Why the hate for crossgen?

[svnty6rs3]

I'm really interested to see the process of porting down a game like Horizon from PS5 to PS4. I wonder if the changes will be standard, like longer load times and lower res graphics or if there will be bigger changes to actual level design / no flying on the PS4 version for example.

 

[Gradly]

This time it's different because of the SSD and we're talking about a difference of 50-100x in speed that's a game changer. And the idea you're developing a game with the slow HDD in mind is gonna hurt the game no matter what you say. We already saw developers design their games to hide loading times such as forced walking or elevators etc so we will still see that 😭 I'm waiting for next gen to get rid of old design constrains, and I'm talking about a fundamental design choices it's not about scalable CPU or GPU as in PC as most will try to make a point

 

[FantaSoda]

Creates a hard bottleneck for game design and requires significantly more development resources to ensure performance is acceptable on the lower spec.

Click to shrink...

This is the exact reason.

 

[Kwigo]

People buy a 500€ console to play a gen 9 game, not a gen 8.5 game.

(Just to be clear, I don't mind crossgen games)

 

[Apath]

.

 

[MrFox]

Making the game on next-gen and porting to the previous gen is perfectly fine. For some games it will be easy, some will require a second team to do the porting and modifying the game to work, and a few games it just won't be possible.

The worry is the cases where cross-gen games get the PC treatment. I.e. not actually designed from the ground up for next-gen technology, old engines, old rendering techniques, legacy I/O methods, then it only gets higher res and higher fps on the better hardware. This is what we had with the mid-gen refresh, and I would find it an unacceptable path for next-gen.

Anyone saying it's fine on PC need to take a long hard look at benchmarks of loading times on current PC games with a $1000 SSD in it. That expensive SSD is still 20 secs load times because games were designed for the common denominator and ported "up" without specifically supporting such a fast storage with a completely rewritten I/O system (including the OS and API). Now we see a next-gen console demonstrating 1 sec load times in Demon Soul and Ratchet and Clank. The effort was put into rewriting the game engines to make it possible. One is a remaster that took advantage of the SSD, the other is a game design which actually requires the SSD.

The silver lining is that sony said the games are two versions developed in parallel, which I find reassuring. That means they can make the game however the team wants, and then decide later during production if it can actually be ported down or not. Intuitively, I find this an ideal solution.

 

[Mugen X]

Didn't Sony say Horizon and Spiderman were PS5 exclusive? They should have released this news long ago, I don't get why they'd want to potentially kill some of the hype around their event with this news releasing simultaneously alongside all the good news.

 

[Fawz]

A group only moves as fast as its slower member, the same way that we are still supporting base PS4 and XB1 is holding games back. Eventually to get the most out of games they'll have to draw a line. That being said it makes sense to have cross-gen games at new console launch since the risks are much lower (No one gets everything out of new hardware from the get-go) and the market share is disproportionately towards the previous gen.

The one scenario I can see it working out where the NG version of the game isn't held back is when a separate development studio undertakes the efforts of the weakest platform, but usually that ends up as being a shoddy port if the simultaneous launch timing is maintained.

 

[Megabreath]

I think the problem was Sony trying to hide it. If they were upfront people would live with it, why hide it when its going to come out eventually? Sony's PR has been terrible and tone deaf since June, they are lucky that they make good games, i miss the early PS4 team.

Besides I doubt the games would really take advantage of the PS5 hardware if they are launching in the first year anyway.

 

[KrillinLikeAVillan]

Because people want games on their shiny new hardware that actually takes full advantage of that shiny new hardware and not games that look like a hd remaster.

Personally i don't have any problem with crossgen as long as they drop the old consoles at some point.

 

[Abominuz]

I dont mind cross-gen if its for the next year or maybe 2. As long as the games look and play better on my new console and make use of the new controller and audio options. But i do believe with the cpu's and HDD on this gen consoles, design will be compromised. The PC gamers keep yelling we have been gaming like this for years, but this is not only a resolution or framerate adjustment. It is also how many npc's/objects, interaction in the world, AI, etc. More power means more options in design that you could not do before.

 

[headspawn]

You would think Sony would've just broken the illusion for folks who have been dick waving Horizon and Miles Morales as the next gen only kings, but I think they'll soldier oen regardlesscsesz

 

[Halbrand]

This time it's different because of the SSD and we're talking about a difference of 50-100x in speed that's a game changer. And the idea you're developing a game with the slow HDD in mind is gonna hurt the game no matter what you say. We already saw developers design their games to hide loading times such as forced walking or elevators etc so we will still see that 😭 I'm waiting for next gen to get rid of old design constrains, and I'm talking about a fundamental design choices it's not about scalable CPU or GPU as in PC as most will try to make a point

Click to shrink...

Isn't it supposed to help make development times faster too? Not sure how that works if they have to make the games for PS4 too.

 

[Shadow of the Void]

Y'know, cross-gen doesn't bother me. It's just not a big deal to me one way or the other.

It's been a thing for 20 years now, with some games released in 2000 & 2001 being released on both the PS1 & PS2. There were PS2 games from 2005 & later released on the 360 & PS3. And cross-gen continued into the start of this generation. The ultimate example was FIFA 14, which launched simultaneously on PS2, PS3, and PS4, as well as 360 & XBO, making it the only game released simultaneously on three separate generations. Now, it is true that first-party games have generally not been cross-gen outside of a handful of exceptions (Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild come to mind, but the two systems each of those were released on were very similar in terms of power), but it's really no bigger of deal than third-party games being cross-gen. And with the power gap not being as pronounced with each successive generation, it's probably easier to scale early-gen games back to last-gen specs.

It makes sense from a business perspective to do cross-gen for a limited time as the new systems still have a small install base and there's still a lot of people who haven't transitioned to the new systems, so why not wait until there's a decent install base (say 15-20M units worldwide) to cut off support for last-gen entirely?

Also, it's not like games released super early usually take full advantage of the new hardware. Boundary-pushing games released in the first year are rare. So many current-gen-only launch titles end up looking a bit dated compared to later games in the generation. About the only launch window PS5 or XSX/S games I know of that have gameplay mechanics purposefully designed around the SSD are Ratchet and The Medium.

And besides, the new-gen versions almost always look (and sometimes play) substantially better. I know, because I've played a few. For example, I played Burnout Revenge on both PS2 & 360 and Destiny on both the 360 & PS4, and in both cases the newer-gen version looked way better (and Burnout Revenge on the 360 even played better than the PS2 version). Granted, those differences may be less pronounced than in past generational transitions for reasons mentioned earlier, but they'll still be there, especially when comparing base model PS4 & XBO games to PS5 & XSX games.