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PachaelD

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,501
I don't give 4 shits where the japanese market is... I buy games I like, I buy game I want, I buy games from USA from EU from Japan from wherever.

If Japan stops making games I like... well fuck. Sucks to be them.

That's fair. The market, and tastes move over time. It's possible that Japan themselves are getting tired of the types of games that are made there considering the increasing influence and popularity of 'foreign' games particularly in the free-to-play space, to put it lightly. The Battle Royale genre is one example that comes to mind.

Again, if one console is doing so well that is actually selling to an almost unprecedented level, and the other is selling so poor, perhaps the market is fine, the relevance of this second console that it's not.

You should visit media create threads more.

Influence from that thread hasn't quite made it up to the third parties yet, but I suspect that heads there will slowly turn as the market realities become stronger.

They're pretty much exactly the same thing with a slightly different skin (hah!). You don't see quite as many western devs use gacha elements in their games after massive backlash with games like Battlefront II, but it's still fairly prevalent in stuff like sports games and F2P games. In some respects, it's funny how much the west seems to have latched onto games like Genshin Impact, considering it has all the same trappings.

Overwatch is the game that got closest to Japanese gachas, in my opinion (at least as far as games I've played). The way they appeal to people is very similar to "waifu/husbando" kind of stuff you find in like, Idolm@ster or Love Live! or Bandori or whatever's popular these days.

Talking about changing gaming trends, the iM@S franchise, which itself celebrated its 15th anniversary, is emblematic about this change. The original game was a small and niche arcade game from one of the biggest arcade operators at that time (Namco). Down the line the series moved to consoles (XB then PS series) and gathered a good amount of popularity for a while. Then they started branching out to handlelds and their cross-media/multi-mix strategy started to bear fruit (anime, lives, merchandising) and eventually the gacha/mobage model that started with Cinderella Girls took over everything else revenue-wise and now said franchise have 6 (or 7) co-running gacha games with cover their 5 sub-branches.
 
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Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
In no other market do scores of gamers tell themselves that their favorite brand isn't doing well there anymore because all those poor Japanese gamers want to play is shitty phone games.

How is it any different that what we do here? here we also criticize lootboxes and gambling from FIFA, Overwatch Battlefront II pre-rework and the likes, and see how it fucks up the industry and ask our governments to regulate that shit, and we don't do that because of any race, but because we now how dangerous is already being here with kids addicted to FIFA Ultimate cards and such. It's silly to think gacha criticism has any racial prejudice behind.

Super long history of white people and westerners attacking Asians for "corrupting" white people, particularly white youths and white girls, with gambling. Here in the US, white mobs spent a few decades burning down Chinese and Japanese neighborhoods across the American west, claiming they were corrupting white children with vices such as gambling, prostitution, and/or opium. Tucson, Denver, Rock Springs, Billings, etc., all saw entire neighborhood razed to the ground for this. The entire mountain west was essentially stripped of Asian communities, and they largely ended up here on the west coast. You can hear an echo of that same yellow peril BS here everytime folks start talking about Chinese or Japanese gacha games getting kids addicted and ruining their lives.

That gambling was used as an excuse for racism before doesn't mean it's always the reason behind. It's certainly not when we criticize gachas, lootboxes, FIFA cards and the likes, or outside gaming, stuff like Sport gambling. That shit is affecting everyone, everywhere.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
Lelouch0612 I think I saw you mention that the market has been as big as it's been in the last 10 years. It's definitely possible, but let's take a closer look at this: according to Gamesindustry.biz, the market last year was 355B Yen, which is the highest since 2014. However, there's something significant that's missing, and it's digital: Nintendo's vouchers for Switch games have caused a significant shift to digital, and the COVID pandemic accelerated that, so the 2020 numbers should be a lot higher than that. But it's difficult to determine how big the market actually was: did digital double the revenue for software (not at all likely imo)? Because that is what would be needed for the market to beat the 494B Yen in 2010.
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Damn some of the bad takes in here are so bad lol

Looking at the bigger picture over the past few generations.. it does make sense.

