Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

[Tunahead]

The sad thing about all this is that I think Aloy has a nice character design and I don't even care if she has an overbite. I only pointed out in my original post on the subject, added here in its entirety,

Actually that's the opposite of believable, because primitive humans all had a regular-ass straight bite from tearing meat apart with their jaws, and the overbite is an entirely modern problem caused by modern utensils and diets. Whoops!

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that an overbite is not a primitive trait because it was brought up that the developers may have thought it might be.

I'm sorry that I've communicated my point poorly, but as you can see from the parts I've highlighted, I was addressing the use of utensils or the lack thereof the whole time.

I am not shifting any goal posts, I am not arguing in bad faith, and I am genuinely upset at myself for spoiling the fun atmosphere of a good thread that I've enjoyed for a long time with a frankly appallingly poor level of communication. I was also angry for what I perceived to be a deliberate misinterpretation of my use of the word "primitive", but as multiple people misinterpreted it in the exact same way, I now realize the fault is entirely mine for communicating my meaning in an unclear way. Apologies.

I'm also sorry about the Horizon: Zero Dawn spoiler, but it was a very long post and one slipped through.

 

[Jaded Photographer]

I'm also sorry if my misinformation might have derailed the thread. Aloy's a good girl imperfections and all.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I dunno about you, but her first outfit seems fetishized to hell and back to me already. You are right though it only got worse in subsequent entries.

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She was, and I mentioned that. But it was subverted because she was strong when taken as a character. She had value. Now, she's just trashy eye candy with irredeemable personality.

Also... keep in mind that to westerners, schoolgirl uniforms are exclusively fetish territory, but in Japan, it's still a common sight in everyday life. It wasn't until last year that Japanese schools started going with the unisex dress code. Granted, miniskirts are not part of any school's uniform.

And remember that out of the entire hypersexualized female cast in No More Heroes, Shinobu's design was one of the most respectable. Though that's an indictment of the game. Literally the entire meta of NMH is that it's surrounding an otaku fantasy, so the pandering was inescapable. It's still disappointing, though.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

Alright, I'll hop on my soap box here.

Shinobu - No More Heroes franchise

She was so good in the first game. A little sassy and definitely guilty of the oktaku's seifuku fantasy, but as a character she was wonderful. Strong, smart, and resilient. She's seeking the murderer of her father, and adopted "Shinobu" as her nom de guerre (real name: Scarlet Jacobs).

Then go to the second game:

Her outfit changed into teddy lingerie. Worse, they literally changed her character into a hypersexual fangirl who wants to fuck Travis and is obsessed with him. And they decided to just retcon "Shinobu" being her assassin name, and now her civilian name is Shinobu Jacobs.

And now we have Travis Strikes Again:

Boob window, midriff, thigh, cameltoe.

I can't facepalm enough. She started off as such a great character because black women are so underrepresented and done so poorly in video games... and now look at her.



Despite a blindingly-ugly site, THIS blog wrote a great article tackling Shinobu's backwards character progression, comparing her to Samus.

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The third design is really... wow. That's a lot of regression in the span of three games.

 

[Lycanthrope -R-]

Granted, miniskirts are not part of any school's uniform.

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Speaking as someone living in Japan...that's debatable. You see schoolkids walking around all the time, and I don't know how some of these girls are getting away with having their skirts hiked up that high. In winter, no less. Maybe some high schools are more lenient than others, or they're just defying rules, but it's crazy.

 

[SolidSnakex]

For one of the best studios in the business to think that the best option to voice a prominent black woman, a demographic that is already underrepresented in games, was a white woman is wrong to me.

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They didn't think it was the best option. Laura Bailey had been cast before Nadine's design had even been decided on. The development for U4 was much faster than they're used to so they didn't have time to take things slowly. They've said that they were basically making a three year game in two years. Which is why casting was done even before characters were set in stone. By comparison, TLoU had three prominent black characters (Marlene, Sam and Henry) and they're all voice/mo-capped by black people. It had a normal development cycle for them.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Speaking as someone living in Japan...that's debatable. You see schoolkids walking around all the time, and I don't know how some of these girls are getting away with having their skirts hiked up that high. In winter, no less. Maybe some high schools are more lenient than others, or they're just defying rules, but it's crazy.

