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iliketopaint_93

Use of alt account
Member
Sep 3, 2018
597
This is ideal, but you can't even criticize a videogame on this forum without putting someone through a psychotic break and/or identity crisis. It makes posting here really exhausting sometimes.

You mean on the forum where people take their mahvel and starwar (and general disney-related shit) deathly seriously?

The forum has a heterosexual male slant. So whenever you attack those notions they'll come out of the woodwork and clutch their man-pearls "WHAT A FLAWED GENERALIZATION!"

Something as obvious as "men deride girly things" is now a point of contention. No one's EVER seen a man dismiss something because it's "girly" or "gay" now. Lol. Give me a break.

It should be obvious, but on forum where people strongly identify themselves with their favorite products to an unhealthy degree, it is not.

Also, note the key word in your replies: forum. Online forums have always been places that invite arguments. That's just the nature of message boards/social media. For whatever reason, we rarely want to use the internet for peaceful, relaxing discussions lol. This is because arguing can fun! But sometimes there are arguments where it feels like it's about wanting to use discourse to escalate into fucking someone else off when it doesn't need to happen (sometimes it needs to though), possibly due to experiencing difficult things going on in life making it feel necessary to put someone else under a microscope and take it out on them, which can be sad. And it's easy to point fingers at others but to be fair I and probably most forum users have done this a some point in online debates here. It can be tough not too when you're part of a passionate community because our emotional reactions feed into each other's. Sometimes it's necessary to get that heated, but often it's habitual imo, and can sometimes wire our brains to think in ways that are less healthy imo. Arguing is fun, but imo it's sad whenever it becomes about going for blood out of nowhere instead of approaching it from a more compassionate and critical place as would usually be more common offline.
 
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Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
It's astounding how many men love pop culture across various media (TV, movies, video games, etc) but mysteriously think pop music is bad. It's almost like men only like what's marketed exclusively toward them.
 

Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
It's almost like target demographics are a thing.

And yet men so often complain when a woman in their life doesn't know Star Wars or has never seen an episode of Game of Thrones. Women are expected to like popular entertainment geared toward men but men aren't expected to like popular entertainment geared toward women.
 

Touchdown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
573
Uh, no, that definitely got weird and old. Wrestle Era does start to grate, by the way.

Seeing one of the same 12 Mariah reaction gifs for everything is just weird -- how slavishly are you supposed to love these people? When the whole Ariana/Davidson thing was happening, someone here posted in support of her tweets saying she was "right as always!" If I said that to my boss I'd be such a transparent kiss-ass; hell, I don't speak so uncritically of the people I love most in the world, much less a public figure. It's honestly creepy, and I think it's because unlike being a fan of something more general and multi-faceted like a sport or a 30-years-running world-satirizing show, it is all about devotion to One Person, like watching someone giving props to Kim Jong Un or something. That's what pop demands of its fans.

Using a gif of a legend = being a slave? I don't know, being a super fan of a sports team of 18-22 year old guys and playing with them in "fantasy" leagues as they play with a ball on a field might be kinda weird to people as well. You can't seem to grasp the humor behind when we post about pop stars. Usually all our posts when it comes to our "faves" have some humor behind them. Must go right over your head
 

RedStep

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,655
And yet men so often complain when a woman in their life doesn't know Star Wars or has never seen an episode of Game of Thrones. Women are expected to like popular entertainment geared toward men but men aren't expected to like popular entertainment geared toward women.

A) Do you have evidence that these are the same people?

B) The examples you gave are targeted at multiple demographics. Both Star Wars and Game of Thrones have themes and eye candy for both genders, very specifically (Jon Snow topless isn't for us).

C) Can you show me how many men are expecting women to be familiar with WWE or Richard Marcinko novels and how many women by comparison are expecting men to be familiar with Harlequin novels or their favorite soap opera?

These things are highly targeted toward specific demographics, across the board, for better or worse. That's standard in today's world. It's been noted, but this is a very weird thread because it's trying to posit that people should be forced to like something they don't, or that they are stating they don't like something that they secretly do. I also don't like country music (Loretta Lynn's Van Lear Rose excepted), and that's as "manly" as it comes, so... maybe it's just taste?
 
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bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,303
I don't know too much pop but the lyrics aren't really directed at straight males a lot of the time anyways.
not that it needs to be, i think carly rae jepsen makes some good sounding music but i'm clearly not the intended audience lmao.
still enjoyed her albums tho, checked her out cause of word of mouth here and other music forums but i tried to tell my friends to check her out and got funny looks
 

Deleted member 25108

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,877
Don't like pop singing. Point blank period. Half the time it sounds like screeching.

