Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

[Weltall Zero]

"Just shows you how many men really, really love murder. As an idea, as a concept, and as something to consume."

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Sounds about right.

I'm sorry. I just can't agree with that. Rape is deemed illegal. Rape is usually frowned upon in most circles.

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Sure, the law deems "rape" illegal. The problem is that, worryingly often, rape is not deemed "rape" by society or judges. I mean, speaking of the latter, we're in a timeline where someone accused of sexual assault can get into the Supreme Court while the president laughs at the victims. Or have a lot at the "La Manada" case in Spain.

Anytime the victim is unconscious, or not dressed like a nun, or not fighting to the death against her assailant(s), society will find a way to blame her. And most often so will law, which is why so many of them will rather stay silent.

 

[HBK]

And most often so will law, which is why so many of them will rather stay silent.

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Not "law", the justice system.

And of course there's no denying we still live in a day ana age where victim shaming is a thing.

All I'm saying is that rape is part of the broader issue of women status in our societies. And while fighting against rape is of course a noble cause, making cases about "rape culture" seems to focus ultra specific aspects of women's rights when we should probably be fighting for a much broader base equality in the first place.

I mean the laws are there. In theory women are equal to men. Yet they're not in practice. And while stupid "pro-rape" fiction definitely doesn't help, fighting against such shit media seems more cathartic (which in itself can be argued to have positive effects, I agree) than efficient in the broader war for women equality.

Edit: I should also add that while I can't find proper statistics right now, it's a well known fact (despite what many politicians claim) that physical violence is now at an all time low. Hell actual rape (not reported rape) probably also is at an all time low. It's still too much (anything not zero will always be too much), but we live in some of the less violent societies in history (physical violence obviously, psychological violence is something else entirely).

 

[Kemono]

And lets be frank: I don't think it's mean to think badly of people that want sexualized rape depictions in media. There's one thing to have it as a plot element, and another to use it to titilate.

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It isn't mean imo. It's quite normal when you look deeper into the whole thing.

And it has nothing to do with titillation. Most of them don't get aroused when they see a sexy woman being raped by a monster. For them it's the enjoyment of seeing the "hero" getting denied what they think a hero is normaly "owed" in these kind of stories.

They see the hero and want to be like them. The hero is cool, goes on adventures, saves the day and gets the girl. That is what they think is the norm (toxic masculinity says hello). That's what they think the world should ideally be. Their world doesn't look like that at all most of the time.

So their deranged incel brain has made peace with them not ever "getting the girl" but what could be the next best thing? Fantasy (Animes, Manga, etc.) where the "Hero" is denied "what he's owed". That's most of the audience of the horrible NTR (man gets cheated on by his girlfriend/wife and is devastated to find out she likes it that way or can't help herself) genre. The pleasure comes from inserting themselves in the role of the man the woman is cheating her man with or simply feeling good about themselves because "see, women are cheating and not worth it" or "haha, you thought she loves you. Now you see how vile they really are".

Sexualised rape is just another filthy variation of that sad state of mind. They don't enjoy seeing the girl getting raped by a monster but revel in the destroyed hope/love/future of the hero. If they would self insert them into the shoes of the hero they would hate this stuff. But they're not going to get "their prize" anyway. So seeing another male not getting his either is the icing on the cake.

Then there's the whole utterly wrong thinking that the woman is not worth anything after this kind of rape (even if she survives) becasue she's not innocent anymore. Her purity is destroyed. Even they wouldn't want such a woman.

Sorry if i got sidetracked but as you've said. No, it's not mean to think badly of these fans. Almost none of them are "liking" this because the scene is important for the story. Something like this should never be accepted as normal. And that's not me kinkshaming anybody either. If you're getting off/feel good when others are hurt/destroyed/raped you need to talk to a shrink as soon as possible.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Not "law", the justice system.

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I was obviously referring to the justice system. It's a common enough synecdoche, although I guess using it to refer to police is a more common one.

The rest of your post seems intent to dillute the issue of rape and its systematic trivialization via tangential arguments that have little to do with the issue:
- Ignoring the blatant contemporary cases of rape and sexual assault dismissal by the higher ruling powers (you literally cut that part out from your reply).
- Denial (if not borderline ridicule) of the notion of rape culture.
- Referring to "broader issues", which adds little to the discussion except an "appeal to bigger problems" distraction.
- "We're better now than ever", which is particularly weird given you yourself admit you're pulling the figures for rape out of thin air / extrapolating from murder. But even if you weren't, this is as flawed an argument as handwaving racism by saying at least slavery is no longer legal.

 

[Ferrs]

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Although that's a case that happens its also true that a lot of people does infact get titilated by monsters rapind women. The amount of hentai in that style is a clear example. Hell in regular mangas like Berserk you have trolls fucking doggystyle random young pretty girls while they moan even though they're going to be killed, and they're not related to the hero, just nameless girls in a sexualized panel about rape.

