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Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
Well it's obvious that they're using that extra money to invest into their new games.
/s

There really isn't a good reason, but since they are the market leader by far nothing will change until they feel some heat from rival stores. I expect console platforms to increase dev payouts sometime next gen. Perhaps the mobile devs will follow but they deal with much more different price points compared to console/pc so I can understand a delay until they figure it out.

Why, out of the goodness of their hearts? They of all people have no reason to change anything. They have publishers by the balls at least until the streaming future takes off, then consoles will look just like PCs do now but worse since it'll be streaming too. I don't look forward to that day but at least it will be nice to see most of this place change its views on this stuff.
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
So people in those countries should be punished for what a handful of people attempt to do?

*looks at PC VR thread with thousands of posts* : that feature doesn't matter, it's niche, not many people care about it.

*looks at thread that talks about taking advantage of regional pricing with a couple of hundred posts* : everyone is doing it, this must be stopped!!!!
 

Scoey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
230
Shhhhh.

No facts please.



And that's a valid excuse? Because fuck the people who actually do live in those countries right?

Moreso a sad reality of the nature of business.

The idea of regional pricing is nice but hardly appealing to companies when you have widespead proof on forums like this one of first world gamers falling over themselves to buy from the russian/south american/south african/whatever eshop/psn/steam etc in order to avail of prices that have been set lower to help people who live in poorer economies and talking about it in threads like it's the same as price checking between your local gameshops.

Has been said many times, including on here that this would be the outcome, and here is more proof of that. Other proof is removing English etc from the versions of games sold in cheaper region which is common enough.
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,165
That's the thing that makes the Epic Games store amazing and basically stand out, It took Epic to finally give all developers the share of money that they deserve. If steam is the best place for gaming, why not give the developers a more modern split instead of living in the past.
Just to clarify, the entirety of a platform's worth is the revenue share split? So before the Epic Store, you found zero distinction between Steam, XBL, PSN, Origin, Uplay, Amazon, eShop?
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
I'm actually surprised not that many people are talking about the lack of a review system, and how that will also attract developers and publishers too since Steam's system keeps getting exploited through review bombs.

It's almost as if there are measures in place to notify users of when this is the case.

But its better to buy games without having any clue as to whether the game has any problems or not right?
 

Ganado

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,177
Moreso a sad reality of the nature of business.

The idea of regional pricing is nice but hardly appealing to companies when you have widespead proof on forums like this one of first world gamers falling over themselves to buy from the russian/south american/whatever eshop/psn/steam etc in order to avail of prices that have been set lower to help people who live in poorer economies and talking about it in threads like it's the same as price checking between your local gameshops.

Has been said many times, including on here that this would be the outcome, and here is more proof of that. Other proof is removing English etc from the versions of games sold in cheaper region which is common enough.
It's almost impossible now though on Steam. Epic will just have to make it impossible on their store too.
 

Deleted member 28076

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,147
Because Steam is significantly more fully-featured and lets you use engines that aren't Unity or UE4?
 

yyr

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,494
White Plains, NY
Copy-pasting myself from an earlier thread

I'm a one-man indie dev who just released their second title on Steam. Would I like to get more than 70% of the revenue? Sure. But for that 18% difference:
1) My games support integrated leaderboards--a critical feature in score-attack games like mine--and I don't have to run any servers.
2) My games support Xbox One/360, DualShock4, Switch Pro, and Steam Controllers, without me having to do anything.
3) My games have a set of Achievements.
4) My games support cloud saving.
5) My games can't be copied/pirated willy-nilly, because they can detect whether they're running through the Steam client, and they quit if they're not.
6) Steam Support has gotten back to me very quickly when I've encountered any issues, and they've been very thorough when reviewing my builds.

The price difference is justified imo. My customers get more and I get more.

If Epic offers comparable service in the future, that'd be awesome. I hope they do. But if not, then dollars aren't everything.
 

UltraJay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,580
Australia
Moreso a sad reality of the nature of business.

The idea of regional pricing is nice but hardly appealing to companies when you have widespead proof on forums like this one of first world gamers falling over themselves to buy from the russian/south american/south african/whatever eshop/psn/steam etc in order to avail of prices that have been set lower to help people who live in poorer economies and talking about it in threads like it's the same as price checking between your local gameshops.