All the major japanese companies embracing smartphones and the slew of gacha games that have flooded the markets. The major tell should be when Nintendo finally embraced Smartphones. It's a massive market that would be dumb to not capitalize on
I do think there's a slight difference in strategy between companies that pivoted to rely on gacha as a primary income source, and Nintendo that used mobile as digital marketing to cross-promote their other stuff. So FE Heroes was and is monstrously successful, but it's not the most visable flagship of the franchise in the way Three Houses and it's increased production values (and also, interestingly, a pivot away from the shitty gacha/Fates character designs) was. The cash still goes back into the franchise long term, and it ran tie-in promotions to back half a dozen Switch/3DS FE titles etc and raise interest in them whenever they launch (They do something similar with Dragalia Lost and various other Switch JRPGs too). Same goes for Mario Kart Tour and Super Mario Run- it's tapping into the mobile market but they do it in a way that supports the franchises they've had for decades, rather than trying to replace them, which is why Mario Kart 8D is still charting in Japan four years later despite having a mobile title, as all the Switch evergreen stuff just keeps on selling. With the success of the Switch in outpacing every console ever bar the DS in Japan, they've also gradually moved away from mobile development and promotion as a pillar. It was a good idea to explore it at the time, as you say, but they've since taken a step back from it.
 
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SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,455
I actually don't think this is a problem. I DO think ya'll should stop begging Sony to cater to the Japanese market though. Doesn't matter how much they do so, unless they make their own handheld again. That's what this is about. The Switch can be both a handheld and a home console---that's an appeal people in Japan aren't going to pass up.
 

Djalminha

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 22, 2020
2,103
Aside effect of this is more Japanese games going multiplatform, so not everything is bad.
 

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,218
NYC
Even if console gaming is declining in Japan Im glad PlayStation and to a lesser extent Xbox can keep big Japanese franchises thriving.
 

mute

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,062
Most of the major third parties in Japan (and Sony) are unable to make games that the Japanese want on the platforms that the Japanese want.

This is probably because the decision makers at Bandai Namco, Square Enix, Sega ... are from a very specific demographic that no longer represents the market. They make games for themselves and the West, not for most Japanese gamers.
I think this is the case especially with the chunk of the market formerly controlled by Sony. Big names like FF, DMC, etc get big investment because of their worldwide appeal whereas games with more interest concentrated locally dont. The allure of the mass-market title can can be popular everywhere is too strong.
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
I actually don't think this is a problem. I DO think ya'll should stop begging Sony to cater to the Japanese market though. Doesn't matter how much they do so, unless they make their own handheld again. That's what this is about. The Switch can be both a handheld and a home console---that's an appeal people in Japan aren't going to pass up.
So it can do even worse than the Vita ? The idea that Sony would be reversing things in Japan by releasing a portable is unfounded. It is the games that are selling a platform first and foremost. Sony is lacking in these coming at a good pace.
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
Lelouch0612 I think I saw you mention that the market has been as big as it's been in the last 10 years. It's definitely possible, but let's take a closer look at this: according to Gamesindustry.biz, the market last year was 355B Yen, which is the highest since 2014. However, there's something significant that's missing, and it's digital: Nintendo's vouchers for Switch games have caused a significant shift to digital, and the COVID pandemic accelerated that, so the 2020 numbers should be a lot higher than that. But it's difficult to determine how big the market actually was: did digital double the revenue for software (not at all likely imo)? Because that is what would be needed for the market to beat the 494B Yen in 2010.
Digital definitely played a big part this year but not enough to double the revenue. We'll probably get a better idea when we get the Nintendo Switch software shipments next month and the MC Top 1000 in September.
 

BabyShams

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,835
That's fair. The market, and tastes move over time. It's possible that Japan themselves are getting tired of the types of games that are made there considering the increasing influence and popularity of 'foreign' games particularly in the free-to-play space, to put it lightly. The Battle Royale genre is one example that comes to mind.

If they feel that way then that's the market. But I think th western audience wants more. And the demand will swing back to us. The future to me is a niche market that will be met by people that understand us both
 

Djehuty

Member
Sep 2, 2020
1,040
I actually don't think this is a problem. I DO think ya'll should stop begging Sony to cater to the Japanese market though. Doesn't matter how much they do so, unless they make their own handheld again. That's what this is about. The Switch can be both a handheld and a home console---that's an appeal people in Japan aren't going to pass up.
A sony handheld won't do anything in Japan if nobody want's the games on it.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Exactly.