The people who do have a decent vocal range don't get very far and the ones that do limit themselves to garbage filler songs because that's what sells.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,731
I'm a white dude, and I think the best indie artist at the moment is Mitski.

I'm not really sure it is easy to generalize about people's dislike within the genre of pop. It has a long history of being hated on by just about every demographic imaginable.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
Pop is great , some pop artists are better than others. I'm just constantly annoyed at how flamboyantly gay pop discussion has to constantly be for some people. Ooo you posted a sassy gif or hit me with a " thank u, next" because we disagreed, you're just so clever aren't you.
PopEra hyperbole is obnoxious as heck too, remember the " this song by Sophie >anything by Beethoven , Mozart " thread?
<shudder>
 
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oledome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,907
Pop is more than Britney, people being their queen and saying yaaaas. I like some pop tunes.
 

Bonefish

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,717
Dumbos can blame toxic masculinity all they want for someone not liking trash like Ariana Grande

Meanwhile I'll spin the shit out of the Kate Bush vinyl sets I ordered for myself once I get them :P
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,467
It's astounding how many men love pop culture across various media (TV, movies, video games, etc) but mysteriously think pop music is bad. It's almost like men only like what's marketed exclusively toward them.
Or... bear with me here, but perhaps it's that... some people happen to like pop culture movies and happen to not like pop music?

I mean seriously, why would one think of correlating these things at all? They are different medium and different content. It makes no sense to think that someone who, say, likes Star Wars, should also like pop and to hint at some sort of hypocrisy if they don't.
 

Kay

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,077
I can respect the craft of most pop music while not enjoying the art.
 

kvetcha

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,835
I don't know too much pop but the lyrics aren't really directed at straight males a lot of the time anyways.
not that it needs to be, i think carly rae jepsen makes some good sounding music but i'm clearly not the intended audience lmao.
still enjoyed her albums tho, checked her out cause of word of mouth here and other music forums but i tried to tell my friends to check her out and got funny looks

Carly Rae is my kryptonite. She's so damn good.
 
OP
OP
Iloelemen

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
Or... bear with me here, but perhaps it's that... some people happen to like pop culture movies and happen to not like pop music?

I mean seriously, why would one think of correlating these things at all? They are different medium and different content. It makes no sense to think that someone who, say, likes Star Wars, should also like pop and to hint at some sort of hypocrisy if they don't.
I think the person was trying to relate people who like corporate capitalist movies and games while hating pop music for being corporate and capitalist.

But yeah, demographics, the difference in medium and the difference in the quality of output between these mediums do play a part.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
It's entirely possible that the perception straight guys aren't into pop is entirely your own perception filtered through expectations, and or your limited sphere of experiences.

Speaking broadly, pop is pop. Which means it's always going to be simultaneously generally popular and also hated as not being "real music"/"good as [whatever was playing when you were a kid]"/etc. It's been a thing literally for hundreds of years at least, back when the pop music of the day was stuff like Liszt.
Using a gif of a legend = being a slave? I don't know, being a super fan of a sports team of 18-22 year old guys and playing with them in "fantasy" leagues as they play with a ball on a field might be kinda weird to people as well. You can't seem to grasp the humor behind when we post about pop stars. Usually all our posts when it comes to our "faves" have some humor behind them. Must go right over your head

It goes over people's heads because it's often Poe's Law in effect.
 

JMeth

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
251
Illinois
I use to listen to a lot of pop music when younger up until by early 30's, but now I cannot stomach most of it at all. To my ears a lot of it does sound the same, there seems to be little difference between a lot of artist.
 
OP
OP
Iloelemen

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
I thought Max Martin, a white dude, is the most successful pop song writer of all time.

Yeah it's a problem of the industry, how the majority of it is still being led by white guys behind the scenes led by this swedish person despite it being a genre fronted by lots of women.

And as a genre with many hardcore gay fans, it's sad how there's barely any actual gay pop stars that are actually successful. Sam Smith is the only big one?

Also kinda disturbing how lots of black artists are (from my observations) arbitrarily categorized into RnB (which admittedly I am not immune to).

Oh and Dr. Luke.... 'nuff said.
 

kvetcha

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,835
Yeah it's a problem of the industry, how the majority of it is still being led by white guys behind the scenes led by this swedish person despite it being a genre fronted by lots of women.

And as a genre with many hardcore gay fans, it's sad how there's barely any actual gay pop stars that are actually successful. Sam Smith is the only big one?