 

[Veelk]

Hell actual rape (not reported rape) probably also is at an all time low.

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Wtf is "actual" rape as opposed to reported rape in thus context

 

[Kemono]

Although that's a case that happens its also true that a lot of people does infact get titilated by monsters rapind women. The amount of hentai in that style is a clear example. Hell in regular mangas like Berserk you have trolls fucking doggystyle random young pretty girls while they moan even though they're going to be killed, and they're not related to the hero, just nameless girls in a sexualized panel about rape.

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Maybe in the time before the internet but today? Any titillation you can ever want is a google search away.

 

[Deleted member 23212]

Wtf is "actual" rape as opposed to reported rape in thus context

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I guess Cristiano Ronaldo's definition of rape.

 

[JCG]

Maybe in the time before the internet but today? Any titillation you can ever want is a google search away.

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If Google has shown us anything, it is that people from all genders and orientations worldwide have online access to a countless number of variations of fetishes and overly specific niche scenarios in their choice of pornography, both filmed, drawn, and written. Non-consensual fantasies included.

I don't think there has been nearly enough actual scientific study in the field to fully understand both the social and individual ramifications as well as the structure of this phenomenon, so I found your longer post quite interesting as an attempt to explain one part of the picture, but it is difficult to generalize when the underlying data is so varied.

 

[esserius]

I'm sorry. I just can't agree with that. Rape is deemed illegal. Rape is usually frowned upon in most circles.

I could agree that it may not be seen as the society wide problem it actually is. But you can at least in theory go to jail for raping someone. Having some shit politicians and other people deflecting on a regular basis does not in any way mean that it's not perceived as a problem. Having a hard time convicting rapists only means our justice systems is skewed and is not there to apply actual justice but social oppression. Just look at how in most societies the prison population is hardly representative of the country population (lots of blacks in US prisons anyone?).

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Yep. So illegal. https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

I think you're deflecting that while this is an issue regarding equality in a generic sense, it is also an issue related to women in a sense related to body treatment. And body treatment is a change that is a result of shifting societal structures. The fear regarding these issues is constructed around denial of their occurrence at all, that the individual, male or female, is lying. It does not assume the truth of the victim, but the truth of the abuser.

Edit: I should also add that while I can't find proper statistics right now, it's a well known fact (despite what many politicians claim) that physical violence is now at an all time low. Hell actual rape (not reported rape) probably also is at an all time low. It's still too much (anything not zero will always be too much), but we live in some of the less violent societies in history (physical violence obviously, psychological violence is something else entirely).

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This is straight up wrong, at least in the United States: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191137/reported-forcible-rape-cases-in-the-usa-since-1990/

 

[Dary]

Can we not just agree that rape as entertainment is abhorrent, regardless of "statistics". Christ, the utter lack of empathy in this forum sometimes...

 

[esserius]

Can we not just agree that rape as entertainment is abhorrent, regardless of "statistics". Christ, the utter lack of empathy in this forum sometimes...

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It's abhorrent. Rape culture's normalization is abhorrent.

 

[HBK]

Too much to reply here. I'll try to keep it short.

- Ignoring the blatant contemporary cases of rape and sexual assault dismissal by the higher ruling powers (you literally cut that part out from your reply).

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I don't see what the latest Trump stupidity has to do with the fact that rape is considered a crime in our nations.

Of course all that mess with the latest Supreme Court nomination bullshit is an issue, and a scary one at that, but I don't see how that reinforces the concept of rape culture more than the simple fact that most if not all of our "rulers" are immoral (and either incompetents or with conflict of interest).

- Denial (if not borderline ridicule) of the notion of rape culture.

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Yes, I question the relevance of rape culture as a concept. I get what is conveyed with that (and find it appealing myself) but I still have issue when trying to integrate that with broader aspects such as "murder culture" when rape is infinitely more common than murder on our societies and we are surrounded by murder-fest fantasies. Of course I'm mostly talking about the media/fictional angle here.

- Referring to "broader issues", which adds little to the discussion except an "appeal to bigger problems" distraction.

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I see quite a bit of people getting triggered by the "rape culture" word and wonder if as such we may not need to adjust it ... or dismiss their reaction as those of uneducated bigots. As such I try to consider issues which may or may not be present within the concept.

- "We're better now than ever", which is particularly weird given you yourself admit you're pulling the figures for rape out of thin air / extrapolating from murder. But even if you weren't, this is as flawed an argument as handwaving racism by saying at least slavery is no longer legal.

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This was related to the "murder culture" comparison. We live surrounded by murder simulators in a way which has no precedence in history. Yet there are never been so few murders in our countries. As such I try to adjust my thoughts about how media may or may not influence criminal behavior on a larger scale.

