Why does Xenoblade Chronicles 1 get a pass for sexualized female characters?

[RagnarokX]

I find it silly that people are saying that Sharla and Fiora are well-written fully-realized characters while dunking on Pyra and Mythra. Sharla hardly any character. The game basically forgets she exists after you rescue Juju and then they suddenly remembered she wanted to find her fiance and stuck that in. Fiora is entirely defined by her relationship with Shulk. Shulk and Melia are the only well-developed characters in the game.

Pyra and Mythra's relationship with Rex is important, but they are also the driving characters of the plot with their own goals. Nia, Morag, and Poppi are great too.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Primose allows herself to become a sex slave in order to get close to her "marks" for her vengeance quest, even though she didn't have to (in fact, it was a completely inefficient method of her achieving her goals). Her line about how no degradation (this includes rape, btw) was as bad as losing her daddy was beyond eye-rolling.
Honestly the premise of Primrose's story was insultingly stupid, and was clearly written by a man who has no idea how women think.

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Her pointing to her father's death as the traumatic focal point of where all the bad things in her life result from is 'eye-rolling'? I did not see it that way at all. I understand the other criticisms here, but the loss of a parent (especially the only parent) is an extremely traumatic experience for a child and is often the catalyst for further trauma. I mean I was abused for years and although I luckily have not experienced the loss of a parent, if I had lost one of my parents young then I could definitely see that being the most traumatic event in my life even given what else I was subjected to. A lot of really bad outcomes for kids come as a result of them losing a parent, either to death or prison or drug addiction, etc.

Maybe this isn't the thread for that discussion but that comment just really stood out to me. I don't see it as stupid at all.

 

[Kent]

Jiggle in this game is ridiculous. Sharla simply running flattens her chest because the physics are dialed way up. Was it like that too in the original game?

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They actually removed most character physics from the Definitive Edition. Both jiggle physics as well as things like sheathed weapons swaying as you run.

Playing the 3DS version back then, that little bit of the Monado wobbling a bit as if it was attached to a single point on Shulk's back was a nice touch - especially since you spend so much time running from point A to point B with a character in this game. It being gone in DE was weirdly conspicuous.

 

[Nikus]

This thread was a mistake 😕

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No, the discussion has merit. But these threads always attracts some trolls. Best to ignore them.

As others have said, you don't see it crticized as much because Xenoblade 2 was way worse in that regard, but that doesn't mean the first one gets a pass.
It has been a problem in Monolith games since day 1, and they haven't gotten better. Quite the contrary. I love their games, but I hope they keep being criticized for their BS until hopefully they come up with better designs. It really shouldn't be that difficult...

 

[Morrigan]

Her pointing to her father's death as the traumatic focal point of where all the bad things in her life result from is 'eye-rolling'? I did not see it that way at all. I understand the other criticisms here, but the loss of a parent (especially the only parent) is an extremely traumatic experience for a child and is often the catalyst for further trauma. I mean I was abused for years and although I luckily have not experienced the loss of a parent, if I had lost one of my parents young then I could definitely see that being the most traumatic event in my life even given what else I was subjected to. A lot of really bad outcomes for kids come as a result of them losing a parent, either to death or prison or drug addiction, etc.

Maybe this isn't the thread for that discussion but that comment just really stood out to me. I don't see it as stupid at all.

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There's context here. Primrose was basically saying she was willing to let herself get sexually abused (for years!!) in order to be able to achieve vengeance for her dad. It's even worse because she didn't have to.

Spoiler

You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.

 

[Deleted member 20852]

I think I didn't pay that much attention to it on the Wii because of the lower resolution and my younger age. It was quite jarring to play the deluxe edition on Switch.

 

[Wander_]

really?

I dont think that is sexualizing anything. also those are completely optional costumes.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

There's context here. Primrose was basically saying she was willing to let herself get sexually abused (for years!!) in order to be able to achieve vengeance for her dad. It's even worse because she didn't have to.