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Lol, fair enough my friend

 

[Tizoc]

The new art for Jaya Ballard Planeswalker card is lovely

 

[Deleted member 29682]

Some nice art in the newest MTG set. Cool to see that the majority of legendary characters represented are women (mind you I think that was also the case in the last set too).

 

[Subconian Dreamer]

This is my fave from the new set. Properly ogre-y big muscular ogre woman getting her smash on

 

[ElBoxy]

Alright, I'll hop on my soap box here.

Shinobu - No More Heroes franchise

She was so good in the first game. A little sassy and definitely guilty of the oktaku's seifuku fantasy, but as a character she was wonderful. Strong, smart, and resilient. She's seeking the murderer of her father, and adopted "Shinobu" as her nom de guerre (real name: Scarlet Jacobs).

Then go to the second game:

Her outfit changed into teddy lingerie. Worse, they literally changed her character into a hypersexual fangirl who wants to fuck Travis and is obsessed with him. And they decided to just retcon "Shinobu" being her assassin name, and now her civilian name is Shinobu Jacobs.

And now we have Travis Strikes Again:

Boob window, midriff, thigh, cameltoe.

I can't facepalm enough. She started off as such a great character because black women are so underrepresented and done so poorly in video games... and now look at her.



Despite a blindingly-ugly site, THIS blog wrote a great article tackling Shinobu's backwards character progression, comparing her to Samus.

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Remember when Nathan threw the two black women at Travis and they both sliced them up to bits? Yeah, as much as I like the NMH franchise shit like that and this is straight up embarrassing, even for Suda's standards.

 

[Tizoc]

Some lovely art in the new set of MTG cards

This is my fave from the new set. Properly ogre-y big muscular ogre woman getting her smash on

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I like to think this is an ogre woman too :P

 

[Deleted member 4976]

I'm replaying the classic RE games and man, going from Jill's outfit in 1 to 3 is just... eh. Why change that...?

 

[Tfritz]

I'm replaying the classic RE games and man, going from Jill's outfit in 1 to 3 is just... eh. Why change that...?

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It's great that the woman who literally works on a SWAT team and knows a zombie apocalypse is bound to happen any day now and even talks about preparing for it ends up in that weird mini skirt/strapless haltertop/cowboy boot number and a pistol.

Granted I am a man who has never worn any of those articles of clothing, so maybe they're actually very protective from things that want to bite you.

 

[kazan]

This is one of those things that are nowhere near as prevalent or dramatic as the OP makes it sound when you only really play "western" games.

Do you remember the Dead or Alive games? Yea theres a reanson they died out. What remains of these over the top grossly sexist games are generally found in the clearance section of unwanted games at a crappy games store.

Now, crossing over to Japanese games... Well the last Japanese game i played was the Souls series. Other than that i avoid anything that has that "anime" aesthetic like the plague. "Fan service" isn't appealing to me at all.

Things get more blurry when CDProject gets called out by people who dislike the what I assume is the female protagonist (I dont know much on the game) for wearing "sexy" underwear...

In her house...

After sex...

So what? The argument is usually. "It doesn't have to be provocative, they could have picked a different color and/or underwear that showed less".

Again, so what? Why should it NOT be provocative, why is that a bad thing?

 

[Tfritz]

Oh boy I wonder how the next page and a half are going to play out

 

[Platy]

This is one of those things that are nowhere near as prevalent or dramatic as the OP makes it sound when you only really play "western" games.

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No it is not but lets say we are only talking about japanese games. You know like MORE THAN HALF OF THE VIDEOGAME INDUSTRY, specially in the 8~32bit

Do you remember the Dead or Alive games? Yea theres a reanson they died out. What remains of these over the top grossly sexist games are generally found in the clearance section of unwanted games at a crappy games store.

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The one game that just had a beta release LITERALLY THIS PAST WEEK ?



You and I have very different ideas of died out.

Now, crossing over to Japanese games... Well the last Japanese game i played was the Souls series. Other than that i avoid anything that has that "anime" aesthetic like the plague. "Fan service" isn't appealing to me at all.

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Congrats. While the Souls series has top effords for armor on women, it has .... some problems that lies in stuff like the famous "great chest ahead" reference.

Things get more blurry when CDProject gets called out by people who dislike the what I assume is the female protagonist (I dont know much on the game) for wearing "sexy" underwear...

In her house...

After sex...

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[citation needed]

So what? The argument is usually. "It doesn't have to be provocative, they could have picked a different color and/or underwear that showed less".

