If you like western open world RPGs , go for it. Even the combat isn't that bad compared to other games on it's style.
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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If you like western open world RPGs , go for it. Even the combat isn't that bad compared to other games on it's style.
What would a 'male sexualisation' bingo board even look like? I mean, sure, you've got the topless, focus on abs/crotch stuff, but it's not like you've got large chunks of multiple huge media forms like comics, games or anime treating their heroic adventuring outfits as lingerie/swimsuits first with scraps of armour that only exist to draw the eye elsewhere. I'd love to see someone that argues that 'men are sexualised just as much/two sides of a coin' offer a board of such cliches, there's a reason so many of them are an easy shorthand here, because everyone knows what you mean when you say 'boobwindow' etc. Even then, the camerawork and the way the director has it caress the female form adds to the whole effect.
I think maybe you could argue that Spider-man artists often go for 'crouched, lithe, agile, ready-to-pounce animalistic attacker with a nice arse', but to compare that to the endless female equivalents misses a lot of the context in dialogue, framing and costume that tend to make it a sexually charged pose for one and not the other.
Just because I've mentioned it upthread, when Spider-man wears a paper bag on his head it's because he lost his costume in a fistfight, not because the artist wants us to focus on his chest instead, and in any case his outfit's mask deliberately doesn't show his face anyway.
I think maybe you could argue that Spider-man artists often go for 'crouched, lithe, agile, ready-to-pounce animalistic attacker with a nice arse', but to compare that to the endless female equivalents misses a lot of the context in dialogue, framing and costume that tend to make it a sexually charged pose for one and not the other.
Just because I've mentioned it upthread, when Spider-man wears a paper bag on his head it's because he lost his costume in a fistfight, not because the artist wants us to focus on his chest instead, and in any case his outfit's mask deliberately doesn't show his face anyway.
I'm so torn.
The combat is the worst it's ever been, but literally everything else is great (though the VO is a little swords-and-sandals-ish, which I'm sensitive to having grown up on MST3k).
It wish it was more fun to play because it's doing some amazing stuff.
Like a realistic one or a "comparative to female objectification" one?
This is particularly cute because I think each one of these examples is paired with 2 in lore examples of sexual objectification of the leading women within. It reads more like, "there are attractive men, and the concept of attractive men on screen is objectification".
Pretty much you have Dick Grayson as the sole Comic Book male that is constantly and consistently objectified. I guess another thing for the bingo would be water/sweat as that seems common.
I'm so torn.
The combat is the worst it's ever been, but literally everything else is great (though the VO is a little swords-and-sandals-ish, which I'm sensitive to having grown up on MST3k).
It wish it was more fun to play because it's doing some amazing stuff.
Like a realistic one or a "comparative to female objectification" one?
Interesting. Might buy it later then.
I don't know, the idea of 'comparable but different' seems to be mooted now and then by some posters, I suspect they'd be very different. I suppose I'm arguing that I'm not sure the latter even exists after decades of combat lingerie and boobplates and fetish armour and platemail high heels etc. It's like the window of sexualised design elements for female characters has been pushed so far that attempting to put that stuff on a guy just looks weird as it's so unusual, while fans of heavily sexualised female outfits don't bat an eyelid if it's two bits of string and three tin lids.
How would you see the difference between the former and the latter? I suspect my wife would add 'Thor's arms' on the former while sticking that dick bandage thing (!?) image that pops up now and then on the latter, but that stuff just isn't common enough to make it comparable. Which is the joke of the bingo board, I suppose! I'd just like to see someone attempt to make a 'comparable to female objectification' one to prove how incomparable and uncommon it really is.
I mean, I posted a FE Heroes character early this week that almost hit the entire board, even if I could think of 25 sexualised design elements for guys I don't think we'd get Nintendo putting out characters on a regular basis that had us shouting 'bingo!' :D
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Pretty much.
It's not just even about boobplate or bikini armour anymore or "generic sexy" Red Sonja-like designs anymore (though that can fuck off too). We've had everything from underboob, battle thongs, battle thongs worn over the clothing, and all manners of such stupidity, often mixed with sexualized bodies so twisted that they look grotesque rather than sexy. Like some of the XC2 blades, Ivy, or the girl in Code of Princess - those are hard to beat.
For me, examples of male sexualization that are even a little bit equivalent to what female sexualization are rare, but I've seen a few. Even then they rarely cross into the most degrading of examples, though. Here's one I remember coming across a few years ago and I just laughed and thought "wow, this dude is designed like a Fantasy Video Game Female Character!":
And sure enough, he looks ridiculous and goofy, rather than cool or sexy. At least, to me. YMMV I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean does anyone actually think this is hot? lol
Like...to be honest, and this is me, a straight CIS male talking, none of the things that ever get brought up as examples to comparative objectification come across as sexy. They're outlandish to the point of comedy. And that's sort of the point I guess, to the degree that women look at what some of these painted on designs are and laugh, shaking their heads in amused-yet-bemused objection while most guys take those same designs and tape them to their walls.