Spoiler

[Hidden content]

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Yeah I agree with you about the entire set up for her character, it is very unnecessary for her to like...put herself into slavery for that purpose. It's something the writers did to make the story 'dark' and try to manipulatively affect the player. I did find that whole early part of her story off-putting, if only because the subject matter is really triggering for me and also because I don't think they did anything meaningful with it (if anything it undercut her character). No one would willingly (like without force or coercion or grooming) choose to be in that situation, under any circumstances, and anyone who has experience such a thing knows that deeply.

I do understand how the loss of her father would be the worst thing for her though, and if she had been forced into slavery that would make more sense (because the loss of her father would've directly led to that). I'd rather they just...not done that type of storyline at all though, cause you are right they definitely bungled it completely.

 

[Duonala]

Isn't that, umm...the attire you choose for her?
The game gives many choices for costumes. Some are revealing and some are covering their whole body and parts of their faces too.
The only character that has a bit of an issue with it's costumes is Sharla.

In XB2 's case though, you get a bunch of half naked girls, that you have to go out of your own way to cover them.


Making a character wear something revealing then complaining about sexualization is kinda the same as making them wear heavy armor and complaining about censorship.

 

[RedDevil]

I wonder if it has to do with the console that Xenoblade Chronicles originally came from. While the outfits were always pretty silly and bad, on SDTVs it probably just looked like a busy mess. Having all of it rendered in HD just makes it harder to ignore.

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It has to do with a few things, there's a meme about "complaining on internet about games you've never played" but I think the opposite, praising a game they never played, also applied to XC1 back in the day. Another poster mentioned how Vanea barely ever gets brought up, it's simple Vanea like Fiora's more revealing outfits happen in the latter parts in the game for which one should've had either a more broad knowledge of the game by for example having actually played it which in general will gain more awareness now with XCDE than back in the day of its original release. Now XC2 was the first Xeno anything they ever played and one that exploded in popularity so it got more attention, it's very telling when people are actually "surprised" of what they saw on XCDE when it's basically a 10 years old game(regardless of what's optional and what isn't), just like the very stupid complaints about XC2 being more "anime" or how they made XCDE more "anime", it's also easy to tell who actually played these games or didn't when things like "fully realized characters" is brought up into the conversation as a justification for anything.

 

[RagnarokX]

Isn't that, umm...the attire you choose for her?
The game gives many choices for costumes. Some are revealing and some are covering their whole body and parts of their faces too.
The only character that has a bit of an issue with it's costumes is Sharla.

In XB2 's case though, you get a bunch of half naked girls, that you have to go out of your own way to cover them.


Making a character wear something revealing then complaining about sexualization is kinda the same as making them wear heavy armor and complaining about censorship.

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Fiora and Sharla's default outfits are bad and don't have good alternatives.

Spoiler: xc1

Fiora specifically mentions being embarassed by her sexualized new body, yet despite being able to return home you can never put clothes on her. And to make it worse, she's more concerned about what Shulk thinks than her own well-being. Her best armor is the most revealing she has.

Of the main cast of XC2 only Pyra and Mythra (and Poppi's and Nia's final forms which you don't have to use) are particularly skimpy, but still in line with XC1.

Rare blades are as optional as armor in XC1 and the worst offender rare blades are not the best blades to use so there's no reason to feel forced into using any of them.

 

[zashga]

Sharla's outfits are the worst. Playing through DE this year, I kept trying to find a non-embarrassing thing for her to wear. Never managed it.

 

[Dice]

really?

I dont think that is sexualizing anything

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Come on. Would you or any dude wear this in a game for a male character?? (Or, to the point: Is there ever even that kinda option)

 

[Wander_]

Come on. Would you or any dude wear this in a game for a male character?? (Or, to the point: Is there ever even that kinda option)

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again, those are extra costumes. you can hide everything wearing just the base equipment thanks to the transmog system.

 

[Ombala]

Nintendo basically

 

[Dice]

again, those are extra costumes. you can hide everything wearing just the base equipment thanks to the transmog system.

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You literally said "[the outfits don't] sexualizing anything". THAT'S YOU. I don't care if it's optional, you're still missing the ass cheeks for the point.

Further, it's GREAT (honestly) that it's optional in XB1, but XBX, XB2, and hell, even the previous Xeno-series games have a lot of sexualized female characters.

Monolith has an enduring, distinct, and gender-specific problem.

