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bangai-o

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,527
Why is it that race is regarded as some invisible force in Latin@ culture, when its manifestation is apparent not only in attitude but in social structure at large?"
It is not regarded as an invisible force is pretty much the simplest answer. You seem to be getting your conclusions only from a videogame forum. Issues of race in Latino culture have been and continue to be thoroughly discussed in academic discourse and in backyards of Latino families.
 

Tetrinski

Banned
May 17, 2018
2,915
Get this out of here. Wouldn't be surprised if a white person started this. And if not, it's stupid as hell.
Wtf?! Do you even know what you're talking about? The @ is part of the way the feminist movement expresses itself in Spanish, it has nothing to do with race, it's about gender and it applies to any Spanish word including Latino and Latina.

You can't stop being ignorant, but you can stop being a jerk.
 
OP
OP
Advance.Wars.Sgt.
Jun 10, 2018
8,824
I imagine the root of it is the values of European colonization becoming ingrained in the culture and persisting until the modern day. Still on that 90's style "we don't see race" shit too.
More specifically, it's the idea that as long as the ruling elite create and grant privileges to a newfound "buffer class" not afforded to their darker skinned peers, they'll consistently side with the elite and perpetuate those same antagonistic beliefs.

One of the most prominent and deadly examples of this is the Hutu/Tutsi strife which led to the Rwandan genocide.
 

Deleted member 46958

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
2,574
Wtf?! Do you even know what you're talking about? The @ is part of the way the feminist movement expresses itself in Spanish, it has nothing to do with race, it's about gender and it applies to any Spanish word including Latino and Latina.

You can't stop being ignorant, but you can stop being a jerk.

I stand corrected. I think it's still ridiculous. Just say Latino and Latina. Those of an older generation wouldn't add an @. It's just silly.

Just because something is considered feminist doesn't mean it automatically must be respected. The term is overused and diluted anyway. Speaking as a Latino himself.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,898
JP
It's so horrible how we haven't been able to outgrow the caste system after centuries of independence, in Mexico's case.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,585
For the second page to ReQuestionEra Latin ed.
Official Staff Communication
Please do not use this thread to discuss the terms Latino, Latinx, Latin@, etc. If you would like to discuss them, you may create a thread. Otherwise, please respect other posters' use of these terms.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
I'm Dominican too, and while racism does play a huge part in the conflict between Dominicans and Haitians, it is not the only thing (and probably not the main thing). I think its a mixture of racism, and also all of the times Haiti invaded Dominican Republic back in the 1800's. I mean, Dominican Republic is one of the view Latin American countries that gained its independence from a country other than Spain (it gained it from Haiti). Hence why you hear so many Dominicans saying Haitians coming to that side of the island as an 'invasion'.

That's not to say many Dominicans don't threat Haitians like crap, cause they do. Dominicans can and should do better by their neighboring country regardless of the past.

As an aside, I never understood people saying LatinX or Latin@. That stuff sounds really stupid if you try to say it in Spanish. It also completely destroys sentences because
most words in Spanish are gendered. You can't just drop a neutral term in the middle of a gendered sentence and think it will work.
no one tries to say it in spanish in any context i've seen. it's just yet another english thing that has no direct translation to the intending language

just saw staff post
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
For me this is a discussion that has been a long time coming, but that Gina Rodriguez thread finally pushed me over the edge.

The original topic of said thread was looking to explore why Gina Rodriguez not only has a habit of downplaying black representation in favor of Latin@ ones, but also why she never includes visibly black Latin@ as APART of latin@ representation.

And, true to form, when the very idea of her possibly harboring a racial duality animus towards darker skinned latin@ is questioned (intentional or otherwise), THAT discussion is summarily swept inside in order to partake in the semantically tangential argument of "latinx" usage.

This isn't the first time I've seen erasure of the Afro Latin@ experience in discussion treated as an afterthought, as I have on multiple instances brought this up to Latin@ members in other topics; some giving acknowledgement to the phenomena while others chalking it up to a difference in culture.

So maybe in this thread I can potentially receive some answers: Why is it that race is regarded as some invisible force in Latin@ culture, when its manifestation is apparent not only in attitude but in social structure at large?