Wtf is "actual" rape as opposed to reported rape in thus context

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We all know there are way more women raped than women who report it. I don't recall the exact numbers but most assessments are around a factor of 10 IIRC (meaning for 10 women raped only one reports it). As such it's very hard to assess evolution of rape (as in the number of crimes committed) over time.

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This is straight up wrong, at least in the United States: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191137/reported-forcible-rape-cases-in-the-usa-since-1990/

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If I read those right, violent crime is indeed decreasing. That increase in reported rape from 2013 is worrying but again those numbers are hard to assess due to how the report rate of rape is low and it may simply mean a liberation of speech and an increase in reporting. Without further study it's hard to confirm if we face an increase in actual rape.

 

[esserius]

Edit:
If I read those right, violent crime is indeed decreasing. That increase in reported rape from 2013 is worrying but again those numbers are hard to assess due to how the report rate of rape is low and it may simply mean a liberation of speech and an increase in reporting. Without further study it's hard to tell.

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Oh for fuck's sake. Are you for real?

 

[HBK]

Oh for fuck's sake. Are you for real?

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I am, but do not understand what you mean here. I am reading those graphs wrong?

 

[Veelk]

We all know there are way more women raped than women who report it. I don't recall the exact numbers but most assessments are around a factor of 10 IIRC (meaning for 10 women raped only one reports it). As such it's very hard to assess evolution of rape (as in the number of crimes committed) over time.

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Then on what basis are you claiming that actual rape is at an all time low? Has there been a decrease in reported rape or something? Because I think it'd be the opposite in the age of #metoo

Edit: and you yourself admit there is an increase in rape reports. So the instance of reported rape has gone up, but actual rape has gone down?

 

[Rayman not Ray]

Of course all that mess with the latest Supreme Court nomination bullshit is an issue, and a scary one at that, but I don't see how that reinforces the concept of rape culture more than the simple fact that most if not all of our "rulers" are immoral (and either incompetents or with conflict of interest).

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There's a lot to respond to in your post, but I wanted to zero in on this point, because it's a common one. Saying our "rulers" are immoral is deflection, because politicians are people and people often act immorally. I don't buy at all that their behavior is any worse than loads of other people. They just wield a lot more power.

And for rape culture, specifically, if you ask a man on the street if rape is bad, they'll say yes. But if you put a man who ostensibly believes rape is bad in a frat environment, for example, you'll see some very different behavior. Not necessarily that he himself will commit sexual assault, but he won't stop it, and hell help foster the environment that encourages it. Because this is environment is the same that fosters male bonding, and hey, he doesn't want to stop the bros from being bros.

 

[esserius]

I am, but do not understand what you mean here. I am reading those graphs wrong?

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As Rayman said, what you post reads as deflection of events that are straight up horrific. It's not "hard to tell" that these are events that are under-reported. That has been known for a very long time. This reads as denial of the events (and, well, statistics) to fit your narrative that violence against women is decreasing.

 

[HBK]

Then on what basis are you claiming that actual rape is at an all time low?

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None specifically. Feel free to disprove me if you have numbers.

Has there been a decrease in reported rape or something? Because I think it'd be the opposite in the age of #metoo

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That's kind of my point. I'd like to think that if we see an increase in reported rape it'll be because more crimes are reported even though their actual number decrease.

Call me an optimist I guess?

There's a lot to respond to in your post, but I wanted to zero in on this point, because it's a common one. Saying our "rulers" are immoral is deflection, because politicians are people and people often act immorally. I don't buy at all that their behavior is any worse than loads of other people. They just wield a lot more power.

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That's a topic for another thread I guess. I see what you mean. My belief is that we should deploy institutions which encourage virtuous behavior so that the actual morality of the people within it won't be as relevant as they are now (it can easily be argued that our current institutions actually encourage immoral behavior).

And for rape culture, specifically, if you ask a man on the street if rape is bad, they'll say yes. But if you put a man who ostensibly believes rape is bad in a frat environment, for example, you'll see some very different behavior. Not necessarily that he himself will commit sexual assault, but he won't stop it, and hell help foster the environment that encourages it. Because this is environment is the same that fosters male bonding, and hey, he doesn't want to stop the bros from being bros.

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There's a lot of assumptions is this paragraph. There are many instances where group behavior produces criminal results. It's the first answer that comes to my mind and I doubt it's something specific to rape.

 

[HBK]

As Rayman said, what you post reads as deflection of events that are straight up horrific. It's not "hard to tell" that these are events that are under-reported, that has been known for a very long time. This reads as denial of the events (and, well, statistics) to fit your narrative that violence against women is decreasing.

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I must have expressed myself very badly because that's not what I meant at all. There are a number of institutes and associations which try to assess actual rape numbers (which are of course way higher than those reported). I should look for them but only ever read french ones.