I don't know. It's like...that one picture of the black guy sort of dressed up as Raiden with his extremely large penis wrapped up in loosely hanging linens...if there was a game that did those kinds of designs, would anyone really want it?
That's the plight right? We know guys want the objectified female concepts, they can't stop using them to save their lives, but with the opposite, is that a thing anyone really wants?
It's probably time for us to take the, "let's objectify people evenly" thing off the table because I don't know if it makes any sense.
Pretty much.
It's not just even about boobplate or bikini armour anymore or "generic sexy" Red Sonja-like designs anymore (though that can fuck off too). We've had everything from underboob, battle thongs, battle thongs worn over the clothing, and all manners of such stupidity, often mixed with sexualized bodies so twisted that they look grotesque rather than sexy. Like some of the XC2 blades, Ivy, or the girl in Code of Princess - those are hard to beat.
For me, examples of male sexualization that are even a little bit equivalent to what female sexualization are rare, but I've seen a few. Even then they rarely cross into the most degrading of examples, though. Here's one I remember coming across a few years ago and I just laughed and thought "wow, this dude is designed like a Fantasy Video Game Female Character!":
And sure enough, he looks ridiculous and goofy, rather than cool or sexy. At least, to me. YMMV I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean does anyone actually think this is hot? lol
Like yeah, this sucks. This is a visual gag. I, personally, cannot take it seriously.
Man, I have been arguing with people about this on this forum for days. I don't understand how people like the combat, it's so bad and it takes so long and it feels so limp.
40 hours into the game and it still takes an upwards of 5 or 6 combo strings, that the enemy can just choose to get out of if they want, to down a captain class of the same level. SO TERRIBLE!
Pretty much.
It's not just even about boobplate or bikini armour anymore or "generic sexy" Red Sonja-like designs anymore (though that can fuck off too). We've had everything from underboob, battle thongs, battle thongs worn over the clothing, and all manners of such stupidity, often mixed with sexualized bodies so twisted that they look grotesque rather than sexy. Like some of the XC2 blades, Ivy, or the girl in Code of Princess - those are hard to beat.
For me, examples of male sexualization that are even a little bit equivalent to what female sexualization are rare, but I've seen a few. Even then they rarely cross into the most degrading of examples, though. Here's one I remember coming across a few years ago and I just laughed and thought "wow, this dude is designed like a Fantasy Video Game Female Character!":
And sure enough, he looks ridiculous and goofy, rather than cool or sexy. At least, to me. YMMV I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean does anyone actually think this is hot? lol
Funnily enough, he's actually in-universe the most badass character in the series. People are afraid of him and he's always the most difficult boss in any game he's in. (In fact, in DQVI, if you survive for 20 turns, he will go to the final boss and kill him for you). He also is taken very seriously in dialogue too.
I'd argue AC's combat has never been that good, you just can't spam counter now. At least there are options to avoid it most of the time.
Bingo! :DPretty much.
It's not just even about boobplate or bikini armour anymore or "generic sexy" Red Sonja-like designs anymore (though that can fuck off too). We've had everything from underboob, battle thongs, battle thongs worn over the clothing, and all manners of such stupidity, often mixed with sexualized bodies so twisted that they look grotesque rather than sexy. Like some of the XC2 blades, Ivy, or the girl in Code of Princess - those are hard to beat.
For me, examples of male sexualization that are even a little bit equivalent to what female sexualization are rare, but I've seen a few. Even then they rarely cross into the most degrading of examples, though. Here's one I remember coming across a few years ago and I just laughed and thought "wow, this dude is designed like a Fantasy Video Game Female Character!":
And sure enough, he looks ridiculous and goofy, rather than cool or sexy. At least, to me. YMMV I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean does anyone actually think this is hot? lol
Yeah. When we've reached the point that characters in a Nintendo game can only wear platemail if it still shows off their suspenders, stockings and panties (Hi Camilla, Hi Effie), it's hard to see any way back.
Yeah, you're right. I just thought I'd idly try and see if it was even possible to do with a straight face, obviously not. 'Sexualise the guys too' is just a way of covering the subtext 'as long as you don't stop dressing the women up in these outfits'.
The problem with a malie bingo card is that at best we're talking like one franchises (Twilight) were male characters are sexualised outside of their control and even then, it's nothing.
Because I mean, even then, Edward Cullenes sexualisationis nothing compared to women vampires in any other vampire film. You'll never see anything in Twilight of him approaching the Bride's from Van Helsing or Kate Beckinsale in Underworld.
