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Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,360
One thing that some of them, especially Nintendo, might not like about rollback netcode is that it generally means that characters will teleport to correct their positions after a misprediction. Pure delay systems might feel bad to play, but when looking at video it appears nice and smooth with no glitches.
If you're seeing that kind of teleporting happening, it means there is something wrong with how the netcode has been applied, or someone involved is using a supremely terrible connection.

Delay-based netcode certainly does not look smooth when it slows to a crawl and you're suddenly playing a slideshow.
 

jotun?

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,491
If you're seeing that kind of teleporting happening, it means there is something wrong with how the netcode has been applied, or someone involved is using a supremely terrible connection.
Probably depends a lot on the game. My main experience with GGPO is in Lethal League which is much closer to Smash than a traditional fighter, and it gets super glitchy-looking when trying to play people on different continents. Still playable, just looks really bad
 

ZeroCDR

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,141
Smash really hurts because the online component is what makes it just short of being perfect. It's maddening that I want to enjoy this incredible effort, incredible roster with people around the world and playing online it's just... trash. I'm amazed that they go all out everywhere but here.
 

battleborn27

Banned
Oct 6, 2018
693
SFV netcode is so embarrassing. The game's been out for 3 and a half years and it's worse than it's been before. But they'd rather use resources on making more overpriced fap bait costumes for the females I guess.
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,892
Pakistan
SFV netcode is so embarrassing. The game's been out for 3 and a half years and it's worse than it's been before. But they'd rather use resources on making more overpriced fap bait costumes for the females I guess.
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battleborn27

Banned
Oct 6, 2018
693
One could argue that for a while the brand was the only thing keeping MK games alive. During the dark ages in between oldschool MK and MK9, there were so many terrible games put out. The only reason the company survived is because those games happened to have MK in the title.

Don't underestimate the power of a strong brand. MK was good in the early 90s and coasted on that recognition for a long time.

But yeah anyway my point is MK sales by and large probably have nothing to do with netcode, good as it may be.
Fake news. MK Armageddon which was mediocre only sold a million copies. MK9, X and 11 sold well because they're good games. No amount of brand recognition will make a bad FG a soaring success, take a look at SFV which is a huge name and had huge promo, but still did really bad.
 
OP
OP
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,300
Houston, TX
everybody praises rollback but im pretty sure sfv uses that system and it is probably one of the worst online fighting game ive ever played. Absolute garbage
Because SFV doesn't do rollback very well. MvCI runs on a more refined version of SFV & SFxT's rollback netcode, and it finally got the netcode right.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
This is a HUGELY interesting GDC talk from NRS on how they implemented rollback netcode in MKX and IJ2 (and MK11 I suppose).



tldw: it was a lot of work. Also FYI, they didn't use GGPO.
 

misterBee

Member
Aug 16, 2018
223
Fake news. MK Armageddon which was mediocre only sold a million copies. MK9, X and 11 sold well because they're good games. No amount of brand recognition will make a bad FG a soaring success, take a look at SFV which is a huge name and had huge promo, but still did really bad.

A million copies isn't nothing. Think about how many bad MK games there are, and think about how long it took for MK9 to appear.

Enough people bought those mediocre games for NRS to survive for YEARS, almost completely due to the words 'Mortal Kombat' in the title. These were games that were often broken, where quality was dubious at best -- and they still had enough sales to keep a company afloat. MK vs DCU was a broken mess and it still sold 1.8 million copies. If trash is selling almost 2 million copies then it's obviously not just about quality.

MK9 was a good game, but so is Guilty Gear. Guilty Gear will never pull MK numbers in the United States, even if it became the best fighting game known to man. New GG trailer dropped and everyone said "WOW THIS GAME LOOKS SO GOOD!" but you can bet that won't translate to huge sales, especially among people who aren't already pretty into gaming. People praised Xrd, and even though it's a pretty well-loved game that didn't translate into sales among the general public. It probably sold less than MK vs DCU...a large part of the game buying population probably doesn't even know what Guilty Gear is.

You say SFV is bad but it still sold more than any fighting game that isn't called Tekken/MK -- two other franchises which coincidentally, are also household names. Even with all the bad press SFV got on launch/things it clearly lacks it still got sales because not everyone follows games media, and there are people who literally don't know about any other fighting games besides SF/MK/Tekken.

People in enthusiast circles often forget how uninformed the general public is about games. They buy the name they know, play it for a bit, then go on with the rest of their lives.

Quality helps but it's certainly not the main force driving sales in a lot of cases. Brand recognition is a HUGE part of Mortal Kombat's success throughout the years, regardless of game quality. That's not taking anything away from how good recent MK games have been -- MK11 is one of my favorite fighting games. But you can't discount that name recognition is, and always has been, a HUGE sales factor. That's why marketing exists -- it's all about getting the name out there and getting brand recognition.
 
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KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,072
I recall a lot of people complaining about not being able to pick your character before a fight in Street Fighter V and instead having to set the character you want to use on the card, and all I was thinking was, "Wait, you want it to take even longer to get into the fight?"
 

Maximilian

The Dood
Verified
Feb 19, 2019
290
This is a HUGELY interesting GDC talk from NRS on how they implemented rollback netcode in MKX and IJ2 (and MK11 I suppose).



tldw: it was a lot of work. Also FYI, they didn't use GGPO.


