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Deleted member 9306

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
962
Before you ask, yes I'm 100% getting the vaccine, and I'm Black too. But I'm just offering some perspective to people as to why a lot of Black people are wary about it, and why making fun of them isn't helpful since their fears are pretty well founded and their skepticism doesn't come out of nowhere. (I've seen this sentiment on here in multiple other threads so I'm just making this thread to educate people.)









(Posting the rest of her content here since I can't link to more than 4 tweets at a time:)

" 5/ A lot more Black people with die if we don't get this vaccine campaign right. The odds are not in our favor based on everything that has led to this moment. We need laser focus and surgical precision to pull this off. But I believe we can.
6/ If we are serious about addressing the racial Heath disparities around COVID-19, we need a legitimate, well-planned and executed approach to getting Black and brown folx to buy in. The normal approach WILL fail. Completely. So how do we do it?
7/ As a Black woman and front line physician currently caring for patients with and without COVID on Chicago's South Side - here is what will ACTUALLY work in my view:
8/ First, we need to admit that white people and the government have little to no credibility in the average Black person's eyes. That's not a debate. That's a forgone conclusion. What's more, there is not enough time to correct that perception before this vaccine comes live.
9/ There's not enough time because white people and the white supremacist institutions that run our country have been abusing and terrorizing Black people for over 400 years. And continue to do so actively. Again, this point is not a debate.
10/ First slavery, then Black Codes, then Jim Crow, now mass incarceration, police brutality, and systematic oppression through a myriad of current racist laws and policies. The harsh fact of the matter is...white people simply don't deserve Black people's trust. At all.
11/ You all have not earned it. And you certainly won't earn it in time for this latest vaccination effort. Let that hope go. In Medicine, we triage during emergencies. The trust can't be repaired in time. We can and should fix that on the back end...once we survive this.
12/ If health systems, the government and providers *really* want Black people to take this vaccine, you all better start passing the mic and passing the power to act to Black and brown people. And fast.
13/ And not just wealthy Black people, Black academics and other Black "elites" Give the mic and give MONEY to Black people on the ground. Give it to grassroots organizers. Give it to Black church leaders. Give it to the people who live, work and love in Black communities.
14/ Listen to them. Follow them. Protect them. Support them. Uplift them. Pay them. Then let them work. They lead. You don't.
15/ White ppl - This is bigger ego. Or at least it should be. If you are not the right person to get this done...it is okay. I promise. Just PLEASE be honest with yourself about it.
16/ Then use your power, position and privilege to empower the right people to get this done. Why? Because you are still good person despite the horrible, racist lies we were all taught about each other. And because it is the right thing to do now.
17/ One final piece of parting advice, that never fails. If you get lost out there, just remember: Listen to Black women. "

Like, just earlier this year I had to go to a hospital (wont go into details) and I was freaking out and in a lot of pain, and instead of helping me the doctors just laughed at me and acted like it was all in my head. I felt ignored, abused, and lost. To this day when bad shit happens to me I don't like going to the doctor/nurses for it because I know they wont take my concerns seriously. And I live Canada. I can only imagine how much bad-will doctors have earned themselves over the last 400 or so years.

Side Note, but white people blatantly lying and poisoning Black people is also why...*cringe* Hoteps are so popular. Sure, The Honourable Kufi Umar might be peddling snake-oil, but at least he's not The Man(tm)
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
The US tests medicine in POC often. We tested birth control on Puerto Rican women without regards to side effects of potential issues.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 9306

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
962
We tested birth control on Puerto Rican women without regards to side effects of potential issues.
I get that sense that many Puerto Ricans are feeling this way, too.


Oh dear, I'm sorry, I wasn't even aware that they tested stuff on Puerto Ricans either. I know in Canada we test on Indigenous people too. If either of our vaccine rollouts fail it's entirely on our governments for not treating people with dignity.
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory points of comparison regarding racism; thread derail over multiple posts. Prior severe ban for dismissing transphobia.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week.

Do they not realize white people will get the same vaccine as them? Do they think they have special separate syringes labeled "only for use on black people? I suppose delusional conspiracy thinking isn't exclusive to white MAGA types.
 