 

[Duonala]

Fiora and Sharla's default outfits are bad and don't have good alternatives.

Spoiler: xc1

Fiora specifically mentions being embarassed by her sexualized new body, yet despite being able to return home you can never put clothes on her. And to make it worse, she's more concerned about what Shulk thinks than her own well-being. Her best armor is the most revealing she has.

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? Fiora only has one that is overly sexualized. The rest are fine
I personally love Fiora's default outfit the most.

Spoiler

Fiora wasn't embarrassed about her cleavage, but about her new METAL body.

 

[darz1]

Xenoblade 1 and X give you the option of being a perve and lets you choose how your characters look. XC2 just assumes you are a perve and puts it all on display for you.

I do remember XC1 getting shit for the jiggle mechanics on release and X for the boob slider, but neither gets as much flack as XC2 and I believe it's mostly because you can't modify the XC2 characters appearance.

Personally I love the XB series but would be too embarrassed to play XB2 in front of my partner. But I don't think the XB2 characters look young, they all come across to me as adult characters but just highly sexualized.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

You literally said "[the outfits don't] sexualizing anything". THAT'S YOU. I don't care if it's optional, you're still missing the ass cheeks for the point.

Further, it's GREAT (honestly) that it's optional in XB1, but XBX, XB2, and hell, even the previous Xeno-series games have a lot of sexualized female characters.

Monolith has an enduring, distinct, and gender-specific problem.

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Yeah idk how you could look at, say, Kosmos and not see how this is a recurring thing for Monolithsoft. Someone already brought up OG Saga Endless Frontier which is nearly XC2 levels of ridiculousness.

On the other hand they did Baten Kaitos which has none of these problems.

 

[RedDevil]

? Fiora only has one that is overly sexualized. The rest are fine
I personally love Fiora's default outfit the most.

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Not really, there's another one which always got less attention DE added a few more.

 

[Dice]

? Fiora only has one that is overly sexualized. The rest are fine
I personally love Fiora's default outfit the most.

Spoiler

Fiora wasn't embarrassed about her cleavage, but about her new METAL body.

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BUT THOSE MECHON SURE GIVE GREAT BREAST ENHANCEMENTS. 👍

And good grief... your spoiler tag really doesnt help much. Why can't a girl just have a normal outfit? Without the caveats? :/

 

[nelsonroyale]

Agreed, and Sharla is this level headed, mature person...wearing these ridiculous costumes.

 

[Redcrayon]

Xenoblade 1 totally sexualises it's female cast with those outfits, animation etc, but I think it's a question of degree. Xenoblade 2 has the objectification literally built into the plot, with endless cut scenes where the camera focuses on their chest and dumb tropes, entirely built around it as almost the entire genre circles the drain on this point. That's not to mention the gacha blades drawn by hentai artists. The sexualised outfits from XB1 seem almost tame compared to the range of them and the way they are shoved at the presumed-male player in XB2, which is another problem- in that it then makes people think XB1 and MonolithSoft's previous games weren't too bad on the point, which is untrue, it's that that XB2 is bloody horrendous.

Combine that with XB2 coming out for the Switch's first winter, and being promoted as a major first party game with tons of exposure. Pyra is a lead character and so the marketing focused around her, and so discussion did too. Sharla isn't part of XB's box art and you don't even meet her until several hours in. In comparison, Pyra had almost entire adverts focus on her design built to sell statues to otaku. With regard to Era, the site launched shortly before XB2 released, and so it obviously became a lightning rod for a site built on providing spaces for discussions around objectification etc. If I were to sum up the most common topics in the first 'why women criticise sexualised character designs thread', I think Pyra (along with Quiet) were two of the most discussed (although correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while!).

TL:DR: XB deserves criticism for sexualised outfits, but XB2 put them front and centre for marketing, cast, cut scenes and plot. The first point is what drew wider conversation rather than something only players a dozen hours in have seen.

 

[808s & Villainy]

No.

This is -

Still the alternative armor designs are pretty bad. At least you can outright ignore them in the Switch release.

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As a default costume this doesn't really look to bad IMO

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Playing Xenoblade DE for the first time a couple months ago, it was most frustrating trying to find a tolerable outfit for Sharla. I mostly used her default. Honestly, all of the women look best in their default attire, minus Fiora at the beginning.

