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Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
User Warned: Trolling / Antagonistic Behavior
Lmao the steam defense force is so strong on Era.

While Epic still needs to get some shit sorted out (like proper regional pricing, wtf Epic?) valve has been coasting on goodwill forever. Based on the pathetic replies of people coming to the defense of Steam on here, it seems like they can still do that.

Yeah I know devs can sell keys outside of steam for 100% profit but we all know the reality is that the storefront is what generates the money.
 

Edward

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
5,114
The console manufacturers are in closed systems. This is why they can do so. No competition on their platforms.



This is a strange argument: no one else does this good thing Epic is doing so why should Steam?



Good lord some of you are defensive.
Or we are wondering why everyone only targets Steam when everyone does this? It's a 2 way street.
 

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,492
Indonesia
What lame Excuse does Epic have for making poorer countries pay 3 times more for games?
Well it just starting out. I assume they will expand to more region sooner or later. Valve and Sony also didnt have Indonesian store when they starts. There are many other store that still didnt have regional store. GOG and Humble store don have it if im not mistaken.
 

elelunicy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
175
Fortnite and Tencent's money is subsiding all of this.
Yeah cause they would lose money with "only" a 12% cut and totally need subsidies.
Valve would survive just fine with a 88/12 split, but why would they ever do that? Just look at these forums and how many people are defending them.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
Lmao the steam defense force is so strong on Era.

While Epic still needs to get some shit sorted out (like proper regional pricing, wtf Epic?) valve has been coasting on goodwill forever. Based on the pathetic replies of people coming to the defense of Steam on here, it seems like they can still do that.

Yeah I know devs can sell keys outside of steam for 100% profit but we all know the reality is that the storefront is what generates the money.
Basically devs get less sales elsewhere than on Steam even if they can generate keys to get all the profit. Therefore, they should take their games off of Steam so that they can get more money not making those sales.

VAFWmIk.png
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
Basically who cares if devs can get all the money using other stores with keys they can generate since they get less sales if they're not on Steam. Therefore, they should take their games and put them not on Steam so that they can get more money not making those sales.

VAFWmIk.png
That isn't what I said. Don't twist my words to fit your narrative. I'm saying, yes they have that option but let's not act like that's a good substitute for the nice split they're giving giant publishers/devs versus everyone else.
 

Colossal Moo

Member
Jan 13, 2018
213
This seems like a disingenuous premise for a thread with no actual intent for conversation.

Anyone who actually follows this shit knows that Valve allows devs to get 100% of the revenue from the keys they generate and sell off-Steam.
And itch.io with their variable cut has been a thing for 5 years or so.



But it doesn't actually matter because Epic is totally breaking ground on this brand new thing that no one else has ever done before at all.

The massive uproar over Epic's announcement make it very clear that that Valve, Valve's surrogates and Valve's fans are very angry. This is new. Here is what is new:

1) Epic is a very well run company.

2) Epic made one of the most successful engines in gaming history.

3) Epic has made a lot of successful franchises including Unreal Tournament, Gears of War and now Fortnite. Very few companies have had as many hits as Epic has had or have survived as long as Epic has survived.

4) Epic's business plan is sound. They are attacking Valve on multiple fronts including price (12% cut), exclusives (want a great game, you have to come to our store to get it), store design (give customers a better shopping experience and give developers a better selling experience), etc.

5) Epic isn't going to give up after a few months. This is a very long term investment for them.

I don't think Valve and its supporters are happy about this and that is why you see so much outrage on this forum. Epic's announcement is a very standard announcement. The reaction on this forum is bizarre and over the top. The reason for this is Valve is facing one of the biggest attacks on its main business and this attack is coming from an organization which is well run and sophisticated. Valve and its supporters do not like this threat and they reacted by with anger and vitriol.
 

TheClaw7667

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
Sony makes hardware. They support the hardware, do R&D for new consoles, carry out repairs etc. console hardware doesn't make that much money, so they rely on this cut to make most of the money.