Kunka Kid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,022
Hey, once everyone that wants to get the vaccine can get it, it's kind of your prerogative if you want to take it or not.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week.

Do they not realize white people will get the same vaccine as them? Do they think they have special separate syringes labeled "only for use on black people? I suppose delusional conspiracy thinking isn't exclusive to white MAGA types.

yikes with this post

didnt we have a thread about more Black people dying from COVID because the doctors wouldn't give them properly treatment because "they are more resistent"?
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
yikes with this post

didnt we have a thread about more Black people dying from COVID because the doctors wouldn't give them properly treatment because "they are more resistent"?

That is an entirely different and very upsetting story that has nothing to do with this story.

Being afraid of a vaccine thinking that it is going to hurt them because white people made it, when white people will be getting the same injection as them, is conspiracy theory stuff plain and simple.

That theory requires that they are somehow sneaking in vials labeled for use only on black people that contain something harmful, or that the vaccine has some kind of nanobots that detect if the person is white or not.

It isn't rational at all.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,438
I tried to hint at this a bit in the thread where the Presidents were taking the vaccine to hopefully instill some trust in people without it.

But everyone was too busy with the "Noone cares, right wing nuts won't budge" etc etc. Im like, its more than right wing people. And some folsk with some backgrounds have reason to fear the medical system to some degree as its been weaponized at times and treated them unfairly in others.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week.

Do they not realize white people will get the same vaccine as them? Do they think they have special separate syringes labeled "only for use on black people? I suppose delusional conspiracy thinking isn't exclusive to white MAGA types.

batten.virginia.edu

Black Americans are Systematically Under-Treated for Pain. Why?

When it comes to the healthcare you receive, the color of your skin can make a significant difference, social psychologist Sophie Trawalter told an online audience last week.

You are too busy trying to dunk on people to note the problem. The problem isnt 'special syringes' its some people lacking trust in the medical field altogether because of past and historical trends:

Racial disparities are particularly striking in pain treatment, Trawalter said, with studies showing that Black patients are significantly less likely to be prescribed pain medication and that they generally receive lower doses of it when they are. One possible reason for this, supported by existing studies, is that white people believe Black people experience less pain. Trawalter is attempting to uncover the root causes of this belief.

Its a problem with TRUST when these issues have been experienced by these groups.

That is an entirely different story

No, its fucking not. The issue is trust. Period.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
That is an entirely different story that has nothing to do with being afraid of a vaccine thinking that it is going to hurt them because white people made it, when white people will be getting the same injection as them.

That's just conspiracy theory material, plain and simple.

the point is that they dont trust the medical system, PERIOD.

nothing to do with "ooh they will give me water instead of the vaccine"
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,980
I can certainly understand the sentiment behind this. Hopefully community leaders can help bridge the gap in trust.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,157
Gentrified Brooklyn
That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week.

Do they not realize white people will get the same vaccine as them? Do they think they have special separate syringes labeled "only for use on black people? I suppose delusional conspiracy thinking isn't exclusive to white MAGA types.

I mean.

Lets be honest.

That would absolutely happen in America, lol.

Like would you bet against this happening in 2021?

1)Impoverished areas will get the vaccine last, essential workers be damned
2)If there's a case of multiple vaccines with various efficiency rates and price points a year or two down the line, they would get shafted with the cheapest least effective optoon

Honestly only real reason this makes this thinking nonsense is vaccines work when everybody takes it, so the poor, impoverished, POC will come along for the ride. But only for that reason, lol.
 

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week.

Do they not realize white people will get the same vaccine as them? Do they think they have special separate syringes labeled "only for use on black people? I suppose delusional conspiracy thinking isn't exclusive to white MAGA types.

YOU'RE the dumbest thing I've heard all week!!!!

(I'm kidding. I just wanted to reflect that that type of language isn't conducive to any discussion, ESPECIALLY if you aren't aware of the information surrounding the topic.)

Medical professionals are completely aware of this phenomenon. This is not something "stupid."

A group of physicians and scientists are urging the U.S. government to include Black, Latino and indigenous Americans in the design and implementation of COVID-19 vaccine trials in hopes of building trust among these at-risk populations.