 

[NSESN]

Xenoblade 1 totally sexualises it's female cast with those outfits, animation etc, but I think it's a question of degree. Xenoblade 2 has the objectification literally built into the plot, with endless cut scenes where the camera focuses on their chest and dumb tropes, entirely built around it as almost the entire genre circles the drain on this point. That's not to mention the gacha blades drawn by hentai artists. The sexualised outfits from XB1 seem almost tame compared to the range of them and the way they are shoved at the presumed-male player in XB2, which is another problem- in that it then makes people think XB1 and MonolithSoft's previous games weren't too bad on the point, which is untrue, it's that that XB2 is bloody horrendous.

Combine that with XB2 coming out for the Switch's first winter, and being promoted as a major first party game with tons of exposure. Pyra is a lead character and so the marketing focused around her, and so discussion did too. Sharla isn't part of XB's box art and you don't even meet her until several hours in. In comparison, Pyra had almost entire adverts focus on her design built to sell statues to otaku. With regard to Era, the site launched shortly before XB2 released, and so it obviously became a lightning rod for a site built on providing spaces for discussions around objectification etc. If I were to sum up the most common topics in the first 'why women criticise sexualised character designs thread', I think Pyra (along with Quiet) were two of the most discussed (although correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while!).

TL:DR: XB deserves criticism for sexualised outfits, but XB2 put them front and centre for marketing, cast, cut scenes and plot. The first point is what drew wider conversation rather than something only players a dozen hours in have seen.

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Xenoblade 2 really doesnt have objetification built into the plot, in fact one of the biggest problems of Xeno 2 is that the sexualization feels so alien compared to the rest of the game.

Also being drawn by hentai artists matters nothing, many artists start as hentai artists because it is one of the ways to become known, trying to degrade an artist because they draw/did draw hentai seems like you think they are less good because of that

 

[Mbolibombo]

It's a 10 year old game that has had it's fair share of discussion regarding the topic. But I guess there's always much worse games that more often than not take over the topic but to say it get's a pass aint true.

 

[Redcrayon]

Xenoblade 2 really doesnt have objetification built into the plot, in fact one of the bigges problems of Xeno 2 is that the sexualization feels so alien compared to the rest of the game.

Also being drawn by hentai artists matters nothing, many artists start as hentai artists because it is one of the ways to become known, trying to degrade an artist because they draw/did draw hentai seems like you think they are less good because of that

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I said 'the gacha blades drawn by hentai artists'. Plenty of those blade designs are bloody atrocious and almost entirely overly sexualised, including some that look very young. If the art brief given out to dozens of artists was 'draw anything you like!', and drawing animated porn is a common starting point, then it really needed tighter art direction rather than getting a load of that stuff back. I doubt anyone was like 'What did we expect!', they knew exactly what they would get due to the almost-templated approach to this crap.

As for 'objectification isn't part of the plot', blades are literally objects sought out and used by wielders. Of which the vast majority, literally dozens of them, are conveniently sexualised young women because that's the template the brief apparently pointed everyone towards. I mean...

 

[Spine Crawler]

i thought we were going to talk about seven

 

[Deleted member 16876]

Does it?

I feel like 2 being even more sexualized is what put some shadow on the first game. I remember the first game getting criticized a lot back in the day.

 

[NSESN]

I said 'the gacha blades drawn by hentai artists'. Plenty of those blade designs are bloody atrocious and almost entirely overly sexualised, including some that look very young. If the art brief given out was 'draw anything you like!', and drawing animated porn is that common, then it really needed tighter art direction.

As for 'objectification isn't part of the plot', blades are literally objects sought out and used by wielders. Of which the vast majority are sexualised young women. I mean...

