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Ashy Larry

Member
Nov 16, 2017
78
Yeah, radioactive spiders giving you sticky skin, super strength, and psychic ability is fine. Webs from your wrists is a STEP TOO FAR.

That's a bit of a strawman, because I'm not asking how shooting webs from your wrists is realistic. I'm asking how Peter would gain a power spiders clearly don't have when the spider supposedly gave him spider powers (not counting spider sense because it's clear the writers thought that was something spider were capable of to some degree). In other words: if Peter had the ability to shoot webs, why would they come out of his wrists?
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,246
I have not read the comics. But if the reason he invents the web shooters is to demonstrate how smart he is, couldn't they just demonstrate his smartness by pointing to the other gadgets he invents for himself and make the web shooters natural?
Web shooters are always depicted as some stuff that he builds on the cheap. Chemicals are bought cheap and the electronics and spring loaded bullshit for the web shooters are grabbed from Radio Shack on an allowance or borrowing from his lunch money.

Building other shit costs money, money Pete never really had because the Daily Bugle doesn't pay that well. And the times he did build something excessive, he essentially was splurging to defeat a villain. Or more recently, it was because he finally managed to get a high paying job where he could leverage his income and company resources to build all manner of gadgets.

Popular culture Spider-Man is perpetually broke; you really think he's going to be able to flex his intelligence by building a bunch of gadgets beyond web fluid, shooters, and some small RFID trackers? And even the trackers, he continuously comments on how expensive they are for him to make.
 
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tarantullama

tarantullama

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,441
That's a bit of a strawman, because I'm not asking how shooting webs from your wrists is realistic. I'm asking how Peter would gain a power spiders clearly don't have when the spider supposedly gave him spider powers (not counting spider sense because it's clear the writers thought that was something spider were capable of to some degree). In other words: if Peter had the ability to shoot webs, why would they come out of his wrists?

They would come out of his wrists because it's a fantasy and convenient. If they had made this choice from the get-go, there would not be an outcry about the fact that it comes from the wrists rather than the butt. It would've just been accepted.

Why couldn't he have spinnerets develop on his wrists? Human anatomy and spider anatomy are wildly different, why would the mutation occur the same exact way?

Web shooters are always depicted as some stuff that he builds on the cheap. Chemicals are bought cheap and the electronics and spring loaded bullshit for the web shooters are grabbed from Radio Shack on an allowance or borrowing from his lunch money.

Building other shit costs money, money Pete never really had because the Daily Bugle doesn't pay that well. And the times he did build something excessive, he essentially was splurging to defeat a villain. Or more recently, it was because he finally managed to get a high paying job where he could leverage his income and company resources to build all manner of gadgets.

Popular culture Spider-Man is perpetually broke; you really think he's going to be able to flex his intelligence by building a bunch of gadgets beyond web fluid, shooters, and some small RFID trackers? And even the trackers, he continuously comments on how expensive they are for him to make.

Yeah, I've come to accept that, miraculous as it may be, the webbing could be relatively cheap if you know the right mixture.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Parker is a wiz kid an makes his own gadgets. This isn't the Homecoming peter where Stark MAKES EVERYTHING for him.

the real Peter Parker makes his own toys
 

nicolasacmf

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,515
Because shooting webs LITERALLY from your arms is dumb. As a longtime Spidey fan, I will never NOT hate every version of Spidey that does have natural web shooters.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,849
Probably been mentioned but he did have organic webbing in the comics after being turned into a giant spider and dying and giving birth to himself. Got retconned though


Funny thing is Peter is the B Squad of geniuses, good in a pinch but the heavies are just in another level. Bruce banner once hacked a broken time machine that was from 500 years in the future from an alternative universe from 4 states away with little effort.

Yeah but

main-qimg-6022c7e669fc8f55ccbb49a13c174adf
 
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Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,617
I love when comic book fans seriously argue that it wouldn't make any sense for the webs to shoot from the wrist. They have no problem with anything else about the character, but webbing from the wrist crossed a line! THAT'S the one thing that needs to be scientifically accurate for some reason, haha.

