Why the hate for crossgen?

[LossAversion]

It is a little disappointing that Spider-Man is cross-gen because it means that we won't get increased swing speeds thanks to the SSD. They still have to account for an HDD. Unless they want to deliver two fundamentally different games. It's not really the visuals that I'm concerned about. The SSD's should literally be game changers but that won't happen unless the game is truly exclusive to next gen machines. For the most part though, I think cross-gen is fine for launch titles. But as soon as games start to look like Spider-Man 3 on PS2 and Dragon Age: Inquisition on PS3... it's time to move on.

 

[Monarch1501]

Poor people aren't allowed to enjoy new things. It lessens the experience for the hardcore fanboys/girls.

Frankly if your enjoyment of something is based on the gatekeeping of it from others then you're an asshole.

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Who ever said that? I never saw anything close to that sentiment anywhere on this forum.
As for the question, it's simple. Game design, level design, gameplay mechanics, the complexity of IA, the number of simultaneous players in an online game for example - just to name a few - will still have to work on 7 years old machines instead.
To be cross-gen is just to have another graphical preset, like a PC. And well, you can't drive innovation with increased rendering resolution and a steadier FPS.

 

[MrBreada]

Cross-gen is good.

 

[Richter1887]

I mean yes you can play Miles Morales on PS4 but it sure as shit won't be the same game.

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Not sure how?

Other than the graphics and frame rate, what exactly will change?

To put it simply, look at Ratchet. Does this game seem possible on PS4? It doesn't and that's because it is taking advantage of the new hardware. Spider Man meanwhile won't be that different gameplay wise. Maybe some minor improvements but other than that it will be the same game.

 

[fanboy]

No, next gen is great but no console has released with new cutting edge videogames in the last 15 years, it's always been crossgen mostly since games take time to be developed. And since consoles are basically PC's now, it's just going to be like that. PS5 exclusives are coming so it's fine.

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Ratchet wouldnt be possible on PS4.I imagine Horizon 2 could do wonders if it was designed for PS5 hardware. I just pray that God of War istn crossgen as well.

 

[LumberPanda]

I'm surprised by Horizon being cross-gen, but given the context of the current worldwide pandemic I think it's really really good that these games are cross gen.

As far as "stifling innovation", the games that take advantage of the PS5 were only going to trickle in for the first few years because you need a radical shift in design for the PS5 to not be just better graphics and loading (see R&C's setpieces being built from ground up for PS5 - not every developer envisions making setpieces like that). If you just want to a make normal open world game in Manhattan without portals you weren't going to need the PS5 immediately.

 

[oni_gank]

I don't hate it, love it.

In fact, I have expected that many games are cross gen anyway especially during the first few years. Like other console generations before.


People complaints are just noise 😊

 

[MrTired]

Which is selfish, apparently. 🙄

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🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️
Gaming is a very selfish hobby.

 

[CJSeven]

Reminder that the biggest Switch launch title, and one of the greatest games ever, was a Wii U game. People should be focused on good games, not what hardware they release on.

 

[Eamon]

lol, have you been in this forum for the past few months? Cross-gen has been built up as the devil for quite a while here.

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This. The amount of dumb concern trolling threads from console warriors worrying about how the Xbox One (and even Xbox Series S) were holding back next gen was ridiculous.

 

[Shelbyville Milhouse]

It's just funny because a bunch of people here gave MS a lot of shit when they announced their cross gen strategy and Sony stated that they "believe in generations".
Nothing more.

 

[Lemony1984]

Reminder that the biggest Switch launch title, and one of the greatest games ever, was a Wii U game. People should be focused on good games, not what hardware they release on.

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In fairness, that's not really the same as the power difference between the Wii U and Switch is pretty small.

 

[Pyro]

I'm fine with it because I like saving money and will likely only dish out $70 for new games rarely cuz I just don't think $70 + a bunch of MTX is worth it.

 

[BasilZero]

People dont want to share :p


(Its because they are worried the games are held back in design).

 

[gofreak]

Development will benefit when devs don't have to optimise for a range of hardware separated by 7+ years. All else equal, that will have knock on benefits for the user. It's not always about doing something super innovative that you couldn't do on previous hardware, as freeing up optimisation resources to spend on polish and other areas.

A new console has traditionally heralded the start of that process, among first party developers at least, even if launch games don't always show off new hardware to its maximum. It's counter to expectations that neither new console is really doing that this year and I think that bums people out when they're used to console launches being different, and used to the start of the shift in development coinciding with the release of hardware - that may be on the more irrational side of things, but people aren't wholly rational.