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then say that, otherwise it just looks like a cheap shot at the artists instead of criticizing the art, some of the arts you mentioned werent drawn by hentai artists and some of the arts that weren't sexualizaed were made by hentai artists

and I assume you didnt finish the game if you say "blades are literally objects sought out and used by wielders", what is huge part of the plot is how blades arent objects

 

[DOA]

Is there a Sharla outfit without ridiculous cleavage? Cause I haven't gotten it yet, if so (chapter 9 with all side quests done)

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i'm playing the game right now, and noticed this as well. this is as bad as you said, although i would mark 3 things for the game:
1. you can switch the appearance without ruining the stats, so this fanservice won't be in your face
2. there is an outfit for sharla, that is a full body, no cleavage, armor. i can't remember which one right now, but I think Regnas armor can help you a bit here (it has the less cleavage of the armors in my inventory right now)
3. this will sound on the dismissive side. the men in the game are also getting some of the treatment. a lot less, but there are armors where the men don't have any shirts at all.

 

[L Thammy]

I'm a straight guy - presumably the intended target of these kind of designs - and I ended up keeping Sharla in outdated armour for huge periods of time because all of the new armour I was finding was embarrassing. It's just so hideous and overdone that I end up feeling insulted that whoever designed the armour thinks so little me before I find it arousing.

People are saying it's optional, but at least in the original release, it's optional in the same sense that you can delete your save file every time you die and call it a permadeath option. The option is between gaining the benefits from new armours or sacrificing that because they look terrible. If they wanted you to have a choice between playing the game with the normal cool outfits or goofy sexy outfits, that would be one thing, but they're often giving you the second but not the first.

Unless I'm forgetting, the original release of Xenoblade didn't allow you to customize your armor beyond just equipping different, it was The Last Story that did aesthetic options.

 

[RagnarokX]

I said 'the gacha blades drawn by hentai artists'. Plenty of those blade designs are bloody atrocious and almost entirely overly sexualised, including some that look very young. If the art brief given out was 'draw anything you like!', and drawing animated porn is that common, then it really needed tighter art direction.

As for 'objectification isn't part of the plot', blades are literally objects sought out and used by wielders. Of which the vast majority are sexualised young women. I mean...

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Blades aren't objects, though. That's a major part of the plot and the driving force motivating most of the villains and the heroes. Humans mistreat blades and treat them as slaves/weapons and that injustice almost leads to the world being destroyed for being too shitty.

The hentai artist thing does seem like an unnecessary slight. It's very common to do hentai to eek out a living. They definitely should have had a tighter art direction, but the directive was just been "draw anything you like!" The blade most people bring up in these discussion was drawn by a woman, Risa Ebata. She drew 2 blades for XC2 and both of them were female ice blades with animal components with freakish feet. The only things monolith dictated to the artists was elemental types and weapon types. Everything else about the blades' designs was left to the artists. They should have also had guidelines to create a more even distribution of genders to avoid skewing in one direction.

 

[minimalism]

Am I a bad person for not caring? I even embrace it for the most part. Fan service is wonderful in my opinion.

 

[Redcrayon]

then say that, otherwise it just looks like a cheap shot at the artists instead of criticizing the art, some of the arts you mentioned werent drawn by hentai artists and some of the arts that weren't sexualizaed were made by hentai artists

and I assume you didnt finish the game if you say "blades are literally objects sought out and used by wielders", what is huge part of the plot is how blades arent objects

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I'm quite happy generalising based on the final results as a whole of the art direction given to these artists, thanks. You say yourself that working in hentai is common. Then we get that range of blades. At that point, it's a failure of art direction. That's not a criticism of artists. As an art editor myself, it's a deliberate commission given free reign when they knew exactly the range they'd get back. The industry is rife with this crap, it's not any one artists fault but when 'I'll draw a ridiculously sexualised young woman' is the most common answer to the brief, there's a problem.

And yes, I'm sure there's some eventual lore justification about empowerment for literal sexualised living weapons. This is called having your cake and eating it.

 

[Asklepios]

What is wrong with the Octopath story? Shock value? Sex work?

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Why the hell would you put Octopath in with the rest of these? Also why not also point out the predatory relationships in Persona 5?

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Riiiight. So the vile misogynistic plot points completely went over your head?

Just look at this one scene for example. I wanted to take a shower after seeing it. Octopath traveller is one of the worst offenders in that list.

 

[L Thammy]

Am I a bad person for not caring?

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As a general rule, that is how it tends to go.

 

[Redcrayon]

Blades aren't objects, though. That's a major part of the plot and the driving force motivating most of the villains and the heroes. Humans mistreat blades and treat them as slaves/weapons and that injustice almost leads to the world being destroyed for being too shitty.

