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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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I think its funny that all these fans that claim to "love" her as a character are willing to drop her at the thought of her having pants or a smaller chest. Shows how important Tifas character really is to these fans
They love her "character".
God, shit like this makes me appreciate just how classy From Software could be.
The bigger problem is that of course men discussing this have little clue and are always debating the wrong thing. Women in the real world aren't comparable to male fantasies of women (which is what Tifa is), and the problem is the predominance of that objectifying culture, and making patriarchal and backwards ideas culturally acceptable. The videos put out always end up being reductive in the extreme, as well as making non-arguments.
We know body shaming is bad, everyone agrees on this-it has nothing (or little) to do with the problems present in Tifa's design.
You're expecting too much of Japanese publishers / developers. Anything short of a crash isn't going to change anything. Even a crash probably won't change anything, if I had to guess. None of the big devs have experimented with anything in decades at this point. Everything is safe (and also garbage). I'd say From Software is an exception, but they're still on much smaller budgets than anything like a Monster Hunter or Final Fantasy is going to get (basically, a AA developer).
This really does feel like the problem: https://reallifemag.com/well-played-game-boys/
No ambition to try something new. Just new gacha garbage, "lifestyle" games, and Pokemon.
It got assimilated into the homogenized mess that is modern anime aesthetic.
Looking online for Tifa really is tricky. I was doing a Google search for a PS1 screenshot of her and got a picture of one of her figures. Ugh.....
I don't know it it's official as in being licensed by Square Enix, but you can definitely buy one.
This was just a teaser with a neat artstyle. I have no doubt in my mind the game always had its current aesthetic. Don't forget - it's the folks who made God Eater.
With Tifa, I think we're gonna get her OG design. Compared to the initial reveal, Barret looks far more like his original design in the new footage we just saw, with an exaggerated figure (but not as cartoony as his artwork.) I'm assuming Tifa's gonna be the same.
That's not right... I have the figure and it looks more like this:Not official. But this is:
to be fair, I've never even seen that, I always knew it as the waifu souls :/
Tifa's a bartender, correct? I know she lives in the slums, but what if they leaned into that aspect of her character and gave her a classy-looking bartending outfit? I'm picturing something along the lines of King's attire from KoF.
That's not right... I have the figure and it looks more like this:
You gave me a good laugh, thanks for that!
I really don't see how that trailer is less of a "waifu souls", though. All it has going for it is its artstyle. It even has the same characters wearing the same silly clothes.
Tifa's a bartender, correct? I know she lives in the slums, but what if they leaned into that aspect of her character and gave her a classy-looking bartending outfit? I'm picturing something along the lines of King's attire from KoF.
I am not looking forward to SNK trying to sexualize King.
You may not want to know what happens if you finish her off with super moves...
Just as a bit of context, it seems to be emulating how hakama open up at the hips, but it's a bodysuit so it really weird.
It looks like she's wearing tabi (socks that have the big toe separate) and heeled sandals, but the flare at the top of the socks is probably artistic liberty.
I'm not trying to put all of that on Japanese culture as a whole, but at least reading Fahey's description of the game up to that point...yeah, what did he expect? lol
It was all but confirmed to me as soon as the little girl was one of the team members that she wasn't going to be excused from the...let's say fuckery.
WTF is even happening in this gif? lol
King is such a lovely design, but unfortunately she's been sexualized since day one; let's not forget what happens when you beat her in Art of Fighting.
Ehhh, I'm in the camp that Tifa will be fine in the remake. Haven't seen many issues with her outside of ff7. Gonna miss her advent children outfit, bet that's gonna be dlc though.
I was wondering what the fuck that was about Pearl. I've finished the first three games and I can remember no instances of anything inappropriate regarding her (and I don't think she appears in any other games?). Unless I'm forgetting something egregious, I can only think the person you quoted just outed themselves as thinking of children as inherently sexy. :S
Great game, talented director, unrepentant horndog. Pretty much the same as after playing the original Nier and seeing Kaine.
The new trailer for Metal Revolution is killing me. Every other time something interesting with robots comes around, there's always got to be something up. Always.
The cast doesn't look superb, but I feel they're at least a step above generic. But then there just HAS to be a fetishy sexy nun robot. The only bot showing (...with?) skin too. Dammit. Dammit.
The cast doesn't look superb, but I feel they're at least a step above generic. But then there just HAS to be a fetishy sexy nun robot. The only bot showing (...with?) skin too. Dammit. Dammit.