Edit: Crap, double post. Time to take a break.

 

[esserius]

I must have expressed myself very badly because that's not what I meant at all. There are a number of institutes and associations which try to asses the actual rape numbers (which are of course way higher than those reported). I should look for them but only ever read french ones.

Edit: Crap, double post. Time to take a break.

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You need to provide those before you start making statements about this in the future. Everything you've posted about this reads as hearsay and flies in the face of current evidence.

 

[Veelk]

None specifically. Feel free to disprove me if you have numbers.

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Are you aware of the concept of 'burden of proof'?

That's kind of my point. I'd like to think that if we see an increase in reported rape it'll be because more crimes are reported even though their actual number decrease.

Call me an optimist I guess?

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That... Is not what I'd call you for using that reasoning. What your describing makes zero sense and has no support, by your own admission.

 

[NimbusCub]

"men are sexualised too" call me when we get dick physics in video games, then we'll talk about male sexualisation.

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Well, RDR2 has ball physics. Does that work? /s

In all seriousness, is a huge issue. It's become a much larger problem as more options have presented themselves for "titilation" and it's become more normalized.

I'd love a dedicated awareness day where devs reverse the roles and patch male protagonists into scantily clad armor to draw attention to just how ridiculous these designs are.

 

[HBK]

You need to provide those before you start making statements about this in the future. Everything you've posted about this reads as hearsay and flies in the face of current evidence.

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Finding those is harder than I thought. All I can find are assessments of a 12% report rate and an increase in reported rape in recent years. But those numbers concern France only.

Please dismiss that part, I thought I made it clear that it was a tales-from-my-ass assessment. Reported rape is increasing since 2012~2013.

Edit:

Are you aware of the concept of 'burden of proof'?

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I am. Please see my answer above.

That... Is not what I'd call you for using that reasoning. What your describing makes zero sense and has no support, by your own admission.

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The numbers that fly around here in France are those of around 10% report rate. As in ONE OUT OF TEN. That leaves a lot of margin for improvement.

I'll gladly admit that I can't prove it, but I don't see how that reasoning can't be made from an optimistic standpoint.

 

[Mesoian]

So I've read all of Goblin Slayer, because that manga is pretty good when you picture the MC with master chief's voice. Him not having master chief's voice is probably going to be the thing that kills the anime for me.

But as for why rape is a bad thing (which is an insane thing to type); The problem isn't that there's rape in the book. Plenty of more important works have used rape and debasement as a vehicle for characterization of world building. Unfortunate as it may be, rape is a commonality in our society and our art reflects that fact. The problem is that in Goblin Slayer, the rape scenes are basically just glorified hentai scenes. They do nothing to show the actual plight of the characters, they do nothing to show how it affects the world and the people around them, it does not use the vehicle of rape for any meaningful purpose. It uses rape as a method to sexual stimulate the reader and nothing else. That's a problem. It's a problem here, it's a problem in Ikkotusen, it's a problem in Tenjo Tenge, a lot of Japanese artists don't understand or care to understand the divergence between consensual sex and rape. All of these books cast rape as, "no big deal" because it happens all the time to narratively unimportant characters and the people doing it are generally fodder for the heroes to slaughter. The women in these books aren't important enough to even characterize, they're just there to show that this group of people "are bad", but at the same time are also supposed to give the reader raging erections (emphasis on erections, none of these scenes were made with any consideration for women). With Goblin Slayer specifically, they leave the development of how the rape and murder of the MC's important female characters warps his mind to side stories, completely separate books, that likely won't be in the anime at all.

The rape in Goblin Slayer is purely there to get men off, and that's gross. It's a huge problem and the rape scenes provide nothing to an otherwise fine book. These scenes are only there because the mangaka thought they were neat and wanted to draw women being raped, and the fact that people's first response towards it is, "this is great" is the real reflection of the anime fanbase.

Goblin Slayer is gonna do really well in all it's various forms. That being said, I think the ratio for rape scenes in chapter is 1:4 right now. 1 rape scene for every 4 chapters on average, if I remember correctly.

Stanning for Golbin Slayer is a BAD LOOK.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I don't see what the latest Trump stupidity has to do with the fact that rape is considered a crime in our nations.

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If you can't see how Trump and the Supreme Court not giving a shit about sexual assault is reflective of how rape and sexual assault is systematically downplayed and trivialized in modern society, then I pretty much literally don't know what to tell you, so carry on I guess.

 

[Veelk]

I am. Please see my answer above.

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Then you should be aware that you can't ask someone to disprove a claim you can't prove in the first place.

The numbers that fly around here in France are those of around 10% report rate. As in ONE OUT OF TEN. That leaves a lot of margin for improvement.

I'll gladly admit that I can't prove it, but I don't see how that reasoning can't be made from an optimistic standpoint.

