Why indeed. Is that really the case? I know why I don't really care for it (at least modern pop that I've heard), it's boring and predictable to me. I'm sure a lot of women and queer people think like that as well, and sure toxic masculinity also plays a role in some cases, I don't doubt that.
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Why does it seem like straight men are more dismissive of Pop Music (especially those by or for women) compared to say, women and queer people?
- Thread starter Iloelemen
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Yeah admittedly the original post is generalizing and solely from perceptions based solely on on what I saw on the internet (I thought I could get away with it by using tons of "seems" and feels". I think something that also pushed me into making this thread is how, from what I saw, a lot of the places online for hardcore pop fans lean towards gay (Of course it is generalizing to assume these places are gay, or to paint the music taste of a whole group of people and I thought that my observation could be given leeway by being gay myself). Why are these places reminiscent of a specific subset of gay culture? Who knows.
Perhaps the ultimate answer is that it "seemed" that way because of biases, perceptions and stereotypes, the internet inflates hate for something which one might think is from straight men due to stereotypes and biases but not necessarily so, listeners have each of their own taste as well as their tolerance for something commercial, Imagery and marketing, and that that pop music as a whole has these specific set of characteristics, lots of it bad, that makes it garbage compared to other genres.
I guess it is what it is.
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Have we been given a definition of what is or isn't considered "Pop"? Is R&B being excluded like it usually is when discussing Pop because... reasons?
There are plenty of straight black males who like R&B, especially 90's R&B but that's apparently not Pop music for some reason.
What is or isn't Pop music seems rather subjective, Beyoncé was considered R&B when she was in Destiny's Child but now that more white people listen to her she's all of a sudden a Pop artists.
There are plenty of straight black males who like R&B, especially 90's R&B but that's apparently not Pop music for some reason.
What is or isn't Pop music seems rather subjective, Beyoncé was considered R&B when she was in Destiny's Child but now that more white people listen to her she's all of a sudden a Pop artists.
The premise of the thread is flawed. While I'm sure that there are men who don't listen to pop because it's "girly", I'd wager that the vast majority of men listen to what they enjoy listening to and don't listen to what they don't enjoy listening to.
I mean, the argument can be turned around and you could question why relatively few women like metal. Is this due to "toxic femininity" where women secretly enjoy the music but won't listen to it because it's too "manly", or is it just that women in general don't enjoy listening to heavy music?
I mean, the argument can be turned around and you could question why relatively few women like metal. Is this due to "toxic femininity" where women secretly enjoy the music but won't listen to it because it's too "manly", or is it just that women in general don't enjoy listening to heavy music?
I have never negated the fact that men have been creating music, I stated that If you, as a straight male, amongst your group of straight male friends, said, "I like Justin Bieber's songs", most of them would label you as "gay". And this is a fact, and this happens a lot.
I'd assume it's because pop is aimed at and marketed to a feminine and/or gay audience.
In much the opposite way to how Call of Duty is marketed to a masculine audience.
Sure guys can like pop, but it becomes a marketing loop where more girls buy pop so it's marketed at girls, so more girls buy pop, etc.
In much the opposite way to how Call of Duty is marketed to a masculine audience.
Sure guys can like pop, but it becomes a marketing loop where more girls buy pop so it's marketed at girls, so more girls buy pop, etc.
I am someone who can hardly hear the same stuff 2 times in a row. Pop culture is almost the same music from different artists representing the Zeitgeist. I also can't hear most hip hop songs because of that. It's plain boring.
However, the Eurovision Song Contest is extremely popular in the gay community and I don't know why.
However, the Eurovision Song Contest is extremely popular in the gay community and I don't know why.
I have been challenging myself over the last few years to listen a bit more to pop music - as a teen I was definitely someone that rejected pop outright, except for those artists that seemed to 'ascend' (eg Michael Jackson).
Nowadays I just try to enjoy music regardless of who makes it and the genre - I appreciate them all as snapshots of an era, the musical trends of the time and a window into peoples tastes too! I quite enjoy listening to key pop music tracks from a spread of a few consecutive years to hear how particular popular genres evolved (eg disco to post-disco).
That said, I rarely repeat listening to tracks in quick succession (my girlfriend can listen to the same track again and again - insanity) - gets a bit monotonous, I prefer exploring new tracks!
Nowadays I just try to enjoy music regardless of who makes it and the genre - I appreciate them all as snapshots of an era, the musical trends of the time and a window into peoples tastes too! I quite enjoy listening to key pop music tracks from a spread of a few consecutive years to hear how particular popular genres evolved (eg disco to post-disco).
