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KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,837
Yeah I actually think when it comes to vegetables one of the biggest problems is actually portion size in the usa. If someone buys a giant lettuce for example, they basically have to eat it pretty quickly or take steps to stop it going bad and wasting a bunch of it.

Everything seems to have to be over the top big from healthy stuff all the way to sizes of chip bags etc, and it's a weird thing for me as an outsider because it seems like the price is being raised for a bigger amount of stuff but in the end if people aren't actually eating it before it goes bad then no wonder people can't afford to eat that stuff. It's a lot easier to keep a bunch of bad food in the house that lasts months or years than to be buying huge ass vegetables and the like that just ends up being wasted money

Hell even when I go to restaurants with the in laws and my wife when I visit I usually end up ordering a child's portion for meals because I'd rather have 1/2 or 1/3rd the portion at a place and pay a price thats actually suitable for the amount I'm going to eat than buy a huge meal that's way too much food for me to eat in one sitting and end up taking it home with us. I don't generally reheat meals from places we've eaten at anyway so it's just a waste.
You absolutely hit on a great point here as well. Like, when I buy Spinach leaves at the store, the smallest amount I can get is a massive plastic box. Even if I add Spinach to all of my meals every day, I can barely go through half of that box before it spoils 4 or 5 days later. I like to throw in Spinach when I make pasta, or on a sandwich, but I hesitate to buy it because I know I'll throw away at least half of it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
21,514
You absolutely hit on a great point here as well. Like, when I buy Spinach leaves at the store, the smallest amount I can get is a massive plastic box. Even if I add Spinach to all of my meals every day, I can barely go through half of that box before it spoils 4 or 5 days later. I like to throw in Spinach when I make pasta, or on a sandwich, but I hesitate to buy it because I know I'll throw away at least half of it.
I can buy a bundle of spinach for $1.79, but I generally just use frozen spinach since it's fine and lasts for a long time. A 12 ounce bag is $1.29.
I tried a couple times to buy lettuce at Costco, but there's no way I can get through that massive amount without half of it going to waste. By and large you need a big family with no picky eaters to get through produce from there.
 

John Harker

Knows things...
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,346
Santa Destroy
I prefer organic, natural foods, and what we tend to buy in our household.
I don't mind the price per se, though these options are always more 'expensive' than their non organic counterparts.

That said, I'm in my 30s and I don't really know how to cook and I utterly hate doing it.

I haven't been to a 'fast food' place in decades and It's not like we're eating microwave frozen dinners, but it definitely is a challenge.
I do feel we over-use Trader Joe's pre-cooked meals :(. Those can't be that healthy, though there appears to be the aura it is.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072

Cbrun44

Member
It's a lie, unless you live in a food desert. Healthy food is inexpensive. Produce, especially that which is in season, is relatively cheap. So are bags of brown rice and beans along with other staples.
Fast food is way more expensive than making a healthy meal from scratch. So is all the frozen food crap at the grocery stores. And so on.
Healthy food doesn't equal expensive.

Agree with all this 100%.
 

loco

Member
Jan 6, 2021
5,502
I can't remember what show it was but the host was a British guy that would take a poor minority person to the grocery store and ask them what they would buy with $200. The lady ended up buying a ton of processed food like kraft dinners and canned chef boyardee. The host was shaking his head in dismay and then proceeded to whitesplain the person through the produce section and showed them how they could spend the money better on healthy food. The lady ended up with a ton of perishable items like lettuce, tomatoes and fruits. I remember her telling him " but I need this to last like 3 weeks. This will last the week if I'm lucky". Looking back the show was kinda racist. Anyone remember this show? Like from 10 years ago.
 

hobblygobbly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,561
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
I can't remember what show it was but the host was a British guy that would take a poor minority person to the grocery store and ask them what they would buy with $200. The lady ended up buying a ton of processed food like kraft dinners and canned chef boyardee. The host was shaking his head in dismay and then proceeded to whitesplain the person through the produce section and showed them how they could spend the money better on healthy food. The lady ended up with a ton of perishable items like lettuce, tomatoes and fruits. I remember her telling him " but I need this to last like 3 weeks. This will last the week if I'm lucky". Looking back the show was kinda racist. Anyone remember this show? Like from 10 years ago.
i dont know the show or particular situation you are talking about, but is that normal in USA to go grocery shopping once every 3 weeks/a month?

in germany typically we buy less food but go usually twice or once a week. personally I go twice a week (me once, and SO second time)

i don't know how it's possible to buy so much for for 3 weeks/a month, no one does that here or in any where in europe i've seen, because yes of course, this food is perishable. that's why we buy less food at time but fresh and go more often. why the need to buy food to last so long?
 