Without such actions, populations most in need of the vaccine may be reluctant to take it, Dr. Richard Baron, chief executive of the American Board of Internal Medicine(ABIM) and colleagues, said in an open letter seen by Reuters to the head of Operation Warp Speed, the White House program set up to accelerate coronavirus vaccine development.


Baron is president of the ABIM Foundation which backed the successful "Choosing Wisely" campaign to reduce the overuse of unnecessary tests.

www.reuters.com

U.S. urged to include Black, Latino communities in COVID-19 vaccine trials

A group of physicians and scientists are urging the U.S. government to include Black, Latino and indigenous Americans in the design and implementation of COVID-19 vaccine trials in hopes of building trust among these at-risk populations.
 

rucury

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,383
Puerto Rico
Maybe on the mainland, but I have not gotten that sense from anyone on the island. Everyone I know (even the poorest and most conservative) are eager for a vaccine.
I live on the island and can say that most people I know (especially the poorest and most conservative) are wary of taking the vaccine.
 

C.Mongler

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,881
Washington, DC
That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week.

Do they not realize white people will get the same vaccine as them? Do they think they have special separate syringes labeled "only for use on black people? I suppose delusional conspiracy thinking isn't exclusive to white MAGA types.

Is "Black people are dumb for having a deep-rooted, legitimate distrust of America's largely white-serving medical system" really the take you wanted to make my guy???
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
Oh this is perfect timing. I was just talking about this in the Letitia Wright thread. People are being too quick to beat down on black people with their judgment without educating themselves on the deeper reasoning behind it all. It's a nuanced issue.
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
No, its fucking not. The issue is trust. Period.

Yes, it is literally by definition a different story. This story is about some conspiracy theory involving vaccines. That other story is about black people being mistreated in hospitals.

Is "Black people are dumb for having a deep-rooted, legitimate distrust of America's largely white-serving medical system" really the take you wanted to make my guy???

Back off, nobody said that shit and you know it "my guy".
 

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
That is an entirely different and very upsetting story that has nothing to do with this story.

Being afraid of a vaccine thinking that it is going to hurt them because white people made it, when white people will be getting the same injection as them, is conspiracy theory stuff plain and simple.

That theory requires that they are somehow sneaking in vials labeled for use only on black people that contain something harmful, or that the vaccine has some kind of nanobots that detect if the person is white or not.

It isn't rational at all.

It's 100% interrelated as it reflects the level of care black, indigenous, and people of color receive in the medical system.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
Oh this is perfect timing. I was just talking about this in the Letitia Wright thread. People are being too quick to beat down on black people with their judgment without educating themselves on the deeper reasoning behind it all. It's a nuanced issue.
Don't think you want to go there with her case since it's rooted in hotep religious nut transphobic trash
 
Important Extra Information Guys!
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Megan Thee Fury et al.

YDF1VD4.png


www.nytimes.com

Unequal treatment (Published 2007)

Harriet Washington investigates the exploitation of African-Americans in medical research.

You all can do well to spend some time in this book. It should be considered required reading for those who want to know more about what has happened to people of color in the past AND present. This will provide the requisite context for the real, on-going fears in the community regarding healthcare and unequal care for people of color. Tweets are nice, but it doesn't compare with 522 pages of straight, researched talk. Unequal treatment from healthcare professionals is not imagined; it ls real, demonstrable, measurable, and has result in the deaths and injuries of countless people of color.



Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present: Washington, Harriet A.: 9780767915472: Amazon.com: Books

Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present [Washington, Harriet A.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times...

You can also find it in your local library.
 
Last edited:

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,438
Is "Black people are dumb for having a deep-rooted, legitimate distrust of America's largely white-serving medical system" really the take you wanted to make my guy???


Forget it. Some people just gonna do what they do. Trying to explain but if they don't want to hear it; not like that's anything new in this country so, whatever.
 

Ikuu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,294
Can someone explain to me why they would be weary of the vaccination? Are they concerned it hasn't been tested on black people or they're not being included in the process? At the moment I'm not really understanding the concern when it's being rolled out to everyone and isn't being targeted to any specific community.
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
Nobody asked you to broadcast your ignorance.

