Why does Xenoblade Chronicles 1 get a pass for sexualized female characters?

[L Thammy]

Monolith Soft also developed Endless Frontier a year or two earlier, wherein 99% of the dialogue is along the lines of "kaguya has big tits like a cow".

I definitely get a sense that it's a Monolith Soft thing, whether it's the developers themselves or the audience they want to court.

 

[NattyBo]

Ok, willing to admit I'm wrong as there are plenty of people here willing to equally call out the two.

I wish monolithsoft would stop this bullshit. They make great games without a need for this nonsense. I just replayed Xenogears and I don't think it's as bad as any of it's "spiritual successors" in this regard, that's for sure. You see Ellie's naked butt, but Fei is also naked with Karellen and it makes sense in context, I guess.

 

[Stormbrewer]

I think the issue isn't just the designs, but that Tora's a creepy perv who's never called out, the camera is deliberately shot for a male gaze and the game is practically throwing a harem at Rex, stupid anime cliches included.

Meanwhile the romance and relationships in xenoblade are handled with a fair bit more seriousness and maturity, even if it's not killer writing or anything.

It does suck to have every xenoblade thread derailed by XC2s stupid designs, but I can't exactly call it unfair. I just wish we could have even XC1 threads without somehow bringing up Dahlia and/or New LA's music (cause inevitably people want to compare all the games even when it isn't the topic at hand)...

 

[ZeroX]

and I won't be gaslit as I've read pretty much every Xeno thread here

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lmao

 

[Crayolan]

Isn't Rex like 15 or 16?

Are these adult women all in love with a child?

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Dunno, haven't even played XC2. That'd be a whole other issue though lol.

I just get annoyed seeing people calling adult characters kids for no reason other than art style.

 

[Scruffy8642]

I was kinda shocked in many aspects when I played DE. You hear such differing opinions about 1 and 2 that you'd think the games were nothing alike at all. But in reality they're both extremely similar and have similar highs and lows. XC2 definitely went all in on the anime tropes, but it's not like they're aren't still heavily present in DE.

 

[Strings]

Ok, willing to admit I'm wrong as there are plenty of people here willing to equally call out the two.

I wish monolithsoft would stop this bullshit. They make great games without a need for this nonsense.

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Can wholeheartedly agree with you there.

 

[NattyBo]

I was kinda shocked in many aspects when I played DE. You hear such differing opinions about 1 and 2 that you'd think the games were nothing alike at all. But in reality they're both extremely similar and have similar highs and lows. XC2 definitely went all in on the anime tropes, but it's not like they're aren't still heavily present in DE.

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You've described exactly how I feel, thank you

 

[silva1991]

It doesn't, but XC2 is billion times worse in this aspect no matter how you look at it.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Are those the default outfits?

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No.

This is -

Still the alternative armor designs are pretty bad. At least you can outright ignore them in the Switch release.

 

[sredgrin]

Was Sharla's introduction a shot of her tits before her face the way it was with Pyra?

 

[Goron2000]

Believe me OP, I'm mad as heck! I haven't been able to eat a full meal since the original release 10 years ago and just as I'm getting better they put out that damned remaster.

 

[Rob2K19]

OMGOODNESS! Dem designs are fire!!!! Props to the artist on making these great designs. A man of culture indeed.

I see nothing wrong with the designs, OP.

 

[Tfritz]

Some people will call any character child-like that doesn't look outright middle aged/elderly when when drawn in an art style similar to XB2's. It's dumb.

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weird how literally everyone can easily identify brigid and morag as adults without them looking middle aged and slash or elderly
(also weird that nintendo made the english voice actors for nia and pythra all drop an octave so they'd sound older because they literally look like children)

 

[OmegaDL50]

Was Sharla's introduction a shot of her tits before her face the way it was with Pyra?

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Thankfully no.

 

[Mechaplum]

Was Sharla's introduction a shot of her tits before her face the way it was with Pyra?