Agree on Grayson. Maybe sweat too, although isn't water applicable to both? Certainly the way shower scenes seem to love female characters (and they tend to leave the door open to let the cameraman join them) generally has it as at least a sexual/sensual element for both, with a tendency for the camerawork to lean towards objectifying women more. I'm thinking of Daniel Craig's James Bond shot in his trunks on the beach referencing the tendency of female characters to be in skimpy swimsuits too. Water often seems to be used as a feminine element.
I was in the sci-fi/fantasy section of a bookshop the other day (shocking I know) and only them realised there was a huge 'supernatural romance' section aimed at young women. It does seem to be a difference that female vampires (and the 'femme fatale trope in general) like to present to male adventurers as 'extremely seductive, extremely forward, extremely dangerous and will kill you if you can't careful', (I'm aware Beckinsale is the lead in her films but am guessing it's aimed at a standard male action film audience). Thus making it a contest of extreme willpower and physicality between two powerful (in different ways) characters, whereas these 'supernatural romance' characters seem more neutered, safer and less of a direct threat somehow. Perhaps because the protagonist is less likely to be framed as a combatant, and thus comparisons aren't drawn between conflict and flirting in 'battle of the sexes witty repartee', and thus both are less likely to be primarily resolved/handled through the medium of hand-to-hand combat! That goes for superheroes too I suppose, notably Black Cat/Spider-Man and Batman/Catwoman/Poison Ivy.
It's been a while since I've seen it but how did they handle 'Angel' in the Buffy spinoff? Or Spike? I wonder if you could argue if either of them counted as a 'homme fatale' at any point, considering that Buffy was pretty much a superhero and loads of scenes treated insults, flirting and combat as similar to the above!
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There is a LOT of good about the game. First starting with Kassandra. She is just the best, period. The game has a wonderful sense of humor and is very inclusive. And on top of that it doesn't berate you for choosing to play as Kassandra, (think batman goons suddenly calling you a bitch if you play as a female character). The design of the game works really well as it takes you from town to town, each one having it's own unique quest line and characters on top of unexpected appearances from characters you've met before in the game. The way it plays is fantastic, asking you to choose a specific build, (you can respec at any time btw), and never feeling like you're going through a series of super linear missions. So you choose to play the way you want and the game accommodates. Combat and general in general is incredibly responsive as it responds to your inputs more so than any other AC game.
and the game rewards you for experimenting and using logic. Like, if you shoot and arrow through fire it becomes a fire arrow and does extra damage. You have a torch that you can pull out at any time, you can drop the torch. Theoretically, you could whip out an torch, drop it, and it'd be a fire source to turn arrows into fire arrows right? The game says yes:
The game tends to say "Yes that works" quite a lot. Not as much as something like BOTW, but definitely more than a decent amount.
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When I try to imagine a male character dressed like Pyra, all I can picture is Frank N Furter wielding a blatantly phallic sword.
And we all know how uncomfortable hetro men get around Frank N Furter, right?
And we all know how uncomfortable hetro men get around Frank N Furter, right?
Perhaps even Frank N Furter, but bizarrely initially characterised with all the experience, sexuality and sensual wiles of Brad, while still dressed as the doctor in his fishnets and wielding a blatantly phallic sword. At least until act 2 :D
Is it weird that I'm more familiar with Rocky Horror than all the anime chat in here :D
From Rocky horror Picture Show.
Ah.
Confession time, I've never actually seen this movie. Is it good?
It's worth seeing as a sort of cultural touchstone. Go see a theatrical production of it if you want to see an old-school fan base that really loves the object of their adoration rather than just bickers on the internet about it.
It's funny because I have the exact same question about most of the female character designs posted in this thread. Well, except replace "goofy" with "outright stupid".
My pet theory growing up was that the vast majority of people who care don't actually find most of those designs attractive, but rather treat them as a shibboleth for "Mature"(TM) stuff in video games. But later on, I got exposed to a variety of anime fanart, and I guess there is some audience for everything. It's still not clear to me how much of the current audience for the game in question actually likes this stuff though (as opposed to either seeing it as a shibboleth or just putting up with it).
Yeah maybe. For me that ain't sexy lol. Just outright stupid-looking.I seen some gay men speaks in favor of Kuja, does that count ?
Note also that some of its portrayal of what would be considered trans issues today is, well, about as dated as the specific wording to this disclaimer makes it sound
What do you think about these artworks for Witcher 2 ? This here is a unknown female character from Zerrikania (land with hot climate located in the south-eastern part of the continent filled with many deserts and steppes which are roamed by exotic wild beasts such as venomous basilisks, tigers, antelopes and even leopards) - there were plans for the final act in the game to take place in there and Dol Blathanna (an elven state), but because of lack of resources and time that whole last act was scrapped
It always amuses me how fantasy characters living in desert regions have so much exposed skin, when people who live in actual real life desert areas cover the fuck up.What do you think about these artworks for Witcher 2 ? This here is a unknown female character from Zerrikania (land with hot climate located in the south-eastern part of the continent filled with many deserts and steppes which are roamed by exotic wild beasts such as venomous basilisks, tigers, antelopes and even leopards) - there were plans for the final act in the game to take place in there and Dol Blathanna (an elven state), but because of lack of resources and time that whole last act was scrapped
Seriously, all I can think about looking at that picture is how the dust storms are going to tear her to shreds, not to mention the sun damage to the skin.