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Because even optimism requires some kind of basis for believing it is what's happening. All you saying here is "wouldn't it be nice if the problem we have were less of a problem" without having any reason to believe it's so.

A lot of things would nice to have. It'd be nice if global warming actually wasn't a major problem future generations will have to deal with. It'd be nice if Republicans were on the precipice of regaining their souls and impeaching Trump and Kavanagh It'd be nice if Twitter ceo would just crack down on alt right fascist trolls on his platform.

But believing these things will happen just because it'd be nice if they did isn't optimism.

 

[HBK]

Because even optimism requires some kind of basis for believing it is what's happening. All you saying here is "wouldn't it be nice if the problem we have were less of a problem" without having any reason to believe it's so.

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It's a well known fact that reported rape is way lower than effectively committed rape. Thus an increase of reported rape can be caused by an increase of committed rape, an increase in reporting rate, or any combination of the two. Yes, it could also be that there is a dramatic increase in committed rape and that the reported rate has crumbled.

It was not my intent to minimize that issue. I understand this is a touchy subject and as such people can overreact but I fail to see what should warrant such harsh answers in my statements.

What was entailed with my reaction to you was asking for numbers if you knew a potential source which could, yes, potentially disprove what I was saying.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

On a related note, I thought Quiet's torture scene in MGV was rubbish, in that the scene can be summed up as the creator's idea of 'what a great pair of tits being zapped'. Her face covered because, of course, neither the director or the viewer wants to look at the only signifier that the woman isn't enjoying being naked, tied up and tortured while being ogled by the camera. If the plot required it to be a bloke getting zapped, somehow I get the feeling it wouldn't be shot as 'how weirdly sexy is this!'.

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It definitely wouldn't be. There's such a difference in how genders are treated in such scenes, and it's wild how many people just go "no, no, all fine, it has to be that way for the story, there's no possible other possibility to have a plot or scene".

And Quiet... just, the whole character is a mess, from Kojimas insistence to defend her design in that particular way to the way the camera goes in her scenes.

So their deranged incel brain has made peace with them not ever "getting the girl" but what could be the next best thing? Fantasy (Animes, Manga, etc.) where the "Hero" is denied "what he's owed". That's most of the audience of the horrible NTR (man gets cheated on by his girlfriend/wife and is devastated to find out she likes it that way or can't help herself) genre. The pleasure comes from inserting themselves in the role of the man the woman is cheating her man with or simply feeling good about themselves because "see, women are cheating and not worth it" or "haha, you thought she loves you. Now you see how vile they really are".

Sorry if i got sidetracked but as you've said. No, it's not mean to think badly of these fans. Almost none of them are "liking" this because the scene is important for the story. Something like this should never be accepted as normal. And that's not me kinkshaming anybody either. If you're getting off/feel good when others are hurt/destroyed/raped you need to talk to a shrink as soon as possible.

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I think you made really good points. The defenses of Goblin Slayer going on right now (including attacks on Crunchyrolls choice to put warnings to the anime, which is apparently HORRIBLE and SPOILER, because THAT is what matters) made me a bit cranky and focus on a particular thing, but there's more to unpack with this thing than "just" the overall rape itself.

 

[caff!!!]

I was watching the Blast Corps GDQ run again, and noticed that the lead designer for the game talked about making the game's characters inclusive as something important to do, which does show in the game.

 

[Deleted member 5535]

So I've read all of Goblin Slayer, because that manga is pretty good when you picture the MC with master chief's voice. Him not having master chief's voice is probably going to be the thing that kills the anime for me.

But as for why rape is a bad thing (which is an insane thing to type); The problem isn't that there's rape in the book. Plenty of more important works have used rape and debasement as a vehicle for characterization of world building. Unfortunate as it may be, rape is a commonality in our society and our art reflects that fact. The problem is that in Goblin Slayer, the rape scenes are basically just glorified hentai scenes. They do nothing to show the actual plight of the characters, they do nothing to show how it affects the world and the people around them, it does not use the vehicle of rape for any meaningful purpose. It uses rape as a method to sexual stimulate the reader and nothing else. That's a problem. It's a problem here, it's a problem in Ikkotusen, it's a problem in Tenjo Tenge, a lot of Japanese artists don't understand or care to understand the divergence between consensual sex and rape. All of these books cast rape as, "no big deal" because it happens all the time to narratively unimportant characters and the people doing it are generally fodder for the heroes to slaughter. The women in these books aren't important enough to even characterize, they're just there to show that this group of people "are bad", but at the same time are also supposed to give the reader raging erections (emphasis on erections, none of these scenes were made with any consideration for women). With Goblin Slayer specifically, they leave the development of how the rape and murder of the MC's important female characters warps his mind to side stories, completely separate books, that likely won't be in the anime at all.