That said, I rarely repeat listening to tracks in quick succession (my girlfriend can listen to the same track again and again - insanity) - gets a bit monotonous, I prefer exploring new tracks!
I dunno. Even as a little kid listening to pop music across a variety of genres it was never my thing. Like even grade school me was mostly listening to video game sound tracks like Megaman X and Ocarina of Time and Sonic the Hedgehog (Holy shit I loved Ice Cap Zone). It was always a very rare situation when I saw a music video of something I genuinely liked on MTV and I kind of religiously sat around with MTV on back when late night was still music videos 24/7 because even though I generally didn't like it, the one time something I did like came on would be hype as fuck especially if it was from something I had never heard before.
We just had a thread not too long ago about straight men not liking something else. I don't think it was pop music but yoga or something?
Edit: The thread was Astrology.
We just had a thread not too long ago about straight men not liking something else. I don't think it was pop music but yoga or something?
Edit: The thread was Astrology.
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Right on the ball.
As a gay man as well you have a far more open mind on cultures and music in general.
Straight guys are very "image conscious" and are brought up in a certain way that isn't not acceptable to like A B and C. This also goes for gaming and movies.
Most straight guys I know are dismissive of Pixar movies for instance despite being some of the best films of our generation, they are dismissive of Nintendo games despite being some of the best games of any generation.
User Warned: Trolling; account still in junior phase
They need to show their fragile manliness by listening to something considered to be hardcore.
So fragile...
So fragile...
Because it's usually over-manufactured and generic. I can only stand so much of the same cookie-cutter dance track.
That's not to say I don't love pop though. It was my #1 listened to genre in my 2018 Spotify rankings. But that's mostly because of smaller artists like Men I Trust, DRAMA and Tops.
That's not to say I don't love pop though. It was my #1 listened to genre in my 2018 Spotify rankings. But that's mostly because of smaller artists like Men I Trust, DRAMA and Tops.
I'm not straight and i think pretty much all popular music is shit, with a few exceptions here and there. It's just derived from what music is popular nowadays and how popular music is engineered. At times interesting projects get popular but for the most part it's just the usual mindless corporate drivel. I don't do celebrity worship or following either so i judge music solely on its merits and ignore the nonsense and hype around it.
I do not know even one person who would call me "gay" for that or any other reason, and I encourage you to make some new friends.
Like you said, it's important to keep in perspective how most of the internet is a more toxified version of real life, and how it can affect your mood sometimes. There is obviously some truth to that stereotype though in part because of how gender roles and misperceptions of cultures have historically been dictated at society via powers that be. Also most creative work released officially by an artist tends to be a statement or dialogue between them and the audience, and sometimes the audience is general, sometimes someone in specific, but overall it seems like the concepts of music that should be associated with one gender or culture or whatever is all becoming recognized as more antiquated while fans of music continue getting older, branching out, progressing, connecting, etc.
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Depends on the kind of pop music you're referring to.
You can't deny that stuff like N'Sync, Britney Spears, Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, etc is specifically marketed toward and geared towards girls.
There's certainly other pop music (or pop/rock) that men seem to be into though. Michael Jackson, Elton John, Bowie, Prince, etc.
You can't deny that stuff like N'Sync, Britney Spears, Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, etc is specifically marketed toward and geared towards girls.
There's certainly other pop music (or pop/rock) that men seem to be into though. Michael Jackson, Elton John, Bowie, Prince, etc.
I think the artist fandom's have a lot to do with the dislike of certain artists. As a teenage boy it got tiresome hearing girls go crazy over New Kids. I'm sure it's the same thing for teenage boys today. Fast forward a few years to being an adult having seen the pop cycle rinse and repeat you learn that most artist are going to end up flash in the pans with no longevity. It makes it difficult to put to much stock in an artist that sounds like the latest spin on another artist. I am sure there is some sexism as well since a lady at work told me she thought I was gay based on me always playing slow jams.
As a straight guy, I can disclose without recrimination that I enjoy Pixar films and Nintendo games. I never knew there to be any stigma associated in taking interest in that type of fandom. New development for me.
However, taste in music and film can pigeonhole you.
In my immediate circle, it's not kosher to be too much into female pop stars. But at the same time, my favorite live concerts tend to be of female pop stars. I'd rather watch Katy Perry or Kylie Minogue than I would Kiss or Metallica. I like and enjoy the music of Bruce Springsteen and bands like Arcade Fire, but if I want to have fun and be entertained, I tend to defer to female pop acts.