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Hahaha

 

[Disclaimer]

Yeah, OP... I went into XBDE hearing nothing but its praises, and left the game cold and frustrated by the end. It had largely the same exact sexualization issues as XB2 -- except in smaller quantity, since XB2's cast of optional blades dwarfs XBDE's cast -- and a story I felt insulted my intelligence with its heavy-handed "foreshadowing" and cartoonish villains.

For people saying you can customize your characters' equipped appearance: it literally doesn't matter in Sharla's case. I struggled to find a tolerable alternative outfit for her until the end of the game, and no outfit can disguise her embarrassingly objectifying animations, which no one ever brings up.

Best part of XBDE was lowkey its short-and-sweet expansion. Melia's a way better character than Shulk when she isn't revolving around Shulk, and Nene & Kino were the best Nopon by far.

At least XB2 had Morag...

 

[NattyBo]

OMGOODNESS! Dem designs are fire!!!! Props to the artist on making these great designs. A man of culture indeed.

I see nothing wrong with the designs, OP.

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This thread was a mistake 😕

 

[LumberPanda]

OMGOODNESS! Dem designs are fire!!!! Props to the artist on making these great designs. A man of culture indeed.

I see nothing wrong with the designs, OP.

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Chief

This ain't it

 

[Kasumin]

I disagree on Melia. Her bare options are fairly modest. The new resort look shows more skin, but I don't remember it every being excessive. I felt like the game kept her fairly modest, which matched her character.

I'll give you Sharla, but her look didn't reflect her character. She's hey own character outside of the sex appeal. Even with she and Reyn becoming close, there was never any scene where accidentally does something perverted. Most of their rapport is her bring the straight woman to Reyn's more immature moments.

I haven't played XBC2, but 1 never gave the impression of a harem. Sharla and Reyn become close right off the bat. And while there is a love triangle, the two women involved handle it in a mature way.

Even the scene where Melia slaps Shulk after waking her up in the jungle isn't played like it would in anime. Melia apologizes and mentions she's not used to being close to a male Homs and they move on with introductions. There's no accusing Shulk of being a pervert or anything.

XBC1 is definitely fairly anime, but I think it did a good job reigning in the excesses and more annoying stuff.

I was sad to hear that XBC is more like typical anime 😒

 

[vhoanox]

Xeneblade games dont get a pass for anything.

 

[Jintor]

it got a pass back in the day cos the graphical fidelity was like sexualising a sim: sure it's possible, but why waste the time

 

[wtd2009]

I felt that I could avoid it with some of the outfits available that were readily offered. It doesn't take away from my wish that this wasn't something that you felt like you had to opt out of in the first place.

 

[Asklepios]

The same reason persona 5 gets away with blatant homophobia, Trails of cold steel gets away with creepy old dudes who hit on their grand daughter, octopath traveler gets away with making the female protagonist a sex slave and the great Kojima gets away with adding a game mechanic to look up (skimpily clad) women's skirt. It's all "CuLtUrAL DiFFeRenCe" we need to just accept.

 

[OmegaDL50]

I was sad to hear that XBC is more like typical anime 😒

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Well considering Takahashi's directorial history on the Xeno series overall. This never not going to be a case. I mean even the original Xenogears and even Xenosaga was pretty anime, in the fashion it tries to push religious symbolism, metaphysical aspects, and giant robot mecha, along the lines of Evangelion.

I mean Xenoblade doesn't have the giant robot mecha outside of elusions made towards the Bionis and Mechonis, but still tries still push the metaphysical

Spoiler

gods reborn into a human vessel

plot it has towards the very end of the game.

 

[Jotakori]

As someone who wasn't familiar with the XB series until XB2 came out, the discussion around both games since has definitely felt very different. XB2 had a ton of heated criticism for its sexualization from the start whereas I've seen maybe a quarter of that reaction towards XB1. I think a big part of it is nostalgia, tbh. Like, when you're a kid you just don't realize sexualization is a problem so it's easy to overlook and form attachments to the story and characters despite it. Then, once you're older, you're already fond of the game so even if you do belatedly realize its problems you're more prone to forgive them.

