Why isn't online voting a thing?

[Fudgepuppy]

Just have one vote tied to each SSN, that you have to verify using an online authenticator.

In Sweden, we have BankID, which has become the de-facto way to sign and agree to terms online. You can only request a BankID from your online bank, it's tied to your SSN and device (an app you can install on iOS and Android), and for every device you want to add it to, for example if you want to add your BankID to a new phone, you have to go to the online banking website and verify it. I have a small banking authenticator that's tied to my bank account that I have to use whenever I approve adding BankID to any new device, so there are several layers to verify it's you.

1. You can only get the banking device from your bank if you go there and confirm your bank account with your ID. Tied to the device, is a PIN code you select.
2. You can only order a BankID to your device by logging in on your online bank, with the help of the banking device you got.
3. When confirming the order, you have to use the banking device and your PIN to confirm it.
4. Once the BankID has been installed and verified, you need to select a different 6 digit PIN code that you use whenever you confirm anything.

You can also get a separate BankID on "card" that's a small electronic device you use to verify terms whenever it registers you using your SSN for any service.

I file my taxes with this. I just open the IRS's bank, check if their estimate is correct (it always is since I don't have to manually report anything separately), I click on agree, enter my SSN, my BankID app opens, I enter my PIN code and verify that the estimate is correct, click on agree, and done!

The same system could be used for online voting, with less risks for fraud than when voting in person.

 

[Mivey]

 

[johan]

I would expect the absolute best of the best hackers would try and hack it immediately

 

[Deleted member 2809]

Electronic voting is already garbage
Just put voting on week-ends

 

[John Caboose]

As someone with a Master's Degree in this kind of stuff, it is indeed terrifying and will weaken the resiliance of the voting system against attacks and would also make it much easier to identify what a person voted.

Paper ballots and manual counting should absolutely not be replaced.

 

[Deleted member 11479]

But it is.

 

[Eumi]

Whilst there are concerns, the real reason is those in power don't want it to be easy to vote, since often times they rely on people who might be against them being those without the means to vote.

That's why the UK just made it even harder. Because ease of voting is not something the government want. Get people in charge who might benefit from easier voting and you'll start to see a push towards it.

 

[PRed]

Cashless systems are one way to remove anonymity and supplement a nation-wide surveillance web.

Online voting is another.

 

[Robin64]

This video is 5 years old now, but still...

 

[Jegriva]

Let's keep the lesser of evils. Piece of papers, unerasable pencils, and manual counting.

 

[Deleted member 15428]

Just have one vote tied to each SSN, that you have to verify using an online authenticator.

In Sweden, we have BankID, which has become the de-facto way to sign and agree to terms online. You can only request a BankID from your online bank, it's tied to your SSN and device (an app you can install on iOS and Android), and for every device you want to add it to, for example if you want to add your BankID to a new phone, you have to go to the online banking website and verify it. I have a small banking authenticator that's tied to my bank account that I have to use whenever I approve adding BankID to any new device, so there are several layers to verify it's you.

1. You can only get the banking device from your bank if you go there and confirm your bank account with your ID. Tied to the device, is a PIN code you select.
2. You can only order a BankID to your device by logging in on your online bank, with the help of the banking device you got.
3. When confirming the order, you have to use the banking device and your PIN to confirm it.
4. Once the BankID has been installed and verified, you need to select a different 6 digit PIN code that you use whenever you confirm anything.

You can also get a separate BankID on "card" that's a small electronic device you use to verify terms whenever it registers you using your SSN for any service.

I file my taxes with this. I just open the IRS's bank, check if their estimate is correct (it always is since I don't have to manually report anything separately), I click on agree, enter my SSN, my BankID app opens, I enter my PIN code and verify that the estimate is correct, click on agree, and done!

The same system could be used for online voting, with less risks for fraud than when voting in person.

Click to shrink...

Good luck explaining that to my parents

 

[Moosichu]

Because it would be a terrible idea. The electronic voting booths in the US really scare me already.

 

[jon bones]

Click to shrink...

wow as a dev, this is... accurate

 

[sweetmini]

We already know the israeli private hacking groups could infect whomever they wanted with a missed phonecall or message... if voting is done through the phone or on a tablet , similar hacking groups could vote on one's behalf.
Computers are a little less target-able, but still not a huge feat for a government-backed hacking group to introduce a backdoor through ingenious means.

The rest should be taken under the light that i live in a country where voting is done on non-working days.

I am all for simplification of processes -when long procedures are shortened and their cost reduced-... but voting is getting our bottom up (or rolling) and go vote, it is involving. And involvement means we care. If voting is as simple and straightforward as checking out a cart on a famous shopping site, then we become less involved because it takes seconds, and we are much closer and more susceptible to whatever we've seen pushed to us on the screens seconds before, we don't have the way to the voting chamber to reflect on our choice one last time.