I think they are talking about the channeling. If you remember how the face (and body?) would change into the person they channel into. When Pearl does it they change her body and face to look just like Mia, just like when Maya does it.
I am not sure how to feel about it (Mia's design aside), it is very weird because techincally it is not sexualizing Pearl because it is basically Mia but at the same time it is still Pearl's body.
I kind of appreciate Mr. Taro's openness about being a horn-dog. Like he's all, "Guys, it's ok! I'm a straight dude and I love chicks! Btw, have any y'all read Nietzsche recently? Wild stuff right? "
I'm seeing comments complaining that new Cloud is somehow not buff enough to be ~badass~ (if anything, he's probably too buff considering the events prior to the game...) and you just know these people will suddenly have nothing to say about musculature when she's revealed and inevitably has very slender arms and tiny shoulders/waist despite being a 'fighter' - and also having the type of bust that would typically make broader shoulders develop to support that extra weight. That large busted MMA fighter someone posted a while back is closer to what her body type would be. But we'll get another pinup doll tifa so people can keep pretending it's the personality they like.
As for her outfit, I won't hold my breath since her design was always at odds with her personality. I'm not reading much into Tifa not being shown yet. I think it's just as likely they wanted Aerith to have her own trailer first, being as important as she is (and super popular in Japan)
I forgot about that. I see it as the "regular" kind of problematic that is a female character looking like this:
But that aside, I see her as "Mia wearing Pearl's clothes", and therefore not really sexualization of minors. Mostly because I'd see an hypothetical reverse as "Pearl wearing Mia's clothers" and therefore highly problematic if sexualized, no matter if that'd technically be Mia's body.
Basically the same duck test we use with bullshit 1000 year old dragon Nowi. She looks like Mia, she talks like Mia and she acts like Mia, so she's Mia.
That's pretty much in line with his general self-deprecating humour, which unfortunately means he sees being a horndog as no more or less problematic than any other aspect of his own personality.
can they also please, please get rid of the suspenders and belt. jfc nomura.
Blah, it's just a completely human woman apart from the arms. Really had to force that sex appeal in there.The new trailer for Metal Revolution is killing me. Every other time something interesting with robots comes around, there's always got to be something up. Always.
The cast doesn't look superb, but I feel they're at least a step above generic. But then there just HAS to be a fetishy sexy nun robot. The only bot showing (...with?) skin too. Dammit. Dammit.
Would you guys be ok with a game where BOTH women and men are sexualized?
Is the problem that only women are sexualized? Or is it that sexualization of characters is wrong no matter what?
Sorry for the ignorance.
Is the problem that only women are sexualized? Or is it that sexualization of characters is wrong no matter what?
Sorry for the ignorance.
The problem is that only women are sexualized most of the time. Sexualizing male characters does not really solve the issue.
As discussed before, doling out more objectification regardless of gender doesn't really fix the problem. Regardless, you'll never find a game where the men are as objectified as the women are on a 1:1 ratio because gamers would lose their shit if that happened (see that final fantasy mobile game where gamers demanded they change the lead protagonist's design because it was too sexy).
The real answer is for games to use the concept of sex and desire in a respectful, meaningful way, but that's too hard, so they just fall back and ass and titties because people still go nuts for ass and titties.
My twitter is flooded with artists swooning over the mere concept of Tifa's chest right now after the FF7 trailer, it's kind of sad.
The problem is that female characters are often depicted in ways that run counter to what we're supposed to be viewing them as. The classic example is a female warrior who's supposed to be a tough fighter, but because she's wearing a metal bikini for protection, she just ends up looking ridiculous. And when characters get undercut like this, it can make such games uncomfortable to play.
Context matters a lot, if the same character wore regular armor when she goes out to fight, and just wears the bikini when she's relaxing at the beach, I'd imagine that there would be far fewer complaints. Also, I'd maintain that pose and character composition matters a lot as well. Usually, when female characters are given questionable costumes, they're often posed to show off as much of their T&A as possible; basically making themselves available to the camera. Turn it around, and give these characters the kind of poses that Franzetta male heroes get, and it'd be a lot less egregious. Just making the male characters more sexualized is useful for demonstrating how ridiculous the general idea is, but it doesn't do anything to alleviate the problem.
It's been discussed to death and the problem with that notion is manifold, including but not limited to:
1) Men and women are not sexualized (or more generally, people aren't opressed) by society in the same way. Both genders being equally sexualized in one game is the equivalent of a game portraying both black and white people in stereotypical ways. Or think of Persona 4/5's stereotypical teenage boy horndog party member and stereotypical flamboyant man-chasing NPC couple. Do they cancel each other and make the game OK?