Zojirushi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,293
I started buying higher quality food and the biggest difference in terms of price is going organic/bio on animal protein sources which I understand. It's more of an ethical choice than strictly healthy vs. unhealthy but still it does make my weekly grocery shopping considerably more expensive (and by that I mean like double at least lol)
 

BasilZero

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,343
Omni
This. Bags of frozen veggies, brown rice, etc, are generally pretty cheap. Throw it in the microwave and it's done. Canned black beans, lentils, etc, are also cheap. Oatmeal, bananas, apples, sweet potatoes....all cheap.

The reality is that most people just don't want to eat healthy. Look at how many affluent people are obese or overweight. They'd rather check out the new chicken sandwich at Popeyes than have some brown rice and mixed veggies at home. That's really all it comes down to.

Pretty much though it depends where you look and live as far as vegetable and fruit prices

I stopped buying all the junk and loving all fresh veggies and fruits
 

TuneTuneGuy

Member
Mar 11, 2020
529
Cost, quality, ease to consume. You can't get all three without having someone else do the cooking.
I remember when I cooked all three meals and I spent 60 dollars on food in a month including the bulk pantry items, I was unemployed to do it,
 

Horp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,708
"Healthy food" doesn't mean organic, locally sourced, market fresh veggies. That stuff is expensive af. And yes, it's prob the best for you too, but the choice isn't between that and McD cheeseburgers.
Rice, frozen vegetables, beans. Staple, cheap veggies like onions etc… this is healthy food, but not expensive.
 
Oct 27, 2017
21,514
I can't remember what show it was but the host was a British guy that would take a poor minority person to the grocery store and ask them what they would buy with $200. The lady ended up buying a ton of processed food like kraft dinners and canned chef boyardee. The host was shaking his head in dismay and then proceeded to whitesplain the person through the produce section and showed them how they could spend the money better on healthy food. The lady ended up with a ton of perishable items like lettuce, tomatoes and fruits. I remember her telling him " but I need this to last like 3 weeks. This will last the week if I'm lucky". Looking back the show was kinda racist. Anyone remember this show? Like from 10 years ago.
Never heard of it, but the host definitely did her dirty. You can't go spending that kind of money in one go without a lot of the produce going to waste. At least he could have tried to get her to buy frozen vegetables, if she has the freezer space for it.
I don't even remotely know what I would do with $200 at the grocery store in a single visit. I guess we're eating a bucket of crab legs with that kind of grocery money.
 

StormSolus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
32
Again, your response is defensive, there is no attack happening, were not judging anybody for being obese, the majority of Americans are obese, were not arguing the fact that our society is built to make people obese because theres nobody in their right mind that can argue against it.

All were saying is that it IS possible to eat healthier, but everytime we do people respond acting like everyone in america is in a food desert and it takes 2 hours a day to cook a proper meal, thats not based on reality.

You seem to want people to know its ok to be obese because its out of their control, and the notion that it isnt out of their control is some kind of attack on them, it isnt.

Telling people that you have no choice but to be obese is incredibly unhelpful and will do nothing but discourage people from even trying.If you see someone fat shaming i will be right there with you telling that person to piss off, i have no tolerance for that behavior.

I apologize if my post comes across as defensive, it's not intended to be. And I certainly don't mean to wave it off as though it is "ok" to obese or that there is nothing that can be done about it. Just the opposite, in fact. Obesity is a health crisis in the US and not enough is being done to curb the problem. But part of the solution is identifying the cause and addressing it. There are those out there who shrug their shoulders and say "just eat better" as though that is all it takes, even as the obesity rate rises to > 40% of the population, which is unhelpful and patronizing (and again, I don't mean to accuse you of this).

I will disagree that food deserts are not based on reality though. Roughly 13% of the population in the US is considered to be in a low-access area. It is much more common than I think a lot of people realize.