Valve doesn't make the hardware their games run on. Much lower overhead.

There's your difference.
Yeah I'm sure Sony makes very little money on every peripheral device sold for the PS4. All those controllers and headsets are probably sold at a loss, and PS Plus subscription is also probably sold for a loss because that p2p online is very expensive to run.

That 30% is probably too generous they should take more for all they do.
 

Scoey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
230
I didn't know I could buy games on steam and give devs 100 percent cut.
How do I do that? Interested in a couple of games at the moment.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
That isn't what I said. Don't twist my words to fit your narrative. I'm saying, yes they have that option but let's not act like that's a good substitute for the nice split they're giving giant publishers/devs versus everyone else.
It's not only a good substitute, it's a great one that more stores should be held to the standards of honestly.
 

ramoisdead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,604
I didn't know I could buy games on steam and give devs 100 percent cut.
How do I do that? Interested in a couple of games at the moment.

I'd suggest is to look up the dev of the game you like and see if they offer Steam keys on their website. While they have the power, not many do so since maybe it is too much to keep track on stuff like that on their own, which is why they just rely on the Steam store.

But devs do offer this practice.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I didn't know I could buy games on steam and give devs 100 percent cut.
How do I do that? Interested in a couple of games at the moment.

Buy on developer websites. So if you want say, the newest Stellaris DLC, buy it from Paradox's site, they give you a key that works on Steam.

It obviously is not a system that works perfectly (because not every dev can afford to sell keys directly) but it's nice it exists.
 

Ganado

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,176
Lmao the steam defense force is so strong on Era.

While Epic still needs to get some shit sorted out (like proper regional pricing, wtf Epic?) valve has been coasting on goodwill forever. Based on the pathetic replies of people coming to the defense of Steam on here, it seems like they can still do that.

Yeah I know devs can sell keys outside of steam for 100% profit but we all know the reality is that the storefront is what generates the money.
But if it is the storefront that generates money, doesn't that mean the FUD about visibility on Steam is false? Browsing a large list of large and flashy logos of games is not gonna help and it's just gonna get worse. So why the fuck did they not just kept on developing this store for a while before pushing it out like its hot?
 

ForgedByGeeks

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
601
Woodinville, WA
I wish I could have the fun you have with this stuff. I guess it's my fault for being born in a poorer region and I should just move to the US so I don't have to care about game prices and storefronts that don't care about me. Thanks for your life changing insight!

So, don't use Epics store. It sucks, but this is business.

I get that this makes it hard to acquire some games, but how is that really any different from other business?

I am about to fly back from Japan and am going to miss easy access to CC Lemon. Likewise I have about 30lbs of Manga and Light Novels for my wife that would cost almost 3x as much to import, if you could even get them. Let alone the Dojinshi.

On the bright side, it seems reasonable to assume that Epic will eventually add more currency options to their store. I wish I could say the same about the odds of Suntory selling my favorite beverage in the States.
 

HP_Wuvcraft

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,267
South of San Francisco
Valve gives the option of 100% revenue to devs if they want it, while still availing them of Steam's extensive services. Considerably more generous than Epic.
Yes and no.

They highly, highly discourage devs from going outside of Steam, and even when you do bundle, it honestly does hurt you if you're not careful, since more and more people look at external data sites for sales.

Saying that Valve themselves offer 100% revenue is wrong.
 

deejay

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
453
What we'll see with Epic's practices:

- Prices will remain the same, maybe even rise for indies since they're hungry for more money. Which is ridiculous, but true. Don't for a minute believe the prices will get lowered, ever, even though they get a much larger share of the revenue.
- This also means you most likely can't get cheap keys like you can with Steam.
- Fragmented markets (why not release on Steam *and* Epic (and more)?). Gotta chase that money.
 