 

[E.T.]

Should be ok. Like most cycles the break will be happening a couple of years into the new generation.
They absolutely need to clarify which titles are cross-gen so people at least know.

 

[oni_gank]

Reminder that the biggest Switch launch title, and one of the greatest games ever, was a Wii U game. People should be focused on good games, not what hardware they release on.

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Agree with this. But Youtube, Reddit, Resetera comments are different beasts...you just can't win arguments with them Lol

 

[test_account]

I dont hate cross gen titles, but i mostly want the games to be designed specifically for the new hardware. But having cross gen titles within the first year is fine i think, since those games usually dont push the hardware that much (it takes time to learn the new hardware in and out, after all).

 

[flaxknuckles]

I want to trade in my PS4 Pro to get credit towards a PS5 purchase but I don't know what the state of backwards compatibility will be. Did Sony post any updated information? If it's not 100% I might have to keep the PS4 Pro console.

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Same here. I started a trade in with Amazon since you get $218 for a PS4 Pro but now hearing that all these PS5 games are cross gen or coming to PC has me feeling ehhhhhhh so I might cancel it. If PS5 supports all PS4 games AND upgrades a good lot of them then I could still be convinced to jump in day one. Otherwise, the only benefit I'll get from the PS5 is faster loading times and a handful of cross gen games.....

 

[19thCenturyFox]

can people please take into account that there's a pandemic going on and it's nice that some people who may not be able to drop $500 now can still have fun with Spiderman

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I get what you and others who bring this up mean but something about "think about the pandemic, giant recession, unemployment, entire industries going out of business" vs. "fun with Spider-Man" just rubs me the wrong way. People will have issues making ends meet, having fun with Spider-Man should be a very low priority 500 dollar console or not. 2021 will be rough for all of us and while Spider-Man seems to be a good guy to hang around with maybe we have to face the fact that we have to cut him out of our lives when we either have to hunt for food or our food starts hunting us.

TLDR

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Sony is talking about generations and showing off things that previous hardware can't do, and then they turn around and say "oh actually you're looking at PS4 games, and they cost $70 now". And you don't understand why people are upset?

These consoles are SEVEN YEARS OLD, they had a good life, time to move on.

 

[JDHarbs]

I can't think of a time when cross gen was more important to have than now.

I've been furloughed in the middle of a pandemic. I'm not going to be able to upgrade to new consoles for at least a year or two. The fact that I still get to play Halo, Miles, and Horizon without losing $1000 between 2 new consoles is everything to me right now.

 

[chipperrip]

And well, you can't drive innovation with increased rendering resolution and a steadier FPS.

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Hardware power doesn't compare to a lack of imagination though, but yeah, the fewer physical barriers to making your ideas real the better.

 

[Cloud-Hidden]

Because the slow HDDs, lacking featureset and slow Jaguar CPUs will hold these games back immensively.

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That's like saying the GTX 970 is holding back PC gaming.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I get what you and others who bring this up mean but something about "think about the pandemic, giant recession, unemployment, entire industries going out of business" vs. "fun with Spider-Man" just rubs me the wrong way. People will have issues making ends meet, having fun with Spider-Man should be a very low priority 500 dollar console or not. 2021 will be rough for all of us and while Spider-Man seems to be a good guy to hang around maybe we have to face the fact that we have to cut him out of our lives when we either have to hunt for food or our food starts hunting us.

TLDR

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spending $50 for a game on a console you've already owned for years is a pretty significant difference from $550+tax. That's eleven times the price.

 

[Gassy_N0va]

I think its a good practice, just hilarious as it's been an anti-microsoft console war talking point for what now? Over a year? As a PS4 owner, I'm glad I can now play Miles Morales, but it sure is something that it was touted as a PS5-only title until today.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

Poor people aren't allowed to enjoy new things. It lessens the experience for the hardcore fanboys/girls.

Frankly if your enjoyment of something is based on the gatekeeping of it from others then you're an asshole.

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Wow. Projecting 'beliefs' like this onto others makes you the asshole buddy.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

I like tech pushing games forward to the point they can't run on old gen hardware. Cross gen makes me feel I should just stick to the old systems.

 

[Spinluck]

Because people are dumb. Ignore them.

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.

 

[CJSeven]

In fairness, that's not really the same as the power difference between the Wii U and Switch is pretty small.

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I would then point to AC4, which was by far my favorite PS4 launch title despite being developed for the 8 year old X360/PS3.

