Sorry if I wasn't clear english isn't my first language and when I said feels like I meant controls like.
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Why is it that we have so many Metroid clones but nothing is as good as the best Metroid games?
- Thread starter Wariobenotware
- Start date
I think hollow knight is a better game overall.
I would give the white palace a pass, as it becomes fairly easy if you get the hiveblood charm from the hive. This adds a metroidvania approach to solving the problem.
Untitled Story by Matt Thorson of Celeste fame is very good, but super hard. Not sure I ever beat it, but I enjoyed the hell out of it.
Within a Deep Forest is another one like Lyle with a strange central mechanic. You're a bouncing ball, and all the power ups are different ball materials.
Those two are the first to pop into my head, but I'll do some more digging.
HK has leveled up the genre for sure. I feel like being a Metroid alike is now not enough. HK took this type of game a showed it can be made to be more than just a simple 10 hour romp. The games can be bigger more modern and more epic in scope. I love the classics as much as anyone but the formula has been understood for a while now.
Hollow Knight > Super Metroid imo. I also like the Ori games more, but those are barely metroidvanias. I'm surprised at so many people saying Axiom Verge. I liked it well enough, but I'd put it near the bottom of all the Metroidvanias I've played. Amazing OST though.
The original post was that it "feels like a flash game" which you then explained was due to the controls. Which is a vague explanation that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What are the distinct characteristics of flash game controls that are so different from any other Metroidvania that is a side-scroller to say Hollow Knight "feels like a flash game".
It just feels like you have a vague explanation as to why you don't like thing that doesn't actually explain the stance. Which is the case for most explanations for why someone doesn't like thing.
Have you played Hollow Knight? Metroid is one of my favorite franchises and I think Hollow Knight outclasses all of the 2D metroids.
In addition, Metroid has been on a mediocre streak recently. The last game that truly impressed me was Metroid Prime 2. There have been an insane amount of quality titles in the metroid genre since Metroid went in the dumps.
We'll see what happens with Prime 4.
In addition, Metroid has been on a mediocre streak recently. The last game that truly impressed me was Metroid Prime 2. There have been an insane amount of quality titles in the metroid genre since Metroid went in the dumps.
We'll see what happens with Prime 4.
It was years ago I played Super Metroid. But I enjoyed Axiom Verge more than it. But I should probably play Super Metroid again.
Yes you got it, I just used a comparison because I have no idea how to express with words what I don't like precisely.
So this looks like a flash game?
I love the game's visuals and also think they are very pretty. And no I don't think it looks like a flash game.
Hollow knight is the best metroidvania ever and both Ori games are *at least* as good as the best metroid games imo, so idk what to tell you OP, perhaps you are just so attached to the specific characteristics of metroid games, which is fine, but far from making the rest of metroidvania games not up to par with them.
To be honest I think Super Metroid is a hard bar to reach when most of the following Metroid games in the next 25 years didn't reach it either.
It's interesting that, considering how popular these exploratory platform games are, the 'RPG elements' of being able to level-up, increase strength and brute-force your way through, started by SotN, has become a lot more popular than the 'weapons, tools and upgrades only' approach of Metroid.
For me, Hollow Knight is in the same tier as Super Metroid. Both have flaws but they are relatively minor, and both are incredibly atmospheric.
It's interesting that, considering how popular these exploratory platform games are, the 'RPG elements' of being able to level-up, increase strength and brute-force your way through, started by SotN, has become a lot more popular than the 'weapons, tools and upgrades only' approach of Metroid.
For me, Hollow Knight is in the same tier as Super Metroid. Both have flaws but they are relatively minor, and both are incredibly atmospheric.
Honestly, I think a lot of games have surpassed (the 2D) Metroid games, especially in terms of control and gameplay.
I can't think of a single 2D Metroid game that I actually enjoy specifically for the combat. That aspect has always felt serviceable at best, clunky most of the time, and at worst actively irritating (like Samus Returns for me, didn't like the parry mechanic at all, felt so overused even in the short time I played it).
