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Why does the Luminary in Dragon Quest XI have to be a boy?
- Thread starter JB2448
- Start date
I'm not used to earnest acknowledgments of another poster being in the right in a forum discussion, so I dunno if I'm being japed c_c
Pre-rendered bits in DQ11 were fucking awful, dropping from 4K to supercompressed 1080p bits for seconds.
Honestly in this modern world, I less and less want inclusion for the sake of it, and more for it to come from proper collaboration and planning.
For a game like Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap, which added a female playable character too, that was awesome. But in an RPG like this? I wouldn't just want to see a female, or Black, or Latino, or any change to the protag without some proper people to help flesh out the role. And for THAT, I wish we'd see more global consideration when designing these kind of works.
It's so much easier to communicate and share ideas now, than ever. Businesses shouldn't be making tone-deaf strategies and decisions when products are aimed out at the world anymore. I admit to liking some of the adherence to tradition (I don't want my Japanese made games tackling every western issue!) but I hope the success of things like this DQ can make the next one a bit more open to inspiration.
Personally, I feel like this game is a surprising return of form towards the kind of refined content we had in the lower-power 3D graphic days. So many well fleshed-out battle animations, so many unique actions that could have been otherwise shared between everyone (like everyone's unique dances when confused), sizable towns that feel like up-res'd 16 bit towns, rather than places with WIDE OPEN NOTHING for the sake of saying it's an open world, memorable shopkeeps and towns folk unique to each region, so many special animations for all the monsters... it's a high class effort. That's the kind of attention to detail I'd want to see in having the ability to personalize your MC. If they can't deliver it up to that standard, doing it as best they can with 1 appearance is fine.
For a game like Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap, which added a female playable character too, that was awesome. But in an RPG like this? I wouldn't just want to see a female, or Black, or Latino, or any change to the protag without some proper people to help flesh out the role. And for THAT, I wish we'd see more global consideration when designing these kind of works.
It's so much easier to communicate and share ideas now, than ever. Businesses shouldn't be making tone-deaf strategies and decisions when products are aimed out at the world anymore. I admit to liking some of the adherence to tradition (I don't want my Japanese made games tackling every western issue!) but I hope the success of things like this DQ can make the next one a bit more open to inspiration.
Personally, I feel like this game is a surprising return of form towards the kind of refined content we had in the lower-power 3D graphic days. So many well fleshed-out battle animations, so many unique actions that could have been otherwise shared between everyone (like everyone's unique dances when confused), sizable towns that feel like up-res'd 16 bit towns, rather than places with WIDE OPEN NOTHING for the sake of saying it's an open world, memorable shopkeeps and towns folk unique to each region, so many special animations for all the monsters... it's a high class effort. That's the kind of attention to detail I'd want to see in having the ability to personalize your MC. If they can't deliver it up to that standard, doing it as best they can with 1 appearance is fine.
That is the only scene where his non-expressions works though
as he is in shock and frozen starring and Erik telling him that they need to go as he would have been there all day, you could feel his emotion in that one scene. Just a few moments earlier though before that, his dumbass sees himself as a kid who could speak mind you, and he just doofs around with no emotion lol
Japed?
No, i am being genuine. I reviewed my original underlying point and realized that i had not actually thought my position through enough compared to your post, and the OP's point as well.
Authorial direction is one thing, but that on its own isnt a barrier to questioning why things exist in the state that they do, which should always be done to any point.
A male dominated work force, a male dominated team focused on a male dominated audience who wants that self insert fantasy character is a much stronger answer than simply saying its "what the devs wanted", because once you introduce that aspect, questions obviously begin when there is no real story or underlying game specific structural reason for that reality to exist.
And really that's the extent of it all. Nuff said.
I enjoyed playing the Female hero in Dragon Quest Heroes 1 and 2, but in those games they were built with 2 very distinct and unique main characters. Those games were pretty great.
But if that's not the tale the creator wants to tell, then, that's it.
Dude this is intro cutscene for a non conventionnal DQ game. I'm talking about main DQ game and CGI cutscenes from all over the game till the end.
User banned (3 days): derogatory language, inflammatory generalizations
Yeah seems like there's a couple, I won't count builders title or 9 though, or mmo. These are the type where you create a character. More conventionnal DQ have cutscenes trought the game, it pretty much fix the mean for a Gender. I personnaly don't care if it's a boy or a gals. I would be like asking why there is not enough black people in Japanese game etc...
