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Rosé Fighter

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 23, 2019
837
I know, white savior, all that, etc. etc.

But the themes of the movie is that the new ages erases the old, and it fucking sucks. The ending suuuuucks and is very sad.

This movie sucks for alotta reasons. The biggest is that the modern age erases the past.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,108
Cuz Ken Watanabe and Tom Cruise had good chemistry.

They are all perfect, OP.
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
3209b5bf14c264506f29569b0e8d6a23.jpg
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
I know, white savior, all that, etc. etc.

But the themes of the movie is that the new ages erases the old, and it fucking sucks. The ending suuuuucks and is very sad.

This movie sucks for alotta reasons. The biggest is that the modern age erases the past.

The ironic thing about that claim is that it ignores the fundamental fact that the white man is saved by the Samurai and villagers.

Then again, some people still believe that the title - The Last Samurai - is an allusion to Cruise's character which is simply untrue. He is very clearly not the Last Samurai.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
I loved it. Fighting back the tears with Ken Watanabe scene.

"its was a good death"

I lost it.
 

Reizzz

Member
Jun 19, 2019
1,813
Its one of my favourite movies. It's less a white savior movie and more a post trauma movie.
 

Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273
Yeah, Tom didn't save shit in this movie. He just got to watch them die and carry their last memories and message with him.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,605
I just saw it yesterday and while it's not a white savior movie it also didn't really elevate above popcorn movie to me outside of a few scenes. Watanabe was fantastic in it, Cruise felt like he was in some other movie with even more cliches in it but did a serviceable job and it was interesting to be reminded of his trademark enthusiasm for throwing himself into physical roles but with a younger body.

I did have to laugh a bit at scenes where the samurai archers were like one shotting rifleman left and right. I mean, yeah arrows are deadly, but not typically within .5 seconds of hitting someone.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,400
I thought it wasn't technically a white saviour film

Well, the plot of the movie is that some Westerner shows up in a society where people have been training as warriors from birth, and after a few months he is one of the best katana fighters there, and is repelling a ninja attack to save the village.

We can quibble over whether it fulfills all of the aspects of the white savior trope, but it clearly has the element of "white guy quickly outclasses natives in their own culture."
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
But the film isn't about erasing the past, and that's not what happens. Old traditions just find their end to be replaced by new ones. It's progress, and it's present in every culture.
 

MadraptorMan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
947
Niigata, Japan
It's a huge ridiculous oversimplification of actual history with a white dude inserted for no particular reason, so...par for the course?

I actually like the movie...and a lot of Japanese people did too.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I thought the emperor summed up the point of the movie quite nicely. Times are changing, but you can't just throw away the values of your past either.

The movie is explicitly not about erasing the past. That's why the emperor turned down the deal at the end.
 
A nuance to Cruise's character is that he was already a superior soldier and warrior, a living legend in his own culture. Yet he had become disillusioned. It was insinuated that he had eventually seen the lie of white supremacy behind manifest destiny in the Americas. And no longer saw the native people he had spent his life fighting as "savages".

His character arc seems more about a warrior trying to find an honorable way to live after having spent his life in a dishonorable war. He takes to the samurai way of life so well because he was practically a brother by a different mother.

There are definitely themes of not allowing the past to be distorted and covered up. There's a big shot across the bow at American history in the opening; how the conquest of the Americas had been framed with racist revisionism, erasing crimes against native peoples.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,374
User Banned (3 Days): Dismissive Drive-By Posting
The Last Samurai isn't a white savior movie.

People that believe it is don't know what they're talking about.
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
Tom Cruise level of hotness was about a 10 in that movie, that was my biggest takeaway
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,026
I just like to remind people that the Samurais were perfectly comfortable using guns in warfare for hundreds of years before the movie time period.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
I'm still shocked I teared up at this movie lol
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
If you think about it hard enough, you'd realize the Samurai are just upset they're losing their status quo, so it's not that sad.

Occasionally samurai used to practice sword blows on "logs" - which was a euphemism for unlucky passing peasant. That euphemism crops up again in the Japanese occupations of China and other regions in WWII.

you know where else the upper class warrior caste did that and worse? All over Europe during the dark and Middle Ages. Chivalry and Bushido were a class based Mileage tier that didn't apply to the gluemakers and chimney sweeps.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
A nuance to Cruise's character is that he was already a superior soldier and warrior, a living legend in his own culture. Yet he had become disillusioned. It was insinuated that he had eventually seen the lie of white supremacy behind manifest destiny in the Americas. And no longer saw the native people he had spent his life fighting as "savages".

His character arc seems more about a warrior trying to find an honorable way to live after having spent his life in a dishonorable war. He takes to the samurai way of life so well because he was practically a brother by a different mother.

There are definitely themes of not allowing the past to be distorted and covered up. There's a big shot across the bow at American history in the opening; how the conquest of the Americas had been framed with racist revisionism, erasing crimes against native peoples.
Yeah, exactly. The whole movie directly attacks American colonialism. It's not a white savior thing at all. If anything, it's the white guy being saved from himself and the "American way" by leaving his life to live with the samurai.