Has been said many times, including on here that this would be the outcome, and here is more proof of that. Other proof is removing English etc from the versions of games sold in cheaper region which is common enough.
Except Steam has actually heavily locked down out of region buying and inter-region gifting. Far more than any other storefront in an attempt to PROTECT regional pricing. You are also misconstruing just how many people do this.

Valve literally opened markets that were deemed lost to rampant piracy through this policy. They showed that offering a better service catered to them would cause people to turn away from FREE games.
 

Devilgunman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,473
The better question is why Epic is giving the dev 88%. No, Epic doesn't give a fck about those dev. Epic is doing this to make their product competitive. How else do you think Epic could compete to the behemoth like Steam? And to answer the thread, Steam don't do it because they don't have to. They're the market leader for fck sake, by a country mile.They've been in this business since beginning. Why should they even care about what a newb like Epic store is doing?
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,525
The more I think about it the more I wonder if Epic isn't making devs bear the credit card transaction fee? That's 3-4% of a sale right off the top (probably on the higher end because it's a higher fraud market). 8% revenue is just an incredibly tight margin to be trying to run any kind of online presence off of.

Alternatively, Tencent is looking at losing a fortune to bankroll this in the short term and going to have to raise fees in the long run.
 

Zeroneo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
666
I think the ability of devs being able to generate keys and selling them in other stores, allowing them to make a deal to have a bigger share than Steam's one, is far more important than a single store having a 88% split.
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Copy-pasting myself from an earlier thread

I'm a one-man indie dev who just released their second title on Steam. Would I like to get more than 70% of the revenue? Sure. But for that 18% difference:
1) My games support integrated leaderboards--a critical feature in score-attack games like mine--and I don't have to run any servers.
2) My games support Xbox One/360, DualShock4, Switch Pro, and Steam Controllers, without me having to do anything.
3) My games have a set of Achievements.
4) My games support cloud saving.
5) My games can't be copied/pirated willy-nilly, because they can detect whether they're running through the Steam client, and they quit if they're not.
6) Steam Support has gotten back to me very quickly when I've encountered any issues, and they've been very thorough when reviewing my builds.

The price difference is justified imo. My customers get more and I get more.

If Epic offers comparable service in the future, that'd be awesome. I hope they do. But if not, then dollars aren't everything.

Thank you for posting this.

What is your game if you don't mind me asking?
 

Ganado

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,177
Wasn't aware of that.
How does steam etc now stop people making a different account in another region to buy cheaper games?
Well, you need a billing adress in the country you are buying from. Also, you aren't able to gift games to more expensive regions if the price is more than 15% higher in the receiving country. Trust me, the people that takes these steps are much much less than even .01%
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
SO what's OP's excuse for making this lame thread when he clearly doesn't want any actual conversation?
 

Scoey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
230
Well, you need a billing adress in the country you are buying from. Also, you aren't able to gift games to more expensive regions if the price is more than 15% higher in the receiving country. Trust me, the people that takes these steps are much much less than even .01%

Fair enough if it isn't as easy to get around as psn etc. To be honest recently I've mainly noticed it in relation to switch eshop pricing.
 

chubigans

Vertigo Gaming Inc.
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
Copy-pasting myself from an earlier thread

I'm a one-man indie dev who just released their second title on Steam. Would I like to get more than 70% of the revenue? Sure. But for that 18% difference:
1) My games support integrated leaderboards--a critical feature in score-attack games like mine--and I don't have to run any servers.
2) My games support Xbox One/360, DualShock4, Switch Pro, and Steam Controllers, without me having to do anything.
3) My games have a set of Achievements.
4) My games support cloud saving.
5) My games can't be copied/pirated willy-nilly, because they can detect whether they're running through the Steam client, and they quit if they're not.
6) Steam Support has gotten back to me very quickly when I've encountered any issues, and they've been very thorough when reviewing my builds.

The price difference is justified imo. My customers get more and I get more.

If Epic offers comparable service in the future, that'd be awesome. I hope they do. But if not, then dollars aren't everything.
Hell yeah, I'm so glad to see another dev who shares the same attitude with all this!
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
Fair enough if it isn't as easy to get around as psn etc. To be honest recently I've mainly noticed it in relation to switch eshop pricing.