 

[nsilvias]

Gamers are illusioned to belive that devs are gonn a throw a ton of money and new tech into new games at the start of the Gen with such a small install base if they drop last Gen

 

[Lemony1984]

People are looking for reasons to justify the price/upgrade. All the Xbox threads are about how they've no games to encourage you to buy a Series X/S this year. Sony have Demon's Souls but that's it. (If you are into Sackboy, good for you) Up to now Miles Morales and Horizon were also on that list but they are not.

Don't think it's worth getting angry about. but I get it.

 

[EdgeXL]

As far as I can tell most of the hate for crossgen comes from people who think list wars are very important

 

[19thCenturyFox]

spending $50 for a game on a console you've already owned for years is a pretty significant difference from $550+tax. That's eleven times the price.

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I agree with you on this. I'm just saying that if shit hits the fan no one will be thinking about buying or playing videogames. That whole discussion becomes obsolete. I can identify with your point better without the Covid part, because that would make everything related to video games completely irrelevant for me.

 

[Sia]

I dont mind it for certain games, but I feel like a game like horizon would greatly benefit from not having to develop for 7 year old hardware.

 

[Chucker]

I said this in the other thread that got locked.


I don't think people are mad at cross gen, it's the way it was marketed.

Making customers feel duped isn't a great look.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Gamers are illusioned to belive that devs are gonn a throw a ton of money and new tech into new games at the start of the Gen with such a small install base if they drop last Gen

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That's what they're marketing was saying!

 

[Monarch1501]

Hardware power doesn't compare to a lack of imagination though, but yeah, the fewer physical barriers to making your ideas real the better.

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Oh that's for sure. The less I think about the hardware and its limitations, the better :)

 

[Sanka]

Because developers are seemingly sick of being forced to develop on old hardware and I want to see what they are capable when unrestricted.

 

[Dogui]

You need to justify the fortune paid for the next gen console day 1.

 

[pappacone]

I remeber someone from Guerrilla saying that Horizon didn't have flying mounts because of technical limitations, that's enough of a reason
Don't care about the other two games being cross-gen

 

[tatotiburon]

now crossgen is good....i have to be honest, i'm enjoying this day very much

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

This. Most notably, it was weaponized by PlayStation marketing. Which is now, obviously, a massive blunder.

The ironic part is that now Xbox has a dozen next gen exclusives announced and PlayStation has God of War (possibly).

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PlayStation has Ratchet & Clank, Final Fantasy XVI and Demon's Souls. God of War might still be cross-gen, we don't know that yet.

As for the question: I expect fully optimized games for new hardware, especially from first-party studios. Making them cross-gen always comes with compromises. The games can still look fantastic - Spider-Man already proofed that. But this is "just" an addon to a PS4 game anyway, so we didn't expect crazy things from it. It's still the old framework, not a full sequel.

But you can't shake the feeling that the games could have done some even more crazy things with last-gen out of the picture. Horizon Zero Dawn 2 is especially disappointing to me because I expected this to be the first flagship PS5 game with all the bells and whistles. But let's see how things turn out. We had cross-gen games that were night and day difference last-gen. Maybe it's the case with some of the PS5 games again.

 

[AegonSnake]

whats the point of a 8 core 16 thread CPU when you are going to be limited by a 8 core single thread CPU running at 1.6 ghz?
Whats the point of talking about the SSD 30 minutes in March when you are going to be limited by a 20 MBps SSD anyway?
Whats the point of making us buy a $500 console when i can play the same game on my PS4? But now for a $10 premium?

this explains why they were targeting native 4k 30 fps for horizon. didnt make any sense to me back then but now it makes perfect sense.

 

[Zedelima]

Every beginning of gen is the same thing...people just want to see exclusives games that uses the full potential of the new consoles

 

[Outrun]

lol, have you been in this forum for the past few months? Cross-gen has been built up as the devil for quite a while here.

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Yep.

 

[BloodRayne]

Only the rich get mad at crossgen

 

[zombiejames]

Sony is talking about generations and showing off things that previous hardware can't do, and then they turn around and say "oh actually you're looking at PS4 games, and they cost $70 now". And you don't understand why people are upset?

These consoles are SEVEN YEARS OLD, they had a good life, time to move on.

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Simple and blunt.

 

[Kolx]

Because PS4 and Xone have a shit CPU and 5200rpm HDD, that's why. And this's coming from someone who isn't buying a next gen console for at least a year probably.

 

[werezompire]

Games that are cross-gen generally started development as targeting the older generation of hardware and were never fully designed for more advanced hardware. I think it's better to be pleased that they're getting enhanced next-gen versions, not upset that they didn't cancel the original platform.