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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Never had an account, but damn if I didn't lurk. Wild times.
Real women have agency.
Fictional women don't.
There's your answer.
(Also, stop with the obnoxiously enlarged font. Your posts are not any more important than anyone else's.)
I meant they all wear pretty much the same thing, which is weird superhero spandex outfits.
I also never understood cammys gauntlets, the elbow has a lid cover? Is it metal or rubber?
You don't understand, if I can't see cleavage, than it must be a guy!
/s
I need to look through the previous thread and see what was discussed about a certain protagonist out of Xenoblade 2. I know the topic of Pyra came up and how a few people in there were discussing that if she and Rex were to get into Smash Bros if she would see some redesign. After all, a few other ladies had a few changes to their model and it wasn't really all too drastic. Even Bayonetta had a few small changes to her where her outfit didn't stand out too much, but still allowed her to be who she is.
I will say that the parts I did read through the firs thread was very fasinating and I can't wait to see how the conversation continues onward.
I will say that the parts I did read through the firs thread was very fasinating and I can't wait to see how the conversation continues onward.
WHAT YOU THINK!?!?
No, I'm fucking with you.
Cosplay is a little different because for 95% of people who do it, they do it out of love for the character. And mind you, it's okay if you like asexualized design, there are some that I particularly like. The trouble is when said sexualization is the norm. Now that being said, if someone identifies with an outfit and decides to cosplay from it, that's wonderful. More power to them. I was in the cosplay circuit for years and I've seen it all and the people who enjoyed it the most where the people who didn't care what other people would say when they were willingly and gleefully parading themselves in their outfits.
Now I will say, I have talked a lot of women who find it challenging to find characters they want to cosplay as because so many female leads, pro or antagonist, are default bombshell body types, which leads them to not feeling comfortable with how they'd look in such an outfit. If you had a curvy body type, It was really challenging to find something that matched without having to say "well fuck it, I'm gonna do it anyway because I love this character". I'd say it's only recently that more body types have been represented and that's a really good thing.
For me personally, the problem was that I was both too black and not black enough in the eyes of the masses to cosplay who I wanted to, and it took a lot of self-reflection and the help of good friends to gain the courage to just go "Fuck it, let's go. I wanna cosplay Luffy? I'm gonna cosplay Luffy and anyone who has a problem with it can catch these hands". But it was tough when people were like, "you should cosplay bob from Tenjo Tenge" because he was the only black character they could think of in anime. Time passed, black people got a lot more representation in anime and I had alot more choice and I didn't feel immediately alienated anymore.
And that's important. The inclusion for people, because in fandoms, cosplay especially, you really can feel like you don't belong if every character out there is just this weird sexual fantasy.
Also, and most important, the designs that you're pointing out are great as COSTUMES for a party. They're not great as outfits that a person would wear into battle when they're trying to defend/conquer their respective nations. Most of the xenoblade 2 outfits are stuff i'd expect to see at a high end Beach Club, not on the priaries of battle.
6 pages in and already banned trolls :/ Those ex-members don't realize how they are demonstrating the necessity of this thread.
Fanservice in the 90's was very predominant but seemed to be completely different. It was more actualy nudity scenes (shower, public bath, actual intimacy and the occasional accidental nudity) than ridiculous outfits and physiques onscreen all the time. As an European I found occassional nudity in Ranma, Dragon Ball, Tenchi Muyo, Akira, etc. far easier to stomach than the the vomit-inducing designs of today, especially when it made sense in-story.
Xenogears pretty much followed that trend, with a few nudity scenes that mostly made sense (and in some cases, involved the male main character as well): a shower, a couple implied sex scenes played for character development (something pretty much never, ever happens anymore in anime and manga; it's either all fanservice but no sex ever, or directly hentai), and the astral world right at the end.
In the end it seems to also be related to how much a work respects itself as "art". Xenogears seemed to be reaching for something far more ambitious than Xenoblade 2, and conversely a lot of anime back then (perhaps further back, I'm thinking of stuff like early Gundam) seemed to be aiming for something a bit more cerebral than it does now.
Same! When I saw you drop the name my brain instantly went "Piece of LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVEEE kanaiyaku toki mo"
Look I'm just saying Gackt belongs with Hyde and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong and stupid.
Yeah, it's a pretty wholesome show! The whole first season basically revolves around two boys having a rivarly and their friends trying to get everyone to be friends again.
I might have said that. I remember guys losing their shit when Free was only a short PV for testing the waters (yuk yuk yuk).
I'm not OP but I love cosplay. I have cosplayed before and probably will again. I mean, I'm not gonna run around in a thong in public but if another girl wants to do that cool for them.