Well, Zerrikania is a country that is not only sand.. as a whole it's similiar to Africa - as in it has desert regions, but it has jungles and other types of environments.. it could be that the character wasn't from a desert region
That's a good idea, not just for the reasons you stated, but also to make it 100% clear just in case people might be unsure that I only add the pants!
I've been playing a lot of Magic: The Gathering Arena recently. I had no real experience with MTG but had some vague feeling that the community had a bad reputation. So I was quite pleasantly surprised that a lot of the (relatively recent anyway) card art is remarkably non-sexualised for a long running fantasy franchise. There's a lot of diverse representation in both the cards and the underlying story and setting. I've heard Wizards of the Coast have made some big strides towards being inclusive in recent years, so no doubt that's played a part. Naturally this has drawn some backlash from the less savoury parts of the community, but by and large the fanbase have been supportive of WotC's efforts, so I feel kind of bad for judging them so prematurely.
MtG has had a lot of really awesome female characters over the years, but I stopped playing and really following it around 2006 or so. It was a really delightful surprise to find how many really cool and diverse heroes they have added since. I wish they had some kind of story mode or something you could play to learn more about some of these really interesting characters.
On the topic of needing pants, I've been having an absolute blast playing Orochi Warriors 4. It brings almost all the characters from Dynasty and Samurai warriors and while a lot of designs are range from impractical to awful in terms of this topic some are a little better and some I quite like.
I was playing as Xing Cai who was a favourite of mine way back in DW5. In Orochi you pick three characters and you swap almost instantly mid battle into an attack and I didn't actually run around the field much as Xing Cai. When I did though I had to do a double take. She leans forward in her running animation and her little butt flap bouncing about flashes her ass and panties every step.
Tachibana Ginchiyo though is pretty badass, despite the heels.
I was playing as Xing Cai who was a favourite of mine way back in DW5. In Orochi you pick three characters and you swap almost instantly mid battle into an attack and I didn't actually run around the field much as Xing Cai. When I did though I had to do a double take. She leans forward in her running animation and her little butt flap bouncing about flashes her ass and panties every step.
Tachibana Ginchiyo though is pretty badass, despite the heels.
Yeah, I was actually going to mention that too, she looks better in Nioh than Samurai Warriors 4 but it's so relaxing plowing through hordes of enemies with a lightning sword and her magic uses a very satisfying hammer throw. That and you dont get to play as her in Nioh.
No stop, I already bought 1 game, I can't buy another. I'm also really interested in Warriors Orochi 4.
I-it's pretty good Xas. I hear the latest patch fixed a lot of performance issues too. I skipped OW3U, that definitely has more content it seems but I'm still having a great time with this.
I bought the DLC costume pack, 1 costume per character. For the SW crew we get some nice kimono style outfits for most character. DW crew gets weirder stuff, chefs, butlers, magician, flight attender, surgeon.
I bought the DLC costume pack, 1 costume per character. For the SW crew we get some nice kimono style outfits for most character. DW crew gets weirder stuff, chefs, butlers, magician, flight attender, surgeon.
SW charge dash spam team
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Nioh's style is so cool. I wish I liked Souls games that aren't Salt and Sanctuary.
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Kassandra from AC Odyssey really is peak sexy-but-not-sexualised female character design (god shes so hot and im so gay). I feel like she was designed to appeal more to gay women than straight men lol
Speaking of the Warriors games, here is how Yueying looked when she debuted in DW4:
She found her pants she lost along the way, but her armor is still MIA and is suffering from "every female character in this game must be gorgeous" syndrome.
This is her two games later in DW6:
And here she is in the most recent release, DW9:
She found her pants she lost along the way, but her armor is still MIA and is suffering from "every female character in this game must be gorgeous" syndrome.
Meanwhile, the goblin slayer defense force found a new old argument:
Accuse the critic.
The rape scenes are called fetishistic and sexualized? Clearly, the critic must be the evil one because they were aroused by them!
These dudes just can't seem to understand what "sexualized" even means, but they sure are convinced it makes criticism invalid. Anime fans gotta anime fan, I guess.
Accuse the critic.
The rape scenes are called fetishistic and sexualized? Clearly, the critic must be the evil one because they were aroused by them!
These dudes just can't seem to understand what "sexualized" even means, but they sure are convinced it makes criticism invalid. Anime fans gotta anime fan, I guess.
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