This is why a lot of the biggest selling Japanese third party titles on Nintendo Switch in Japan: Momotaro, Fishing Spirits, Taiko, etc. are mainly only popular in Japan.

Japan's taste in video games and the taste outside Japan is very, very, very different.

I'm not sure I can agree with that conclusion.

The by far most popular console games in Japan are Nintendo games, which also happen to be some of the most popular games outside of Japan, and universally the most popular games from Japanese publishers.

The biggest Japanese gaming IPs in Japan also tend to be the biggest outside of Japan(especially now that MH blew up) with exceptions on either end(DQ skews Japan, Dark Souls skews West).

Those Japanese-focused games being so prominent on Switch is also going to be determined by how third parties are investing their money; "worldwide" games go to PlayStation, "Japanese" games go to Nintendo.
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,593
RPG's sell like shit nowadays sadly the rest of the world has to carry the genre

so maybe its just changing tastes
 

Djehuty

Member
Sep 2, 2020
1,040
RPG's sell like shit nowadays sadly the rest of the world has to carry the genre

so maybe its just changing tastes
DQ11 is past 5.5mil, FETH past 3mil, P5 and P5R combined past 4.5mil, Xenoblade 2 Past 2mil, FF7R past 5mil, Pokemon Past 15mil, NIer part 5mil
?????

Do you mean in Japan? in that case FF declined and everything else grew, Final Fantasy is not the entire JRPG Genre.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
It's this.

Ring Fit Adventure is a TV-only game, costs more than standard software, and has already outsold every game released on PS4 except Monster Hunter World.
This is a really interesting point. Stuff like the 'is the Switch a portable' argument ignores stuff like the crazy success of Ring Fit. Labo obviously wasn't a hit, but both at least show some willingness to create new ideas for adults and kids that aren't as easy to put it a box (literally in these cases) as saying 'it's down to portables/gacha/mobile'. The Switch is ludicrously successful because, if you look at what fills the top 20 in Japan every week, it's the range of Nintendo evergreens, from Mario Kart and Animal Crossing to Ring Fit and BotW. So a mix of still the type of traditional games they've been making for decades as well as new IP, but now you can get the increased production values of the home console versions of the previously-split IP on a version of the hardware that functions as a handheld too.
 
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Deleted member 55822

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 10, 2019
698
As many people pointed out. It's more so the Playstation brand itself that's on the decline. Nintendo is having a smash hit with the Switch. So much it actually offset the decline and make the market in Japan growing since 2017 (which the first time in 10 years for the market btw.)
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
People keep bringing up the console vs handheld argument but it completely ignores all the data we have.

If Switch was a traditional home console, it would still be successful. The flagship Switch is selling significantly more than the Lite. And one of the biggest new IPs in recent years is Ring Fit Adventure, a TV-only game. Similarly, if the PS4/PS5 were handhelds, they would still be struggling. Sony isn't producing the content Japanese players want to see. In the end it comes down to the games.

Even if you ignore Nintendo, other publishers are thriving as well. Momotaro is Konami's best-selling game of all time, Monster Hunter Rise is about to become another smash hit. So the premise of this thread doesn't really hold any water unless you only care about PlayStation, which I don't understand why you would.
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,593
DQ11 is past 5.5mil, FETH past 3mil, P5 and P5R combined past 4.5mil, Xenoblade 2 Past 2mil, FF7R past 5mil, Pokemon Past 15mil, NIer part 5mil
?????

Do you mean in Japan? in that case FF declined and everything else grew, Final Fantasy is not the entire JRPG Genre.
i'm talking about Japan

lots of RPGs could move 500,000 to 1 million+ back in the SNES and PS1 days now only the giant franchises can move those numbers

the growth is coming from the west and asia
 

Rhaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
888
People keep bringing up the console vs handheld argument but it completely ignores all the data we have.

If Switch was a traditional home console, it would still be successful. The flagship Switch is selling significantly more than the Lite. And one of the biggest new IPs in recent years is Ring Fit Adventure, a TV-only game. Similarly, if the PS4/PS5 were handhelds, they would still be struggling. Sony isn't producing the content Japanese players want to see. In the end it comes down to the games.