My issue is.....the sentiments I express are not necessarily my own, but ARE the very real thoughts and words I've seen expressed by Afro Latin@ who struggle living in societies where they are considered neither black or Hispanic. And so when I see a topic that could have very well delved, if only a little, into why that is, only for it to derail into an essentially meaningless nonsequitur, all I'm left thinking is "Why?"
here you go my dude

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/black-in-latin-america/

watch every video. the answers to your questions lie within.

also, anyone saying they don't have race issues in their south/central american country are lying through their teeth or are embarrassingly sheltered.

edit: use this if PBS isn't working

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RlG4b3LV9o&list=PLDudsSkw6Ec-VRYZu14DE994iZbGzi7rA
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
User Warned: Ignoring Mod Post
To everyone saying "latin@s dont use x"

Visibilización de expresiones de género no binario
Se ha señalado que tanto la arroba (l@s) como el desdoblamiento (las/los) pueden servir para hacer referencia a los «sexos» que componen el binario de género, pero no contemplan las expresiones transexuales, transgéneros, intersexuales, travestis, y personas que se auto-perciben con un género no binario. Para hacer referencia este amplio universo de expresiones de género que rebasa la bi-categorización reduccionista de «varones» y «mujeres» se proponen otras formas:
Utilizar la letra equis (x) o el asterisco (*) para reemplazar las letras que denotan género en las palabras. Ejemplo lxs trabajadorxs; l*s trabajador*s. La critica que le cabe a esta fórmula es que no se puede, o es muy forzado de utilizar en la expresion oral. Usar otra vocal en lugar de las que denotan género. Se ha difundido el uso de la vocal e. Ejemplo: Nosotres.[42][43] Esta fórmula admite su uso en la expresión oral.

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenguaje_no_sexista

It's used, even if criticized sometimes
 

Sokrates

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
560
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory commentary, ignoring modpost, and numerous accumulated infractions
The moment I hear someone say Latinx or Chicanx, I know their opinion isn't worth anything and that they're either not Latino or too Americanized.

Seriously, Spanish and other Romance languages having o/a hasn't been a problem for centuries or at all. It only became a problem in the United States with boutique white liberals and their lackeys who are sometimes ashamed to be Latino.

Say Latinx and you'll be laughed out of a Latino household.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
User Banned (1 Day): Ignoring Mod Post
The moment I hear someone say Latinx or Chicanx, I know their opinion isn't worth anything and that they're either not Latino or too Americanized.

Seriously, Spanish and other Romance languages having o/a hasn't been a problem for centuries or at all. It only became a problem in the United States with boutique white liberals and their lackeys who are sometimes ashamed to be Latino.

Say Latinx and you'll be laughed out of a Latino household.
My sentiments exactly
 
Jan 15, 2019
4,393
I mean, colorism is real. I think that sums up the OP's question. Pretty much all light skin people, in aggregate, would rather not talk about race because there's not much personal benefit for them in doing so.


Dumb question: is there a reason to not use "Latin" and just drop the o/a/x/@ altogether?
 

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,478
Official Staff Communication
Please do not use this thread to discuss the terms Latino, Latinx, Latin@, etc. If you would like to discuss them, you may create a thread. Otherwise, please respect other posters' use of these terms.

Can we get an official staff communication in the Gina Rodriguez thread as well? It's like the Wild West up in there.
 

Riboflavin

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
265
The moment I hear someone say Latinx or Chicanx, I know their opinion isn't worth anything and that they're either not Latino or too Americanized.

Seriously, Spanish and other Romance languages having o/a hasn't been a problem for centuries or at all. It only became a problem in the United States with boutique white liberals and their lackeys who are sometimes ashamed to be Latino.

Say Latinx and you'll be laughed out of a Latino household.

Got 'em.
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
The moment I hear someone say Latinx or Chicanx, I know their opinion isn't worth anything and that they're either not Latino or too Americanized.

Seriously, Spanish and other Romance languages having o/a hasn't been a problem for centuries or at all. It only became a problem in the United States with boutique white liberals and their lackeys who are sometimes ashamed to be Latino.

Say Latinx and you'll be laughed out of a Latino household.
My sentiments exactly
Both of you didn't even read what I wrote. Congratulations.
 

KillGore

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
548
Puerto Rico
User Banned (1 Day): Ignoring Modpost
Light skin Hispanics think they're better than dark skin Hispanics. It's simple, and doesn't need a detailed nuanced thread.

This is pretty much the gist of things. White hispanics just think they are better overall, just like white americans, or white canadiens, or white europeans, or white africans, or white asians. Pretty much a worldwide thing.

The moment I hear someone say Latinx or Chicanx, I know their opinion isn't worth anything and that they're either not Latino or too Americanized.