I actually appreciate the leveling and weapon upgrade mechanics in the more "Vania" style games because it actually gives me a reason to engage with fighting enemies and not just skip them whenever I can like in 2D Metroid games. Especially the DS Castlevania's where you get abilities as random drops that give you all new combat abilities/spells (whatever they were called).
And I've never played a Metroidvania with leveling mechanics that I broke the balance unless I was ACTIVELY trying to by grinding for levels, and it's not like in Metroid games you can find most of the the missile and health upgrades (don't even need all of them) and be basically unkillable by the end.
It doesn't take away from the permanent upgrades at all IMO since those are still needed to traverse and explore the world.
The fan made AM2R was the superior Metroid 2 remake IMO. I probably would have finished SR had I not played it after AM2R, but it just felt inferior to me in every way (didn't like the look of it or how the combat felt).
I can't think of a single 2D Metroid game that I actually enjoy specifically for the combat. That aspect has always felt serviceable at best, clunky most of the time, and at worst actively irritating (like Samus Returns for me, didn't like the parry mechanic at all, felt so overused even in the short time I played it).
I actually appreciate the leveling and weapon upgrade mechanics in the more "Vania" style games because it actually gives me a reason to engage with fighting enemies and not just skip them whenever I can like in 2D Metroid games. Especially the DS Castlevania's where you get abilities as random drops that give you all new combat abilities/spells (whatever they were called).
And I've never played a Metroidvania with leveling mechanics that I broke the balance unless I was ACTIVELY trying to by grinding for levels, and it's not like in Metroid games you can find most of the the missile and health upgrades (don't even need all of them) and be basically unkillable by the end.
It doesn't take away from the permanent upgrades at all IMO since those are still needed to traverse and explore the world.
Yeah, I only played Samus Returns for a few hours before dropping it. The first Metroid game I've ever done that with.
The fan made AM2R was the superior Metroid 2 remake IMO. I probably would have finished SR had I not played it after AM2R, but it just felt inferior to me in every way (didn't like the look of it or how the combat felt).
As bad of a take as this is, I sort of get it. I hated the look of HK before I actually played it. Now I'm 100% sold and love the way it looks, but it took being immersed in the world and seeing it in motion for me.
OP sounds a bit biased to be honest
Like I just replayed super metroid, great game, atmosphere, secrets etc...but the idea that no game in the last 25 years has reached that high is asinine.
Hollow Knight, Ori, Steamworld dig, Axiom etc... so many games have done so much to differentiate and expand the genre and build on Super Metroid. In fact I would say metroid games themselves have stagnated not the competition.
Like I just replayed super metroid, great game, atmosphere, secrets etc...but the idea that no game in the last 25 years has reached that high is asinine.
Hollow Knight, Ori, Steamworld dig, Axiom etc... so many games have done so much to differentiate and expand the genre and build on Super Metroid. In fact I would say metroid games themselves have stagnated not the competition.
Imo its on par or better. I'm not a big of the choice to include those random secret areas per playthrough but that's a really minor thing.
Lots of people disagree though, although I've never really seen any critiques that go into why.
I'm actually really curious if OP Wariobenotware has played it. If you don't want RPG mechanics or story and are looking for a more "pure" Metroid replacement the list of games is actually pretty short. I'm not even sure which games besides Axiom might apply to his criteria... Momodora? Yoku's Island Express except that it's clearly quite different?
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To make a Wario Land game, the only thing that would please everyone, is even harder - Takashi Tezuka
My main problem with axiom verge (playing through it right now) is that the environments are unvaried and uninteresting. Which, in a Metroidvania, is kinda a glaring flaw imo. The gameplay is great, but I'm not really invested in exploring because of how dull everything looks
Ori is probably the best Metroidvania game, and it's largely because it focuses more on platforming than the "Metroidvania" formula (it also has the best art style of these games). You could also make a case for Metroid Prime 2 but that's more because of story/atmosphere and non-gameplay reasons.