Anyway, even if online votes happen, as long as physical is still available, i'll get up my chair and go vote, or if i am abroad go post my vote through the post office to my embassy or consulate. That's my duty and the involvement i want to have for myself.

 

[TheBrokenMan]

No matter what you do, someone will digitally cheat the system and it could be days or weeks or months before it is discovered.

At least no one can cheat physically going to the voting booth and marking yourself as voted. Electronically you can erase the marking and come back to vote dozens of times once you figure out a security flaw.

I am okay with e-voting for non essential stuff like competitions or such, but when it comes to my government or people who will decide my 4 years, I don't mind going through the trouble of being physically there to make sure my vote is in the ballot.

 

[Zombegoast]

It's a very bad idea because not everyone has access to the internet.

That's just scratching the surface.

 

[Gabe]

Click to shrink...

The only right answer.

 

[Ravensmash]

This video is 5 years old now, but still...

Click to shrink...

Damn, came to pretty much reference this.

So I'll just say, the voting system that we have in the UK makes it extremely difficult for someone/something to commit widespread fraud.

Basically, if it ain't broke then don't fix it.

Or at least don't add something which makes it incredibly more likely to break it.

 

[caliph95]

Machine booths are already unreliable and easy to screw with

Internet is just asking for elections to get fucked with

 

[CrazyAndy]

Click to shrink...

This is amazing.

 

[nekkid]

Because it would make it too easy for young people to vote?

 

[digit_zero]

Click to shrink...

And we're done here.

 

[captainmal01]

Because it would make it too easy for young people to vote?

Click to shrink...

Because it would destroy any sense of anonymity/security/trust in the whole voting process. It would be impossible to create any semblance of a reliable and secure online voting system.

 

[skeezx]

in theory i'm down with it, risks and all. in practice we're like 200 years away from that (in the US). and i'm not being facetious

 

[Jasup]

Because it would make it too easy for young people to vote?

Click to shrink...

Well this is the point we have to make a decision about our priorities in elections. Should voting be easier or safer, you can only pick one.

 

[Dinskugga]

Because its really easy to do things like this

Friend one : i dont want to vote
Friend two : i can vote for you
Friend one : okay
Friend two : log into your vote side with your online ID
Friend one : ok
Friend two : sweet!!!

And other things. Like doing this by force and under threat.

 

[caliph95]

Because it would make it too easy for young people to vote?

Click to shrink...

It's hard enough to make sure that machine booths aren't getting fucked with and John Oliver did an episode on how easy it is

Internet would be worse

 

[Krakatoa]

I Don't understand all this hacking crap. The lottery is online etc.

If the online voting is transparent and you can see your results then it would be impossible to tamper. If a change was made you'd be notified etc.

All seems like scare tactics to me.

 

[Just_a_Mouse]

Because it would make it too easy for young people to vote?

Click to shrink...

This is way closer to the truth than many would like to admit.

 

[efr]

Missed opportunity to put a poll in OP

 

[efr]

I Don't understand all this hacking crap. The lottery is online etc.

If the online voting is transparent and you can see your results then it would be impossible to tamper. If a change was made you'd be notified etc.

All seems like scare tactics to me.

Click to shrink...

Lottery isnt chosen by digital numbers. Physical balls are taken out

 

[Prine]

It's so obvious, the risk of manipulation and fraud goes up exponentially with digital votes. Shocked that this is being asked. Putin would love you.

 

[Tygre]

That's why the UK just made it even harder. Because ease of voting is not something the government want. Get people in charge who might benefit from easier voting and you'll start to see a push towards it.

Click to shrink...

There have been no recent changes to the voting or voter registration systems in the UK.

Voting is no harder now in the UK than at any recent election, and claiming otherwise is a dangerous and despicable form of voter suppression.

If you live in the UK please register to vote, and apply for a postal vote if you require one:

Register to vote

Get on the electoral register so you can vote in elections and referendums.

www.gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-a-postal-vote

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

Because it would make it too easy for young people to vote?

Click to shrink...

They'll still not vote unless they get to vote thru Instagram or Tiktok. I'm from a state with mail-in ballots and over two-thirds of the population thought that was too much work.

 

[Corrie1960]

We had e voting in Ireland years ago and I think our stupid country spent 40 million euro on it and they used them

 

[cyba89]

Well this is the point we have to make a decision about our priorities in elections. Should voting be easier or safer, you can only pick one.

Click to shrink...

At least here in Germany it's already incredibly easy to vote (either via postal vote or paper ballot), so I take the safe method.
I don't even know why online voting would be easier than those already established methods. The description in the OP sounds pretty complicated.