Of course there are people out there who simply don't take the personal responsibility to improve their lifestyle, and that needs to be addressed too. But the health crisis related to unhealthy eating is much more than just that.
 

loco

Member
Jan 6, 2021
5,502
Never heard of it, but the host definitely did her dirty. You can't go spending that kind of money in one go without a lot of the produce going to waste. At least he could have tried to get her to buy frozen vegetables, if she has the freezer space for it.
I don't even remotely know what I would do with $200 at the grocery store in a single visit. I guess we're eating a bucket of crab legs with that kind of grocery money.
It supposed to feed her entire family.
 

loco

Member
Jan 6, 2021
5,502
i dont know the show or particular situation you are talking about, but is that normal in USA to go grocery shopping once every 3 weeks/a month?

in germany typically we buy less food but go usually twice or once a week. personally I go twice a week (me once, and SO second time)

i don't know how it's possible to buy so much for for 3 weeks/a month, no one does that here or in any where in europe i've seen, because yes of course, this food is perishable. that's why we buy less food at time but fresh and go more often. why the need to buy food to last so long?
My wife grew up on welfare so her mom would only shop once a month. When you're poor in the states or Canada without a job it's buy as much as you can with your food budget. Rinse and repeat when the next welfare / child tax check comes through.
 

Skyscourge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2020
1,854
Healthy food IS cheap. The regular groceries you buy are the healthiest things you can eat. Meat, fruit and veggies, bread. Frozen stuff works too. The problem is that people don't want to cook, or they use too much sugar/salt/oil when they do cook.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
Just an anecdote for this thread. I was making my online grocery order today (for pickup tomorrow).

$5.99 USD gets you either 4 lbs of navel oranges or a 24-pack of M&M cookies (good ones from the bakery).
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,648
Unhealthy food is mass produced, filled with additives and preservatives. It keeps the price down and can be bought in bulk and stored

Healthy food tends to be farmed or bought in lower quantities, has a limited shelf life and, unless you have a freezer, it's hard to store.

The fact is, people who are well off, can afford to buy food daily, if needs be, because it will be used that same day and can be done on a whim.

Poor people have to budget for the week, the month, whatever and, thus, are forced to buy in bulk with the stuff that will last longer.

Some poorer people have obviously figured out that there's ways to get around this, but it's not realistic for everyone.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
Not all healthy foods perish quickly. You're ignoring entire food groups like grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds. These keep for as long as the ultra processed foods.
 

hodayathink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,051
Trust me, I'm an expert; I've been grocery shopping for decades. Lmao. Who would've known this thread would be unintentionally hilarious.

Yeah, because he didn't pull the "I'm an expert" card on me. I'm not an expert, but I know what things cost on a week to week basis because I'm looking at those prices 5 days a week at minimum.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,063
Phoenix, AZ
Looking at a lot of the replies to this thread, I feel like I can finally offload some things.
  • Kitchen equipment is expensive and finicky
    • Non-stick equipment wears out fast and requires constant replacement every 6-12mo, yet it's always the cheapest option. Basically buying a hardware subscription. Steel is more expensive. Carbon steel, more expensive. Aluminium/copper, easily in the $50-100+ range. Cast iron cookware is cheap but notoriously difficult.
    • I see a lot of silicone equipment being sold cheap, but they also wear out fast. A $3 silicone spatula is not the same as a $3 wood or bamboo spatula. A lot of tools also don't work on non-stick surfaces.
    • Cheap kitchen knives don't come with a whetstone or a lesson on sharpening. The modern trend of japanese knives doesn't help this, since japanese knives are difficult to sharpen correctly.
    • A lot of dodgy kitchen equipment is sold cheap but don't use food grade materials. For example, cheap strainers have a chrome plating and will rust fast. Noone should need to cook with rusty tools.
    • Cheap bowls/plates are shit, heavy (stoneware being trendy is truly horrid), hard to hand wash, and have very thin coatings. Prone to cracking and chipping too.
    • Cheap dutch pots are some of the worst equipment I've had the pleasure of using. Good heavy pots have frightening price tags.
    • A shit oven is worse than not having an oven. Everything coming out either burnt or under=cooked with severe cold/hot spots can seriously turn off an amateur cook.
    • A kitchen scale isn't a necessity until it becomes one, and inaccurate kitchen scales are way too common. A good kitchen scale is, again, very easily $50+
    • Dessert-making/baking is a serious flex on what tools you have on hand. An electric hand mixer, whisks and scrapers and correctly sized baking/setting dishes. A $2 bag of fruit and some flour/butter/sugar is nothing compared to the $100+ worth of equipment I need to use to turn that fruit into tart filling.
  • Culinary education not being a priority in schools.
    • Steel (especially carbon steel) equipment is finicky to use, requires a surprising amount of cooking oil, and can warp at high temperatures. But free pot-and-pan handling instructions are mostly limited to youtube videos.
    • A $15 nonstick pan doesn't come with a lesson on how to care for that very delicate non-stick surface.
    • Sharpening knives requires experience and patience and a whetstone. And a good whetstone can run $30-50+.. more costs.
    • Ingredient substitutions and replacements are hardly a priority in most recipes. It's assumed knowledge, but it really isn't.
  • Most online recipes are shit. Wrong temperatures, vague instructions, wrong measurements, weirdly specific ingredients.
Unhealthy food is not cheap. Cooking unhealthy food is easy and fast and doesn't require lessons on how to use a kitchen or a sharp knife/grater I don't have.