The rape in Goblin Slayer is purely there to get men off, and that's gross. It's a huge problem and the rape scenes provide nothing to an otherwise fine book. These scenes are only there because the mangaka thought they were neat and wanted to draw women being raped, and the fact that people's first response towards it is, "this is great" is the real reflection of the anime fanbase.

Goblin Slayer is gonna do really well in all it's various forms. That being said, I think the ratio for rape scenes in chapter is 1:4 right now. 1 rape scene for every 4 chapters on average, if I remember correctly.

Stanning for Golbin Slayer is a BAD LOOK.

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To be fair, the manga scenes are pretty different and more frequent than what is described on the Light Novels from what I heard. And the manga much like the anime, is a adaptation, not the original source, so there's that on that front.

And as far as doing well, Goblin Slayer is already doing it before the anime both in it's Light Novel and the manga adaptation. As example for the week before the anime got out with the manga sales:
*4. *78,044 *,*78,044 Goblin Slayer Vol.5 - Square Enix
*8. *54,779 *,*54,779 Goblin Slayer Gaiden: Year One Vol.2 - Square Enix
12. *42,547 *,*42,547 Goblin Slayer: Brand New Day Vol.1 - Square Enix

 

[Daouzin]

To be fair, the manga scenes are pretty different and more frequent than what is described on the Light Novels from what I heard. And the manga much like the anime, is a adaptation, not the original source, so there's that on that front.

And as far as doing well, Goblin Slayer is already doing it before the anime both in it's Light Novel and the manga adaptation. As example for the week before the anime got out with the manga sales:
*4. *78,044 *,*78,044 Goblin Slayer Vol.5 - Square Enix
*8. *54,779 *,*54,779 Goblin Slayer Gaiden: Year One Vol.2 - Square Enix
12. *42,547 *,*42,547 Goblin Slayer: Brand New Day Vol.1 - Square Enix

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Your posts keep leaving me puzzled. Why the sales numbers? Your approach to listing sales numbers in previous posts also puzzles me. Not sure what you objective is, but it feels gross and unsettling. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there's a rhyme or reason to it just not sure what that is.

 

[SchrodingerC]

Slightly OT, but what's a woman's perspective on the berserk manga?

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Although I find the sexual violence and racial aspects sometimes to be over the top and rather exploitive, especially in the earlier arcs , Berserk is solidity in my top 3 favorite manga's ever. The world Miura has crafted is just engrossing, both in terms of writing and art. Of course it irked me Casca was reduced to a helpless potato for decades(though for a 'good' reason), but I'm glad Miura isn't taking the easy way out and having Casca fully recovered from a frankly soul shattering event. The fact he's clearly taking his time on how to depict this recovery is appreciated, even though it hurts to see Guts and Casca being unable to fully reunite again ;_;

 

[Deleted member 888]

Whether I always agree with everyone in here or not, one area I'll stand by anyone is going after what is essentially "Molestation Mode" in a game with underage characters. The defence forces for this on here and NeoGAF shows just how creepy this userbase we've been lumping around for a while really is

But please! This is actually an elderly woman! We need to molest her for... plot!

Cropped username/don't link here, but here is a legit defence from the site we used to use

I'll let everyone with a brain deconstruct how fucking ridiculous that comparison is given what the two games are.

Might as well be going full circle above and claiming it's gay people's fault Priests molest children. Hey, this game that properly/appropriately handles two teenagers first show of love/affection is the real reason I sit at home as an adult man and want to molest underage girls in a hyper-sexualized way in a video game.

To the PC I go!

 

[Deleted member 888]

Okay, this is an employee/public figure, but for Era's mods sake I at least blurred the username of the poster he is replying to

And we wonder why we have issues in games with children/minors?

As for why I'm highlighting an old Tom post, he appears to be doing defence force online against his own employer, XSEED, over this PS4 change. It also gives you an idea of how XSEED thinks, even if they are obeying Sony here.





"I don't believe changing the ages would make any difference".

Yes, it fucking would. Many in this topic and in the world would still criticise sexualization of women, fair enough (especially if it's a molestation/harassment game mode), but literally arguing "children are just the same bro", the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[Weltall Zero]

It was not my intent to minimize that issue. I understand this is a touchy subject and as such people can overreact but I fail to see what should warrant such harsh answers in my statements.

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Again, if you don't understand why a man telling women "Hey, from these rape statistics I'm pulling out of my ass (sorry, my "optimism"), I'm sure things aren't that bad now and you're exaggerating! "Rape culture" is a lie!" might cause said women to tell you to fuck right off, I don't know what to tell you. This goes far beyond mansplaining and straight into manmakingshitup, let alone showing a world class level of disregard for the issue (you won't take five minutes to do basic research before spouting nonsense) and utter lack of empathy or even basic inclination to listening to women.