I truly wish I could get into Hollow knight the way that other fans of the genre seem to. But what I actually wish is that Hollow Knight didn't take quiiiite so much inspiration from Dark Souls and just made it enjoyable to actually spend time in that world. It's also just like 2-3x the length that I want a good Metroid-like to be. I got 20 hours in before I realized that I wasn't anywhere close to finishing and just sorta turned it off.
For those like me who did not click with Hollow Knight, what other modern Metroid-likes do you enjoy? I do still love the genre, but I don't really care for the intermingling of Soulsborne gameplay elements that seems so prevalent these days, and I especially do not care for incorporating the ethos of Soulsbornes (ie: the player must be punished at every turn or it's not rewarding).
For those like me who did not click with Hollow Knight, what other modern Metroid-likes do you enjoy? I do still love the genre, but I don't really care for the intermingling of Soulsborne gameplay elements that seems so prevalent these days, and I especially do not care for incorporating the ethos of Soulsbornes (ie: the player must be punished at every turn or it's not rewarding).
"Not as good as Super Metroid" doesn't constitute criticism as you can't top perfection. The other Metroids all have their flaws as do the games that have been listed in this thread.
Hollow Knight comes very close, but some design choices, and a certain lack of... let's say elegance and simplicity makes it a slightly inferior experience
Hollow Knight comes very close, but some design choices, and a certain lack of... let's say elegance and simplicity makes it a slightly inferior experience
Nice. I quite like Tomb Raider 2013 a lot (though I can't say I was thrilled by the sequels). I played the original Mirrors Edge but not Catalyst, and thinking of checking it out. Destiny I don't have much interest in, I'm mostly just a single player guy. There are a lot of 3D games that touch on aspects of the Prime series, but in my opinion nothing has really come close that I've seen.
It's always weird to me when people say something like Doom 2016 feels like Prime. Like, what? Doom is entirely about shooting and killing monsters in arenas, with fast, fluid movement. Prime is about careful exploration, pathfinding, investigating the environment and enemies, puzzle solving, and action. I do understand the Souls comparisons to some degree, but to me the comparison is more apt to the original NES Metroid, or even Metroid II where they just drop you in with very little context and you are set off to explore giant areas with no map. What it DOES have in common with the Prime games though is that, at least to me, the main focus of the game is world building, level design, and atmosphere. And in that regard, simply existing in the Souls worlds sometimes feels Primesque.
How far are you? I can see this for maybe the first 2, maybe 3 areas. Was going to post some screenshots but I don't want to spoil you. Compared with Super Metroid I'd see it's nearly as varied if not equally.
I don't think Super Metroid has been usurped as being the best Metroidvania but there are games ( even other Metroid games) I personally prefer to replay over it. Metroid Prime and Zero Mission come to mind and SoTN as well.
Whoever said Hollow Knight plays like a flash game is insane. Hollow Knight is a top ten game in the genre. Its not high on my personal top ten list but its excellent. What a unique environment and atmosphere!
Whoever said Hollow Knight plays like a flash game is insane. Hollow Knight is a top ten game in the genre. Its not high on my personal top ten list but its excellent. What a unique environment and atmosphere!
I think this is my problem with the game. Ive purchased it on every platform that its released for and still cant make myself enjoy it. I have a close friend who loves this game and I keep trying for him. Basically I'm and idiot.
I'm a reasonably big fan of Metroidvanias despite the fact that the only actual Metroid I've played is Fusion and I wound up quitting that in annoyance when I realised I'd reached a point of no return, presumably right before the last boss.
I fully agree agree with the bloat comments towards Hollow Knight, I'd probably have loved it if it were half the size. As it is, I'm probably a few hours out from 107%ing it (or whatever you get up to without needing to do the junkyard boss rush section) and I've reached a point with the game where the thought of even turning it on makes me feel tired.