I'm convinced people like mechanical web shooters because that's what they grew up with. It makes no sense to prefer them otherwise.
I grew up with the raimi films and thought Spiderman always had organic shooters until I was a teen.

I immediately preferred the web shooters. There's just more interesting things to do with them story wise imo, and I find it a bit more fun than organic shooters.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,785
Also, why would Spider-Man shoot webs naturally from his wrist when most spiders just spin up a strand of webbing and let gravity or the wind carry it? Most spiders aren't shooting webbing out of their body with any kind of distance, speeds or force; the amount of them that project webbing out rather than just cue up their spinnerets and let some slack out are pretty slim.
Saying "I need a way to get around, catch things, and tie people up; maybe I'll create something that projects webbing out at a distance" is better than him climbing a building above a badguy and saying "Hey down there: stay on that exact spot" as some silk just kind of dribbles out of his wrist down onto the villain.
 

Ashy Larry

Member
Nov 16, 2017
78
They would come out of his wrists because it's a fantasy and convenient. If they had made this choice from the get-go, there would not be an outcry about the fact that it comes from the wrists rather than the butt. It would've just been accepted.

Why couldn't he have spinnerets develop on his wrists? Human anatomy and spider anatomy are wildly different, why would the mutation occur the same exact way?



Yeah, I've come to accept that, miraculous as it may be, the webbing could be relatively cheap if you know the right mixture.

So natural wrist webs are completely arbitrary and there's no in universe explanation for why they make more sense than mechanical web shooters
 
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tarantullama

tarantullama

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,441
So wrist webs are completely arbitrary and there's no in universe explanation for why they make more sense than mechanical web shooters
In universe explanation: He got bitten by a radioactive spider and the mutation affected his wrists rather than his butt because spiders and humans have dramatically different types of bodies.

Versus a radioactive spider happened to bite the first human to ever create artificial webbing using school supplies, in addition to a wrist contraption that can effectively and consistently shoot the webs very far distances.

How can you honestly say the first one is more contrived than the second?

Yes, the natural wrist web shooters are arbitrary but so is the fact that Parker only seemed to get the beneficial aspects of the spider, too. Why didn't he grow multiple eyes and legs? Why didn't his mouth turn to mandibles? The creators arbitrarily gave him the abilities of a spider that would make him an effective hero while leaving behind the traits that would make him a monster. So why not arbitrarily give him the natural web shooters instead of contriving some other way for him to get them?
 
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Rory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,159
Wally West (The Flash) kept emergency snacks on him because of how fast his metabolism burned through his energy.

So the emergency sandwiches thing ain't even that out there.

But yeah nothing would really change.
For Flash that makes more sense, because it fits the character better (and the energy rich food is more effective).

Peter is depicted as someone who solves problems mostly in scientific ways.

Why'd he choose more bulky and less effective food packages if nutrituion capsules would be more efficent and do a better job? You could have also ask why didnt he stick to his Arrow-Like hoodie outfit — the answer is simple: The suit serves his purpose far better.

Did any of you ever consider the possibility that Peter was bitten by a radioactive spider that COULDN'T make webs??

The spider that bit Peter was very capable of webbing. Or do you think it'd hang out in other spiders nets unravel it and steal the thread to get on its victims skin?
 
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BKatastrophe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,359
don't you find that Stark's involvement took away Peter's innovation?

I don't like Homecoming
Nah not really. Just a shortcut. He was still innovative and creative on his own. Plus
his refusal of the upgraded suit at the end showed he didn't want to just skate by on Tony's dime.
For Flash that makes more sense, because it fits the character better (and the energy rich food is more effective).

Peter is depicted as someone who solves problems mostly in scientific ways.