Again, so what? Why should it NOT be provocative, why is that a bad thing?

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It is a bad thing because reinforces bad ideas in society. It is a bad thing because games should aim to accept a bigger audience so the media can grow as a whole. It is a bad thing because only women have nonsense provocative objectifying clothing while the other characters don't bend by those rules.

Welcome to the forum, by the way

 

[Gaming_Groove]

Again, so what? Why should it NOT be provocative, why is that a bad thing?

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IMO that issue is more about the male gaze. I haven't looked at it recently so I may be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall the framing being pretty objectifying.

 

[BigWinnie1]

IMO that issue is more about the male gaze. I haven't looked at it recently so I may be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall the framing being pretty objectifying.

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Are you sure? All I remember it doing is Her waking up a bit groggy with her sex clothes on before getting her shit together at the edge of the bed before she gets up to walk to the bathroom to brush her teeth. Her Sex partner walks naked out to get his clothes and get going. There was no linger on anything beside I think a Lower Shot maybe but it wasn't male gazy.

 

[kazan]

The one game that just had a beta release LITERALLY THIS PAST WEEK

You and I have very different ideas of died out.

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Lmao gross wasn't aware.

It is a bad thing because reinforces bad ideas in society. It is a bad thing because games should aim to accept a bigger audience so the media can grow as a whole. It is a bad thing because only women have nonsense provocative objectifying clothing while the other characters don't bend by those rules.

Welcome to the forum, by the way

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Looking provocative is bad?
They should aim to accept a bigger audience, you're right... They doing that exactly, gamings huge.
I agree, men also should be getting more provocative clothing tbh.

Also, thanks! :)

Are you sure? All I remember it doing is Her waking up a bit groggy with her sex clothes on before getting her shit together at the edge of the bed before she gets up to walk to the bathroom to brush her teeth. Her Sex partner walks naked out to get his clothes and get going. There was no linger on anything beside I think a Lower Shot maybe but it wasn't male gazy.

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Sex clothes? It wasnt even that. She was wearing pink thongs, you know. The type they sell at almost every clothing store including the department store i work casually at.

 

[sabrina]

I agree, men also should be getting more provocative clothing tbh.

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How would that solve the issue that many women are put off by gratuitous sexualization of female characters? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

 

[HockeyBird]

Dead or Alive is certainly not a dead franchise considering a new game is in the development. It may not be as prominent as it was in the early 2000s, I think mostly due to it no longer being a system exclusive and a graphical showcase early on a console's lifespan. But it has maintained a steady release of sequels, updates, and DLC.

 

[BigWinnie1]

Lmao gross wasn't aware.



Looking provocative is bad?
They should aim to accept a bigger audience, you're right... They doing that exactly, gamings huge.
I agree, men also should be getting more provocative clothing tbh.

Also, thanks! :)



Sex clothes? It wasnt even that. She was wearing pink thongs, you know. The type they sell at almost every clothing store including the department store i work casually at.

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I mean those are sex clothes because atleast in my house, My girlfriend or her friends wear shit like that when we are fuckin. Though the Thong is just thongs, the only thing that makes me think sex clothes is the shirt that is cut short to hang loosely over her chest.

 

[Deleted member 5535]

She was, and I mentioned that. But it was subverted because she was strong when taken as a character. She had value. Now, she's just trashy eye candy with irredeemable personality.

Also... keep in mind that to westerners, schoolgirl uniforms are exclusively fetish territory, but in Japan, it's still a common sight in everyday life. It wasn't until last year that Japanese schools started going with the unisex dress code. Granted, miniskirts are not part of any school's uniform.

And remember that out of the entire hypersexualized female cast in No More Heroes, Shinobu's design was one of the most respectable. Though that's an indictment of the game. Literally the entire meta of NMH is that it's surrounding an otaku fantasy, so the pandering was inescapable. It's still disappointing, though.

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You're right that mini skirts aren't part of school uniforms (at least afaik) BUT the girl of the previous example is basically a gyaru and even then, her skirt is quite bigger than what many girls wear outside and in some cases even inside of school since they cut/use a belt in their skirt.