The hentai artist thing does seem like an unnecessary slight. It's very common to do hentai to eek out a living. They definitely should have had a tighter art direction, but the directive was just been "draw anything you like!" The blade most people bring up in these discussion was drawn by a woman, Risa Ebata. She drew 2 blades for XC2 and both of them were female ice blades with animal components with freakish feet. The only things monolith dictated to the artists was elemental types and weapon types. Everything else about the blades' designs was left to the artists. They should have also had guidelines to create a more even distribution of genders to avoid skewing in one direction.

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The bolded is my point. It's a failure of art direction when that the results of a brief of 'draw what you like' would be a slew of sexualised young women is no great surprise to anyone, least of all the art director given what Pyra, Mythra etc look like. And that's awful, has been the same for a very long time, and runs deep in the biggest media industries on the planet. That people drawing art for money draw what they think the art director and audience will like isn't a surprise, but when the problem is with art direction itself clearly happy with endless objectification across the industry, there's an issue.

 

[MatrixMan.exe]

Not sure it does, but the game is 10 years old now so most of the conversation around sexualisation in Xenoblade will obviously revolve around its sequels.

The outfits for the characters, especially the women, are god awful though. I just keep their original appearance as a result.

 

[NSESN]

I'm quite happy generalising based on the final results as a whole of the art direction given to these artists, thanks.

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A shame really, generalizing is never good

And yes, I'm sure there's some eventual lore justification about empowerment for literal sexualised living weapons. This is called having your cake and eating it.

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This is a such a weird way to view it, well I can't help you, I was satisfied with what the sotry did with the blades and how in the end it was resolved. I mean not all blades are sexualized, hell not even all of them are female (iirc almost half are male but I might be wrong), but if you think that the sexualization came first and then the story came up to justify it I dunno what to say because in my perspective it was the opposite, specially with the whole thing about the artists being free to do the designs they wanted

 

[RagnarokX]

The bolded is my point. It's a failure of art direction when that the results of a brief of 'draw what you like' would be a slew of sexualised young women is no great surprise to anyone, least of all the art director given what Pyra, Mythra etc look like.

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I suppose part of the reason why they didn't set more than the element and weapon guidelines is that blades are supposed reflect the hearts of those that first resonate with them, and letting the artists do whatever was closer to what would happen if blades were real. The world is presented as a wicked place that might not be worth saving and the blades are a system to judge humanity.

 

[King Kingo]

I expected this game to be better, since the main criticism of XC2 here is the sexualized characters and blades. From what I see this is the same situation. Maybe people just like the story better? Either way it's embarrassing as fuck.

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For starters, those costumes you highlighted are entirely optional so they're not canonical outfits. You couldn't change the outfit of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 cast unless you purchased the DLC so there was an intent towards the outfits as part of their identity in the sequel unlike the original.

More importantly, this game is not as shamefully overt as Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is. The worst case of sexualisation are two spoiler characters, and even then, they're not characters that are being objectified unlike certain cast members of Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

There's no denying the objectification in this game, too. But it's not all comparable to the sequel.

 

[Redcrayon]

A shame really, generalizing is never good

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Quite the generalisation. In the case of describing overwhelmingly visable trends in a commissioned body of work in a short forum post, it works.

This is a such a weird way to view it, well I can't help you, I was satisfied with what the sotry did with the blades and how in the end it was resolved. I mean not all blades are sexualized, hell not even all of them are female (iirc almost half are male but I might be wrong), but if you think that the sexualization came first and then the story came up to justify it I dunno what to say because in my perspective it was the opposite, specially with the whole thing about the artists being free to do the designs they wanted

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Likewise, I can't help that you can't see how art direction chooses and guides artists along visible templates and trends in the industry, and that choosing not to intervene and running with a highly skewed body of work as the designs roll in is also a choice. At any point the art direction could have said 'hang on, do we really have to have a majority of sexualised young female characters?'. To me, ignoring that context and seeing it as a sort of chance collection of random independent submissions is a weird way to view it, as it ignores the wider context that enables the stuff this thread is about, but to each their own.