Why'd he choose more bulky and less effective food packages if nutrituion capsules would be more efficent and do a better job? You could have also ask why didnt he stick to his Arrow-Like hoodie outfit — the answer is simple: The suit serves his purpose far better.
I was just saying that it's been a thing.
 
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makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,664
Wally West (The Flash) kept emergency snacks on him because of how fast his metabolism burned through his energy.

So the emergency sandwiches thing ain't even that out there.

But yeah nothing would really change.
Spider-Man doesn't need emergency sandwiches, just scrumptious, filling, fruity Hostess Fruit Pies!
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,352
My head cannon is that he instinctively knows the formula for the web fluid as part of his Spider powers.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,059
Also, why would Spider-Man shoot webs naturally from his wrist when most spiders just spin up a strand of webbing and let gravity or the wind carry it? Most spiders aren't shooting webbing out of their body with any kind of distance, speeds or force; the amount of them that project webbing out rather than just cue up their spinnerets and let some slack out are pretty slim.
Saying "I need a way to get around, catch things, and tie people up; maybe I'll create something that projects webbing out at a distance" is better than him climbing a building above a badguy and saying "Hey down there: stay on that exact spot" as some silk just kind of dribbles out of his wrist down onto the villain.

Good point but then some teenager making strong as steel artificial web that somehow shoots seemingly hundreds of meters as he's swinging around town from a box of bits from radio shack and the local drug store on a shoestring budget is hardly realistic either
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,489
The whole joke behind Nathan Fillion's Brown Widow on Venture Bros. is that he has this power, and it sucks. He tries using his spinneret in his civilian clothes and winds up looking like he shat himself.

In other words, that's why. If he had organic webbing, they definitely wouldn't wind up on his wrists, because that's stupid and wouldn't happen unless some JMS-type wrote some dumb arc about "totems" and Peter dying and having his eyeball eaten by interdimensional vampires. But that'd be dumb which is why it didn't happen.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
Good point but then some teenager making strong as steel artificial web that somehow shoots seemingly hundreds of meters as he's swinging around town from a box of bits from radio shack and the local drug store on a shoestring budget is hardly realistic either

I don't think it is about 'realism' as much as it is about in universe logic.
Sure there are weak spots, but overall they are trying to keep things logical.

Spider-man doesn't have SUPER strength. He has the proportional strength of a spider.
He also has their reflexes and sense of balance.

The entire is idea is that he has the abilities of a spider when they are scaled up to and directly applied to the human physiology.
Generally speaking, they don't go out of their way to give him abilities that scale beyond that.
The biggest leap is probably the Spider-sense, but even it has some basis as spiders can sense vibrations through their hairs.
My point is that none of his powers completely outclass what a normal spider can do.

I can see Lee, Ditko, etc. back in the day talking about this and deciding that going out of their way to come up with biological silk glands and
spinnerets in spots that aren't based on normal spider physiology would be bending the rules they set out a bit too much.
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
There's lots of reasons mechanical webshooters are better and make for more flexible storytelling. For one, on several occasions he has modified the properties and mechanisms to shoot different types of web. Second, others can occasionally borrow/steal his webshooters.
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,352
In universe explanation: He got bitten by a radioactive spider and the mutation affected his wrists rather than his butt because spiders and humans have dramatically different types of bodies.

Versus a radioactive spider happened to bite the first human to ever create artificial webbing using school supplies, in addition to a wrist contraption that can effectively and consistently shoot the webs very far distances.

How can you honestly say the first one is more contrived than the second?

Yes, the natural wrist web shooters are arbitrary but so is the fact that Parker only seemed to get the beneficial aspects of the spider, too. Why didn't he grow multiple eyes and legs? Why didn't his mouth turn to mandibles? The creators arbitrarily gave him the abilities of a spider that would make him an effective hero while leaving behind the traits that would make him a monster. So why not arbitrarily give him the natural web shooters instead of contriving some other way for him to get them?