While this one to me seems like a default uniform which isn't as big as other schools. It's more similar in size to the character

And here you have many girls using shorter skirts inside school which idk if it's part of the uniform or they just cut them to be like that lol

More photos on this article:
https://www.tokyotimes.com/japanese-high-school-photos/

Edit: Oh, and here's a video showing how they do that

 

[Korigama]

Dead or Alive is certainly not a dead franchise considering a new game is in the development. It may not be as prominent as it was in the early 2000s, I think mostly due to it no longer being a system exclusive and a graphical showcase early on a console's lifespan. But it has maintained a steady release of sequels, updates, and DLC.

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Pretty sure DoA is more successful as a multiplatform franchise with a userbase primarily concentrated on PlayStation rather than remaining an Xbox exclusive. Getting special marketing attention when Itagaki was around to play favorites didn't amount to much else. Less attention for individual fighting games in general is more of a result of being spoiled for choice with that genre as well as changing market sensibilities and preferences for multiplayer games, with games like Mortal Kombat, Tekken, and Dragon Ball FighterZ being among the few traditional fighters with exceptional sales relative to other genres.

 

[Shingi_70]

Pretty sure DoA is more successful as a multiplatform franchise with a userbase primarily concentrated on PlayStation rather than remaining an Xbox exclusive. Getting special marketing attention when Itagaki was around to play favorites didn't amount to much else. Less attention for individual fighting games in general is more of a result being spoiled for choice with that genre as well as changing market sensibilities and preferences for multiplayer games, with games like Mortal Kombat, Tekken, and Dragon Ball FighterZ being among the few traditional fighters with exceptional sales relative to other genres.

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It's interesting DOA overall has better sales as a multiplatform waifu costume DLC machine that we see in LR. However I'd argue that the previous versions that were attached to Xbox had much more cache than the series currently does. That one two Punch of DOA and Ninja Gaiden did alot for mindshare. The current series just feels mostly niche even whe comparing it too other games in the genre.

 

[Gaming_Groove]

Are you sure? All I remember it doing is Her waking up a bit groggy with her sex clothes on before getting her shit together at the edge of the bed before she gets up to walk to the bathroom to brush her teeth. Her Sex partner walks naked out to get his clothes and get going. There was no linger on anything beside I think a Lower Shot maybe but it wasn't male gazy.

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Just rewatched it now. I'd argue that yes, that sequence is an example of male gaze. We've got:

-A push at the edge of the bed with her side-boob showing.
-A pan up from her legs that includes her butt cheeks and breast again while she is brushing her teeth
-And a wide, voyeuristic shot of her bent over.

Meanwhile the dude is nude for about 3 seconds while running crouched over off screen to get dressed. I think it's pretty hard to argue that the sequence was cut with anything other than a hetero male perspective.

 

[Korigama]

It's interesting DOA overall has better sales as a multiplatform waifu costume DLC machine that we see in LR. However I'd argue that the previous versions that were attached to Xbox had much more cache than the series currently does. That one two Punch of DOA and Ninja Gaiden did alot for mindshare. The current series just feels mostly niche even whe comparing it too other games in the genre.

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Fighting games in general are niche now with the exception of ones like those I've mentioned. I wouldn't consider the mindshare any greater or less than the likes of Soul Calibur at this point, with both still being in a better place than Guilty Gear and arguably current BlazBlue. Killer Instinct is an MS exclusive for Xbox and PC, yet that certainly doesn't get more attention either.

 

[Shingi_70]

Fighting games in general are niche now with the exception of ones like those I've mentioned. I wouldn't consider the mindshare any greater or less than the likes of Soul Calibur at this point, with both still being in a better place than Guilty Gear and arguably current BlazBlue. Killer Instinct is an MS exclusive for Xbox and PC, yet that certainly doesn't get more attention either.

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KI deserves so much more love.

I guess the thing is even within the niche it feels like DOA gets lumped in with stuff like senran Kagura and all those niche RPGs like neptuina.

But outside of MK, Smash, Tekken, and SF genre is niche.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

Just rewatched it now. I'd argue that yes, that sequence are an example of male gaze. We've got:

-A push at the edge of the bed with her side-boob showing.
-A pan up from her legs that includes her butt cheeks and breast again while she is brushing her teeth
-And a wide, voyeuristic shot of her bent over.

Meanwhile the dude is nude for about 3 seconds while running crouched over off screen to get dressed. I think it's pretty hard to argue that the sequence was cut with anything other than a hetero male perspective.