OP
OP
Armadilo

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
SO what's OP's excuse for making this lame thread when he clearly doesn't want any actual conversation?
I guess I'm reading all the answers from people and learning while trying to get some answers to the question and the reason why I created the thread was in the first post and it was valid, if this wasn't thread worthy then the mods would have closed it by now
 

Colossal Moo

Member
Jan 13, 2018
213
I wish I could have the fun you have with this stuff. I guess it's my fault for being born in a poorer region and I should just move to the US so I don't have to care about game prices and storefronts that don't care about me. Thanks for your life changing insight!

Really? This is an incredibly disingenuous post and you know it. I never said I wanted people to pay more for video games. What I said was I was amazed people were fighting to give more money to a group of 500 people living in one of the wealthiest areas of the Untied States. I also find it hilarious that people are outraged about a store opening.

Now, I can see how you would like to pay less for video games. I think you will find that Epic will help you in the future. They will implement regional pricing because it makes sense (regional pricing allows stores to make more money) and they eventually have lower prices because they take a smaller cut. If the cut decreases, the prices gamers pay will also decrease.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
lmao ok. I would reiterate my point but the Steam defense force is notoriously bad at criticizing Steam, so I'm done.
It's amusing that you would attribute me to being on some Steam defense force, as I imagine if you went around the PC thread on here (I reckon you don't take a gander there too often) I wouldn't be surprised if the folks there would have a different description for my stance on Steam.

But I suppose pointing out pretty significant platform perks that should be universal isn't as interesting as criticizing for simply taking a status quo cut while generally offering more for it.
 
OP
OP
Armadilo

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
I especially appreciate those that share their opinion on this topic and tried to answer my question compared to the replies in the first page in which I believe most only read the title and posted
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I guess I'm reading all the answers from people and learning while trying to get some answers to the question and the reason why I created the thread was in the first post and it was valid, if this wasn't thread worthy then the mods would have closed it by now

I'm sure you'll be back tomorrow with well reasoned thoughts.

I'm not arguing for it to be closed, I'm just arguing that you're disingenuous. Most people that actually want a conversation don't tend to ask loaded questions like you did. It's like asking "Why does Nintendo only make games for babies?"
 

ramoisdead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,604
I guess I'm reading all the answers from people and learning while trying to get some answers to the question and the reason why I created the thread was in the first post and it was valid, if this wasn't thread worthy then the mods would have closed it by now

Oh so "just asking questions" instead of looking up the many threads about this over the past few days.

Which begs the question, why do you glorify Epic Games Store policies when you don't have 100% of the full story???
 

Kurt Russell

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,504
Really? This is an incredibly disingenuous post and you know it. I never said I wanted people to pay more for video games. What I said was I was amazed people were fighting to give more money to a group of 500 people living in one of the wealthiest areas of the Untied States. I also find it hilarious that people are outraged about a store opening.

Now, I can see how you would like to pay less for video games. I think you will find that Epic will help you in the future. They will implement regional pricing because it makes sense (regional pricing allows stores to make more money) and they eventually have lower prices because they take a smaller cut. If the cut decreases, the prices gamers pay will also decrease.

I don't see how is it disingenuous. You dismissed a lot of very legitimate complaints with a "hey, I'm having fun reading fanboys" post. And I don't believe in stuff until it happens. The guy who made their store said in the past that regional pricing is very important, yet he chose to launch with support for just 8 currencies (and way worse prices than Steam for regions like Russia). I don't see a guarantee that Argentina will even be supported anytime soon there.
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
Lmao the steam defense force is so strong on Era.

While Epic still needs to get some shit sorted out (like proper regional pricing, wtf Epic?) valve has been coasting on goodwill forever. Based on the pathetic replies of people coming to the defense of Steam on here, it seems like they can still do that.

Are you summarizing this thread as for and against Steam? Which side is mutually exclusive with supporting the rest of the industry's storefront practices?
 
OP
OP
Armadilo

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
I'm sure you'll be back tomorrow with well reasoned thoughts.