There was a storyline where his mutation continued to progress- First to this:

478


File:Peter_Parker_(Earth-616)_with_six_arms_from_Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_100.jpg


Then eventually this:

latest
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
That's a bit of a strawman, because I'm not asking how shooting webs from your wrists is realistic. I'm asking how Peter would gain a power spiders clearly don't have when the spider supposedly gave him spider powers (not counting spider sense because it's clear the writers thought that was something spider were capable of to some degree). In other words: if Peter had the ability to shoot webs, why would they come out of his wrists?
Because butt shooters don't look cool and just wouldn't work.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
There's lots of reasons mechanical webshooters are better and make for more flexible storytelling. For one, on several occasions he has modified the properties and mechanisms to shoot different types of web. Second, others can occasionally borrow/steal his webshooters.
You can still have mechanical web shooters that help with accuracy and change the properties of the webs and still have natural wrist shooters. The web pellets are the issue
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Because Peter Parker is supposed to be a Tony Stark/Reed Richards level genius who's held back by the fact that he's a kid with no money. His ability to make web shooters is supposed to show how resourceful he is with such limited resources.
 

Moose the Fattest Cat

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Dec 15, 2017
1,439
The only good explanation for the webshooters is one that combines "organic" and "mechanical" into a coherent justification. A few people have already posted this and they are right!

To be clear – Stan Lee's mechanical shooters, and Sam Raimi's organic shooters are both ultimately for the convenience of economical storytelling. Neither actually "makes more sense" than the other. Arguing one over the other is extremely limited – it's fine to prefer one or the other, but if you genuinely believe one makes sense and the other doesn't, you are only kidding yourself. OP's question is a good one. When you think of a common household spider, you think of a few things – webs, bites, and eight legs. Peter Parker's powers relate to none of those things. Asking "why?" to that is less silly than not questioning it.

Everyone keeps making the same joke is distressing. "Because if it were organic it'd come from his butt." Well, not necessarily. It'd come from his torso. Maybe it milks out of his nipples, Greg. But again, he isn't Man-Spider... he's Spider-Man – and so, just as he doesn't have eight limbs or eyes, web fluid wouldn't necessarily need to come out of his butt just because that's how real spiders do it.

The best version, I think, comes from Brian Michael Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man volume 1. In that version, Peter derives the formula from his father's work ,which he's able to finally crack in the rush of euphoria of his spider-mutation. It makes sense that his "spider-sense" would point him in a direction of creating webs –– just like a spider does not need to be taught how to weave web patterns, Peter learns this intuitively. It's both a mechanical invention, and a result of his organic powers.

It gets better once we learn that (in the Ultimate version) Dr. Parker's formula wasn't simply for a strong adhesive– it was part of the self-healing Venom suit that he was creating with Eddie Brock's dad.

So, in a sense, in this version the web fluid is organic (like a less advanced version of the Venom suit), and it is mechanical (the fluid and shooter are both simple tech that could conceivably be invented by a clever kid), and it could have only been discovered by Peter Parker (because it's his interpretation of his dad's formula while he's high on his new spider powers).


(supremely stan lee voice) HEY KIDS! THANKS FOR READING THIS MARVELOUS MESSAGE BOARD MISSIVE! HERE'S SOME FASCINATING FUN FACTS FOR YA!

The original Ditko/Lee comics called the web fluid "liquid cement" initially. If you think about it like that, it's easier to imagine the web fluid as something that isn't extraordinary in and of itself -- what's extraordinary is the creative way in which it's used as webbing.

One of the first things Peter tries to do was to capitalize on the idea and sell it. He's turned down because the webs disappear. (Which, incidentally, makes as little sense as the rest of it. Nobody else could see the potential here, or want to work on it to improve it? If you brought the web fluid on Shark Tank, you'd be a millionaire overnight).

Also, I hope everyone from this February 2018 thread has already seen and loved Into The Spider-Verse because searching for conversations about that is what led me here and to bumping this old bad boy.