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Why does Germany have weak soft power (in terms of pop culture)?
- Thread starter HomokHarcos
- Start date
It's been like this for centuries though. Germany's most important contribution to European history was the Prussian army, followed by Nietzsche and Karl Marx. Yes, sometimes Germany has been known to produce Kunst, but who cares about Thomas Mann or Hermann Hesse?
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Medicopter 117 or bust!
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If you think about who's the most famous German of all time you'll probably find your answer. But you still got Adidas and the German auto industry as far as global influence goes.
This reminds me a of a friend's theory, which was that the defeated Axis powers retreated into their own tormented and guilty psyches, and that's why all the absolute most horrifying porn comes from either Germany, Italy or Japan.
It's probably because thier society kinda looked inwards especially when they were divided. And also a lot of soul searching after world war 2. The poster who said that if someone shouted German superiority and you start to wander if they are neonazis is correct.
I also see a lot of German influence in Japan in anime.
I also see a lot of German influence in Japan in anime.
My father-in-law was involved in the production of The Tin Drum somehow, Assistant Producer or something. Once I read about it and learned that it won the Palme d'Or at Cannes in 1979 I wasn't surprised that German cinema hadn't taken over the world.
This thread reminded me about the movie and after reading up on it yep, my opinion hasn't changed
This thread reminded me about the movie and after reading up on it yep, my opinion hasn't changed
I don't think Germany is doing any worse than the rest of Europe on the popculture front. I probably have more random German stuff floating around in my brain than French stuff:
Alphaville
Rammstein
Scorpion
Nena
BMW/Mercedes/Porsche
"German Engineering"
With the exception of maybe Sweden, I think that most of Continental-Europe underperforms when it comes to soft-power. In terms of non-Anglo countries I think that Japan has been the most successful at infiltrating the North American subconscious.
Alphaville
Rammstein
Scorpion
Nena
BMW/Mercedes/Porsche
"German Engineering"
With the exception of maybe Sweden, I think that most of Continental-Europe underperforms when it comes to soft-power. In terms of non-Anglo countries I think that Japan has been the most successful at infiltrating the North American subconscious.
Uhm... Einstein maybe? Honestly no idea who the most famous german is supposed to be.
I think this is the correct take here.
There are very few non-anglo countries that have any sort of pull when it comes to pop-culture.
"The Austrians have completed the feat of turning Beethoven into an Austrian and Hitler into a German" - Billy Wilder
It's a bit funny that the first item on your list is a band named after a famous French film.
Finland at least has Moomin, very popular around the world especially in Asian countries, thanks to the anime, and this year a Moomin theme park opened up in Japan.
Our cultural output atleast on the tv/movie side is just so one dimensional. It's either folklore shit for old people or a boring crime story and in many cases it's both at the same time. And we are all paying monthly for that crap too.
LOL.
I actually paid little attention to the other names because Arnold's popped out at me.
I was going to cast doubt on Italy's contribution until I remember Dario Argento's filmography which really blurs the line between "exploitative films" and "flat out torture porn".
I really enjoyed Toni Erdmann and Victoria, and I think the 2000's have produced some great German movies in general ;o But I think you're referring more to the 'made for TV' stuff? I think that is pretty low quality throughout Europe, with only some exceptions here and there. Except British and Scandinavian productions, somehow they always seem to be of a higher quality. But I wouldnt advise you to watch some Dutch 'crime series' either, they all pretty much suck :P
OP
OP
Germany is mainly producing stuff in German so it's reach is limited.
Japan (Manga, Anime, Games) and to a certain degree South Korea (K-Pop) have found their niches (and outside of them they vanish the same).
Same reason Rammstein succeeded internationally.
The UK obviously produces stuff in English so that will lead to a much bigger potential audience by default.
It's close to impossible to get international success on the level of english speaking blockbusters with a non-english speaking movie, especially in the US.
Japan (Manga, Anime, Games) and to a certain degree South Korea (K-Pop) have found their niches (and outside of them they vanish the same).
Same reason Rammstein succeeded internationally.
The UK obviously produces stuff in English so that will lead to a much bigger potential audience by default.
It's close to impossible to get international success on the level of english speaking blockbusters with a non-english speaking movie, especially in the US.
There's a Glaswegian movement for independence too? Edinburgh is the better city anyway.
It's genuinely tragic. Our TV license is expensive (210 € per year) and everything outside of documentaries is trash. Mord mit Aussicht and Tatortreiniger were solid I suppose.
In terms of entertainment in film and TV in particular, Germany has been an extremely heavy consumer of American media, and this has been the case for a very long time. This has reduced the incentive and desire towards a large expansion of the domestic entertainment industry.
The love of American entertainment, even beyond the general consumption, has been catalyzed by a couple of factors. One is the influence of America in Germany, specifically West Germany, following World War II, in the form of military bases and military personnel and other factors that have made American entertainment readily available for a long time in the country. Even in East Germany, where American entertainment was officially banned, American stuff was still secretly widely desired and consumed. The long-standing integration of American entertainment into the German ethos in turn has generated a lot of nostalgia for American entertainment content, which is even more pronounced than in some other countries. A second factor is that that dubbing in Germany has long been a common accepted and very widespread practice, and is perceived by the average German as "normal" (in contrast to other nations where this is uncommon and/or disliked). This in turn creates a low barrier for the average German to enjoy American media.
The love of American entertainment, even beyond the general consumption, has been catalyzed by a couple of factors. One is the influence of America in Germany, specifically West Germany, following World War II, in the form of military bases and military personnel and other factors that have made American entertainment readily available for a long time in the country. Even in East Germany, where American entertainment was officially banned, American stuff was still secretly widely desired and consumed. The long-standing integration of American entertainment into the German ethos in turn has generated a lot of nostalgia for American entertainment content, which is even more pronounced than in some other countries. A second factor is that that dubbing in Germany has long been a common accepted and very widespread practice, and is perceived by the average German as "normal" (in contrast to other nations where this is uncommon and/or disliked). This in turn creates a low barrier for the average German to enjoy American media.
A ton of "American" food was stuff brought by German immigrants and tweaked when they came over here.
Just watch german carnival. It's so embarrassing and it's basically all that is needed to understand why our culture will never translate internationally.
Let me finish up this loose end, even though I know what you did.
Liszt is Hungarian though...
to be fair most culture in late-capitalism is horrible so it's not unique to Germany.
Soft power is not only pop culture though, they have other kinds of soft powers that others don't have.
Any examples of bands doing this? And bands that have succeeded?
Like what for example?
I'm just asking because I'm interested. I agree that I, as a Swede, don't partake in much German pop culture. Some movies here and there and a show now and then though. Blind Guardian are great. I think there is more that doesn't come to mind or where I don't recognize the German origin. It's like swedish film industry, some is very bad and some is very specifically swedish and may not interest foreign audiences.
I listen to a lot of German Stoner Metal, they almost always sing in English. As for succeeded, that's harder to say as metal is so niche. They're not like pop stars I guess, so still no huge cultural impact.