 

[Krakatoa]

Lottery isnt chosen by digital numbers. Physical balls are taken out

Click to shrink...

Nor is voting. You are picking a candidate(s)

 

[Paertan]

ust have one vote tied to each SSN, that you have to verify using an online authenticator.

In Sweden, we have BankID, which has become the de-facto way to sign and agree to terms online.

Click to shrink...

You mention the problem. "Tied to each SSN". Means trackable. Not anonymous voting. You could make a system that does not track it. But how do you guarantee it so that everyone trusts it?

Also it can be hacked.

 

[Geoff]

What/s hard about the current method of voting? Why does it need to change?

 

[efr]

Nor is voting. You are picking a candidate(s)

Click to shrink...

Are you arguing with yourself now?
Digital voting has already been hacked.
You cant hack a manual machine that isnt connected to anything but electricity to choose lottery balls.

 

[Aureon]

Pick one:
Decently resilient
Non-identifiable

That's why not.
Also, Randall is the best of us as ever.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

Seems to me that if making it easier to vote is the goal, there are already several good options that exist that dont make us more susceptible to hacking.

Like having voting on weekends, and longer voting hours. Which illustrates that only half the issue is technological. The other half is that the GOP reeeeeally wants as few people voting as possible.

 

[Krakatoa]

Are you arguing with yourself now?
Digital voting has already been hacked.
You cant hack a manual machine that isnt connected to anything but electricity to choose lottery balls.

Click to shrink...

I'm talking about the terminals that are used the create the tickets. They could be hacked.

Also, don't we love the environment? If so then fuck paper voting.

 

[John Caboose]

What/s hard about the current method of voting? Why does it need to change?

Click to shrink...

In Sweden? Nothing. It doesn't.

However we might need to update how we print our ballots. Right now we print hundreds of millions of unused ones. We shouldn't need to do that. The finns have a more efficient way we could be inspired by.

In Sweden we print (multiple versions/pages of) ballots for every single party. But in Finland they have a list and you just write down a different number on your ballot instead of picking a different ballot.

 

[efr]

I'm talking about the terminals that are used the create the tickets. They could be hacked.

Also, don't we love the environment? If so then fuck paper voting.

Click to shrink...

You're all over the place.

The terminals for lotteries have been hacked. The difference is that no computer is picking 5 numbers that a person 30 miles away is manually selecting. You cant change your lottery ticket after you pay. They shut it off before the drawing.

voting machines are hacked and change results while the vote count is going on. You really should look into this more.

 

[Kthulhu]

If voting is as simple and straightforward as checking out a cart on a famous shopping site, then we become less involved because it takes seconds, and we are much closer and more susceptible to whatever we've seen pushed to us on the screens seconds before, we don't have the way to the voting chamber to reflect on our choice one last time.

Click to shrink...

I don't know what country you're from but in the US most voting locations (at least in my state) will be plastered with campaign ads and campaign staff will be standing outside the voting area trying to sway you to various causes. So it's not like in person voting is free from this.

 

[Eumi]

There have been no recent changes to the voting or voter registration systems in the UK.

Voting is no harder now in the UK than at any recent election, and claiming otherwise is a dangerous and despicable form of voter suppression.

If you live in the UK please register to vote, and apply for a postal vote if you require one:

Register to vote

Get on the electoral register so you can vote in elections and referendums.

www.gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-a-postal-vote

Click to shrink...

Did they not just announce ID checks?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ns-speech-elections-polling-a9154936.html?amp

They won't be in effect for this election as far as I'm aware, but they're planned. Don't accuse me of voter suppression when I'm literally taking issue with actual, real voter suppression from people with the power to actually do so.

 

[TheGhost]

Yeaaaah I wouldn't trust the outcome of online voting at all

 

[CielYoshi]

No, it is a very bad idea. With even the most current cryptographic hardware and algorithms, you're either forced to rescind voter's anonymity to get secure results, or give up secure results to mantain anonymity.

 

[Manmademan]

Are you arguing with yourself now?
Digital voting has already been hacked.
You cant hack a manual machine that isnt connected to anything but electricity to choose lottery balls.

Click to shrink...

Not to mention that theres a lot of talk about "hacking" but the simplest way to fuck an online elections is to simply DDOS the servers on the day of, rendering them unreachable and cutting off the possibility of voting.

Since Democrats and republicans live in different areas, targeting heavily blue areas while leaving "red" ones alone and screwing the election.

Even extremely robust organizations like Amazon, Netflix, twitter etc get taken down by attacks like these. Municipal systems run by cities, counties, and states have no shot at standing up to targeted attacks by foreign actors who REALLY want to interfere, and we already know these foreign actors are attempting this.