I'm convinced that kitchen equipment manufacturers are in the business of selling garbage to poorer customers because they think that poorer people just don't know better. Banking on people's ignorance. This should not be a thing, but it is and it is infuriating.

What are you doing to your non-stick equipment where it wears out so fast? I've been using the same non-stick pans for like a decade, and I just wash that shit with dish soap and a sponge. If there's something you have to do to take care of it then I've never done it.

Also, one piece plastic spatulas are affordable and last a long time. I've never had to replace one. Honestly better than anything silicone.

Ingredient amounts don't have to be perfect. A cheap analog scale will probably be close enough, and will last a really long time. Though I don't use a kitchen scale tbh, so I don't know how well they compare to a digital one.

A lot of what you listed seems over the top tbh. While I'm sure I'm using sub-par cooking equipment, added with the fact I don't make much variety, your list is like creating the perfect kitchen which most people don't have anyway. I mean I think I've sharpened a kitchen knife once or twice, and some of mine are dull, but they still do the job. As long as what you have works, then you should be good.

Sure online instructions aren't perfect, but you learn through trial and error, like all things in life. No one is good at cooking at first. I'm not even good at cooking. I manage make everything I cook with very few kitchen items, and it doesn't always turn out perfect, but its still good enough.

i dont know the show or particular situation you are talking about, but is that normal in USA to go grocery shopping once every 3 weeks/a month?

in germany typically we buy less food but go usually twice or once a week. personally I go twice a week (me once, and SO second time)

i don't know how it's possible to buy so much for for 3 weeks/a month, no one does that here or in any where in europe i've seen, because yes of course, this food is perishable. that's why we buy less food at time but fresh and go more often. why the need to buy food to last so long?

Some people do I assume. Me and my dad go once every 10 days or so, and even then don't really buy that much. Maybe 15 - 20 items. But we also go to Costco once every other week as well.

But while I'm at the store I see carts packed to the top, so I assume they're buying multiple weeks of food at a time. Either that or they live in a home with like 12 other people.
 
Last edited:

Radd Redd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,999
Frozen veggies are still cheap as long as you have a freezer. Healthy and last a long time. Cheaper than a lot of junk food. Pair it up with some cheap meats on sale or clearance and freeze them as well. It's what I've been doing for years. I mean rice and pasta is affordable anyway and can keep for a long time.
 

UsefulSpoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
262
What are you doing to your non-stick equipment where it wears out so fast? I've been using the same non-stick pans for like a decade, and I just wash that shit with dish soap and a sponge. If there's something you have to do to take care of it then I've never done it.

Also, one piece plastic spatulas are affordable and last a long time. I've never had to replace one. Honestly better than anything silicone.

Ingredient amounts don't have to be perfect. A cheap analog scale will probably be close enough, and will last a really long time. Though I don't use a kitchen scale tbh, so I don't know how well they compare to a digital one.

A lot of what you listed seems over the top tbh. While I'm sure I'm using sub-par cooking equipment, added with the fact I don't make much variety, your list is like creating the perfect kitchen which most people don't have anyway. I mean I think I've sharpened a kitchen knife once or twice, and some of mine are dull, but they still do the job. As long as what you have works, then you should be good.

Sure online instructions aren't perfect, but you learn through trial and error, like all things in life. No one is good at cooking at first. I'm not even good at cooking. I manage make everything I cook with very few kitchen items, and it doesn't always turn out perfect, but its still good enough.

Yeah, you can pick up a bunch of kitchenware and such at a thrift store for a faction of the price. Buying new is a fool's game.
 

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,935
What are you doing to your non-stick equipment where it wears out so fast? I've been using the same non-stick pans for like a decade, and I just wash that shit with dish soap and a sponge. If there's something you have to do to take care of it then I've never done it.