Idiots like these have existed for a long time. It's obvious that Gundam Seed sells the Kira/Athrun ship quite hard and I don't get why anyone should care that it does.
If it brings more people into watching Gundam I'm all for it.
Yes, that's true, but at the same time, presumably it's because she just had sex. Like, is it for the male gaze, sure. But context is key here. To me, that image says "oh you're still here?" Which...again...never seen in a video game ever. It's a biproduct of potentially (underscored potentially because we don't know and won't know for...2 years...) exploring a sexual relationship in a game, WHICH NEEDS TO HAPPEN WAY FUCKING MORE.
All that being said, I'm just guessing because who knows, and I expect a lot of uncontextualized sexualization to happen in this game, if only for the trailer moments.
I mean, remember Vandread?
There are days where I feel like I'm the only one who remembers Vandread.
1. Guys tend to pick photos of women they think are sexy. The cons I have been to had a mix of all sorts of costumes, from modest to sexy. This oddly isn't reflected much in cosplay galleries, almost as if there's some choice bias there ;)
2. Real women are not characters created for entertainment, and are not subject of such criticism. Some women like to dress sexy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
3. A convention is not a warzone, nor an icy wasteland
(Secret 4. If one wants to cosplay, the choices for non-sexy are usually more slim than those for sexy, and if one likes a character that wears sexy, why not cosplay as one?)
Laughed so hard at the title. Perfection.
2) If you are not interested in actually discussing the topic, then don't post in it. No one is interested in meta-commentary and backseat moderation is not allowed.
Not sure what you mean, then... but female power fantasies with pre-set characters (not using a character creator) I can think of from recent games, would be Aloy (Horizon Zero Dawn), Emily (Dishonored 2), Billie Lurk (Dishonored: Death of the Outsider).
I liked her design a lot. She is beautiful without being exaggerated or objectified, she has a mature and dignified beautyHow do you feel aboutfrom God of War portrayal?Freya
I thought it was kind of refreshing in design and character. The game goes into great lengths toIt's a game about cycles and to a degree, maybe even a large one, you can argue her as a tragic feminist icon in gaming. She wasshow the similarity between her and her son vs kratos and his.Yet she maintains dignity, is still powerful in her own right and a mother.horrifically violated by Odin. Her own son turned against her.
and her being a goddess wasn't an excuse to make her tits fall out of her clothes, so that was nice.
This sorta already exists... xD
Underrated post~
It did not. Xenogears had nudity, and even sex, and it fit the story. Funny that.
Yep. A thread doesn't reach 200+ pages of people just constantly agreeing with each other. There's been a ton of discussion and nuance.
1) This is not true, see above.
2) If you are not interested in actually discussing the topic, then don't post in it. No one is interested in meta-commentary and backseat moderation is not allowed.
I think this is accurate. When Takahashi said XB2 would be "A young adult story with a taste of boy-meets-girl" I pretty much knew what the game would be. Its awful designs and mini harem make sense in that context. What a bummer.
Ready Op , on that part where op tells you they are not real etc etc etc
I wonder how many of these blokes calling us puritans have written and illustrated Sephiroth/Kuja yaoi...
I actually got my boyfriend into the show and we watch it and Steins;Gate 0 together. He enjoys the character interactions in Free! much more than when I got him to watch the first UtaPri season with me.
Pretty sad considering at least the gifs linked above are really tame and don't make me feel unconfortable at all (whereas other sexualized dudes do). Goes to show how incredibly fragile and hypocritical anime fans have become. :(
I remember that the premise sounded great when I read about it, but I watched the first episode and I dropped it... precisely because of the female sexualization and other anime tropes. :D
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I wonder how many of these blokes calling us puritans have written and illustrated Sephiroth/Kuja yaoi...
Hmph, no love for the Cloud/Squall ships? I feel betrayed.
TWO Silver haired Semes? That, good sir or madam, is blasphemy! (and it's hot)
I wonder how many of these blokes calling us puritans have written and illustrated Sephiroth/Kuja yaoi...
Also I illustrated Clack and SephVincent doujins for the record of accuracy
I do not understand it though especially as you all said it was the same designer. I must admit it was really annoying in XB 2. Especially when it is right in your face all the time. I want to start Xenosaga soon, starting with the first one. Is the Xenoblade series very popular outside Japan? How is the whole sexy anime stuff received?
My my ! How can you resist it ?
Mama mia ! Does these Xenoblade designs show skin again
My my, just how much I've missed criticising it?
It's real fanservicy. It's just odd because I remember a bunch of shows like that while games stayed fairly away from it, until the PS2 era.
Maybe it was just the premise of low poly boobs that scared people off.