I'm not arguing for it to be closed, I'm just arguing that you're disingenuous. Most people that actually want a conversation don't tend to ask loaded questions like you did. It's like asking "Why does Nintendo only make games for babies?"
The topic is an important one in my opinion, how am I disingenuous though ? Like i'm being called out for bringing something which I don't believe am the only one who believes that valve can do more for developers since they are the leader when it comes to PC gaming,

Why not answer the question, you could have said that valve doesn't have to because epic games store is barely new or that Steam couldn't afford such a split but instead you call me out and that's your first post, you don't even answer or reply to the thread with a meaningful reply.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,315
Really? This is an incredibly disingenuous post and you know it. I never said I wanted people to pay more for video games. What I said was I was amazed people were fighting to give more money to a group of 500 people living in one of the wealthiest areas of the Untied States. I also find it hilarious that people are outraged about a store opening.

Now, I can see how you would like to pay less for video games. I think you will find that Epic will help you in the future. They will implement regional pricing because it makes sense (regional pricing allows stores to make more money) and they eventually have lower prices because they take a smaller cut. If the cut decreases, the prices gamers pay will also decrease.



How do you decrease the price if you decrease the cut of the store ?
Because if you reduce the price of the product as a whole, the cut remains the same but the revenue drops.
I'll give you a quick exemple:
We have a 20 dollars game, sold on GreenManGaming and another 20 dollars game sold on Epic Store.
With the 30% cut of GMG, the devs perceive 14 dollars on that game. On Epic Store with 12% cut, 17.4 dollars.
Now because GMG wants to be more appealing to other stores, they'll discount the game on their own cut, by 20%. Which means they'll sell the game for 16 dollars while the devs still get their 14 dollars (so, in the end, 88% of 16 dollars.)
But on Epic Store, what leverage is there to drop the price ? It'll always be more expensive, unless the devs accept to eat on their own cut and if they want to price match it... They'll have to take 4 dolllars out of their own cut. Which means in the end, they'll get 13.4 dollars if they want to sell it for 16 dollars. So either they accept a worse deal or the price remains the same.

Feel free to correct my math if I made a mistake though, I'll humbly accept it.
 

Ganado

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,176
Really? This is an incredibly disingenuous post and you know it. I never said I wanted people to pay more for video games. What I said was I was amazed people were fighting to give more money to a group of 500 people living in one of the wealthiest areas of the Untied States. I also find it hilarious that people are outraged about a store opening.

Now, I can see how you would like to pay less for video games. I think you will find that Epic will help you in the future. They will implement regional pricing because it makes sense (regional pricing allows stores to make more money) and they eventually have lower prices because they take a smaller cut. If the cut decreases, the prices gamers pay will also decrease.
I don't think most people wants Steam to keep their share. While it does benefit consumers due to other stores being able to sell the games at a discount from the start, my absolutely biggest problem with this store is that it's undercooked garbage. No genres? Why is Shadow Complex, one of few games actually released at the bottom? Why clogging up the store with unreleased games? Why no features in the client (I reinstalled Fortnite some days ago to test it out once again with a friend and there was no way for him to see where he had it installed and the updating took 40 mins vs 15 that I downloaded fresh)? They shouldn't have pushed this client yet, give it some years to develop, but no. They got greedy.

Also, your last point it most likely false. They did this to get more money, not the same. Don't try to fool anyone.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,619
As the leader in the PC market, honestly this should've been something Valve pushed forward themselves (88/12) as opposed to try to lure AAA market back with their tiered approach. Maybe it'll catch on though, Valve does seem to at least listen to feedback which is more than you can say for a lot of other stores.
 

Deleted member 1759

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,582
Europe
Yeah I'm sure Sony makes very little money on every peripheral device sold for the PS4. All those controllers and headsets are probably sold at a loss, and PS Plus subscription is also probably sold for a loss because that p2p online is very expensive to run.

That 30% is probably too generous they should take more for all they do.
Don't forget the cuts they take from every physical copy sold.
they eventually have lower prices because they take a smaller cut
Oh my sweet summer child.
 
OP
OP
Armadilo

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
Oh so "just asking questions" instead of looking up the many threads about this over the past few days.

