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Why is it so easy for developers to capture some of the Soulsbourne magic but not Monster Hunter's?

Soundtrack2chaos

Soundtrack2chaos

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,260
The Blocc
Monster Hunter has been around for probably close to 15 years or so and there have really only been two game series to try and emulate what they do, Toukiden and God Eater. Neither of those games is considered even remotely close to the type of magic that you experience when you play a true MH game. Yet for the Soulsbourne genre, it seems really easy to make a Sekiro, Code Vein, Surge, etc. What gives? Why have those Souls-inspired games been of such a quality as to make soulsborne an actual genre that is still spawning new series, like Blasphemous yet nobody is even trying to make a game like Monster Hunter anymore outside of your latest God Eater rendition, which probably doesn't even sell as well as a series like the Surge?
 
Grexeno

Grexeno

Sorry for your ineptitude
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,782
It's only been popular outside of Japan (and good) for one game.
 
ILikeFeet

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
all those Soulsborne games came after the success of Dark Souls. only one Monster Hunter game reached that success in the west. in Japan, there are clones that have their own niches
 
Kapryov

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,144
Australia
There are loads of Monster Hunter clones, aren't there?

From the top of my head, you missed Freedom Wars and Soul Sacrifice, and there was that Dauntless game being advertised here and there online (not sure if that ever came out).
They certainly get less attention and love than Souls clones though, except maybe Soul Sacrifice, but that's trapped on the Vita.
 

Deleted member 4552

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,570
Theres been more Monster Hunter clones than Dark Souls and they were closer in quality overall
 
Imur

Imur

Member
Jan 4, 2018
485
What you are saying is the same with the soulsborne clones. Neither surge or code vein or lords of the fallen ever got it right. Only game that could do it is Nioh and the other From games, but duh...
 
DoubleTake

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,529
No Souls "Clone" has gotten close to anything From makes.

Those games take the skeleton of what a Souls game is. The punishing combat, the retrieval of exp/items, and sometimes an interconnected world.

They often forget the thick atmosphere, the incredibly compelling but out of your face stories, and the best in industry art style.

Even when they do get things right, they often pale in comparison.

Grexeno said:
It's only been popular outside of Japan (and good) for one game.
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Also this.
 
Yuntu

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,691
Germany
I don't think any dev ever really nailed the Souls feeling or is of any higher quality than the ones trying to be their own MH.

Some formulas are just so good they are hard to copy and implement. That's why Nioh is the most sucessful "Souls clone", because its is own thing first and foremost.
 
Quad Lasers

Quad Lasers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,542
Monster Hunter is much more combat focused so developers can't just take the general idea of the game and skimp out on said combat.

Souls game at least lean on multiple mechanics, so if you're only successful at replicating or iterating on a handful of those mechanics, you've more or less succeeded at making a good one.
 
Luckett_X

Luckett_X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,410
Leeds, UK
Monster Hunter is steeped in Capcom's technical prowess from fighting games and Devil May Cry. It was also kind of a horrible somewhat janky game until, in my opinion, around about Monster Hunter Tri when proper controls and the like were introduced. It iterated itself through 5 or 6 releases before that point. Dragon's Dogma 2, if its happening, is going to blow minds now we're safely out of the 'Skyrim Is Everything' media era.

FROM are clearly experimenting with more stylish stuff like Sekiro targeting action combat a lot more. Platinum pitched in on Granblue Fantasy Relink, and maybe Babylon's Fall will be something close to their take on boss hunting. Nioh was fun, if a bit splashy, so we'll see how tight stuff is in 2. Between those three houses, they're the only ones that can give Capcom the slightest rustle in their chosen arena.
 
Seraphis Cain

Seraphis Cain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,454
There's way more than two MH clones out there. Besides Toukiden and God Eater, there's:

Freedom Wars
Lords of Arcana
Ragnarok Odyssey
Soul Sacrifice
Final Fantasy Explorers
Dauntless
Kaiju Busters

And probably a couple other JP-exclusive ones I'm forgetting/not aware of.
 
zMiiChy-

zMiiChy-

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,881
Monster Hunter sucked until World IMO.

Also, the only really beloved souls likes I can think of are Nioh, Salt & Sanctuary and Code Vein.
 
Sanka

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Those souls game clones got just as much critical acclaim as the Monster Hunter clones you mentioned.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Monster Hunters enemies , weapons and combat are incredibly intricate. It's akin to a fighting game tbh. The animations alone are a step above what the MH clones have all attempted.
 
Shadoken

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,206
Souls combat is a bit more simplistic and easier to incorporate into many games and settings.

MH combat is quite a bit more complex and also geared more specifically towards fighting big monsters.
 