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Is this a Cyberpunk thing? Can I get a link? Curious to see for myself because what you described sounds very male gaze-y lol

 

[Laughing Banana]

Do you remember the Dead or Alive games? Yea theres a reanson they died out. What remains of these over the top grossly sexist games are generally found in the clearance section of unwanted games at a crappy games store.

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Lol, under what crazy measure is Dead or Alive games are "dying out" when they're just about to release a new one, lol.

 

[HockeyBird]

Pretty sure DoA is more successful as a multiplatform franchise with a userbase primarily concentrated on PlayStation rather than remaining an Xbox exclusive. Getting special marketing attention when Itagaki was around to play favorites didn't amount to much else. Less attention for individual fighting games in general is more of a result of being spoiled for choice with that genre as well as changing market sensibilities and preferences for multiplayer games, with games like Mortal Kombat, Tekken, and Dragon Ball FighterZ being among the few traditional fighters with exceptional sales relative to other genres.

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I meant prominence in terms of media coverage. It had a big push from Microsoft on Xbox and Xbox 360. Nowadays it's just another fighting game franchise rather than a major console exclusive, designed to show off the power of the Xbox consoles..

 

[Korigama]

KI deserves so much more love.

I guess the thing is even within the niche it feels like DOA gets lumped in with stuff like senran Kagura and all those niche RPGs like neptuina.

But outside of MK, Smash, Tekken, and SF genre is niche.

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With DoA, the continued existence of DoAX doesn't help in respect to perception. 5:LR and how 6 has been going representing decent fighting games, albeit no more likely to interest the FGC than before with the latter, but there not being an actual volleyball game worth playing in DoAX with the exception of the first one and that acting as nothing more than a pretense for the rest of that sub-series (they're primarily dating sims).

I meant prominence in terms of media coverage. It had a big push from Microsoft on Xbox and Xbox 360. Nowadays it's just another fighting game franchise rather than a major console exclusive, designed to show off the power of the Xbox consoles..

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No fighting game really serves as a showcase for the power of any given console at this point, though. And while the backgrounds were impressive back during those days, the art style of the character models undermined the work put in on them (with the art style and character models being much improved with modern DoA at the expense of worse backgrounds).

 

[timedesk]

Fighting games feel like they have really regressed in the past six or so years. While MK and Injustice manage to have some pretty decent storytelling and have at least tried to make functional designs for it's female cast, you also have games like DOA with it's hundreds of dollars worth of sexy dress up dlc, and now even Street Fighter has joined the sexy dlc party. Fighting games sometimes feel like they are going the way of Fie Emblem with designing women more as "wifus" than as interesting characters in their own rights.

 

[Gaming_Groove]

I this a Cyberpunk thing? Can I get a link? Curious to see for myself because what you described sounds very male gaze-y lol

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7:56 if it doesn't start there on its own.

 

[Shingi_70]

Fighting games feel like they have really regressed in the past six or so years. While MK and Injustice manage to have some pretty decent storytelling and have at least tried to make functional designs for it's female cast, you also have games like DOA with it's hundreds of dollars worth of sexy dress up dlc, and now even Street Fighter has joined the sexy dlc party. Fighting games sometimes feel like they are going the way of Fie Emblem with designing women more as "wifus" than as interesting characters in their own rights.

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For better or worse it's what sales. I won't even pretend that i haven't bought costumes because of that reason. Even games which are better in this regard like Overwatch have their skin choices based on the same thing.

 

[Tfritz]

7:56 if it doesn't start there on its own.

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god the dialogue in this is still so embarrassing. i get they want to show it's a Cool Serious Gritty Game For Adults Only! but it's so thirteen year old boy.

 

[Zhukov]

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I didn't realize Japan was suffering from an epidemic of pigeon toe.

 

[timedesk]

For better or worse it's what sales. I won't even pretend that i haven't bought costumes because of that reason. Even games which are better in this regard like Overwatch have their skin choices based on the same thing.

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You're absolutely right, and I won't lie and pretend I've never bought a skin or equipped an armor that I thought made a character look cool or attractive. My problem is just that most fighting games don't really give their female cast anything other than a costume to characterize them, which makes the increased sexualization of them more troublesome. When a game gives a character a solid story I can at least get attached to the character and her motivations.