Oh i'm sorry I didn't realize we defend anti-vax conspiracy theories here now.

I thought we weren't going to let anti-vax rethoric fly anymore on here. The medical system is unquestionably racist, but doubting that you get the same vaccination as any other (white) person is opening a wholly different can of worms. That level of doubt does indeed border on paranoia.

This. Everybody is getting the same injections. They aren't secretly going to inject black people with fake vaccines or anything.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
I thought we weren't going to let anti-vax rethoric fly anymore on here. The medical system is unquestionably racist, but doubting that you get the same vaccination as any other (white) person is opening a wholly different can of worms. That level of doubt does indeed border on paranoia.
 

Woylie

Member
May 9, 2018
1,849
That's the dumbest thing I've heard this week.

Do they not realize white people will get the same vaccine as them? Do they think they have special separate syringes labeled "only for use on black people? I suppose delusional conspiracy thinking isn't exclusive to white MAGA types.

Google the Tuskegee Syphilis Study. Black people's distrust of the medical establishment isn't unfounded, even if it's not true in the case of this vaccine.
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
I mean sure, I sympathize with her points - but this does veer into conspiracy theory territory for me, personally.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
Don't think you want to go there with her case since it's rooted in hotep religious nut transphobic trash
Yeah I understand that. I mentioned that in my post there too. It's complicated because it's mixed in with all that bigotry and shit which obviously needs to be condemned.

Im not so much saying that the things she's said or linked to are ok, it's just the reaction I saw there with certain posts regarding the anti-vax stuff that showed an ignorance to why the black community might have a distrust of the medical system. It's not so much about Letitia herself.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,438
Can someone explain to me why they would be weary of the vaccination? Are they concerned it hasn't been tested on black people or they're not being included in the process? At the moment I'm not really understanding the concern when it's being rolled out to everyone and isn't being targeted to any specific community.

Check out some of the links we have posted. The treatment for thinks like ACL tears, or surgery anesthesia and more are also really the 'same' but historically there are problems where POC aren't being medically treated equally or fairly due to bias. This is despite the fact that theres no "Special" version of morphine specifically for white people etc... Somehow unequal treatment still found its way into the system. This creates problems with peoples trust in the institutions at their core. Later on down the line when its time to get a vaccination, that mistrust creates pause even if its not justified in that case.


Think about how some POC wont call police in times of robberies or other issues because they lack trust in the policing system to not fuck up what is SUPPOSED to be equally and just public service. It doesnt mean the cops that are sent to their house will be bad cops... the cops may be fine. But that lack of trust in the core of the system makes them fear what they shouldn't. I've seen far more people in my circle say they plan to 'wait a bit' before getting vaccinated than I have seen say they wont get it at all. And when I ask them, its usually a variation of this. Just a underlying lack of trust.
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
So you didn't fucking literally say "that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard this week" in response to a post about how Black people have legitimate reasons to distrust America's relationship with its Black citizen's health?

Damn, guess my reading comprehension must be even worse than yours then.

Or you're just looking to start shit, because I very obviously was saying that the vaccine conspiracy theory is the dumbest thing I've heard this week, not black people's mistreatment at hospitals.

Quit making giant leaps, 'my guy'.
 

Izzard

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
4,606
Is this the situation with other vaccines? Are certain ethnic groups hesitant to get medical help in general?
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 9306

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
962
Don't think you want to go there with her case since it's rooted in hotep religious nut transphobic trash

Not to defend her (hotep bullshit is inexcusable and so is Transphobia), but the way that a lot of Black people even get to the point of trusting hoteps starts with how hostile the medical field is to us. It's like this: Doctors are hostile, call us stupid, say we're just imagining things, etc. Then hoteps come along, use language that speaks to Black people, praise us ("Of course the WHITE doctors don't believe us! For we are amazing, Nubian, Egyptian, blah blah blah MONARCHS so of COURSE THEIR MEDICINE doesn't work on us because they're WEAK" or some shit), and so then Black people feel more comfortable believing them. It's similar to how cults do their recruitment and other conspiracies.