Which begs the question, why do you glorify Epic Games Store policies when you don't have 100% of the full story???
Well if you read the first post on this thread, I wrote that the most recent thing that valve did was help certain games that sold a lot get more money and the problem with that was that indie devs felt that steam could instead be doing more for them instead of certain games who already sell a lot.

Like guys I wrote the information in the first post in which maybe I wasn't as clear but Steam could probably have the same split as epic if they wanted to, if they want to help certain games that sell a lot earn more money, then why not just do it for everybody
 

Cecil

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,449
I'm sure that they 88% cut is amazing for devs (if the store actually gets a big enough userbase that actually buys other games, and not just play Fortnite).

But how many of us are devs? We're customers, and that part isn't really what makes a store amazing for us.
 

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
Epic is probably doing this as an introductory way to get games on their store. Once the store is established they will probably increase their margin
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,076
Lmao the steam defense force is so strong on Era.

While Epic still needs to get some shit sorted out (like proper regional pricing, wtf Epic?) valve has been coasting on goodwill forever. Based on the pathetic replies of people coming to the defense of Steam on here, it seems like they can still do that.

Yeah I know devs can sell keys outside of steam for 100% profit but we all know the reality is that the storefront is what generates the money.

What's there to defend? Steam is the standard that Epic's store needs to measure up to. If anything, Epic's decision to launch with no real strategy outside of "a better cut for devs" (which consumers couldn't care less about) is the thing that needs defending. Pretending Valve are evil or something because they have a well-liked store, and ignoring the work they've done with things like Proton, controller customization, in-home streaming, and VR, just makes people slamming them look silly.
 

ForgedByGeeks

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
601
Woodinville, WA
I don't think most people wants Steam to keep their share. While it does benefit consumers due to other stores being able to sell the games at a discount from the start, my absolutely biggest problem with this store is that it's undercooked garbage. No genres? Why is Shadow Complex, one of few games actually released at the bottom? Why clogging up the store with unreleased games? Why no features in the client (I reinstalled Fortnite some days ago to test it out once again with a friend and there was no way for him to see where he had it installed and the updating took 40 mins vs 15 that I downloaded fresh)? They shouldn't have pushed this client yet, give it some years to develop, but no. They got greedy.

Also, your last point it most likely false. They did this to get more money, not the same. Don't try to fool anyone.

That's like arguing Apple shouldn't have released the iPhone without a store and instead let the product bake for a while and given it years to develop.

After all, Windows Mobile and Blackberry already had stores with Handango and the like that were available in more countries and supported their local currency.

Meanwhile Apple launched US Only, no store (less features than competitors), took a bigger profit margin, and we're exclusive to just 1 retailer (ATT).

So many people here do not understand how business works. If people like this made decisions on when to launch billion dollar products and services, none of them would ever launch.
 
Nov 1, 2017
848
It's cute that you think you're giving more money to devs, when that's only true for indie devs who also happen to be their own publishers, and if that's who you want to support then why wouldn't you just go via itch.io and let them have 100%?
 
OP
OP
Armadilo

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
As the leader in the PC market, honestly this should've been something Valve pushed forward themselves (88/12) as opposed to try to lure AAA market back with their tiered approach. Maybe it'll catch on though, Valve does seem to at least listen to feedback which is more than you can say for a lot of other stores.
I'm sure that they 88% cut is amazing for devs (if the store actually gets a big enough userbase that actually buys other games, and not just play Fortnite).

But how many of us are devs? We're customers, and that part isn't really what makes a store amazing for us.

I appreciate your replies and time, I actually believed that Steam would of been the first to do this , So hopefully something happens and Epic starts the shift for better revenue splits, first on PC and hopefully, eventually on consoles but I believe Microsoft might do something first soon since they do seem different and more developer friendly . The only thing that impacts the consumer is that more money for devs might help keep them afloat and struggling studios might be better than before, a little extra help never hurts.
 