You've demonstrated an incredible lack of self-awareness in this thread (and I mean unbelievable), so I'm not hopeful that the above will open your eyes in any way. But in more general terms, if women in a thread about sexualization are telling you're showing your ass, perhaps it's high time to question what you're doing here, realize your own ignorance, and educate yourself before posting?

 

[HBK]

Again, if you don't understand why a man telling women "Hey, from these rape statistics I'm pulling out of my ass (sorry, my "optimism"), I'm sure things aren't that bad now and you're exaggerating! "Rape culture" is a lie!" might cause said women to tell you to fuck right off, I don't know what to tell you. This goes far beyond mansplaining and straight into manmakingshitup, let alone showing a world class level of disregard for the issue (you won't take five minutes to do basic research before spouting nonsense) and utter lack of empathy or even basic inclination to listening to women.

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You're putting words into my mouth up to the point where it feels like you're trying to strawman me. But I won't answer to that. It seems my words have been hurtful, and as such I apologize.

I will only add this: I actually appreciate people disproving my points, but understand ad-hominems hardly make for interesting discussions.

That being said, I hope you will accept my apologies.

 

[SocrateGirl]

Slightly OT, but what's a woman's perspective on the berserk manga?

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The golden age arc is very good, but the way women are portrayed is old-school. Weak, rape scenes folder etc. After the golden arc, the manga take a nosedive in quality when it comes to writing and pacing.

 

[ShyMel]

As for why I'm highlighting an old Tom post, he appears to be doing defence force online against his own employer, XSEED, over this PS4 change. It also gives you an idea of how XSEED thinks, even if they are obeying Sony here.

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Tom is also the employee who got upset about an issue in Akiba's Beat. He is very much on his own on certain issues, even when the original developers change something they did not realize was offensive.

 

[Syril]

I saw this article from Mark Brown of the Game Maker's Toolkit videos criticizing the reboot Tomb Raider games' special death scenes.

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2018/10/11/17961496/tomb-raider-death-animations

He was comparing them to the game overs in other games like Metal Great Solid, Souls, or Batman Arkham, but I was curious how they compared to Resident Evil 4, which was also known for having special death scenes. One of the things I noticed really quickly after watching part of an RE4 death montage is that the camera is never focusing on Leon's face as he is killed. The only one I saw that focused on his face, where his face was melted by acid, only showed his face after everything was over, and the most protracted death scene, where he is impaled in the face with a giant claw, lifted up, and stabbed in the chest with another claw, specifically keeps his face out of frame when it cuts to a different view. The ones where he's beheaded are all very quick and almost immediately cut to the You Are Dead screen, and a lot of them don't even show much of anything.

Conversely, while while a lot of the special death in Tomb Raider are very quick like in RE4, I noticed a lot of them go out of their way to show a clear view of Lara's face as she's dying, with the most flagrant one I saw being one where's she's killed and strung up with an upside down perspective where the camera then flips right side up and circles around so you can see her face as a villain slits her throat. I know this game's use of suffering and trauma as motivators for character growth have already seen heavy criticism (and was the #1 turnoff for me when I tried to play it), but I was surprised to see such a difference compared to an actual horror game. I was wondering if anyone in here noticed that too and what they thought about it.

 

[Dary]

That Gaiman quote gets thrown around almost as much as the "but what about the violence?" argument...

Conversely, while while a lot of the special death in Tomb Raider are very quick like in RE4, I noticed a lot of them go out of their way to show a clear view of Lara's face as she's dying, with the most flagrant one I saw being one where's she's killed and strung up with an upside down perspective where the camera then flips right side up and circles around so you can see her face as a villain slits her throat. I know this game's use of suffering and trauma as motivators for character growth have already seen heavy criticism (and was the #1 turnoff for me when I tried to play it), but I was surprised to see such a difference compared to an actual horror game. I was wondering if anyone in here noticed that too and what they thought about it.

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What the fuck happened to "female Indiana Jones explores ancient tombs"?

 

[Kinsei]

The "They're not real children" defense rings especially hollow to me these days when you look at the support a pedophile that draws hentai of real children gets.

 

[Mr. X]

Okay, this is an employee/public figure, but for Era's mods sake I at least blurred the username of the poster he is replying to

And we wonder why we have issues in games with children/minors?

As for why I'm highlighting an old Tom post, he appears to be doing defence force online against his own employer, XSEED, over this PS4 change. It also gives you an idea of how XSEED thinks, even if they are obeying Sony here.





"I don't believe changing the ages would make any difference".

Yes, it fucking would. Many in this topic and in the world would still criticise sexualization of women, fair enough (especially if it's a molestation/harassment game mode), but literally arguing "children are just the same bro", the fuck is wrong with you?

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I wonder, if the creator has weird child porn shit on his hdd, would they be defending it still?

 

[Deleted member 401]

"I don't believe changing the ages would make any difference".