Also kinda disturbing how lots of black artists are (from my observations) arbitrarily categorized into RnB (which admittedly I am not immune to).

Oh and Dr. Luke.... 'nuff said.

Barry Manilow?
 
OP
OP
Iloelemen

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
It's entirely possible that the perception straight guys aren't into pop is entirely your own perception filtered through expectations, and or your limited sphere of experiences.
Seeing as how I didn't even have data to back up my original post and seeing as how a lot of posters have disputed my claims, yes.
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
Yeah, I was being a little tongue in cheek. George Michael's gotta count?
Yup, closeted at the time aswell but still counts. Again to the OPs point, it's not that straight men hate pop, we actually do like pop music. It's just that modern pop music is shit as the pop genre peaked in quality in the 80's due to crossover appeal.
 
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Touchdown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
573
Pro tip: I didn't read this post because you kicked it off with this shitty bon mot. Just something to think about if you want people to engage with you.

Pro Tip: When you switch topics from the subject at hand to the tone of a comment, it shows you don't have a good response to it so you're just going to dismiss it and attack the person you're conversing with.
 

teruterubozu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,010
Yeah it's a problem of the industry, how the majority of it is still being led by white guys behind the scenes led by this swedish person despite it being a genre fronted by lots of women.

And as a genre with many hardcore gay fans, it's sad how there's barely any actual gay pop stars that are actually successful. Sam Smith is the only big one?

Also kinda disturbing how lots of black artists are (from my observations) arbitrarily categorized into RnB (which admittedly I am not immune to).

Oh and Dr. Luke.... 'nuff said.

Well songwriting comes down to talent. The industry is filled with both men and women performers who sing but don't write their own songs, and that's been true since the Motown days. Still there are plenty of women in pop today like Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Sia, etc. that are accomplished songwriters and have a lot of pull in the industry. I don't know, this whole thread is filled with blanket statements without any subtlety with the intent to trigger responses. Not sure what's happening here.
 
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kvetcha

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,835
Well songwriting comes down to talent. The industry is filled with both men and women performers who sing but don't write their own songs, and that's been true since the Motown days. Still there are plenty of women in pop today like Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Sia, etc. that are accomplished songwriters and have a lot of pull in the industry. I don't know, this whole thread is filled with blanket statements without any subtlety with the intent to trigger responses. Not sure what's happening here.

Most people aren't really interested in a discussion so much as a fight.
 

nemoral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
Fiddler's Green
Some pop is okay, some pop is garbage. The idea of listening to nothing but pop seems as strange to me as people who listen to nothing but chamber music. I like a wide range of music, including some pop artists, but they're just another set of musicians I like, not something I follow or obsess on.
 

rhandino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,629
Why does it seem like straight men are more dismissive of Pop Music (especially those by or for women) compared to say, women and queer people?
Well, that is because a lot of straight men are trash.

Bq9yvxv.gif


Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
 

Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
14,632
Syracuse, NY
I had a number of people including my best friend call me a "fag" because I liked that first Maroon 5 album. When Lady Gaga became popular he didn't seem to have an issue listening to her or Ke$ha. My mom still gives me weird looks because she knows how much I liked 1989 by Taylor Swift.

I grew up with a single mother who listened to the pop songs on the radio, yet somehow I wasn't supposed to actually enjoy pop music when I got older. I don't get it.
 

Deleted member 9746

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,406
I love how people bring up Carly Rae Jepsen to prove they like pop music when most of them wouldn't give her the time of day if she was still topping the charts.
 

Eros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,709
I gotta say I don't agree with the people that are comparing liking pop music to liking the pop culture of other art forms/entertainment. Snobbery isn't across the board all the time. It isn't for me. I wouldn't call myself a music snob (I have been though), but I'm worlds more snobby about music than I am film. I like a good film, sure. But I just don't get into it that deep. I won't drink coffee from chains, but I'll f up some Taco Bell. Etc.
 

Blackflag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,968
I dunno I just listen to what I like. In movies and reading, I need strong female characters. In music, I don't listen to much pop music except the God, Prince.
And yet men so often complain when a woman in their life doesn't know Star Wars or has never seen an episode of Game of Thrones. Women are expected to like popular entertainment geared toward men but men aren't expected to like popular entertainment geared toward women.

Is this true in general? My SO would roll hers eyes all the way out of her head if I tried to tell her anything about superhero movies or star wars so I never discuss it and don't expect her to care or go see them with me.
 

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
I'm straight and it all just depends on the type of pop music you are talking about. If it's kodern pop music, it sucks. Period.
 
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