Even if you ignore Nintendo, other publishers are thriving as well. Momotaro is Konami's best-selling game of all time, Monster Hunter Rise is about to become another smash hit. So the premise of this thread doesn't really hold any water unless you only care about PlayStation, which I don't understand why you would.

In the end it boils down to " My console i bought and paid for is not getting the Japanese exclusive games anymore i used to play on them and because of of Monetary or bullshit COSOLE WARZZZ reasons cannot /refuse to buy the console that will get them
 

Djehuty

Member
Sep 2, 2020
1,040
i'm talking about Japan

lots of RPGs could move 500,000 to 1 million+ back in the SNES and PS1 days now only the giant franchises can move those numbers

the growth is coming from the west and asia
you aren't talking about RPG's, you're talking about Squaresoft. let's put it this way, everything but square ips grew.
SaGa, FF, and whatever else decline because of the games themselves and not that the market lost interest, look at Nier and Persona, they experienced gigantic growth this gen, it's clear there is still a market for these types of games but Square no longer tries to appeal to Japan. Look at Enix they have DQ, Nier and Octopath traveler, they experienced growth in japan because they still make new ips and games that appeal to the RPG fanbase in japan whereas Square doesn't, the only thing they made that appealed to Japan this gen was Bravely Default. Just looking at FF16 makes it clear where their interests lie.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,181
It is really weird how Sony is now mostly dead in Japan.
I mean Microsoft were dead from the get go, but its odd seeing Sony in the same place.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
15,110
The PC gaming audience in Japan big? I'll need to see some data on that. I don't believe that's true.
I've been wondering about this after seeing Japanese publishers throughout last gen finally put their stuff on PC . Is that where the Japanese audience really went (and not just mobile) or did they realize there was more money to be made from the rest of the world via Steam?
According to the official Steam survey, only 1.57% of Steam users have set their language to Japanese. For comparison, that is fewer people than those having it set to Polish or Korean, eventhough Japan is three times as big as Poland and more than twice as big as South Korea.

So...nah.
 
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Dec 21, 2020
5,066
To note, Sony making a Vita 2.0 (but less annoying with things like storage) will not change their course, this "downward trend of consoles"? it is a thing that goes beyond hardware and that's also something a couple are not taking into account when describing the trend. If you don't really have appealing software, you make it difficult to appeal to the market, expect a downward trend in that market for your hardware.

As ultimately, appealing software is what moves consoles to even get bought. And also the accessibility of said games, as in the price of the hardware. If you do not have games that are that appealing on the software, a more expensive product and a hardware that is unappealing to the market trends, that is just writing a recipe that sees a decline.

Triple whammy, doesn't help that although games look aesthetically pleasing from the west and from japan(H:ZD or FF7R), Japanese gaming markets don't mind what a game really looks like. They don't seem to care if it is a triple A game or not, just if it is good and enjoyable for them.
 

Arynio

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,235
You guys should visit the Media Create threads more often. The Japanese "traditional" gaming market has seen important growth the last few years.

A very brief, surface-level summary of the situation:
  • "Traditional" games in general have been in decline in Japan for some time now, starting with the early 2000s
  • While this was happening, portable platforms found ways to keep the audience engaged through new kinds of games (Nintendogs, Animal Crossing, Brain Age etc.)
  • This eventually led to portables (largely DS, PSP, and 3DS) becoming the de facto gaming platforms in Japan
  • Since Japanese developers have traditionally put a lot of effort into their portable games, the audience there doesn't see them as "inferior" like the west did for so many years
  • After the Nintendo DS, smartphones began hosting the kind of games the DS was known for, and a large portion of the audience migrated to those, while the 3DS held on to whatever was left of the traditional gaming audience
  • Japan has been shifting to smaller and smaller devices for some time now--portables, smartphones, tablets etc. in lieu of consoles, computers, TV
  • The Japanese lifestyle also involves a lot of commuting on public transport, which means that phones and portable platforms are inherently better suited to that market
  • Smartphones games have also found their own ways of keeping players engaged using mechanics like gacha and are now given large budgets that sometimes put them on par with more traditional games. They're worked into the fabric of every game developer's business strategy.