Colossal Moo

Member
Jan 13, 2018
213

Do you have a real argument or are you just going to rely on name calling/emoji non-arguments? I give an example of how lowering the cut lowers the price a gamer pays. Lets say a developer wants to put a game on sale and the developer wants to get $5 for the game. With a 30% cut, the developer would have to charge about $7.25 for the game because 70% of $7.25 is $5.08. If the cut is only 12%, the developer only has to charge about $5.75 because 88% of $5.75 is $5.06. The main point is in both cases the developer makes about the same amount of money but the customer saves $1.50 because the cut was lowered by %18. This shows lowering the cut can save gamers money.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,641
I especially appreciate those that share their opinion on this topic and tried to answer my question compared to the replies in the first page in which I believe most only read the title and posted

Surprise: posting an inflammatory title gets you shitty responses!

I want to be charitable to Epic here: increasing revshare for publishers is great for them, and I think the underlying question is worth posing: do storefronts do enough to warrant a 30% cut. That's not actually what you asked, and your original title heavily implied you felt Steam was acting in bad faith, but let's set that aside since that's no longer the title of the thread.

Valve wasn't alone in deciding on a 30% cut; as mentioned countless times before, that's an industry standard across multiple storefronts, both on consoles and on PC. And it's worth remembering that back when digital was relatively new, that 70% cut to publishers was seen as a good thing. OnLive published a graph back in 2010 showing the standard retail cut for publishers; it's under 50%. The store, meanwhile, took in 25% after costs. That 70-30 revshare, then, is pretty close to what the retail share would look like once you cut out costs that didn't really apply to digital: distribution, returning unsold inventory (note that "returns", shrinkage, etc.

Fast forward 8 years, and some publishers have decided they want more. Some of them have started their own stores to cut Valve out entirely, and Epic is on record saying they think the service digital storefronts provide to publishers isn't worth 30%. That's fair of them to say, and there's a real debate to be had about whether Steam's additional benefits are worth the higher cut, or whether publishers will prefer Epic's approach, and what consumers will do when faced with that choice (as well as when that choice is taken away due to exclusives). But Valve didn't come up with that 30% figure out of nowhere and they're not automatically bullies for sticking to a figure that's been in use for a long time.

It's also worth noting that revshare is one part of a larger equation. Ultimately what matters for everyone is revenue; higher revshare with a smaller audience may still be unpalatable. If it wasn't, everyone would be on Itch.io. (Everyone should be on Itch.io, probably! They seem like a nice store.) Epic's big challenge is in increasing its market share rapidly so that Steam's biggest competitive advantage is blunted. But even beyond that, other aspects of a storefront can impact the bottom line. As mentioned elsewhere on the forum, regional pricing is still in flux. And while it's too early to say whether the higher regional prices on Epic's storefront are just part of the chaos of launch or representative of Epic store policy, it's pretty obvious that pricing differences will lead to countries deciding to avoid one store over another if they're allowed to remain for too long.

Another aspect I think is worth highlighting: if publishers are suddenly making 88% off each sale versus 70%, publishers have more freedom to set prices, especially during sales. This is the exact same phenomenon third-party stores like Green Man Gaming and Fanatical have been exploiting for years, except with the store cut: take less than the usual 30% cut, and pass the savings on to the customer. Given that even EA, who famously said a few years back that Origin was no place for massive discounts, have since placed their games on massive discounts on multiple occasions, it's not hard to imagine publishers taking advantage of the same phenomenon to offer lower prices on the Epic storefront versus Steam as a loss-leading measure to get people used to buying on Epic and raking in the rewards if people start buying games at full price on the service. Ubisoft has done this in the past, discounting their games more on UPlay versus Steam.

Basically, all of this is to say that it's a complicated business and we don't know how anything will play out yet. I think a lot of the vitriol is way over the top and unwarranted and I wish everyone would just chill out and stop accusing each other of being part of some defense force or another. There are a lot of ways this could go and not all of them are terrible for Jane Game-Player.

