Agree that "nothing" or "normal" is not appropriate. There should be some descriptor -- the state of being cisgender needs a word just as much as the state of being transgender.
But, I'm fine with cis, so I'll leave the wordsmithing to others.
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Why do some cisgender people hate the term cisgender?
- Thread starter Ryo Hazuki
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But, I'm fine with cis, so I'll leave the wordsmithing to others.
I honestly think a lot of people don't know what it means, and when they see it being thrown at them, they just assume it's an insult and go on the defensive.
Trans is a broad spectrum so you are welcome to say trans
You do not make a compelling argument against cis here.
And I take great offense btw that you think my gender can't be incidental to me just because I'm trans.
"Cis" implies that there is no hierarchy of "Normal People vs Not Normal People", and that makes people uncomfortable. Sometimes it's on purpose by people who hate anyone not Cis, and sometimes it's a result of ignorance and a lack of knowledge leading to a sheltered worldview.
The problem is that people are all too quick to let non-cis people get hurt, instead of withstanding some discomfort or doing the smallest amount of work. So many excuses as to why people don't like "cis" really translate to being ok with other people getting hurt if they don't have to allow their worldview to change.
The problem is that people are all too quick to let non-cis people get hurt, instead of withstanding some discomfort or doing the smallest amount of work. So many excuses as to why people don't like "cis" really translate to being ok with other people getting hurt if they don't have to allow their worldview to change.
I'm not looking for a label or my gender identity or anything. I just want to know if someone who goes on a zoom call to discuss trans issues or something, who was assigned male at birth, goes by he/him, calls himself a man, but that's pretty much the extent to how they think about gender, if he gets called "cis" do you think that's an appropriate use of the word or it's not?
If most say it's not then yeah I guess I really have no problem with cisgender as a term.
No
100% pushing back against why people have an irrational reaction to a benign descriptor is 100% productive
This thread isn't the I don't like cis support group where everyone holds your hand and validates your position
Cisgender just means your personal identity, your gender, matches your birth sex.
If you do not find that to be true, then that is not you.
being cis and trans have ZERO to do with presentation.
A trans woman was a woman since day 1. Don't care how many years society saw her as a man.
Drag queens and "super gay" men that have a super feminine gender expression can still be cis as fuck.
it is 100% about how you identify. Whatever you can or you want to do anything about it is irrelevant.
In this thread, yes.
But someone new to the term might not grasp it's importance at the first explanation. I know I didn't... I had to be exposed to the term more frequently to understand it's significance.
Should the term "Cis" be accepted : Yes
We need to keep the conversation alive and we will get there.
I just don't think portraying people who have yet to grasp the importance of the term as "Bad" is a good way to get there.
Again... I'm not denying that there are assholes who are simply transphobic but, not everyone fits that mold.
I really only started hearing the term over the last few years and it felt very sudden on various shows I listen to. I didn't even know what it meant, but the way it was said and the context it was being used in sounded like an insult. But then it didn't. Then it did. I was confused. It's not even an easy word to look up. Why the fuck would I assume it's c-i-s?!
All that being said, now that I know what it is, I have no issue with the word. It seems academic. But any word can be insulting given the context. Like if you brush aside somebody's opinion and say it's cause they're cisgender, that could be accurate or it could be dismissive and insulting. The word itself is fine but the usage may not be, like if somebody said to me, "it's cause you're a Jew." Yeah, it might be factually accurate, and the words in a vacuum are fine, but that could definitely be said offensively.
But there are no examples in the OP. So it's important to note that if I share an anecdote or give an example where I think it might be okay to be offended by the word cisgender, that doesn't mean I'm speaking for all instances where a cisgender person is simply being an insensitive piece of shit.
All that being said, now that I know what it is, I have no issue with the word. It seems academic. But any word can be insulting given the context. Like if you brush aside somebody's opinion and say it's cause they're cisgender, that could be accurate or it could be dismissive and insulting. The word itself is fine but the usage may not be, like if somebody said to me, "it's cause you're a Jew." Yeah, it might be factually accurate, and the words in a vacuum are fine, but that could definitely be said offensively.
But there are no examples in the OP. So it's important to note that if I share an anecdote or give an example where I think it might be okay to be offended by the word cisgender, that doesn't mean I'm speaking for all instances where a cisgender person is simply being an insensitive piece of shit.
I don't think anyone is portraying people who have not grasped it but would be willing to listen as bad, though.
I'm not gonna disagree, it was probably a poor example on my part.
To me, I just really dislike anyone being given a label. It ties into memories of being assumed as straight as a younger self, having a whole future assumed. Just from that experience, I've always preferred people to be able to say who they are when they feel comfortable. But that's off-topic, yes being called Cis isn't a slur, and being upset over it is likely either rooted in transphobia or ignorance to the subject.
In the context of someone brushing someone's opinion aside "because they are cis"...
What is the opinion?