I love this GDC talk so much.
Here's another great talk regarding GGPO, it's history and implementation.

 

battleborn27

Banned
Oct 6, 2018
693
A million copies isn't nothing. Think about how many bad MK games there are, and think about how long it took for MK9 to appear.

Enough people bought those mediocre games for NRS to survive for YEARS, almost completely due to the words 'Mortal Kombat' in the title. These were games that were often broken, where quality was dubious at best -- and they still had enough sales to keep a company afloat. MK vs DCU was a broken mess and it still sold 1.8 million copies. If trash is selling almost 2 million copies then it's obviously not just about quality.

MK9 was a good game, but so is Guilty Gear. Guilty Gear will never pull MK numbers in the United States, even if it became the best fighting game known to man. New GG trailer dropped and everyone said "WOW THIS GAME LOOKS SO GOOD!" but you can bet that won't translate to huge sales, especially among people who aren't already pretty into gaming. People praised Xrd, and even though it's a pretty well-loved game that didn't translate into sales among the general public. It probably sold less than MK vs DCU...a large part of the game buying population probably doesn't even know what Guilty Gear is.

You say SFV is bad but it still sold more than any fighting game that isn't called Tekken/MK -- two other franchises which coincidentally, are also household names. Even with all the bad press SFV got on launch/things it clearly lacks it still got sales because not everyone follows games media, and there are people who literally don't know about any other fighting games besides SF/MK/Tekken.

People in enthusiast circles often forget how uninformed the general public is about games. They buy the name they know, play it for a bit, then go on with the rest of their lives.

Quality helps but it's certainly not the main force driving sales in a lot of cases. Brand recognition is a HUGE part of Mortal Kombat's success throughout the years, regardless of game quality. That's not taking anything away from how good recent MK games have been -- MK11 is one of my favorite fighting games. But you can't discount that name recognition is, and always has been, a HUGE sales factor. That's why marketing exists -- it's all about getting the name out there and getting brand recognition.
So why did SFV / Street Fighter x Tekken / MVC Infinite bomb? Surely the names are big enough to sell more than they did đź‘€
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,224
There should be more focus on SFV's netcode in highlight videos, just show how common the issue is.

My biggest gripe with the gaming outlet is they have no clue what's going on with the FGC.

No gaming outlet besides Shoryuken and Eventhub has address the major complaint that's plaguing Japanese fighting games.


They review the games, have news about an update and that's it.
 

misterBee

Member
Aug 16, 2018
223
So why did SFV / Street Fighter x Tekken / MVC Infinite bomb? Surely the names are big enough to sell more than they did đź‘€

Despite all of SFV's bad word of mouth and disappointing sales at launch, it has still sold over 3.7 million copies. It's no SF4 but it's a failure in terms of expectations, not normal metrics.

SFxT came out as the new wave of fighting game fatigue had begun to set in. Multiple versions of SF4 had already been released by that point, and the people in the general public who had wanted a fighting game had already bought SF4 and were happy with it/forgotten about it already. The competitive scene hated it for various reasons, but the general public simply didn't care about it. It didn't help that it had the same character models/style as SF4, so didn't differentiate itself visually either. Despite all this, even then it still got at least 1.7 million in sales. You imply SFxT is low quality, but 1.7 million isn't nothing. If anything this proves my point. Brand is what gave that game as many sales as it got, especially in a market that wasn't nearly as receptive anymore.

MvCI was hideous. Casuals who might have been interested were driven away almost immediately by the graphics/first impressions. Ironically it's a pretty good fighting game -- its aesthetics are actually the main thing wrong with it. It even has respectable netcode, which is the point of this thread.

Basically, fighting game fatigue (casuals don't buy that many except for the few mainline ones, and they only do it once in a while)/graphics doomed MvCI and SFxT. Casual sales are based on really shallow things -- how good of a fighting game it is doesn't always have anything to do with it. Quality and word of mouth have an effect, but it can't always compete with raw brand power, especially among consumers who don't research games or keep up to date with game news/reviews.

To put things in perspective, UMvC3 is liked by a lot of people both in and out of the fgc -- and still sold less than MK vs DCU. So unless you're going to tell me MK vs DCU is a higher quality product than MvC3 that's a pretty good indicator of brand power right there. Mortal Kombat + Batman/Superman was enough to outperform a game that was technically better in every way. A game that is literally broken mechanically outperformed much better fighting games in sales because people know MK and people know Batman/Superman. If sales were all about quality this wouldn't be possible.

When a non-enthusiast walks into a store looking for a 3d fighter, he'll either get Tekken or Soul Calibur. When they want a 2d fighter, they'll buy SF or MK. Other titles are simply not on peoples' radars, regardless of how good they may be. These are simply the games most people are aware of, and a lot of people don't stray far from what they know. Even if they learn about other games, it's highly unlikely they'll give them a try.

MK11 is a wonderful game. It has a lot of wonderful things in it. I bet a ton of people who bought it didn't know or care about any of that. They just knew MK is the series with the yellow ninja guy and there's a lot of blood, and that's SICKKKK.
 
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