True, but imo it can also be fun to make sense of music we like via descriptions or gauging how good or bad it is, etc without it getting to a point of becoming a game of oscars
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I'm happy your reality is different than mine and that of a thousand others. But what you are saying is the same as "racism doesn't exist since no one has ever been racist towards me".
I don't feel that this is a thing in my circles but I'm too old to know what kids like. I think it's ok too not like cheap manufactured pop music though that used to be thrown out when I was young.
White male here. I will dance all night to 90s pop unapologetically but in private I'm not really drawn to much of it. Excluding MJ, Prince etc. I can't relate to half naked girls singing to songs they had no input in creating.
Can a case be made that some pop music, even when highly succesful, can be so desperately calculated by the composers to be the music they want to make that it loses enough cultural and emotional value to be considered disposable? If so, which song should we use as our case to prove this hypothesis?
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Pop music or mainstream music is 99% boring. It's calculated through and through to appease certain demographics. The Artist itself is nothing more than a product formed to create the highest revenue. Pop music is live bad as well, mostly some half naked girls dancing around to mediocre vocals because of course the singer/group has to dance too or worst case the vocals are playback. Why would anyone go to a concert to hear anything pre recorded? Artists who do that have 0 respect from me.
It's easily digestible cost, no corners, no pashion, it's just not for me.
Pop or better said mainstream music is pretty comparable to by the number games who run after whatever is a trend atm.
It's easily digestible cost, no corners, no pashion, it's just not for me.
Pop or better said mainstream music is pretty comparable to by the number games who run after whatever is a trend atm.
I've been bumping Ariana and kpop groups all month. Maybe I should re-evaluate my straightness.
I think this is a big piece to it. There's tons of straight men who listen to pop, it wouldn't be the biggest genre it was ignored by a huge part of the population. Just that some straight dudes love hating on popular stuff and must let everyone know they hate it. Just look at any marvel thread and see how many guys run in there to announce how bad comic book films are.
Though I still think some people's ideas of masculinity, and what a man should do weighs into this. In general, I think people too easily brush off and ignore certain things just because they think it's for women, and I think that has an effect on how some men perceive pop music, especially made by women.
I think this is a big piece to it. There's tons of straight men who listen to pop, it wouldn't be the biggest genre it was ignored by a huge part of the population. Just that some straight dudes love hating on popular stuff and must let everyone know they hate it. Just look at any marvel thread and see how many guys run in there to announce how bad comic book films are.
Though I still think some people's ideas of masculinity, and what a man should do weighs into this. In general, I think people too easily brush off and ignore certain things just because they think it's for women, and I think that has an effect on how some men perceive pop music, especially made by women.
Cool story. I guess now's a good time to mention how you completely ignored my calling out pop fans for bullying, which I see constantly? And to be honest, I'm not sure what the point of your post is -- who has the better anecdotes?
Maybe check yourself the next time you tell someone -- and this literally what you said -- "IF YOU SAY THIS AROUND YOUR FRIENDS THEY'LL CALL YOU "GAY!"" Like, specifically, my friends? You don't know my friends. And that's a dick thing to say anyway, not to mention completely out of touch with what's going on in 2018.
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If anyone would look at my Spotify playlist they'd probably think I'm super gay
https://open.spotify.com/user/ivaneirox/playlist/2JTY3JBdpMW6TvrWcYYtBr?si=gPLyFf4bRxGVkuTliAMryg
I'm straight.
https://open.spotify.com/user/ivaneirox/playlist/2JTY3JBdpMW6TvrWcYYtBr?si=gPLyFf4bRxGVkuTliAMryg
I'm straight.
I'm a straight man an indeed do not like pop music or Hip-hop (in general, not just female led).
The reason is, for me, is it all just sounds "flat". Why does it sounds flat to me ? Probably because in my teens, i became a metal head and thus got used to listen to a a music style that is quite "rough", "bumpy" and sometimes extremely "complicated". And Pop music is the total opposition of this : it's streamlined to an extreme, smooth as butter and with a simplicity that is enforced by the radio format of "5 minutes songs are too long already" (when what i listen to usually range between 6min to 30 with an average around 15).
So, as for why straight guys tend to dislike pop, maybe it comes from our "edgy teen years" where we tend to go towards more "harsh" sounding music (metal, techno, rap, whatever). And once you're used to this kind of music, i think it's kinda hard to go back.
I'll use a weird analogy but i think it's like food : once you are used to eat very spicy food all the time, trying something that is not spicy at all feels very bland. And in this analogy, pop music isn't spicy while almost anything else is spicier in some shape or form or at the very least with more "character".