The problem is that most fighting games don't even bother to give their cast any real story or plot. Tekken 7 and Soulcalibur 6 are examples. Most of the female cast don't really feature in their main story modes at all. They have a few token lines, and then nothing. So as a casual player/observer all they become is just more in a long line of disposable sex appeal fodder rather than interesting characters I would preorder the next game to follow.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

7:56 if it doesn't start there on its own.

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I'm curious how that would play out if we're playing a male character instead. This is currently the only gameplay footage of the game, right?

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

7:56 if it doesn't start there on its own.

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Yeah I see what you're saying here. That shot of her on the bed, while not horribly blatant, is angled in a way where you can see both her sideboob, and that camera push stops just shy of making her vagina visible.

Shot of her brushing, with that pan up her legs... blatant.

The dude barely has any screen time and all you see is his ass, which isn't shot in a sexual way imo and honestly is what you'd likely see in a standard Hollywood film. I'm guessing the women ITT can confirm that the way it's presentation doesn't do anything for them?

It's definitely not as bad as many other examples, but it's still an example and it's totally valid to point it out for what it is and what it's still contributing to.

Also, gonna be honest, I haven't kept up with Cyberpunk whatsoever since I don't even have any platforms that can run it atm, and I see where people are coming from with the adolescent-esque elements. Can't believe they actually used "mature, visceral" to describe this lol. I thought that PR language had been mocked out of usage by now.

 

[Tfritz]

I'm curious how that would play out if we're playing a male character instead. This is currently the only gameplay footage of the game, right?

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Allegedly, the devs have said the scene is the same if you're playing as a male character, right down to the man in the bed. But, like, we'll see.

 

[Icemonk191]

This is one of those things that are nowhere near as prevalent or dramatic as the OP makes it sound when you only really play "western" games.

Do you remember the Dead or Alive games? Yea theres a reanson they died out. What remains of these over the top grossly sexist games are generally found in the clearance section of unwanted games at a crappy games store.

Now, crossing over to Japanese games... Well the last Japanese game i played was the Souls series. Other than that i avoid anything that has that "anime" aesthetic like the plague. "Fan service" isn't appealing to me at all.

Things get more blurry when CDProject gets called out by people who dislike the what I assume is the female protagonist (I dont know much on the game) for wearing "sexy" underwear...

In her house...

After sex...

So what? The argument is usually. "It doesn't have to be provocative, they could have picked a different color and/or underwear that showed less".

Again, so what? Why should it NOT be provocative, why is that a bad thing?

Click to shrink...

Let's see..
1: Joined today.
2: Only has 4 posts
3: Half of them are in here trying to start shit.

Well dude you completely fooled me into not realizing that this is a burner account.

Spoiler

Do they know that they can be spotted a mile away or are they just that dumb?

 

[Korigama]

Fighting games feel like they have really regressed in the past six or so years. While MK and Injustice manage to have some pretty decent storytelling and have at least tried to make functional designs for it's female cast, you also have games like DOA with it's hundreds of dollars worth of sexy dress up dlc, and now even Street Fighter has joined the sexy dlc party. Fighting games sometimes feel like they are going the way of Fie Emblem with designing women more as "wifus" than as interesting characters in their own rights.

Click to shrink...

A significant amount of Japanese character designs tend to prioritize what either the designers or their home market would consider cool or sexy when working with less grounded concepts/scenarios (not that all use more restraint in grounded ones, either), with emphasizing practicality/plausibility tending to be more of a focus with Western designers. Knowing that male consumers with disposable income will acquire cosmetic DLC catering to them only reinforces developers devoting resources to it, whether it be a costume here and a costume there, or the whales who buy up everything (who I'm also pretty sure overlap with otaku the anime industry relies upon having buy expensive merchandise and home video releases).

I wouldn't say that's anything new with fighting games so much as being more noticeable in an age where consumers have far more options for that sort of thing with bonus costumes they can shell out for to personalize their favorites, leading everyone to be the sexy character rather than one or two serving that role (though many fighters end up being that way even without paid DLC taken into account). Success in making stories or their characters interesting in their own right tends to be less common with that genre, though having those characters dressed in certain ways can potentially undermine any ability to take dramatic storytelling seriously the same as any other genre or medium.

You're absolutely right, and I won't lie and pretend I've never bought a skin or equipped an armor that I thought made a character look cool or attractive. My problem is just that most fighting games don't really give their female cast anything other than a costume to characterize them, which makes the increased sexualization of them more troublesome. When a game gives a character a solid story I can at least get attached to the character and her motivations.