2) MEN would not be OK with a (mainstream) game that sexualizes men, which is why the conversation has remained in the realm of the hypothetical for the past few decades of gaming history. If you're new to feminism and think mainstream videogames sexualize men, it's time to whip out this comic again:
To be frank, men cannot be sexualized and objectified in the same way women can and are. There is no 1:1 comparison here.
Lol, they aren't going to get rid of her og look. The best you can hope for her is that they will add her outfits from her other media appearances. Have my fingers crossed for her advent children look.
yeah, i know they won't :(
there are many, many more important things wrong with the original design but nobody ever should be wearing both suspenders and a belt. ever. as PepsimanVsJoe pointed out.
Then why do devs add this shit?
It's not like sales would plummet if devs toned down the fanservice. Skimpy outfits and no pants certainly don't boost sales either.
So it was brought up about what would happen if both men and women were equally sexualized in the same game.
Maybe not close to "both", but one of the few times a male character was sexualized in a mainstream game in Japan, which was that Final Fantasy mobile game (believe Mobius?), it caused a huge backlash not only in Japan from male players, but plenty of male users on the old forum place. This backlash ended up causing the creators to redesign him because of complaints of being too "sexy".
Meanwhile, they buckle down on issues with Cidney (or Cindy, depending on which rendering you wanna go with), despite constantly complaints, especially among Europeans about her design. Even completely missing the point during one of the RTA segments, saying "They want Female party members, but complain about Cidney, I don't understand.", which is just... Ugh.
Kuja and Vahn often get complaints for similar reasons to the protagonist in that Final Fantasy mobile game (though Vahn's goes beyond that for other reasons, which aren't relevant to this discussion), so it's very clear that many male players are uncomfortable with seeing this. So on the opposite end, they should understand complaints from women, but alas...
Maybe not close to "both", but one of the few times a male character was sexualized in a mainstream game in Japan, which was that Final Fantasy mobile game (believe Mobius?), it caused a huge backlash not only in Japan from male players, but plenty of male users on the old forum place. This backlash ended up causing the creators to redesign him because of complaints of being too "sexy".
Meanwhile, they buckle down on issues with Cidney (or Cindy, depending on which rendering you wanna go with), despite constantly complaints, especially among Europeans about her design. Even completely missing the point during one of the RTA segments, saying "They want Female party members, but complain about Cidney, I don't understand.", which is just... Ugh.
Kuja and Vahn often get complaints for similar reasons to the protagonist in that Final Fantasy mobile game (though Vahn's goes beyond that for other reasons, which aren't relevant to this discussion), so it's very clear that many male players are uncomfortable with seeing this. So on the opposite end, they should understand complaints from women, but alas...
Thanks for posting the original.If you're new to feminism and think mainstream videogames sexualize men, it's time to whip out this comic again:
It feels like all I've seen are edits that completely miss the point.
It's been discussed to death and the problem with that notion is manifold, including but not limited to:
1) Men and women are not sexualized (or more generally, people aren't opressed) by society in the same way. Both genders being equally sexualized in one game is the equivalent of a game portraying both black and white people in stereotypical ways. Or think of Persona 4/5's stereotypical teenage boy horndog party member and stereotypical flamboyant man-chasing NPC couple. Do they cancel each other and make the game OK?
2) MEN would not be OK with a (mainstream) game that sexualizes men, which is why the conversation has remained in the realm of the hypothetical for the past few decades of gaming history. If you're new to feminism and think mainstream videogames sexualize men, it's time to whip out this comic again:
Or those two separate magazine covers of Hugh Jackman.
This take...I have no words... and the comments are 10 times worst. I refuse to believe these people even give one single shit about what real women with large bust go through in there lives. All the comments are going out of there way to defend this shit like theres some great philosophical meaning behind Tifa like:
"Tifa is a strong, optimistic, hard-working, empathetic, emotionally shy young woman who puts the needs of others' before her own and will not hesitate to lay the smackdown on anyone who threatens those in need. But SJWs don't know that cuz they're busy yelling about her boobs, body shame much?"
then you get comments like:
"Keep 'em big. I need at least two good reasons to care about the remake."
Sometimes I wonder whats the point of complaining or arguing against boner culture, it just seems pointless because these people have made up there minds and jump into an argument with no intention to ever try to empathize from the opposing view.
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