And Nintendo Switch digital games are still incredibly successful despite how easy it is there. You're reading forums too much and it's skewing your perception. The type of person that's willing to bother with it is miniscule in number.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,703
Tel Aviv
What's Epic's excuse to only offering this better cut to only a small group of devs they chose, who are already the biggest in the indie field and made it big thanks to the open nature of Steam?
Also, itch already lets you set your own rev-share and Steam lets you generate free keys and sell them on your site or other stores with better rev-share. So while I'd love for steam to adopt 88/12, let's not pretend like Epic are some revolutionary savior of indies, OK?
 

Colossal Moo

Member
Jan 13, 2018
213
I love this thread. Almost every response is fighting for the Middle Man (Valve) and its right to collect 30% of each video game sale!! Valve employs about 500 people in one of most affluent parts of the United States of America (Bellevue Washington) and we literally have 95% of people on this forum fighting for them to get richer and fighting against Epic's plan to put more money back in the pockets of smaller developers who have less money and fewer resources. This is amazing and hilarious.

The other thing which is funny is how outraged everyone is over Epic opening a store. We have millions retails stores, millions of restaurants, hundreds of major chains and now having maybe a dozen video game stores on the PC is some sort of crisis? All can say is this thread (and a lot of other threads on this forum) deliver comedy gold!!
 

Parsnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,918
Finland
This seems like a disingenuous premise for a thread with no actual intent for conversation.

Anyone who actually follows this shit knows that Valve allows devs to get 100% of the revenue from the keys they generate and sell off-Steam.
And itch.io with their variable cut has been a thing for 5 years or so.



But it doesn't actually matter because Epic is totally breaking ground on this brand new thing that no one else has ever done before at all.
 

KratosEnergyDrink

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
Nothing Steam overs is worth the 30%. But they have some kind of monopol and by far the biggest audience from all PC stores.
 

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,369
It's almost as if there are measures in place to notify users of when this is the case.

But its better to buy games without having any clue as to whether the game has any problems or not right?

Except Steam doesn't actually have a system in place to stop review bombs from impacting it's percentage-based score? Rome II is still trying to recover.
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,638
Smaller developers with limited resources aren't who Epic are targeting for their store. They want to poach developers that have already proven themselves successful on Steam with an attractive profit split, the promise of high visibility among the fortnite audience and the occasional moneyhat.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
They dont need one. That's capitalism for you.

Epic is doing it because they are the underdogs. But if they had the monopoly like Steam does, maybe their share would be even higher than Valve's.

Unfortunately, I don't think that Epic Store will make a difference on the PC market on the long run. Moneyhatting games was not a good way to start. But we will see.

Exactly. I don't get why people constantly wonder why companies aren't being fair. It's not about being fair, it's about making money. That's how the world works in its current form.
 

bobnowhere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,533
Elsewhere for 8 minutes
This seems like a disingenuous premise for a thread with no actual intent for conversation.

Anyone who actually follows this shit knows that Valve allows devs to get 100% of the revenue from the keys they generate and sell off-Steam.
And itch.io with their variable cut has been a thing for 5 years or so.



But it doesn't actually matter because Epic is totally breaking ground on this brand new thing that no one else has ever done before at all.


Seems par for the course around here nowadays when it comes to steam.
 

Kurt Russell

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,514
Except Steam doesn't actually have a system in place to stop review bombs from impacting it's percentage-based score? Rome II is still trying to recover.

It has a graph that shows if a game got many negative/positive reviews in a short period of time. I believe it even offers a warning in those situations, but I could be wrong.

TaFTjUE.png


Valve is well aware that the vast majority of game sales are directly on Steam itself.

Giving this as an excuse is unbelievable.

Do you work for Valve?
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Then tell me something, Kratos. How much does Sony charge devs to be on their store?

Sony makes hardware. They support the hardware, do R&D for new consoles, carry out repairs etc. console hardware doesn't make that much money, so they rely on this cut to make most of the money.

Valve doesn't make the hardware their games run on. Much lower overhead.

There's your difference.
 

ForgedByGeeks

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
601
Woodinville, WA
I love this thread. Almost every response is fighting for the Middle Man (Valve) and its right to collect 30% of each video game sale!! Valve employs about 500 people in one of most affluent parts of the United States of America (Bellevue Washington) and we literally have 95% of people on this forum fighting for them to get richer and fighting against Epic's plan to put more money back in the pockets of smaller developers who have less money and fewer resources. This is amazing and hilarious.