Well if you read the first post on this thread, I wrote that the most recent thing that valve did was help certain games that sold a lot get more money and the problem with that was that indie devs felt that steam could instead be doing more for them instead of certain games who already sell a lot.

Like guys I wrote the information in the first post in which maybe I wasn't as clear but Steam could probably have the same split as epic if they wanted to, if they want to help certain games that sell a lot earn more money, then why not just do it for everybody

I mean, it's pretty obvious, isn't it? The biggest threat to Steam right now is big publishers taking their ball and going home to their own storefronts. Realistically, indie games can't avoid Steam if they want to reach a wide audience, so Steam doesn't give a shit about increasing their revshare because they're a captive audience. Epic, meanwhile, has a vested interest in indies for two reasons: first, publishers like Annapurna provide prestige to the store while being more attainable than the Ubisofts and Take-Twos of the world. But also second, because Epic also owns Unreal Engine, and boy if you don't think there's going to be some kind of vertical integration play there at some point, I have a bridge to sell you. They've been trying to court indies for a long time in a bid to take away business from Unity, so it makes sense that their pitch would be focused more on indies versus Steam's attempt to address the top end of the market.
 
Last edited:

ramoisdead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,604
I appreciate your replies and time, I actually believed that Steam would of been the first to do this , So hopefully something happens and Epic starts the shift for better revenue splits, first on PC and hopefully, eventually on consoles but I believe Microsoft might do something first soon since they do seem different and more developer friendly . The only thing that impacts the consumer is that more money for devs might help keep them afloat and struggling studios might be better than before, a little extra help never hurts.

News flash, Microsoft has been scooping up studios left and right in order to keep up for the next gen. They aren't going to lower their cut just cuz the Epic Games Store did.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,315
Do you have a real argument or are you just going to rely on name calling/emoji non-arguments? I give an example of how lowering the cut lowers the price a gamer pays. Lets say a developer wants to put a game on sale and the developer wants to get $5 for the game. With a 30% cut, the developer would have to charge about $7.25 for the game because 70% of $7.25 is $5.08. If the cut is only 12%, the developer only has to charge about $5.75 because 88% of $5.75 is $5.06. The main point is in both cases the developer makes about the same amount of money but the customer saves $1.50 because the cut was lowered by %18. This shows lowering the cut can save gamers money.



What's the incentive for the devs to do so when they're only in one store ?
 

Colossal Moo

Member
Jan 13, 2018
213
It's cute that you think you're giving more money to devs, when that's only true for indie devs who also happen to be their own publishers, and if that's who you want to support then why wouldn't you just go via itch.io and let them have 100%?

Why are you so interested in giving money to Valve? Please explain to me why giving money to Valve and its very well paid employess is so important to you?
 

Ganado

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,176
That's like arguing Apple shouldn't have released the iPhone without a store and instead let the product bake for a while and given it years to develop.

After all, Windows Mobile and Blackberry already had stores with Handango and the like that were available in more countries and supported their local currency.

Meanwhile Apple launched US Only, no store (less features than competitors), took a bigger profit margin, and we're exclusive to just 1 retailer (ATT).

So many people here do not understand how business works. If people like this made decisions on when to launch billion dollar products and services, none of them would ever launch.
So, you are saying it's smart by Epic to launch their store? It is the worst I've seen and I'd never use it. Just because Apple got away with it (and that's because it was a smartphone for regular consumers, not businesses like Blackberry and Windows Mobile, who are you trying to fool here?) doesn't mean Epic will.
 

ThisIsBlitz21

Member
Oct 22, 2018
4,662
Console gaming:
* console makers buys studios that previously had made games for all consoles, now just limited to one console*
"Awesome, I finally have a reason to buy this other $300 box"
PC Gaming:
*game not on their preferred launcher*
"This is blasphemy! Now I have to click another icon on my desktop, and wait an extra 15 seconds! Fuck outta here."

Aside from maybe regional pricing, I just don't see the issue. I just cant see how not having your whole library on one screen is worth such an outrage.