As a result of the above factors:
  • Portables/phones have slowly become the only place where you can really find games that the Japanese audience is interested in
  • Example; games with a social element where you meet up in person are popular (DQ9, MH, Pokemon etc.), all of which are more popular on portables
  • So basically: the gaming market declined, portables innovated and took over, the audience moved to portables and phones, and are now staying there for good
  • This has resulted in the kinds of games the Japanese want to play largely being developed for phones and portable platforms
  • This has cemented the ongoing decline of the "home console" market

There's more to it, of course, but this is a fairly succinct overview.

While this summary is mostly accurate, and I understand this definition of traditional home console, it ignores the most recent developments. The Japanese gaming market has been growing ever since the Switch released, and the Switch is also a home console.
 

Ishaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,702
You guys should visit the Media Create threads more often. The Japanese "traditional" gaming market has seen important growth the last few years.



While this summary is mostly accurate, and I understand this definition of traditional home console, it ignores the most recent developments. The Japanese gaming market has been growing ever since the Switch released, and the Switch is also a home console.

I think it's safe to say that, without the hybrid feature, Switch wouldn't be nearly as appealing to Japan as it is. I don't think it makes sense to call the Switch a home console, when the main appeal is that it's also a portable. It needs to be recognised for what it is--something new and disruptive, which overlaps with both the console and portable segments.
 

Valkyria

Member
Oct 26, 2017
136
User Warned: Platform Wars
This forum has a huge problem with Nintendo fanboyism.
Switch is selling, and is the only platform selling. 15 years ago, PS2, PSP, GBA, NDS and Wii were selling all together and with good numbers. Nowadays only one platform is selling and tracking 3DS on sales until last year that finally catched up.
Mobile is where is it. Anyone who has put theirs feet on Japan can tell.
 

Deleted member 31092

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
10,783
This forum has a huge problem with Nintendo fanboyism.
Switch is selling, and is the only platform selling. 15 years ago, PS2, PSP, GBA, NDS and Wii were selling all together and with good numbers. Nowadays only one platform is selling and tracking 3DS on sales until last year that finally catched up.
Mobile is where is it. Anyone who has put theirs feet on Japan can tell.

The decline in terms of quantity of console sold compared to 2 generations ago is a worldwide phenomenon and not strictly relates to Japan.

Sony is selling far less consoles than in the PS3/PSP gen and the same is true for Nintendo compared to the Wii/NDS generation in every single market, doesn't mean that gaming is on a worldwide decline tho.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,479
The fact that Japanese people prefer the hybrid switch to the cheaper handheld-only lite model tells us that there is still a place for traditional consoles in Japan. Obv it's easier to go that way when it has the handheld mode as an option, but that's not the whole story.

So what is the problem? Or more accurately, what is the problem for sony?

Microsoft have gotten exactly what they deserve out of the JP market given they haven't given it any real thought since the early days of the 360 (when, shockingly, they didn't do too badly with exclusive jrpgs being released for it).
Nintendo did extremely well with the Wii until they started coasting and stopped supporting it properly (and given they got practically no third party support, the wii sales figures for those early years in Japan are superb). The Wii U did not deserve to be a success.

So Sony. I think the problem for Sony is that although they're not doing much different than those days when the PSX/PS2 were riding high, they didn't need to do much then after the PSX was up and running. They had the most popular console. Cart licensing compared to CD costs made N64 prohibitive and the Saturn was tough to develop for with less powerful 3D abilities, and then the PS2 got the benefit of succeeding the most popular console, having a DVD player and making no real misteps. They got all the games from small pubs without even having to ask for it. And also SCE Japan worked with a lot of devs to make cool quirky games too (I fondly remember games like Arc the Lad & Jumping Flash).
Let's look at SCEJ's publishing (wikipedia based, so numbers are probably not 100%):

100 PSX games
98 PS2 games
35 PS3 games
16 PS4 games
1 PS5 game

As each generation has gone on, the number of Japanese games published by Sony has gone down. At the same time, game cost has gone up due to HD development, so less third parties JP devs are publishing games on their own for PS. Yet at a time Sony should be doing more, they are doing less. I don't have a crystal ball to say whether Sony could have kept market share had they done more, but what they did do was clearly not enough.