The other thing which is funny is how outraged everyone is over Epic opening a store. We have millions retails stores, millions of restaurants, hundreds of major chains and now having maybe a dozen video game stores on the PC is some sort of crisis? All can say is this thread (and a lot of other threads on this forum) deliver comedy gold!!

Haha no kidding.

It's like seriously,the gall of Epic to try and open another store front that offers something different and signs exclusive deals.

It's such a new and amazing concept. It's not like Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo have never done this before.

Or Walmart, Gamestop, Best Buy, Frys, Bic Camera, Nordstrom, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc...

I mean, why would anyone open up another Ramen shop in Ikebukuro. Mendokoro Hanada already has the best Ramen in town. No one should compete with them and open another store. It is so hard to walk... Ohh wait, there is literally another Ramen shop in the same tiny structure. Ohh wait, they undercut on price and still can't fill the shop while MH has a line into the street. Ohh right it's super easy to just go next store just like it takes seconds to install another app on my PC to download and play games.
 

Kurt Russell

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,514
I love this thread. Almost every response is fighting for the Middle Man (Valve) and its right to collect 30% of each video game sale!! Valve employs about 500 people in one of most affluent parts of the United States of America (Bellevue Washington) and we literally have 95% of people on this forum fighting for them to get richer and fighting against Epic's plan to put more money back in the pockets of smaller developers who have less money and fewer resources. This is amazing and hilarious.

The other thing which is funny is how outraged everyone is over Epic opening a store. We have millions retails stores, millions of restaurants, hundreds of major chains and now having maybe a dozen video game stores on the PC is some sort of crisis? All can say is this thread (and a lot of other threads on this forum) deliver comedy gold!!

I wish I could have the fun you have with this stuff. I guess it's my fault for being born in a poorer region and I should just move to the US so I don't have to care about game prices and storefronts that don't care about me. Thanks for your life changing insight!
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
Valve is well aware that the vast majority of game sales are directly on Steam itself.

Giving this as an excuse is unbelievable.
What is unbelievable about pointing out a very developer positive feature that AFAIK other storefronts do not offer?

Comparing designing, building, marketing, selling, supporting etc etc a console to running steam seems pretty silly.
It is pretty silly given the sales of hardware, online play, and peripheral markups on consoles should be doing more to reduce the need of such a cut.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
haha guys if we type that I'm laughing after every sentence maybe someone will think there's a brain cell up in this cranium. LMAO
 

ramoisdead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,652
Sony makes hardware. They support the hardware, do R&D for new consoles, carry out repairs etc. console hardware doesn't make that much money, so they rely on this cut to make most of the money.

Valve doesn't make the hardware their games run on. Much lower overhead.

There's your difference.

I mean, you're right. Steam never offered Steam Workshop where mods are easily installed or Achievements or Cloud features or streaming or screenshot saves or a more robust Steam chat or regional pricing to help out countries that are afford to pay for games in the US equivalent price or the process of generating keys for free to do whatever they want with them.

Also " console hardware doesn't make that much money"?? It is how that make their money. And their first party exclusives.
 

Deleted member 41271

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 21, 2018
2,258
Gamer tribalism, like with anything stupid in gaming. Gamers are so tribal about everything, from genre to storefront to glowy plastic things they play games with, this much worship of a *store* was really just a matter of time. Normal people wouldn't demonize a higher cut for devs as much as a certain subset of steam fans does, but gamer tribalism will do that.

Just imagine this kind of hubbub among, say, among dollhouse enthusiasts. You can't. It's too silly a hill to fight on. Only gamers would even have this discussion to defend ~their~ store.

In any other hobby, the reaction would be "oh, cool" or "*shrug*".

With social media and twitch and other word of mouth platforms, I imagine being actually featured on the Steam store is becoming less crucial.

Social media really doesn't do that much. Twitch in particular is a perverse incentive, because it further incentivices games that are particularly watchable, but at the same time aren't done over with by a LP. That limits design a *lot*. Might even contribute to certain genres dying, while others get clone upon clone - twitch viewership & exposure makes even the bad ones more viable by proxy. See the xth zombie survival sandbox a while back.

Steam's system keeps getting exploited through review bombs.

Steam reviews have been utterly useless for years. They mostly show which games have gamerbaby outrage, while at the same time allowing bad devs to astroturf a positive initial review amount. I'd actually say bad devs abusing it is the main issue, only followed by gamerbaby review bombs when they discover another game that *gasp* has a female character or *gasp* a gay one.