Also, one piece plastic spatulas are affordable and last a long time. I've never had to replace one. Honestly better than anything silicone.

Ingredient amounts don't have to be perfect. A cheap analog scale will probably be close enough, and will last a really long time. Though I don't use a kitchen scale tbh, so I don't know how well they compare to a digital one.

A lot of what you listed seems over the top tbh. While I'm sure I'm using sub-par cooking equipment, added with the fact I don't make much variety, your list is like creating the perfect kitchen which most people don't have anyway. I mean I think I've sharpened a kitchen knife once or twice, and some of mine are dull, but they still do the job. As long as what you have works, then you should be good.

Sure online instructions aren't perfect, but you learn through trial and error, like all things in life. No one is good at cooking at first. I'm not even good at cooking. I manage make everything I cook with very few kitchen items, and it doesn't always turn out perfect, but its still good enough.

thanks for saying all this so I didn't have to haha. That post sounded like someone trying to spec out a kitchen as if they're a chef or something......it's a home with a kitchen. Get some pans, some nylon plastic based cheap utensils and experiment with food you know you like. You don't have to measure anything or weigh shit, just wing it. Trial and error is the best way to learn and it isn't that hard.
 
Oct 27, 2017
21,514
Unhealthy food is mass produced, filled with additives and preservatives. It keeps the price down and can be bought in bulk and stored

Healthy food tends to be farmed or bought in lower quantities, has a limited shelf life and, unless you have a freezer, it's hard to store.

The fact is, people who are well off, can afford to buy food daily, if needs be, because it will be used that same day and can be done on a whim.

Poor people have to budget for the week, the month, whatever and, thus, are forced to buy in bulk with the stuff that will last longer.

Some poorer people have obviously figured out that there's ways to get around this, but it's not realistic for everyone.
If you're on food stamps, there's nothing making you buy in bulk at the beginning of the month. If you get $100 a month or whatever amount, nothing is stopping you from spending $25 a week.
Maybe it's different in other states (probably is), but in Washington you get a card and spend the money in whatever way suits you throughout the course of the month on food that qualifies (which is basically anything that isn't warm/hot, booze and so forth).
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
My wife grew up on welfare so her mom would only shop once a month. When you're poor in the states or Canada without a job it's buy as much as you can with your food budget. Rinse and repeat when the next welfare / child tax check comes through.

This. Like, I'm honestly surprised.

My mom was a single mother with 2 kids, and working as a stylist.

She went major grocery shopping once a month.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
Earlier i mentioned a study that took obese individuals from a poor area (in New Zealand, but should still be pretty relevant) and was able to see significant improvements in BMI and cholesterol simply by giving them 2 nutrition classes a week, no meals were provided. https://www.nature.com/articles/nutd20173

The best part of this is that they checked back in with them after the study and not only had they kept their weight off, they continued to lose weight because they were so happy with the diet (a whole food plant based diet) that they never stopped.

The reason why i'm posting this is because so many people on era are adamant that there's nothing to be done about obesity without government intervention, while i agree that we do need it for grand scale improvement, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can to help individually whenever we can. There's no need to scold people for mentioning low cost vegetables, grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds.
 

THE210

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,543
Think about the family that doesn't have a set schedule so some days the kids will need to make their own meals. Are the kids more likely to be able to prepare a processed / micro wave meal or prepared a fresh meal. When I grew up I could microwave a meal or eat cereal. I wouldn't have been able to chop veggies and be a cook
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
Think about the family that doesn't have a set schedule so some days the kids will need to make their own meals. Are the kids more likely to be able to prepare a processed / micro wave meal or prepared a fresh meal. When I grew up I could microwave a meal or eat cereal. I wouldn't have been able to chop veggies and be a cook

See, this was the benefit of the elders in my family teaching the children how to cook. We could then help.

Me and my younger sister, once we hit our teens, constantly started (or finished) preparing meals when mom was running late, working late, had something come up, etc.
 

THE210

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,543
See, this was the benefit of the elders in my family teaching the children how to cook. We could then help.

Me and my younger sister, once we hit our teens, constantly started (or finished) preparing meals when mom was running late, working late, had something come up, etc.

We were staying home alone way before we were teens. Even with the meals we new how to cook we weren't allowed to use the oven/stove with nobody home. That was the number one rule along with not letting anyone in the house.