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Why isnt Snowden viewed as a hero
- Thread starter fireflame
- Start date
Feel free to prove otherwise. Preferably without using the American government's story. Which was also a nice story.
User Banned (2 weeks): Inflammatory Generalizations/Ableism.
Snowden is a Libertarian.
There are no Libertarian heroes.
Libertarianism is an ideology devoid of moral force and has adherents who are mostly comprised of asberger's and autistics whose sole concern is the misguided application of order on a chaotic universe.
That's not a slam, but an accurate description - those types of people enjoy the wishful thinking of simple and clean systems in a world filled with grey and ambiguity. It explains why most of them become computer scientists or enter technical fields and avoid biology or literature.
There are no Libertarian heroes.
Libertarianism is an ideology devoid of moral force and has adherents who are mostly comprised of asberger's and autistics whose sole concern is the misguided application of order on a chaotic universe.
That's not a slam, but an accurate description - those types of people enjoy the wishful thinking of simple and clean systems in a world filled with grey and ambiguity. It explains why most of them become computer scientists or enter technical fields and avoid biology or literature.
"It's common sense."
No evidence provided. Pure conjecture. The IC hasn't said anything of the sort.
The events surrounding his request for political asylum are well documented. So is the fact that he didn't take anything with him.
Why yourself and so many others here are unashamedly peddling conspiracy theories is slightly perplexing. You're just saying shit without backing anything up. Not even the United States government or IC has reached the same conclusion you all have. So what evidence do you have that they don't? Or is it just your "common sense", which might I suggest is nothing more than delusion.
Just what the fuck are you talking about?
Because a magazine told you to react in the most irrational and hawkish way upon the mere mention of the word regardless of context?
OP
OP
Nothing wrong with being autistic or having Asperger. Maybe what you try to say is that he was Idealist, but not autistic?
That's not addressing my point at all. Serious you seem to have totally missed it. Also how many books on russia have you read anyway?
No one's advocating for Russia and the favt that you can't see this, but need to frame it that way is a big part of the issue with discourse here.
You weren't being an asshole, chief. We're just having a conversation. You're good people. 🤗
Enough to know that it's being run like the mob. I recommend Winter is Coming.
All of them are the same when it comes to the image of the U.S, lol. Have you ever seen ABC, NBC, CNN, and MSNBC's reporting regarding conflicts the U.S are involved in? What about when Trump launched air strikes in Syria in 2017? Did you see the shit show of MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC and their lauding of Trump doing it? Why do you think the U.S media when it reports on Yemen doesn't even mention that the U.S itself is the one enforcing the blockade with its own fucking warships? The media rallies around the country when it comes to projecting U.S image to the rest of the world. The U.S media are way far up their asses in nationalism because most Americans are far up their asses in nationalism. I have never seen U.S media criticise elements of the government that are not related to political lines (i.e things that persist among administrations, things parties agree on), like what Snowden exposed. It's the same reason why coverage of Palestine and Israel are the same across the media, because they fall in line with what is ideologically agreed up across the two parties. Fox barely used the spying scandal as a political tool to attack the Obama administration, which says a lot already, because it has nothing to do with Obama's administration specifically. The U.S both the government and media have a very bad history with whisteblowers, it's not some unknown territory.
Again, it doesn't matter that Snowden left the country, the media still did nothing about the crimes he exposed, they focused squarely on him, which is irrelevant, and the fact that nobody responsible for the crimes of the government has faced or will ever face the law either, all of this is irrelevant of whether he left the country or not.
I have in fact been diagnosed with mild, extremely high-functioning autism. Not all autistics are libertarians, but every libertarian I know personally is one. Ron Paul is most certainly on the spectrum.
Here in Europe it was generally seen as a positive from what I remember. However, that in itself might be too broad.
I agree, once you look at the work that Snowden did to help elect Trump, it does become less surprising.
Connecting Snowden to Russian trolls is a nth level leap based on nothing but your own presumptions.
Snowden was probably the single biggest event you can point to for the rapid increase in TLS and E2E encryption to be used on the internet, so we can thank him for that.