The problem is that most fighting games don't even bother to give their cast any real story or plot. Tekken 7 and Soulcalibur 6 are examples. Most of the female cast don't really feature in their main story modes at all. They have a few token lines, and then nothing. So as a casual player/observer all they become is just more in a long line of disposable sex appeal fodder rather than interesting characters I would preorder the next game to follow.

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Every character gets their own story alongside the main one in Chronicles of the Soul, which I regard as the primary story mode in SCVI. That said, there does seem to be more attention focused on the men in the CaS-centered Libra of the Soul, at least from what I've played so far.

 

[kazan]

Let's see..
1: Joined today.
2: Only has 4 posts
3: Half of them are in here trying to start shit.

Well dude you completely fooled me into not realizing that this is a burner account.

Spoiler

Do they know that they can be spotted a mile away or are they just that dumb?

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Actually, we've all been just having a standard discussion. No ones started shit. Imagine calling me out on my post count while shitposting like you and not adding anything to the discussion

 

[timedesk]

I wouldn't say that's anything new with fighting games so much as being more noticeable in an age where consumers have far more options for that sort of thing with bonus costumes they can shell out for to personalize their favorites, leading everyone to be the sexy character rather than one or two serving that role (though many fighters end up being that way even without paid DLC taken into account). Success in making stories or their characters interesting in their own right tends to be less common with that genre, though having those characters dressed in certain ways can undermine any ability to take dramatic storytelling seriously the same as any other genre or medium.

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You're probably right, and it's not a more recent trend. I really hope that fighting games continue to evolve their storytelling so that their cast can continue to get more fleshed out. I honestly feel like if the stories at least treat the female cast with respect and give them some good plot threads, it can combat some of the more gross objectification for casual players.

Every character gets their own story alongside the main one in Chronicles of the Soul, which I regard as the primary story mode in SCVI. That said, there does seem to be more attention focused on the men in the CaS-centered Libra of the Soul, at least from what I've played so far.

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You're absolutely right that everyone has their own path, in the CotS mode, but even that has a main path that mostly focuses on Kilik and kind of takes away Xianghua's biggest contribution to the old cannon. The individual storylines are not bad, but most of the cast feels ancillary to the main plot of the game.

 

[TheMango55]

Just rewatched it now. I'd argue that yes, that sequence is an example of male gaze. We've got:

-A push at the edge of the bed with her side-boob showing.
-A pan up from her legs that includes her butt cheeks and breast again while she is brushing her teeth
-And a wide, voyeuristic shot of her bent over.

Meanwhile the dude is nude for about 3 seconds while running crouched over off screen to get dressed. I think it's pretty hard to argue that the sequence was cut with anything other than a hetero male perspective.

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Do you think the camera angles will change based on the character selection?

CDPR's games have often had a male gaze issue, but I don't know that I'd consider this an example.

 

[Korigama]

You're absolutely right that everyone has their own path, in the CotS mode, but even that has a main path that mostly focuses on Kilik and kind of takes away Xianghua's biggest contribution to the old cannon. The individual storylines are not bad, but most of the cast feels ancillary to the main plot of the game.

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That's a shame regarding Xianghua. The bolded is disappointing but not surprising, as it seems to be a problem with every fighting game story I've seen (can't really think of one that did all that well with having most of the cast actually be relevant in the grand scheme).

 

[deimosmasque]

I'm not going to lie I do like SC6's story mode because the truth is that these disparate characters from all over the world shouldn't all find there way to the same thing. I like how Misarigu and Maxi for example don't get near it as they travel.

But the focus on Kilik over Xianghua is just so wierd to me. Xianghua has Soul Caliber. That's been established since the first game that bore the name.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Allegedly, the devs have said the scene is the same if you're playing as a male character, right down to the man in the bed. But, like, we'll see.

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Yar, I wonder if the game just automatically assign the partner as the main character's sexual partner and it's a fixed scene as a part of the main story, or if it's an optional scene based on the protagonist's relationship with him.

That's a shame regarding Xianghua. The bolded is disappointing but not surprising, as it seems to be a problem with every fighting game story I've seen (can't really think of one that did all that well with having most of the cast actually be relevant in the grand scheme).

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I feel that BlazBlue is pretty good in giving all its characters important roles bar one or two people. Then again, their story mode is like 20 hours long.