I mean let's answer Japanese are misogynist and racist. I would believe it. Girls in Japanese games are,most of the time, some kind of stupid sex toy and black dude always some weird retards with stereotype all over the place.
See, I'm french Canadian and in France, they do still believe we use winter dogs as main transport and clothed using fur. I'm talking about this level of stupidity.
But the thing is... nothing would have to change about the game if the Luminary was a black woman, beyond maybe the skin color of one of their parents.
This kind of concern about "tokenism" (even if you didn't use that word) is a generally misguided approach, but it's frankly outright ridiculous when applied to a game where the protagonist isn't even a character. The Luminary has no personality. They do not speak. You gain no sense of their half of any relationships- the game just decides Erik is their best friend with 0 depiction of any friendliness on their side.
You would have to change nothing to reflect that gender/race change because nothing about them as a character is really tied to their gender/race to begin with. Obviously it's a good idea in general to get some consultation/collaboration, to avoid making anything outright racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/etc., but in this case you could literally just swap things around and it would be exactly the same, without issue.
And, of course, sexism isn't a "Western issue" (though I understand you were probably discussing race there).
This is like, almost 30 year old concept art dude, are you seriously surprised?
Surely if they can manage it in the spin off, they can manage it in the main title with far more funding?
Sure, that should be mainstream by now. People are so obsessed with their Identity and eguallity, it has to come to video games to reflect this I suppose. Personnaly I never cared. In my head everyone is already egual, there's no need for justification. Inspiration can come from both and both gender has something unic to bring to the other, as important.
Honest question but why do developers still use pre rendered cutscenes.
I know in the past they would always look better than in engine stuff but now that isn't the case.
I know in the past they would always look better than in engine stuff but now that isn't the case.
Because the male hero hogged all the fabric - just look how baggy his clothes are!
It is incredibly unclear my dude.
Like, you're coming across like you're drunk or something.
It costs too much to make two protagonists, and if the developer has to choose one gender, boy is the safer choice.
Yeah right, let' pretend DQ has the same budget of fucking Mass Effect.
I'll have to dig up the quote later but based of what Horii said about how he writes Dragon Quest that won't happen. We'll either get both or just male. Luckily the spinoffs lately have given us the option of choice.
They were on a roll recently. The previous two mainline games gave gender choices, as did some recent spin-offs (the two Heroes games and I assume both Builders games, rather than only the first which I played).
As much as I'd love having both purely for the story differences I'm pretty sure that's the reason why. After IV the narrative of the games have started to become much much tighter and the Hero fits a very specific mold. The games V, VIII, and XI won't work unless the tweak the story and models quite a bit.
I'm shocked and horrified.
The poor girl didn't even have enough fabric to make one whole pant leg.
Again, haven't played most of postgame still, don't want explicit spoilers for it, but- are all those scenes with Jasper in the Direct trailer, with him glowing white, taken from the original game? I played most of the game back in September so maybe I'm just forgetting them, or else they're yet to come for me- but it felt to me like they were teasing extra (postgame) stuff with him through those scenes.
I would expect that new story stuff would deal with him, even if he's not actually added to the party.
I would expect that new story stuff would deal with him, even if he's not actually added to the party.
I wouldn't be able to answer where specifically those scenes are from but iirc there was no new scene with Jasper in the trailer in the Direct
Because they are designed for boys, as it isn't surprising for the female option to be the more popular option. Take the SRW games were in one game they gave the older male protagonist a little girl tag along because they knew otherwise people will ignore him, and go towards the girl protagonist. Only time this doesn't hold is if the game has romanceable partners, as they would rather date other girls.
No reason? III, IX and X all have character creator. In other games the character is pre-defined with background and relations. In DQXI the protagonist literally gets married to his childhood friend. Making a female protagonist will, at least, require a new childhood friend character. That's a lot of work. Also, please explain how "Dragon Quest V: Hand of Heavenly Bride" would work with female protagonist.
I do think a DQ with only female protagonist is totally doable though.
Depends on how you look at it. You have games like the Mass Effect series or earlier Morrowind where "self insert" player characters work pretty easily, because interaction is fairly loose, by design. Characters animate about the same, the CAC's use the same skeletons with the same animations and proportions, the words to reference them are about the same, NPC's avoid refereeing to you as much else other than title, etc.
In Dragon Quest XI, the Luminary may not speak, but would Erick and co. respond to the character the same, if they didn't fit a certain look and gender? The bathouse sequences would change, The expectations and reactions in your opening home town would change. The coliseum is full of character that call attention to each competitors gender and appearance, and what that makes them think of them.
