, women will never be more than an outlet for their sexual wants.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Your approach probably works on some, but there's also a large chunk of men that go 'So what, this isn't real anyways!', fully in the know about how ridiculous the armor is they stroke their cocks to. I think it is important to acknowledge that to some men, women will never be more than an outlet for their sexual wants.
When online and not in person yes there's definitely a possibility of it happening but in the flesh you'll see them all try to weasel their way out of having to wear one and not because it lacks protection but because they know full well that's its objectifying as fuck and don't wanna be seen in one .

(Remember that when I point out the "make them wear one" strategy I'm never talking about online discussion but being in each other's presence )

And when it comes to online there's nothing that can be done to those that are already convinced we are just a bunch of prudes. The only dudes that will hear you out are already having the arguments in the back of their minds just not fleshed out with words from a woman's perspective . So they are already ready to hear you out .

Bhonar is the perfect example of that you'll never convince him it doesn't matter who it is , how it's being formulated , what words are used , what time of the day it is , he'll just striaght up never gonna be convinced . Words are lost on this guy , but taking a hit of a rapier to the breast bone despite a layer of metal being there that's gonna do something .

TL:DR I'm giving you the Android 16 to Gohan speech "sorry kid but saddly yes some dudes are that dense , don't feel bad that you're angry at him , lash out all your power on this punk , cuz there's just no conving him"
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
When online and not in person yes there's definitely a possibility of it happening but in the flesh you'll see them all try to weasel their way out of having to wear one and not because it lacks protection but because they know full well that's its objectifying as fuck and don't wanna be seen in one .

(Remember that when I point out the "make them wear one" strategy I'm never talking about online discussion but being in each other's presence )

And when it comes to online there's nothing that can be done to those that are already convinced we are just a bunch of prudes. The only dudes that will hear you out are already having the arguments in the back of their minds just not fleshed out with words from a woman's perspective . So they are already ready to hear you out .

Bhonar is the perfect example of that you'll never convince him it doesn't matter who it is , how it's being formulated , what words are used , what time of the day it is , he'll just striaght up never gonna be convinced .

Yeah, you're right. It's true wearing something like that in the flesh would be embarrassing as all hell to those people. In regards to people like Bhonar though, I think the problem is less that they are incredibly hard to convince that their opinions enable unjust gender norms, but more so that they simply do not want women to be on equal footing. In my opinion, often times people are not simply uneducated, but straight-up vile. Much like racists, many sexist bigots simply enjoy their 'better' standing. So let's say you put someone like that into battle lingerie, and they get embarrassed as all hell. It won't matter, they'll continue to think that women should wear it all the same. Because women are meant to unlike men, according to them.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Yeah, you're right. It's true wearing something like that in the flesh would be embarrassing as all hell to those people. In regards to people like Bhonar though, I think the problem is less that they are incredibly hard to convince that their opinions enable unjust gender norms, but more so that they simply do not want women to be on equal footing. In my opinion, often times people are not simply uneducated, but straight-up vile. Much like racists, many sexist bigots simply enjoy their 'better' standing. So let's say you put someone like that into battle lingerie, and they get embarrassed as all hell. It won't matter, they'll continue to think that women should wear it all the same. Because women are meant to unlike men, according to them.
And I'm totally in agreement with you on that one , but at least they got ridiculed and you get to have people point and laugh at the mother fuckers . Public shaming the old fashioned way , force them into the situation and have them witness that they're alone in that boat ...

So either way the punishement is a win because either it finally clicks or you have confirmation that you're justified in your angar and they get ridicule by the crowd.

Can we at least agree that Bhonar is in that boat of "you'll never convince him with words"
 
May 13, 2019
1,589
Guy is pretty much spot on about this thread being a echo chamber. It's obvious to anyone who has read more than 5 pages. No issue here for I think that echo chambers are the only way to have meaningful discussions nowadays.

He's, too, right on the money about the elitism plaguing the Fire Emblem fandom. But again, nobody hates FE as much as FE fans so that's par for the course.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
Guy is pretty much spot on about this thread being a echo chamber. It's obvious to anyone who has read more than 5 pages. No issue here for I think that echo chambers are the only way to have meaningful discussions nowadays.

He's, too, right on the money about the elitism plaguing the Fire Emblem fandom. But again, nobody hates FE as much as FE fans so that's par for the course.

I haven't even played a single Fire Emblem in my life, but some of those designs I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. Either way, we have disagreements here all the time, down to large-scale thread fallouts once every few months. We may all agree on the basics, but often disagree on how we would like things to be tackled and changed regardless.
 
May 13, 2019
1,589
Then how come we disagree with each other so many times on so many things . Sorry not sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it too , either we are all in agreement all the time or we're not ...
Those disagreements are always about the same and involve the same people. Every time a new face shows up with a controversial opinnion, they don't last long.

Perhaps it is more like a gated community than an echo chamber.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Those disagreements are always about the same and involve the same people. Every time a new face shows up with a controversial opinnion, they don't last long.

Perhaps it is more like a gated community than an echo chamber.

I mean those "controversial opinions" are usually just thinly veiled sexist talking points so yeah, there's a reason they don't last long.
 
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