Yes, it fucking would. Many in this topic and in the world would still criticise sexualization of women, fair enough (especially if it's a molestation/harassment game mode), but literally arguing "children are just the same bro", the fuck is wrong with you?

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I don't know. To me, changing the age of the character to being 18 or older seems like a concession to people who get horny for the underage character. That is its own brand of gross, changing a number but literally nothing else to make it seem "okay" to fap to a character who was intended to be a minor.

 

[Deleted member 888]

The "They're not real children" defense rings especially hollow to me these days when you look at the support a pedophile that draws hentai of real children gets.

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There's a reason when dealing with paedophiles zero tolerance is the bottom line, so much so even a painting of boy that seems suggestive is deemed potentially a risk (from the documentary below).

Tom and others should potentially spend 1 hour watching this before going on public record to shout about how about "little girls in fiction aren't real!"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Place_for_Paedophiles

So we go from a suggestive painting to the video game world, straight up molesting if not hitting on underage characters being defended and accepted by many.

Honestly, you should be really looking at yourself in the mirror if you not only enjoy but go out of your way to defend underage minors being sexualized in the ways some games do. Miss me with that TLoU having an actual romance/love plot line is the same as some JRPG spreading the legs of a 14-15 year old in a skimpy outfit.

I don't know. To me, changing the age of the character to being 18 or older seems like a concession to people who get horny for the underage character. That is its own brand of gross, changing a number but literally nothing else to make it seem "okay" to fap to a character who was intended to be a minor.

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I don't just mean changing the age in text. That's how some games try to get around this. They say a character is 18 and then the depiction is like a 12 year old. Cue the 9000 year old dragon meme.

I'm saying the character of age and depicted as so, is at least a baseline of not being underage/paedophilia. As I said in my posts from there many will obviously still criticise a game that has a harassment mini game in it, even with of age characters.

But to imply as Tom and others did that there is no point in reaching that baseline (or it wouldn't change anything) because its the same thing is outrageous and completely morally bankrupt with some examples. Such as this "intimacy mode" with underage characters.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Okay, this is an employee/public figure, but for Era's mods sake I at least blurred the username of the poster he is replying to

And we wonder why we have issues in games with children/minors?

As for why I'm highlighting an old Tom post, he appears to be doing defence force online against his own employer, XSEED, over this PS4 change. It also gives you an idea of how XSEED thinks, even if they are obeying Sony here.





"I don't believe changing the ages would make any difference".

Yes, it fucking would. Many in this topic and in the world would still criticise sexualization of women, fair enough (especially if it's a molestation/harassment game mode), but literally arguing "children are just the same bro", the fuck is wrong with you?

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The thing is, they already do change the age of the characters here in the West (or at least they did when the series was still on Vita). Changing the ages does literally nothing in this regard, as you can still clearly tell most of the characters are underage. Now if you mean changing their designs to match that age change, then ya that would probably change things.

 

[Deleted member 29682]

Now if you mean changing their designs to match that age change, then ya that would probably change things.

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Shame this usually results in excuses in the vein of "It's the artstyle, everyone in the setting looks young." or "What do you mean? They look like adults to me."

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Shame this usually results in excuses in the vein of "It's the artstyle, everyone in the setting looks young." or "What do you mean? They look like adults to me."

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What's sad is that they do actually have characters in the series that are older and actually look like they aren't still in middle/high school, those characters are ofcourse some of the least popular among the fanbase. Changing all the designs at this point in the series life to make them all appear older would probably neuter the fanbase.

 

[Choppasmith]

Okay, this is an employee/public figure, but for Era's mods sake I at least blurred the username of the poster he is replying to

And we wonder why we have issues in games with children/minors?

As for why I'm highlighting an old Tom post, he appears to be doing defence force online against his own employer, XSEED, over this PS4 change. It also gives you an idea of how XSEED thinks, even if they are obeying Sony here.





"I don't believe changing the ages would make any difference".

Yes, it fucking would. Many in this topic and in the world would still criticise sexualization of women, fair enough (especially if it's a molestation/harassment game mode), but literally arguing "children are just the same bro", the fuck is wrong with you?

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Speaking of terrible strawman arguments, we had this gem in OT recently

That's not how feminism on ResetEra works. Feminism here is women dressed in androgynous potato sacks.

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Yep pack it up, we've been figured out!

 

[JCG]

Shame this usually results in excuses in the vein of "It's the artstyle, everyone in the setting looks young." or "What do you mean? They look like adults to me."

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One of the few cases were that type of argument would possibly work is that of something like the original Saint Seiya anime, because the main cast of characters (mostly male plus a couple of female ones) were drawn in a style that made them look like young adults yet their official ages were supposed to be lower than that, but this is clearly qualitatively different and the show was not created for the purpose of sexualization. It is still a world apart from the whole Senran Kagura situation.