Since I never played XB1 I don't have that kind of attachment with it, but I definitely have a few other older JRPG/anime games that I played as a kid and still love, but would be extremely annoyed with if they were just coming out today.

 

[Squid Bunny]

As I huuuuuge fan of XC1, I was really disappointed that DE did not give us a good Sharla alt-costume.

But as many here have pointed out, XC1 doesn't get a "pass" for that; Sharla isn't sexualized by the camera or animations like many XC2 blades and characters are. It's miles ahead of XC2 in that regard, even if it's far from perfect.

 

[ss_lemonade]

Jiggle in this game is ridiculous. Sharla simply running flattens her chest because the physics are dialed way up. Was it like that too in the original game?

 

[gogojira]

I never make it very far in these games but in the short time I did play them, I found XB2 to be significantly worse. Not giving a pass to XB1, but XB2 just makes you feel embarrassed to be playing it ... so I didn't.

 

[dasu]

I wonder if it has to do with the console that Xenoblade Chronicles originally came from. While the outfits were always pretty silly and bad, on SDTVs it probably just looked like a busy mess. Having all of it rendered in HD just makes it harder to ignore.

 

[julian]

Sharla is bad. But 2 is on a whole other level not just in design but the implications of the bonded blades and how they act...I dunno. Whole thing felt weird to me. In addition, Xenoblade 1 leaned into the designs a little more and had no shame sexualizing all of its male characters as well. Hell, Shulk in a bathing suit is in Smash. Rex on the other hand is like a bucket of ice water while thinking about baseball. I don't remember any men in 2 being on the same level as the men in 1. That doesn't make Sharla less bad, but makes the overall package feel slightly less about the male gaze. Then again, haven't played DE yet, so Sharla in HD might change my mind.

 

[Sacul64]

Is there a Sharla outfit without ridiculous cleavage? Cause I haven't gotten it yet, if so (chapter 9 with all side quests done)

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If you are picking armor it seems to either show her ass or boobs. So you gotta mix and match. I feel like she had decent endgame heavy armor but I could be wrong.

 

[HylianSeven]

I'm not saying it never gets criticized, but I certainly haven't seen it to nearly the same extent here, and I won't be gaslit as I've read pretty much every Xeno thread here.

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No one's gaslighting you, get real.

Xenoblade 1 does get criticized for it.

Xenoblade 2 has it a lot worse, and it came out more recently than the (original) first game did, hence why you've probably seen it get a lot more criticism.

 

[Menx64]

The same reason persona 5 gets away with blatant homophobia, Trails of cold steel gets away with creepy old dudes who hit on their grand daughter, octopath traveler gets away with making the female protagonist a sex slave and the great Kojima gets away with adding a game mechanic to look up (skimpily clad) women's skirt. It's all "CuLtUrAL DiFFeRenCe" we need to just accept.

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What is wrong with the Octopath story? Shock value? Sex work?

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

There's levels to it.

Honestly it becomes the equivalent of "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" levels of distracting. Like the director was talking to the character designers like "this will be really hot for the teen boy audience we're aiming for! do more of this!" and its so much worse in 2.

 

[OmegaDL50]

What is wrong with the Octopath story? Shock value? Sex work?

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One of the 8 characters in Octopath, Primrose intentionally involves herself in a prostitution ring to get close to the only lead she has regarding information of the group of individuals responsible in her revenge quest for her father's murder.

 

[Menx64]

One of the 8 characters in Octopath, Primrose intentionally involves herself with a prostitution ring to get close to the only lead she has for information leading to individuals responsible in her revenge quest for her father's murder.

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Yeap, sorry I forgot to mention I beated the game. But again I don't understand what is wrong with Primrose?