Actually, Cloud belongs with Vincent, for the vampire hijinks.
Keep in mind that a designer does not design in a vacuum, they design for a target audience and for management demands. If management wants X, or the focus groups tell them that they need to add more gacha or more waifus, a designer might add that even if they wouldn't have done so normally.
Note that the whole waifu gacha thing xenoblade 2 did is a current trend in mobile games in Japan, it probably was added by committee, much like XP and crafting systems get added to every western game. The waifu gacha requires them to have different tiers, the best ones usually being much sexier, so you kinda arrive at Xenoblade automatically if you're trying to chase that particular trend.
I swear I've seen this EXACT comment before no less. Hoo boy. XD
Especially terrifying, more than the celeb yaoi arguments, was Cloti VS Clerith. Fucking minefield. Amazing to behold though.
Oh! I thought you were mentioning it as an example of "good" anime (since I've heard it praised often). Never mind then. :)
Edit: Which was because for some reason I thought Vandread was older.
1. To be fair, I'm specifically talking about KH Cloud and KH Squall.
2. No, FFVII Cloud belongs to Barret! You can't go on a date with Zach, now can you?
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Ok, that's pretty good.
There's more to things than just the artist, just as there's more to it than who's writing the story: there are executives to placate, for a start. And Xenosaga was planned to be a massive, big budget series, in contrast to Xenogears, which was a side-project born out of a discarded FF7 pitch...
That's a funny way of spelling Barret!
Article was made by a woman, Here is my two cents on why i dont like this Op. Women love to dress sexy, they love these characters , women loves to create these designs too its not ONLY men trying to create something to FAP. Its like Op tried to talk for all women, that is what it looks like to me. And these days There is so Much diversity that you dont need to play games like those, that are made to horny teenagers.
I mean, it was my favorite fanservicy 90's anime, but yeah, I'm not apologizing for it, it knew what it was doing. The jokes were good at least.
Some creators really do not age well, and start outputting shit after some point, which is really sad. See George Lucas, and more recently Matt Groening seems to have lost it too (Futurama took a nosedive after the series proper ended, and Disenchanted is just abysmal).
OP
OP
fdsjlllllllllllllllllk gdhghshhgdddddsl fmdsnbnmgfgffffffffffffffff
Thanks for your reply. I only played HZD but it was nice seeing Alloy being both someone who is capable of thrashing giant robots and brushing aside the advances of those who are used to get everything they want (specially the king).
As for the clarification, I might be wrong but not all empowering characters are necessarily power fantasies. To me a power fantasy suggest something a bit over the top. Something you know might not even be possible in real life but it is OK precisely because it's fantasy. So a normal character in a game that doesn't accept some patriarchal bullshit is probably just empowering but Alloy downing a Thunderjaw is a power fantasy.
My question came from me wondering that something a man considers a female power fantasy might be considered otherwise by most women.
As an example: the Amazon in Dragon's Crown is kind of the female version of the Barbarian male power fantasy. But that might only ring true from the point of view of a man. After, all chain-mail bikini is one of the things this thread criticises. I'm not sure if her being the most agile of the cast with some awesome berserk abilities is able to offset that or not. In fact, I'm not even sure if being overly muscled (excessively exaggerated proportions aside) is considered positive or negative as a power fantasy.
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Again, wanton and overused sexualization suddenly doesn't become harmless because women like to look their best. Morrigan is a great character, but would you expect women everywhere to dress like her every day? Then why would you expect the designs for almost every woman in games to have a morrigan-esque attire/body type. The normalization of sexualization is the problem, which is why we discuss and usually chastise it.
Like, I'm guessing english isn't your first language, but you're literally doing the thing you're accusing the OP of doing and I don't understand how you don't get that.
I think most women on the ENTIRE PLANET would agree they don't like being harassed. Games are part of a wide net of how women's problems are not listened to or taken seriously.
yep
No it's all about Clack! (I'm more for Cloti than Clerith tho, because Zerith is better than Clerith).
Seeing I love Vincent because I have a vampire fetish, I'll allow it.
I like to dress sexy. I love certain characters that are kind of sexualized (Samus for one, even with her Zero Suit). I also think Ivy's design is fucking stupidly hilarious. I can discuss these things in a mature way and present things that bother me. Diversity of opinions my friend, not all women are unified and you don't speak for us either.
Digg, if they go to cosplay show and dress sexy its because they like it no?
1. Cosplayers =/= all women
2. Cosplayers are living breathing people and not a fictional character.
You stated that women like to dress sexy while stating that the OP is trying to speak for all women. Not all women want to dress sexy.
Maybe a the OP should address the "this isn't an issue in MY country, but we aren't prude americans" that pops up constantly.
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