Seriously, Spanish and other Romance languages having o/a hasn't been a problem for centuries or at all. It only became a problem in the United States with boutique white liberals and their lackeys who are sometimes ashamed to be Latino.

Say Latinx and you'll be laughed out of a Latino household.

I know we aren't supposed to talk about this now but yeah....this pretty much sums it up. It feels like a different culture is trying to change your own language. Nowhere in Latin America is it common to use latinx or latin@s for implying a group of men and women. This is just how our language evolved throughout the years. It's fine if a language changes naturally but this feels way too forced. Im all in favor for political correctness, but this is just way too extreme. Let a language change naturally, some uses will die, others wont. New ones will appear. At least let the people who actually speak the language decide for themselves.
 

squallmx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
198
User Banned (1 Day): Ignoring Modpost
This is pretty much the gist of things. White hispanics just think they are better overall, just like white americans, or white canadiens, or white europeans, or white africans, or white asians. Pretty much a worldwide thing.



I know we aren't supposed to talk about this now but yeah....this pretty much sums it up. It feels like a different culture is trying to change your own language. Nowhere in Latin America is it common to use latinx or latin@s for implying a group of men and women. This is just how our language evolved throughout the years. It's fine if a language changes naturally but this feels way too forced. Im all in favor for political correctness, but this is just way too extreme. Let a language change naturally, some uses will die, others wont. New ones will appear. At least let the people who actually speak the language decide for themselves.

Same, feels too forced and unnatural, another type of American imperialism.
 

Sokrates

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
560
On colorism: Yeah it's an undeniable problem endemic among Latinos and other minorities. It's a symptom of the castas system and other forms of white supremacy.

For example, it's not unusual among white Latinos to make jokes at the expense of dark-skinned Latinos and it's common for telenovelas to have an all-white cast. Like someone said, it's like watching an NBC sitcom in Spanish.

There's also colorism in other countries colonized by the Spanish. One of my Filipino friends mentioned in passing "making fun of darker skinned Filipinos" as well as using skin-lightening creams. Needless to say I called her out for the former and got into an argument with her over the latter (Probably shouldn't have compared her to Sammy Sosa lol).

All of this colorism is a lingering effect of the Spanish colonial hierarchy it's needs to be dealt with with grace and an effort to educate ourselves.
 
OP
OP
Advance.Wars.Sgt.
Jun 10, 2018
8,824
here you go my dude

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/black-in-latin-america/

watch every video. the answers to your questions lie within.

also, anyone saying they don't have race issues in their south/central american country are lying through their teeth or are embarrassingly sheltered.

edit: use this if PBS isn't working

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RlG4b3LV9o&list=PLDudsSkw6Ec-VRYZu14DE994iZbGzi7rA
Oh I know all about the PBS documentary series : It was something I looked forward to watching the first time they were released.

On a similar note, looking into the history of the Girafuna people in college - a nomadic black Carib population that's been exiled in different countries - was an eye-opening learning experience particularly because of how "othered" they're considered despite their Taino ancestry.
 

LosDaddie

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,622
Longwood, FL
Latinos come from a continent with ~700m people ranging from blond and blue-eyed Argentineans to Afrolatino Caribbeans. Latinos don't consider themselves similar to each other e.g. I am Peruvian and grew up in Peru. I was never taught or told I had some sort of racial/ethnic brotherhood with say, people from Mexico, Puerto Rico, or even countries close by like Ecuador. With some countries, we even had rivalries. I was Peruvian and that's it.

Correct.

Like I say every time a liberal starts these threads (or they wonder why we don't all vote the same); Hispanics are not a monolith. Very diverse.
 

Malverde

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
My issue is.....the sentiments I express are not necessarily my own, but ARE the very real thoughts and words I've seen expressed by Afro Latin@ who struggle living in societies where they are considered neither black or Hispanic. And so when I see a topic that could have very well delved, if only a little, into why that is, only for it to derail into an essentially meaningless nonsequitur, all I'm left thinking is "Why?"

I mean, discrimination based on color is a thing worldwide, and Latin America is no different. "Prieto" is not an uncommon word used in a string of rapid fire insults. The phrase "trabajando como negro para vivir como blanco" (working like a black man to live like a white man) will be said with people not quite understanding why it is problematic. Some of it is malice but a lot of it is firmly rooted in ignorance. Look at all the pictures of Mexicans doing "asian eyes" after Korea saved us this past World Cup. I bet dollars to donuts a good chunk of them didn't realize how incredibly offensive that was. Those are just norms that are going to take time to break, like toxic masculinity. That eurocentric view of beauty is everywhere, Latin America is no different. There are plenty of people working on it within our community, but this shit takes time.