When the PS3 arrived the HD costs hit hard and a lot of these games went handheld, mobile, or just disappeared. Sony still got some with PSP to PS3 ports and PSV to PS4 ports, but they have no handhelds now, and the best they'll get is some switch ports and stuff that will sell well in the west. Anything more they'd have to actively encourage. But they're not doing that and they're not making anything with the JP market in mind.

Nintendo's strength is their backbone as a software developer that makes games that the Japanese public want to play, and in turn it's now seeing support from the smaller Japanese devs that are still around. Being playable in handheld mode is certainly a factor, but it's the games in the end - the Wii was still selling like gangbusters in Japan while the PS3 was struggling due to their games. Sony would have to spend a lot of money in the Japanese market to make a difference (to not much short term gain), and given their western success that's just not something they seem interested in doing.

TL DR, at a time Sony should be encouraging more JP developed games then they ever have, they are doing the least they have ever done.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
Even taking the success of Switch into account; the total Japanese market is continuing to shrink. It's so weak now that it can only support one successful platform now.

Mobile will continue to consume everything.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,479
Even taking the success of Switch into account; the total Japanese market is continuing to shrink. It's so weak now that it can only support one successful platform now.

Mobile will continue to consume everything.

More like there's only one platform that has the games that allow it to succeed in Japan. iirc the market rose in 2020 and could well do the same in 2021 even with one platform.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
The decline in terms of quantity of console sold compared to 2 generations ago is a worldwide phenomenon and not strictly relates to Japan.

Sony is selling far less consoles than in the PS3/PSP gen and the same is true for Nintendo compared to the Wii/NDS generation in every single market, doesn't mean that gaming is on a worldwide decline tho.

Yup, I don't see why this point is continually ignored. The total market for dedicated hardware contracted massively everywhere from that generation.
 

JoshuaJSlone

Member
Dec 27, 2017
715
Indiana
It doesn't seem to me like home console gaming is on the decline--but it's pretty flat, and Sony is getting a smaller part of it. SNES, PS1, PS2, sold around 20 million as THE consoles. PS3+Wii, still around 20 million. More recently it's harder to compare, since Switch is very successful but also not purely a home machine.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,829
Netherlands
You come back from sarariman work at 11pm, wasted from the after office nomihodai, trying to start an 80 hour "epic" open world game. Playstation games moved away from the Japanese reality, focusing only on otakus that still have that amount of time and converged into irrelevance. Nintendo Switch shows the interest is still there at least.
 

Drblitzk

Member
Dec 9, 2020
295
I guess most people don't remember or aren't old enough to realize that Sony's first party games were a huge factor in making the PS1 a success in Japan, Gran Turismo, Hot Shots Golf, Crash, Parappa, Arc the Lad were really big games that drived the adoption of the console, all of them were million sellers in Japan only, that died down a little bit with the PS2 but they were still strong , from there and they barely produce games like that since the PS3 (they still tried with PSP) or gives them minimal attention, focusing instead on their western output.

But I think the main reason is that the japanese gamers have mostly got tired (or grew out?) from most of the popular third party franchises from the late 90's/early 2000, games that made the SNES but mostly Playstation 1 and 2, very popular at the time, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were multi-million sellers, games like RE, Tekken, Kingdom Hearts, Dynasty Warriors even Onimusha were million sellers, and a big, and I mean BIG amount of games like Metal Gear, Tales of, Star Ocean, Xenogears, SaGa used to sell almost a million only in Japan, those last few just shows how Square used to be the main driver of big software but not anymore, and now of the few of all those franchises that survive are still tied to playstation, who doesn't have the desire to make it's platform grow in that market anymore, and third parties have not been able to produce interesting games for it's own market mostly with the excuse of chasing the west, it is a vicious cycle.

Now only Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter are able to sell more than 2 million locally, Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts barely scratches the million and from there is a huge divide from games that can sell 400k-500k. Momotaro is showing that you can still be successful with the right focus and in the right platform.

I think it's safe to say that, without the hybrid feature, Switch wouldn't be nearly as appealing to Japan as it is. I don't think it makes sense to call the Switch a home console, when the main appeal is that it's also a portable. It needs to be recognised for what it is--something new and disruptive, which overlaps with both the console and portable segments.