Tom Cruise's character, one of their top soldiers, is actually a suicidal alcoholic due to guilt for the things he has done, as well as loathing for the people who commanded him to do those things. He pointedly tells one of his commanders that he would kill him for free if he could. He only finds peace by entirely leaving the American way of life and his American identity.

The people the other Americans see as savages are painted as a cultured, noble people, and the Americans are then shown as the savages (who think they are the cultured ones) who are coming in to run it all over for the sake of their own interests. The whole plot progression of the movie is turning around the whole "cultured people vs savages" narrative that the Americans were touting, and showing that it was the Americans who were the savages. That's why Tom Cruise ends up siding with the Japanese and fighting the Americans in the end.

The ending of the movie shows that the emperor finally learned to resist the Americans' bullshit because of the advice of his samurai. It's a bittersweet ending because the samurai had to die to do it, but in the end the emperor's decision to turn away the Americans saved the samurai's values.
 

Seductivpancakes

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,790
Brooklyn
Occasionally samurai used to practice sword blows on "logs" - which was a euphemism for unlucky passing peasant. That euphemism crops up again in the Japanese occupations of China and other regions in WWII.

you know where else the upper class warrior caste did that and worse? All over Europe during the dark and Middle Ages. Chivalry and Bushido were a class based Mileage tier that didn't apply to the gluemakers and chimney sweeps.
Yes thank for you teaching what the IJA did to me my people in China.
 

Chibs

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,505
Belgium
One of my favourite movies, the ending gets me every single time.
When I first saw it as a kid, it was just sad because of Katsumoto-san dying.
But as I got older it became even more sad because I realised it wasn't just Katsumoto dying, it was the death of an entire culture. Literally modern Japan exterminating their own history. One of the shots that actually gets me the most is the commander of the Imperial Army watching the battlefield, holding back his tears and eventually commanding his troops to stop firing, ignoring his superiors. This is not an important character in the movie, but the actor really hit it home. It's very well done and it should make you sad, OP.

Also, I never got the whole 'white savior' critique people throw around when it comes to this movie. Algren didn't save anything or anyone. It was the other way around. He wasn't the Last Samurai.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,605
Occasionally samurai used to practice sword blows on "logs" - which was a euphemism for unlucky passing peasant. That euphemism crops up again in the Japanese occupations of China and other regions in WWII.

you know where else the upper class warrior caste did that and worse? All over Europe during the dark and Middle Ages. Chivalry and Bushido were a class based Mileage tier that didn't apply to the gluemakers and chimney sweeps.

I was a little disappointed the movie didn't lean into this all that much. It never really addresses why people were so ready to cast off the Samurai. It does sorta do it in one scene where the Samurai ride into town and there's a tone of panic as every gets out of the way and bows, but mostly it paints them as peerless people of honor (unless I missed something in another scene).
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
i just wanna say i love this actor right here, he needs to be in so many more things

Hiroyuki Sanada
c0b13caa8091963e5caf9e50b3e18fbc.png
 

HamSandwich

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,605
Such a good movie, I might actually watch it tonight.

The scene where Tom encounters the Samurai the first time in the Forest truly captures how fearsome the samurai were.
 

AbsoluteZero0K

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 6, 2019
1,570
The Last Samurai isn't a white savior movie.

People that believe it is don't know what they're talking about.

White dude arrives and learns in mere minutes the way of the Samurai where natives are trained in since childhood?

White savior film trope.

Even if it's a damned good white savior film, there is little that shrieks colonizer more than Tom Cruise moving in with the widow of the first man he kills.
 
Dec 24, 2017
2,399
Last Samurai was bad because it was one of those movies where Tom Cruise's limited range of only being able to play Tom Cruise didn't fit with the feel of the movie.

And to be fair, the English translator wank was the biggest fucking OG weeb in the film.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
Majorly historically inaccurate? Check.
White guy learns the ways of foreign culture at lightning-fast speed? Check.
Said culture is progressively destroyed by western civilization as enlightened white guy sadly looks on? Check.

Yes, it's Dances with Wolves in Japan...
...
... But, dang it, I really like the film still. Beautiful shots, amazing soundtrack, great performances. As a MOVIE, it's great.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,055
White dude arrives and learns in mere minutes the way of the Samurai where natives are trained in since childhood?

White savior film trope.

Even if it's a damned good white savior film, there is little that shrieks colonizer more than Tom Cruise moving in with the widow of the first man he kills.

I think people forget that there are degrees of white savior. Even if he doesn't save them in the end, it checks off a lot of the same boxes as a white savior story. Plus Last Samurai was just plain boring imo.
 

badboy78660

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,737
One of my faves for sure. What pisses me off though is the number of people who think Tom Cruise's character was the last fuckin' samurai. Dafuq? Like...did you even watch the movie at all?
 

Ishmael

Member
Oct 27, 2017
671
If you think about it hard enough, you'd realize the Samurai are just upset they're losing their status quo, so it's not that sad.
The samurai were essentially Make Japan Great Again clowns who hid in their compound and complained about the system being changed so that others could have rights. I'm not saying the film is bad but the politics are blinkered.