I can't speak for the Afro Latino experience personally (I have green eyes and Jalisco blood), but I do find it interesting you saying some feel that society does not consider them Latino or Black. At least in California, as long as you speak Spanish then you are Latino, and there is something of an instant connection you are able to make in a way that you can't with others (regardless of place of origin). Customs and even word choice might vary but the experience navigating this country will be similar.

If anything I would be more interested in hearing about the experience of brown skinned Latinos who grew up in the US and don't speak Spanish (because their parents didn't want them to in a misguided quest to help them assimilate). That has got to be a rough and alienating experience.
 

Objektivity

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
1,058
I'm Mexican-American so afro-mexicans aren't that much of thing among Mexicans yeah you have some in Veracruz, Oaxaca and a few other places.
Anyways I don't really know what I'm getting at but I've come across some afro latin@s that I thought were African until they spoke spanish and my perception instantly changed. It's like a switch flipped and I thought these are my people where as before I didn't. I'm all for more Afro Latin@ and dark skinned Latin@ representation in Hollywood.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,666
I really don't agree with this but I'm Brazilian where race has always been an issue. That's the problem with using Latino as a blanket term. Too many different countries and cultures are incorporated where you'll get some countries that turn a blind eye to that and some where it makes up a major part of our culture.
yeah, if you start by pretending it's all one culture or ethnicity you are already bound to get the wrong conclusions
 

Objektivity

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
1,058
yeah, if you start by pretending it's all one culture or ethnicity you are already bound to get the wrong conclusions
No one is pretending it's all one culture but in America it's different we're from everywhere but we share a common experience as immigrants or sons and daughters of immigrants and Spanish binds us as brothers and sisters
 

Thurston Last

Banned
Jul 26, 2018
1,350
User Banned (3 Days): Disregarding Mod Post, Low Effort Post, Trolling
x @x@x@ @x@x @x@x@ x@x@x@x@x@x@ @x @x@x@x
 

tsampikos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,613
Apathy or anger.

Others outside our community don't give a shit about what we have to say and if they do its usually because there are fucks out there trying to slap us down telling us we're representing our interests wrong.

So we keep to ourselves about these issues. We talk about it. We just don't want to talk about it with other people.

The real answer that we keep to ourseleves is usually fuck off, it doesnt concern you. Our local communities are usually enough to sustain themselves so keep us and our issues out of your fucking mouths until we figure shit out that works for us on our own accord.

People don't like that answer though. It gets challenged. So we shut down.

After enough time it just turns to apathy.

We arent any one race or one culture. Every instance is highly specific. We are tired of being put to task about issues that don't apply to us. We need more understanding of our intersectionality before we can even begin talking with outsiders.
 
Last edited:

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,011
Latinos come from a continent with ~700m people ranging from blond and blue-eyed Argentineans to Afrolatino Caribbeans. Latinos don't consider themselves similar to each other e.g. I am Peruvian and grew up in Peru. I was never taught or told I had some sort of racial/ethnic brotherhood with say, people from Mexico, Puerto Rico, or even countries close by like Ecuador. With some countries, we even had rivalries. I was Peruvian and that's it.

As you can probably imagine, there is plenty of color-based racism inside each country which translates to the immigrants who move to the US. Some Latino countries have a very small amount of African immigrants so there's more ignorance about them and their struggles. Even in the US, I didn't see any Afrolatinos until I moved to NYC (and I used to live in Texas).
I feel like South and Central America need to be covered extensively in US schools because to American whites Latinos are a monolith.
 

gdt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,467
It's because we're not raised with the concept of race. Here in the states you have to specify what race you're when you fill government documents. In Latam (or at least in my country) such thing does not exists. We don't take into account race. The whitest girl can date the darkest dude and no one it's gonna say a damn thing. It's just normal.

My mom is white as hell, my dad is black as fuck lol. I'm just a bit darker than my mom.

My siblings and I have all kind of colors.

I'm sorry this is nuts.

As a super light skinned (white basically) Dominican, I've seen some shit man. There is a torrent of race issues around there. See the same thing in Puerto Rico. Heard of the same issues in Cuba, Columbia, Brazil, etc.