The main appeal is that is both, and you can use it the way you prefer to use it and depending of the situation nor the handheld nor the console is more important. And the fact that it has the games that japanese are currently interested in.

This forum has a huge problem with Nintendo fanboyism.
Switch is selling, and is the only platform selling. 15 years ago, PS2, PSP, GBA, NDS and Wii were selling all together and with good numbers. Nowadays only one platform is selling and tracking 3DS on sales until last year that finally catched up.
Mobile is where is it. Anyone who has put theirs feet on Japan can tell.

I think you have to split those between PS2/GBA and PSP/NDS/WII, the PS4/3DS/VITA period will end up selling a lot more than PS2/GBA/GC/ combo. Nothing is ever touching the PSP/NDS/WII period, that was the peak of the dedicated hardware market everywhere.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,579
This forum has a huge problem with Nintendo fanboyism.
Switch is selling, and is the only platform selling. 15 years ago, PS2, PSP, GBA, NDS and Wii were selling all together and with good numbers. Nowadays only one platform is selling and tracking 3DS on sales until last year that finally catched up.
Mobile is where is it. Anyone who has put theirs feet on Japan can tell.
Smh how is it fanboyism when people literally are using statistics to back up thier claims? Smh
Even taking the success of Switch into account; the total Japanese market is continuing to shrink. It's so weak now that it can only support one successful platform now.

Mobile will continue to consume everything.
Becuase 1 competitor failed to capture interest doesnt mean the market is weak. When the PS2 trounced the gamecube amd xbox back in gen 6 (every console excpet the GBA and PS2 sold awfully) was the market weak too there? No. It just meant Microsoft and Nintendo failed to capture consumer interest while PS did and the market was just dandy
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,949
I don't find it concerning at all. It's not like Japanese developers aren't making games anymore, or supporting all of the platforms.

Handheld gaming just fits their lifestyle better than having a big box in front of a TV. Smaller living spaces, and they're usually out working/socializing. At least that's been my understanding.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
It is pretty funny how mobile gaming is considered the devil's reincarnation going by posts here. But even funnier is how people think this is a Japan only phenomenon, when mobile gaming is the biggest market of gaming worldwide, including the United States.

In regards to the thread title, people have answered it plenty but yes, the market isn't declining, it's in fact growing. Only PlayStation is declining. And the answer is quite simple: it doesn't have enough games appealing to the Japanese audience anymore. It sells more to core gamers and otakus rather than the broad gaming audience that Switch and mobile platforms have caught.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,817
The Switch vs Switch Lite argument is an incredibly flawed way of saying "home consoles are still relevant", for the two very obvious reasons which are:

1.) Contrary to what Nintendo home console centric fans like to believe, base Switch is functionally no different than the Lite as a portable
2.) Nintendo's brand strength, unlike Sony, lies entirely with their handheld devices, dating all the way back to the Game & Watch.

So, at the very best, you can say that stationary functionality still has relevance.....as long as it is married to portability. To suggest otherwise is to willfully ignore prior data of the Nintendo home vs. handheld sales split and how that traditional software didn't make a lick of difference in the former performing worse than the latter.

To even suggest, imply, insinuate, or question the portability isn't the single most contributing factor why the Switch has a differing sales curve than a pure Nintendo home console is equally as ignorant.
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
I don't find it concerning at all. It's not like Japanese developers aren't making games anymore, or supporting all of the platforms.

Handheld gaming just fits their lifestyle better than having a big box in front of a TV. Smaller living spaces, and they're usually out working/socializing. At least that's been my understanding.
It is something people repeats a lot but it is also hidding the true reasons behind PlayStation decline.

The PS2 was very successful in Japan, so why did it decline by 50% with the PS3 ? Did Japanese consummers changed the way of life precisely during the PS3 launch ? Or did it initially fail like everywhere in the world at launch because it was an unappealing product ?

The ingredients Sony used to recover in the West didn't translate to Japan to the same extent.
 

RossoneR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
935
They care only about portable platforms.
Working like 12 hours leaves little time to sit infront of tv.

Nintendo realised this.