 

[zMiiChy-]

The difference is that with Xenoblade 2, the fanservice bleeds into the writing and characterisation of the game - which isn't an issue with Xenoblade 1, which makes it easier to ignore.

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I haven't played either game so I don't know if I would agree, but I follow this logic for sexualization in general.

Sexualizazed outfits and character designs are one thing, but when it seeps in the plot or characterization(Or potentially even worse, gameplay) I find it far more frustating and harmful.

I mean if I was more confident with my body I would love to wear some of the outfits that some people here would seem problematic, but if someone thought it was ok to sexually harass me for humor I'd probably want to kill them.

Honestly the talk of Octopath Travelerer in this thread makes it come off as one of the most misogynistic games I have ever heard of, I had no idea it was that bad...

 

[Dnomla]

Xenosaga 3 has always been called out for its shitty fanservice.

most of us just blamed the fact that Takahashi and Soraya weren't very involved with the game for its sudden jarring appearance.

obviously, that excuse doesn't hold up as well after XB2...

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My post was more about how in general XC2 gets unfairly targeted and labeled as something it's not. I've been playing their games for 15+ years and what I've seen doesn't deviate from Monolithsoft's previous works.

 

[NSESN]

Quite the generalisation. In the case of describing overwhelmingly visable trends in a commissioned body of work in a short forum post, it works.


Likewise, I can't help that you can't see how art direction chooses and guides artists along visible templates and trends in the industry, and that choosing not to intervene and running with a highly skewed body of work as the designs roll in is also a choice. At any point the art direction could have said 'hang on, do we really have to have a majority of sexualised young female characters?'. To me, ignoring that context and seeing it as a sort of chance collection of random independent submissions is a weird way to view it, as it ignores the wider context that enables the stuff this thread is about, but to each their own.

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I see it, I just think it has nothing to do with the plot like you were claiming

 

[Kain]

It doesn't, but 2 is way worse so there's that

 

[KDR_11k]

I guess a part of it is that Sharla's outfits are such a visual jumble that the exposed skin doesn't stand out much between all the random colors. Plus people tend to drop her from the party relatively quickly anyway.

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

I find it silly that people are saying that Sharla and Fiora are well-written fully-realized characters while dunking on Pyra and Mythra. Sharla hardly any character. The game basically forgets she exists after you rescue Juju and then they suddenly remembered she wanted to find her fiance and stuck that in. Fiora is entirely defined by her relationship with Shulk. Shulk and Melia are the only well-developed characters in the game.

Pyra and Mythra's relationship with Rex is important, but they are also the driving characters of the plot with their own goals. Nia, Morag, and Poppi are great too.

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Yeah, the women in XC2 are easily the strongest, most competent, well-developed, intelligent and entertaining in all three Xenoblade games.

I understand why some people dislike their designs and think they undercut those characters, but I'd take the likes of Pyra/Mythra and Nia over Sharla and Fiora.

The latter have absolutely no depth. Fiora literally has no character without Shulk, while Sharla is either pining for her man or developing feelings for another man... when the game doesn't forget that she's on the adventure all together.


I get the arguments on both sides of the debate and respect everyone's opinions (when they're communicated with a bit of tact).

I recently played through XC2 with my girlfriend of 10 years and while she did have a little laugh at some of the designs, she came to really enjoy the characters.

Poppi, Nia and Pyra/Mythra were her favourites - and it's easy to see why. They're awesome.

I'd be lying if I said that some of the camera shots used in the first couple of chapters didn't bother me.

The reason they bother me is because Pyra and Mythra are wonderful characters who don't need to be framed in that way.

So I take a fairly balanced view. Some of the larger than life designs go a bit far and I can understand why it's off-putting for some. The camera, early on, isn't the best.

But I'd also say a lot of designs are great and while some are a bit out there, the characters themselves have a lot to offer. And yes there are shots that I wish weren't in there, but out of 14 hours of cutscenes, there's not many, relative to the length of the game.

As for XC, it is more restrained. Some outfits are up their with XC2's worst but they are generally less prevalent. It isn't as in your face.

That said, XC2 is just more Monolith Soft. Boob lasers, boobs sliders and skimpy armours designs are just par for the course.