As for why most girls or some guys (gay or not) would not turn to edgier music during their edgy teen years, i have no clue. It's just something that i'm pretty sure happened to me and most of my friends.
The reason is, for me, is it all just sounds "flat". Why does it sounds flat to me ? Probably because in my teens, i became a metal head and thus got used to listen to a a music style that is quite "rough", "bumpy" and sometimes extremely "complicated". And Pop music is the total opposition of this : it's streamlined to an extreme, smooth as butter and with a simplicity that is enforced by the radio format of "5 minutes songs are too long already" (when what i listen to usually range between 6min to 30 with an average around 15).
So, as for why straight guys tend to dislike pop, maybe it comes from our "edgy teen years" where we tend to go towards more "harsh" sounding music (metal, techno, rap, whatever). And once you're used to this kind of music, i think it's kinda hard to go back.
I'll use a weird analogy but i think it's like food : once you are used to eat very spicy food all the time, trying something that is not spicy at all feels very bland. And in this analogy, pop music isn't spicy while almost anything else is spicier in some shape or form or at the very least with more "character".
As for why most girls or some guys (gay or not) would not turn to edgier music during their edgy teen years, i have no clue. It's just something that i'm pretty sure happened to me and most of my friends.
Im a guy and I think pop music is manufactured and insincere. It's generally about the image and not music. I guess I should feel bad that I feel that way
With the amount of moderation here, how is stuff like this even acceptable to post?
I will be the first to admit that I am guilty of this. I have a whole playlist on my Spotify that is made up of cheesy pop music from the 80's 90's and today. The title of the playlist is literally called "Guilty Pleasure" lol
My two best friends and my Dad are hardcore metal fans who would die of laughter if they saw half the songs on that playlist. I think thats why I kind of hide the playlist.
My two best friends and my Dad are hardcore metal fans who would die of laughter if they saw half the songs on that playlist. I think thats why I kind of hide the playlist.
Why is pop music more popular with women and gay men than it is straight men? That seems like the less inflammatory title for this thread
I'm not even sure what all is considered pop music, but admittedly it has a negative connotation for me. I'm straight and male. I was a huge Spice Girls fan after mid 90's though. For me the grown distaste towards pop music has more to do with my age than my sexual preference and gender I think. And ABBA in example is still catchy as hell, not something I'd have on my playlist though. Something like T.Swift isn't even catchy to me.
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Yeah sort of this, my 17 year old daughter saw Taylor Swift 4 or 5 times up to her 14th Birthday, then she wanted to come with me to see NoFX, The Pixies and Nine Inch Nails. Everyone grows up, claiming it's just white men who are dismissive of pop music is wrong and a little bit insulting.
I see constant bullying of non-pop music fans by pop fans who treat others like nerds and incels, so we can talk about your experiences if I can talk about those.
I don't like pop music just like I just don't like mcdonalds. Stop calling me sexist for having standards OP
I grew up in the 90s and pop was trash in the 90s. Nsync, backstreet, Britney and the like. And it was strongly geared towards teen girls.
Today you have better pop than we had and genres have way more crossover. Boys today will have less of a dislike for pop than boys of my era and i think a large part of that is because of the rise and influence of hip hop on pop music.
Today you have better pop than we had and genres have way more crossover. Boys today will have less of a dislike for pop than boys of my era and i think a large part of that is because of the rise and influence of hip hop on pop music.
How? You think many toxic masculine straight guys are going to reduce themselves to watching cartoons?
Perhaps not in your circle of friends but yes it's a thing.
I think it's more because pop gaf is and was insufferable with their posting
It's hard to like something that maybe doesn't always sound great (in my opinion) and is not always written to include you. I don't like music that bashes a lady, but a song complaining about a man doesn't do it for me either.
There is some Pop I find catchy, and some of it sounds boring. But I feel that way about a lot of music. Finding the hidden gems within an album is always fun.
There is some Pop I find catchy, and some of it sounds boring. But I feel that way about a lot of music. Finding the hidden gems within an album is always fun.
Oh yeah, that toxic masculinity that prevents guys from having fun on Oscar winning/nominated and usually highly regarded animated movies. The same straight guys that plays fantasy games, watch comic superhero movies and Star Wars, play LEGO and are usually regarded by the society as "grown-up babies".
You do know that usually it's the fathers that go the movies with their kids, right?
Wasn't that because of posting tons of gifs and various "queens" wars, and not because of the taste in music?
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