Megan Thee Fury et al.

YDF1VD4.png


www.nytimes.com

Unequal treatment (Published 2007)

Harriet Washington investigates the exploitation of African-Americans in medical research.

You all can do well to spend some time in this book. It should be considered required reading for those who want to know more about what has happened to people of color in the past AND present. This will provide the requisite context for the real, on-going fears in the community regarding healthcare and unequal care for people of color. Tweet are nice, but it doesn't compare with 522 pages of straight, researched talk. Unequal treatment from healthcare professionals is not imagined; it ls real, demonstrable, and has result in the deaths and injuries of countless people of color.



Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present: Washington, Harriet A.: 9780767915472: Amazon.com: Books

Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present [Washington, Harriet A.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times...

You can also find it in your local library.


Threadmarking. Thanks!

Can someone explain to me why they would be weary of the vaccination? Are they concerned it hasn't been tested on black people or they're not being included in the process? At the moment I'm not really understanding the concern when it's being rolled out to everyone and isn't being targeted to any specific community.

It's sort of everything. They don't think the vaccine has been tested properly/long enough, they think that the vaccine could be purposely made to harm Black people, and/or they literally believe that the doctors are going to turn around and give them a different needle. Considering that all of the things I mentioned have happened before in the past...
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,157
Gentrified Brooklyn
Oh i'm sorry I didn't realize we defend anti-vax conspiracy theories here now.

Problem is these aren't conspiracy theories. The US medical establishment has literally gone out of it's way to disenfranchise these people. While misguided and outright wrong, there's a rational reason for their fear. These aren't a bunch of economic anxiety excused racist fucks mad at the darkies taking over...these are people who were dealing with forced sterilization in 2020.

www.npr.org

ICE, A Whistleblower And Forced Sterilization : 1A

"Women [in detention] are faced with this problem where they don't have [medical] choices and they don't have the liberty to go find those choices," says migrant rights advocate Michelle Brané.She also remarks about how for-profit prisons fit into the picture. "I once went to a [immigration...

So its kinda privledged to be like 'Haha, morons' when the medical establishment has failed them. Its up to that establishment to build up trust because its not like they don't want to trust in their doctors, but historically they would be a fool to.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 9306

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
962
Is this the situation with other vaccines? Are certain ethnic groups hesitant to get medical help in general?

Yep. We're more hesitant to get medical help because of bad experiences and being concerned/scared of not getting the help that we need or medical professionals not understanding/ignoring what's wrong with us. I personally don't know many Black anti-vaxxers but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a big thing considering the usual hesitancy to trust doctors.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,275
There's an ugly side to this.

I won't say who but a very close family member of mine became manic and then psychotic. She called friends and family with delusions of grandeur and talking disturbing and crazy stuff. Her best friend, who is black and is an anti vaxxer, said not to trust the doctors because of how they treat us black folk. She said it can be fixed with love and understanding. Her husband cosigned too. I flat out told her and him that's bullshit and I'll take my chances.

Fast forward another two months and my family member is diagnosed as bi polar. She needs to take meds for the rest of her life and have therapy.

No way in the world that was going to be fixed with some love, understanding and compassion. They're important but I had to trust the decades of research and training from white medical professionals. My family member has been stable for four years now. No mania, no psychosis, nothing out of the ordinary because she listened to her doctor.

So I get it. I get the distrust. But I can't afford to let that come into play when it comes to my family. In my mind, what's more important is how quickly this vaccine was put together and how effective and safe it'll be over a long period of time.
 

Deleted member 4367

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,226
Seems like a self own to me. I understand the roots of the paranoia, but it's just going to lead to more deaths in the black community. White people will continue to not be directly affected.
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
Problem is these aren't conspiracy theories.

Is there any reason to believe that they will be secretly injecting black people with different vaccines than white people?
No?
That means it is a conspiracy theory.

I am aware that ICE had some women forcibly sterilized by what hack doctors.

But there is a big difference between concentration camps and a Walgreens.

It is disturbing and no surprise that people in concentration camps will get abused.
It is not rational to think a Walgreens worker will see a black customer and grab the "black people only" vaccine from the secret drawer.