Would a heavier character solve athletic issues in the same way? Would dressing up to sneak into an area, or pretend to be a certain someone in a competition, have the same effect? There are some prejudices in the game world that would probably arise if you could shift your character. The main cast could even have a case to develop different jealous streaks and the like. There's quite a few NPCs that refer to your presentation, and make comments based on it. The Luminary might not talk, but characters in the game are surely seeing a handsome brown haired man of a certain look and build when they speak with him.
I haven't beaten the game yet, but the game leaves the impression that they tried to go the extra mile with everything they DID include. So If they did add a character sex option here, to stand up to the standards the rest of the game sets, it'd have to do a bit more. It'd probably even have a few shifts in the skill trees.
Not to say it's impossible. I'm quite surprised they're making a 16 bit style version in the Switch release. I'd love to see the game refined to fit more options in. I just don't think it's as easy and plain as other do.
And as far as "Western Issues", I'm referring to the particular climate the US is at with certain things. We're at a boiling point with many issues right now, that just aren't hot buttons in the same way for others currently. They are issues sure, but not to the same news and social relevancy. It's hard to do something justice when one doesn't even understand why the asking party is so passionate in the first place.
One thing I love in animation, gaming, TV shows, etc, is when you can tell a passionate person or group, is expressing something they truly believe in and understand. That's when content is made with consideration for the audience and consumers. Forcing a creator or group to add or comment on something because it's socially hot, often leads to poor execution, and more trouble than triumph.
I don't think they said the male choice was going to be marriege. I recall them saying it would be something different. As for Dragon Quest V: Hand of Heavenly Bride not having a female protagonist that still make sense regardless of same sex marriage. The legendary hero has to be your kid, sure you can argue that the Heroine can adopt one but the blood of the Hero is through the Heavenly Bride.
Yeah, that's really the thing- I'm not sure if we know if there are actual weddings/marriages involved, but regardless that's already a thing they decided isn't vital, so...
Plus it's not like... 1. Gemma's around so much that swapping her for a guy childhood friend instead would take a huge amount of work, or 2. they couldn't just, y'know, make the Luminary a lesbian.
I wish there was a gender option. DQ games always use silent protagonists to represent the player anyway so why not?
Well, with all Japanese developed games, they only focus on one demographic, and that's the Japanese audience. Which currently is still quite male dominated. This is just the reality for any Japanese developed title currently, they don't care what the west thinks.
Because pants are for barbarians.
Truly civilised people wear togas.
I don't really think that the audience would react as negatively as people think they would. I mean, publishers in the west thought the same thing, and that didn't turn out true either. Lara Croft, Aloy, Samus, Splatoon, etc. put female characters at the forefront and are wildly successful.
Well, okay, three of them are.
This goes into the heart of the third acts story (what people mistakenly coin as postgame), so I advise you to not click if you haven't finished playing through the game in its entirety.
As for the why does the mc have to be a boy, there's no good reason. It's just something they decided and rolled with.
If you played through the entirety of the game, you'll see that the Serenica becomes a luminary as well in order to save Erdrick from getting killed. So they aren't privy on keeping the luminary a man.
As for the why does the mc have to be a boy, there's no good reason. It's just something they decided and rolled with.
Its sooo freakin' strange because I can't fathom drawing a male and female counterpart and drawing the female in faaar more suggestive clothing and thinking "this is fine".
And I get that but the very bottom line here is they do not listen to us. Ever.
The Luminary does not have to be a Boy in DQ11, but he is, and its pretty clear they are not gonna expend the effort to give people the option to be a girl.
The Protag in DQ12 could be a boy, a girl or maybe once again a half dragon.
Only Horii knows, and probably only Horii decides.
The Protag in DQ12 could be a boy, a girl or maybe once again a half dragon.
Only Horii knows, and probably only Horii decides.
I know, but my point is that it doesn't make sense, it makes "sense." It makes "movies starring black people won't do well overseas" sense.
Are you referring to this scene? If so, that is not teasing anything, that is the armor he wears.
Spoiler for people who have yet to beat act 2
When you kill him, he was already too far gone to be saved, that whole scene was rather emotional for Hendrik to fell his best friend and for Jasper to be at peace finally. Even after going back in time, he was already changed and would not be able to be saved
Because all previous DQ games have male protagonist? I'm not saying it's better, but it's definitely safer. Nobody will be surprised. Personally I'd love to see a female protagonist.
And the game is coming out....two years after the initial release? You got a point, sure.