I've no clue about his intensions but the way he handled it by dumping such large amount of data unsifted endangered a lot of people in the IC and important operations, so for that I don't think he deserves the title 'hero'.
I've no clue about his intensions but the way he handled it by dumping such large amount of data unsifted endangered a lot of people in the IC and important operations, so for that I don't think he deserves the title 'hero'.
If you don't think the book and the entire library would been thrown at Snowden had he turned himself in, you're deluding yourself. He probably would've quietly disappeared, just like how the media quietly brush anything controversial under a rug.
It would have been a circus for the ages. He would have been raked over the coals to hell and back.
Then you're a fool. More likely you simply have no idea what you'd do.
https://venturebeat.com/2014/05/22/...den-is-cooperating-with-russian-intelligence/
What if the Russians admitted it?
The discourse here is stunning. He's a defector, Hunt for Red October in reverse.
'Unsifted' is that the case? I believe he worked with a ton of news outlets/journalists who combed through it all before releasing the data. That's obviously not to say that it was all information the public needed to know but it's still far from 'unsifted' like most the Manning leak.
What you mean to say is that a former KGB general has "admitted" to it despite not being any position to know whether he took or provided anything to the Chinese or Russian state.
Again, there isn't any evidence that he has. It is well documented that he didn't.
Don't you think if this was a fact, the US state would shout it from the rooftops? Probably no, because reasons.
There's not much doubt in my mind that they've force him to cooperate to some degree. This is Putin.
By 'the russians', do you mean a dude that has been living in the US for over 30 years, gave up intelligence of his own to the American government and has been an American citizen for over 15 years? Because i don't see how this guy represents the Russians or why his words are any more credible than Snowden's. Or how he has any knowledge of what the FSB is doing currently.
But even if we were to assume good faith and magical knowledge, it has nothing to do with whether Snowden intended to go to and stay in Russia or whether he was stranded there and had to make do. Which was my point in the first place, if you follow that exchange.
Yeah, unsifted is a bit hyperbolic. Certainly not thorough enough those - enough information was released that could tie individual members of the IC to their work.
I'll get my analysis from academics and academic presses not pop history/ social sciences from chess players and some press I've never heard of.
Moreover you've again totally missed the point somehow. No one is advocating for Russia. The world is not some Hegelian conflict between America and Russia.
I don't think he's a hero, and I don't think he's a villain (based on the leak alone. ) I think a hero would do the right thing, do it prudently, and then accept the consequences. Knowing that accepting the consequences for his actions is part of the sacrifice, and to show his conviction that what he did was righteous. By running, I feel as though he has a sense of guilt or entitlement. And we don't really know what kind of asset he currently is or has been within Russia. History will judge him for the entirety of his actions.
Why this fixation on suffering? That's stupid.
Again, Liberalism was basically founded by someone who did this.
Lol one of the KGBs most respected former officers with multiple sources still inside Russian intel is not in a position to know. Ok.
What should be clear from this thread is the American state could do pretty much anything and as long as you frame it as anti-russia its populace will cheer it on.
Heh history is often a mishmash of facts and accepted propaganda. At least the one widely disseminated. He's been branded a traitor by nationalistic interests and that assessment will live on in parts of the collective memory, irregardless of the facts.
Don't forget that Obama had to also be in office at the time and he would have totes pardoned Snowden if he just hadn't run.
Again, not a single one of you has provided evidence for your assertions. This is the best you've got. Let me repeat this to you, not even your own state peddles the bullshit you do.
Basically.
I've said it multiple times. Your go to is framing this as just Russia vs US which is nonsense.
I'm failing to see how pointing out that book is hardly authoritative is rude. It's especially not rude given that earlier you told me to read a book and then offer that as your expert advice.
You can't posture as a dismissive expert and then offer trite like that up.
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It's not about suffering, it's about obeying the law; the part we should all agree on that no one is above it. And not potentially turning yourself into a puppet for an adversarial government for the sake of some "liberty." Keep in mind there are those who have sacrificed their very lives for this country only to be forgotten time, let alone be called heroes.