 

[Dnomla]

Well OP, many Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii) fans are in denial and blinded by nostalgia and the Wii's poor graphics. They don't want to accept the series history.

But want to hear my theory? Bright colors = bad, immature, childish and anime. Look at how many people complained that Definitive Edition was "anime" now when the upgraded graphics were revealed.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has a more shiny, saturated/bold color palette and more cartoony/exaggerated proportions on characters. So it naturally draws your attention more.

While Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii had slightly more realistic character proportions and a very muted color palette. It was also on the Wii and very blurry.

It's the same reason Xenosaga never gets brought up as much, because Episode III was also more de-saturated in it's color palette and had more realistic shading for characters.

Was Sharla's introduction a shot of her tits before her face the way it was with Pyra?

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Pyra isn't introduced by her boobs, you see her whole body first.

BUTt, Lorithia is introduced by her butt crack.

 

[Chaosblade]

The same reason persona 5 gets away with blatant homophobia, Trails of cold steel gets away with creepy old dudes who hit on their grand daughter, octopath traveler gets away with making the female protagonist a sex slave and the great Kojima gets away with adding a game mechanic to look up (skimpily clad) women's skirt. It's all "CuLtUrAL DiFFeRenCe" we need to just accept.

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The even bigger problems with Trails is using sexual assault as comic relief, that's happened several times now. The handling of women in that series has tanked to embarrassing levels since Sky (which was mostly pretty good in that regard). That's one of a few reasons I'm losing interest in that series (and kinda Falcom games in general).

 

[Anaron]

Well OP, many Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii) fans are in denial and blinded by nostalgia and the Wii's poor graphics. They don't want to accept the series history.

But want to hear my theory? Bright colors = bad, immature, childish and anime. Look at how many people complained that Definitive Edition was "anime" now when the upgraded graphics were revealed.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has a more shiny, saturated/bold color palette and more cartoony/exaggerated proportions on characters. So it naturally draws your attention more.

While Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii had slightly more realistic character proportions and a very muted color palette. It was also on the Wii and very blurry.

It's the same reason Xenosaga never gets brought up as much, because Episode III was also more de-saturated in it's color palette and had more realistic shading for characters.

Pyra isn't introduced by her boobs, you see her whole body first.

BUTt, Lorithia is introduced by her butt crack.

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Xenosaga 3 has always been called out for its shitty fanservice.

most of us just blamed the fact that Takahashi and Soraya weren't very involved with the game for its sudden jarring appearance.

obviously, that excuse doesn't hold up as well after XB2...

 

[OmegaDL50]

Yeap, sorry I forgot to mention I beated the game. But again I don't understand what is wrong with Primrose?

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I just take it some folks have a problem with a game focusing on that sort of material to begin with. I think it's a fair point to stress the objectification of women is bad. If people got offended with that part of Primrose's story, I think that is the intent. It's supposed to depict a disgusting and dark side of that sort of thing. I won't say it was for the sake of shock value but just to show how corrupted some slimy individuals can actually get, especially involved in slavery and prostitution rings.

The fact Primrose quest involves systematically destroying the organization from the inside out with the trail of seeking those responsible in the death of her father is an inverse of just pushing objectification for the sake of it.

 

[Deleted member 31092]

Xeno 2 gets more spotlight because it was a major release in Switch's first year and because it's more popular.




Also lol at people calling Sharla "a memorable character" compared to Pyra and Mythra. She's barely a character in XC.

 

[InfiniDragon]

The difference is that with Xenoblade 2, the fanservice bleeds into the writing and characterisation of the game - which isn't an issue with Xenoblade 1, which makes it easier to ignore.

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Yep.