SmokedSalmon

SmokedSalmon

Member
Apr 1, 2019
2,656
I don't think any Souls inspired game has been able to capture the essences of what From's games are. The Souls games are very unique in how obtuse they chose to be, something that's hard to replicate which is why it's the combat aspect of Souls games that gets carried over into these other games.

The Surge, Code Vein and Nioh all excel at being "Souls" games by doing their own thing.

In the same way, Toukiden and God Eater are also doing their own thing.

As far as the fact that not many people are making their own Monster Hunter games, I'd imagine its because Monster Hunter wasn't hugely popular outside of Japan. I think we'll be getting more games in the future that try their hand out as being inspired by Monster Hunter.
 
Naga

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
I now remember all those hunting games on Vita lol.
That was weird to not see MonHun clones where the games actually were.
Grexeno said:
It's only been popular outside of Japan (and good) for one game.
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I'd argue you're popular past a million copies, which all games after Tri achieved in the west (apart from GU I believe).
 

RelaxItsJustMe

Member
Feb 15, 2019
2,541
I don't agree with this at all. Hell, I probably place Soul Sacrifice over all the Soulsborne clones I've played.

You wanna know the real reason Soulsborne is a genre and mh clone isn't? Because those clones were mostly Japanese and aimed to a Japanese audience and mostly handheld and therefore are pretty much unknown in the western communities whereas the Soulsborne clones were western made games aimed for the western communities on popular western devices and over half the MH clones are probably Vita games to fill the MH void.
 
s y

s y

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,433
because monster hunter actually has depth to its combat and weapons.
 
XaviConcept

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,912
Its extremely custom animation based which makes it harder to replicate at a base level

also, DS gets ... misunderstood a lot. Some developer think Hard'! Is DS others think Bonfire! Others think Dont tell the player shit! Dunning Kruger effect really does a job on devs here

and finally, Monste Hunter wasnt seen as a success that should be copied. It was this "JPN ppl like it but thats it" That aint gonna float for big companies
 
Richietto

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
22,997
North Carolina
I have yet to see any developer capture the Souls magic in any way. Jedi Fallen Order copies some of the mechanics and it's a great game but it didn't capture the Souls experience at all. Neither has Code Vein or any of those titles. The devs just see pieces of Souls games and take from it like it being hard, and having to retrieves your experience. That's not what gives a game "Souls magic"

Both are made by a specific developer that understands the type of game they are making and others copy it without understanding truly what it takes to make Souls or Monster Hunting games.
 
Burrman

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,633
Because you have to fight the bosses t least 20 times before beating them. Makes you remember them forever. Also great designs and unique fighting styles.

never mind. I thought you said hard to. I haven't seen anyone capture Souls easy yet.
 
Foot

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,918
Listing Code Vein as a game that "gets it" is a good way to show you don't.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Outside of nioh (which itself is debatable) im not sure what other games have gotten anywhere close to soulsborne.

Additionally i'm not sure theres a huge market for a ton of monster hunter like games
 
Hamchan

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,966
I don't think it's so easy to just copy Souls. None of the games have come close to Souls in terms of quality.
 
Novocaine

Novocaine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,946
Honestly I'd put all of the MH clones on the same level as the Souls clones. None of them capture the same magic as the originals.

Although Soul Sacrifice Delta was really good, but it only took the basic premise of MH. Playing the game is vastly different to MH.
 
Weltall Zero

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I don't know what's weirder:
- Pretending Code Vein and The Surge "capture the magic" of Dark Souls or Bloodborne.
- Pretending making games like Code Vein and The Surge is "easy".
- Pretending Sekiro isn't a game by the same author as Dark Souls.
- Pretending Dauntless and Soul Sacrifice Delta doesn't exist.
- Pretending Soul Sacrifice Delta isn't better than many actual MH games.
Bizarro world thread to be sure. O_o
 
nicoga3000

nicoga3000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,975
Weltall Zero said:
- Pretending Dauntless and Soul Sacrifice Delta doesn't exist.
- Pretending Soul Sacrifice Delta isn't better than many actual MH games.
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I have been in and out of Dauntless since the pay-to-alpha phase. It's very lifeless and the gameplay feels hollow. It's not a bad game, but it's not the first game I'd tell someone interested in a MH clone to play.

Regarding SSΔ, I played the original and it was OK. I never played Δ, and the fact that its PSV exclusive hurts it so hard from what I hear.
 
Sande

Sande

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Oct 25, 2017
5,983
It's easier to make Souls-likes, but it's not easier to make good Souls-likes.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
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Aug 7, 2018
5,231
I think only Hollow Knight has come close to Souls-magic but it's still a very different game (2D and easier).
 
Van Bur3n

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
To be fair, there is still no developer who has captured what FromSoftware has done so well.
 
Cloud-Strife

Cloud-Strife

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 27, 2019
3,140
The combat is far superior on MHW.. is harder to mimic compared to the old formula of Souls Games.
 
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