I'd say the two Metroidvanias I've enjoyed the most have been Shadow Complex (not played since the 360, it may not hold up so well now) and the Strider reboot (although that may have worked on me by tickling my nostalgia bone).
I'd also give a quick shout to VVVVVV which, while not strictly Metroid or Metroidvania, felt quite similar with the whole filling in the map exploration and is a nice tight couple of hours with a great central mechanic (you don't jump, you reverse gravity).
Still got Monster Boy and Ori 2 in my pile of shame. Sounds like I should probably add Axiom Verge to that too. And maybe finally play Super Metroid.
I fully agree agree with the bloat comments towards Hollow Knight, I'd probably have loved it if it were half the size. As it is, I'm probably a few hours out from 107%ing it (or whatever you get up to without needing to do the junkyard boss rush section) and I've reached a point with the game where the thought of even turning it on makes me feel tired.
I'd say the two Metroidvanias I've enjoyed the most have been Shadow Complex (not played since the 360, it may not hold up so well now) and the Strider reboot (although that may have worked on me by tickling my nostalgia bone).
I'd also give a quick shout to VVVVVV which, while not strictly Metroid or Metroidvania, felt quite similar with the whole filling in the map exploration and is a nice tight couple of hours with a great central mechanic (you don't jump, you reverse gravity).
Still got Monster Boy and Ori 2 in my pile of shame. Sounds like I should probably add Axiom Verge to that too. And maybe finally play Super Metroid.
The best Metroid games derive much (I'd argue the bulk) of their appeal on unraveling an obfuscated path forward. This is true of the 3D games and 2D games. My preferred method for describing them is as pathfinding games. The door keys are abilities, and the levels are mazes. They are very unique.
Some so-called Metroidvanias have kept this element but built other systems on top. I'd argue that's true of SotN, which had a very maze-like castle.
Others, like Cave Story or the Ori games don't obfuscate the path forward much at all. These are great games, but they lack part of the appeal of the best Metroid games. They have the locks and keys but not the maze.
It's hard to build a gated maze. I think that's why the bulk of these lite Metroidvanias don't really incorporate it.
Some so-called Metroidvanias have kept this element but built other systems on top. I'd argue that's true of SotN, which had a very maze-like castle.
Others, like Cave Story or the Ori games don't obfuscate the path forward much at all. These are great games, but they lack part of the appeal of the best Metroid games. They have the locks and keys but not the maze.
It's hard to build a gated maze. I think that's why the bulk of these lite Metroidvanias don't really incorporate it.
To throw another name into the ring: Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet was a good one without RPG elements and w/o much story. Not a traditional platformer type like Metroid though.
If you've got the Labcoat and made it to Kur and still are not enjoying it I'd say it's just not for you. I personally enjoyed it before that, although I did start on hard and had to restart because it was too much for me.
If you've got the Labcoat and made it to Kur and still are not enjoying it I'd say it's just not for you. I personally enjoyed it before that, although I did start on hard and had to restart because it was too much for me.
I think I prefer Monster Boy to Super Metroid even if I have tons of nostalgia associated w/ Super Metroid.
I was going to post the same thing and add that level design in Metroid games is unparalleled. That's only exasperated when many more modern games uses random level layouts. It takes away from that pacing and atmosphere that Metroid does so well.
Metroid Prime is the best game of all time.
"Why doesn't someone just make the new best game of all time?" - Not that easy. Especially when the trend in gaming is that bloat, unstructured progression, and massive feature lists are considered to be good things.
"Why doesn't someone just make the new best game of all time?" - Not that easy. Especially when the trend in gaming is that bloat, unstructured progression, and massive feature lists are considered to be good things.
Pretty much. They have a gameplay-first focus that nobody else can match. Can be seen in Mario and Zelda as well.
Now that's a shit quote, of tag worthiness.
Please stop with the tales from arse edition.