This is the key difference, it's fully integrated right down to the way the cast interacts in XB2 (like an anime) whereas in XB it was just dumb outfits you could just not wear (like I did, I avoided all those dumb skimpy outfits on both the guys and the ladies). You won't ever see anything remotely close to a "blushy crushy" scene in XB1.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

It gets talked about less because most of it is optional (only some armor types, many players will never see this stuff at all) and what is there is in line with like...a lot of modern games in the genre so it doesn't stand out as much to people. It's definitely there but it's not in your face for the most part, and the game doesn't draw attention to it most of the time.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is many orders of magnitude worse, to the point that it's like...one of the defining features of that game. That's why you hear more about XC2, cause it's just so much worse than both the first game and even most mainstream games in the genre.

Monolith has a history of this sort of over-sexualization, but even compared to their output XC1 is fairly tame. Totally fair to call it out OP, though you can fully avoid it in XC1 and I recommend that you do.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Yep.

This is the key difference, it's fully integrated right down to the way the cast interacts in XB2 (like an anime) whereas in XB it was just dumb outfits you could just not wear (like I did, I avoided all those dumb skimpy outfits on both the guys and the ladies). You won't ever see anything remotely close to a "blushy crushy" scene in XB1.

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This is a very good point and something that stresses why the objectification in Xenoblade 2 is much worse than Xenoblade 1. As you say, nothing goes out of it's way in Xenoblade 1 like it did for Xenoblade 2.

 

[Morrigan]

Yeap, sorry I forgot to mention I beated the game. But again I don't understand what is wrong with Primrose?

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Primose allows herself to become a sex slave in order to get close to her "marks" for her vengeance quest, even though she didn't have to (in fact, it was a completely inefficient method of her achieving her goals). Her line about how no degradation (this includes rape, btw) was as bad as losing her daddy was beyond eye-rolling.
Honestly the premise of Primrose's story was insultingly stupid, and was clearly written by a man who has no idea how women think.

 

[Chaosblade]

Xeno 2 gets more spotlight because it was a major release in Switch's last year and because it's more popular.




Also lol at people calling Sharla "a memorable character" compared to Pyra and Mythra. She's barely a character in XC.

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She's also the worst party member, and she has probably the least involvement in the story of any character after her bit early in the game ends, so there's good reason to barely ever see or use her in the first place.

Since this topic seems to be all-in on spoilers, Fiora is arguably worse since she's a good character functionally and her best armor is the most egregious. You can get around it in DE with cosmetic armor, but it's still an issue and it was one of my complaints about the original game. I know for sure I talked about how dumb the butt cleavage was.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

The same reason persona 5 gets away with blatant homophobia, Trails of cold steel gets away with creepy old dudes who hit on their grand daughter, octopath traveler gets away with making the female protagonist a sex slave and the great Kojima gets away with adding a game mechanic to look up (skimpily clad) women's skirt. It's all "CuLtUrAL DiFFeRenCe" we need to just accept.

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Why the hell would you put Octopath in with the rest of these? Also why not also point out the predatory relationships in Persona 5?

 

[InfiniDragon]

Primose allows herself to become a sex slave in order to get close to her "marks" for her vengeance quest, even though she didn't have to (in fact, it was a completely inefficient method of her achieving her goals). Her line about how no degradation (this includes rape, btw) was as bad as losing her daddy was beyond eye-rolling.
Honestly the premise of Primrose's story was insultingly stupid, and was clearly written by a man who has no idea how women think.

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Yep, I fuggin' hated Prim's storyline. It was supposed to show how devoted and ruthless she'd be but just felt like big league pandering.

I liked Ophilia's plot a lot better in terms of female agency despite the basic ass premise of "nice priestess helping people". She knows that being nice to everyone can bite her in the end and actually had times where she questioned if she should be more nihilistic in her youth, but chose to be that person because she wanted to, no one picked it for her.

 

[vhoanox]

Remember Lin and bathing suit in X.
Somehow MonolithSoft uped their game in Xenoblade2.
I wish Monolith would hear the complaints and learn from this. We dont need problematic costumes in Jrpg anymore.