How was it expressed?
Etc...
I'd argue cis people in general don't think of their gender too often, but ultimately the decision is up to the individual.
I'm NB, use primarily male pronouns, present mostly male, but I still consider myself trans because I don't "feel" male. Up until 2 years ago, I would have felt I still fit more as a "cis" male, feelings can change on this and neither way is wrong (which is kind of the whole point of not making cis an unsaid 'default').
There is no rule that states you have to identify as trans or cis ever, but for those that do it's an important distinction especially when talking about rights, laws, etc.
Generally yes but you're free to say I'm more gender fluid than cisgender
How is your example not an appropriate usage of the term, clearly if said man considers gender not one iota beyond what you laid out... that's textbook cisgender
i am furious i am being labeled cisgender. now it sits along side heterosexual, homo sapien, and other things that accurately describe my existence. furious i say.
What I'm having a hard time understanding is, as evidently since trans/queer folk are likely they ones introducing most cis people to the term, why would a cis person automatically assume that it is an insult? Is it just assumed that trans/queer folk are naturally inclined to be insulting toward others not like them? (If so, I'd say there's a healthy dose of projection there.)
Honestly before I knew what it meant I thought I was being insulted when I was called cis. Probably down to the way some people say it.
I hadn't quite thought of it like that, but you're right. And never having to deal with that sort of identity struggle is a privilege in itself.
Is it 2015 again? I thought this was a settled issue by now. No, cis people don't have a right to be protected from the term "cis."
No, that's my point... it's almost always because the cisgender person has said some bullshit and is being called on it. I was asking you to look into it.
Just how often do you hear cisgender used as a means of insult? I honestly have a hard time believing that the most significant context you've heard the word used is in a demeaning context...
and you both are wrong because that definition of cisgender is wrong.
You either align with the sex your were born into or you don't
this is not politics, it is geometry you either align or you will cross it one day, don't matter how little is the angle difference
If you're hetro, would you have a problem with someone refering to you as hetrosexual (If your sexuality is different, then whatever word fits)?
That's why I ended with "that doesn't mean I'm speaking for all instances where a cisgender person is simply being an insensitive piece of shit".
Right, but the point is your entire point surrounding that really doesn't have much weight behind it. The vast majority of the time opinions are dismissed is because of cis bullshit being called out. You can find people dismissing others opinions everywhere for all reasons, this is not some concern that really needs addressing in this situation.
Unless you can show me a significant amount of cis people being dismissed without any kind of bullslhit on their part?
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive Commentary Around Identity and Minority Issues
I don't like any label. I don't like being labelled an atheist, even though the concept of gods is purely ridiculous. I don't adhere to political parties or social norms. I have a name and I'm an individual.
Labels may signify a part of who we are, but they are not the makeup of our character or what makes us individuals. Belonging to groups separates us from the species that we are. Labels minimize our character into parts and tags. It separates us.
Labels may signify a part of who we are, but they are not the makeup of our character or what makes us individuals. Belonging to groups separates us from the species that we are. Labels minimize our character into parts and tags. It separates us.
I took Latin for years and I place the blame squarely at their feet.
While the whole arc of this comic is really well done, this is a good take on the difference between trans and cis gendered people.
In general cis people don't really give gender much thought besides what might be considered traditionally gendered clothing or activity... that's still a generalization of course, every single person is different, but I think that helps paint a bigger picture on why gender identity is so important to anyone who doesn't consider themselves cis.
Why do you consider cisgender to be a label, and not an academic term to describe someone who's gender and sex aligned?
What do you propose that trans people, a group frequently marginalized as "others" and "not the default", use in it's place?
Can't help but wonder how many of the cis folks in this describing the first time they "heard" the term and automatically assuming it was an insult because of "how it was said"...if this first encounter took place irl or on social media/forums?
Because if it's the latter, a lot of what people "hear" in something that is typed online isn't actually there and has more todo with what baggage the "listener" has brought to the discussion. In real life, as we all know, various cues such as tone of voice can help to clarify ambiguities which otherwise prevail online. (For instance, I have little doubt some here reading my posts are "hearing" them expressed in a very angry, aggressive tone, when in fact I could hardly be more calm.)
Because if it's the latter, a lot of what people "hear" in something that is typed online isn't actually there and has more todo with what baggage the "listener" has brought to the discussion. In real life, as we all know, various cues such as tone of voice can help to clarify ambiguities which otherwise prevail online. (For instance, I have little doubt some here reading my posts are "hearing" them expressed in a very angry, aggressive tone, when in fact I could hardly be more calm.)
Contextually because I first was exposed to it on Twitter from people that did not identify and trans, flinging it around as an insult in typical Twitter fashion.
As I said in my previous posts, I've reflected and learned since then, but that was the source of my originally reaction I had. I had no context for it and it was being used pejoratively. I went and googled it and read more about it to understand it wasn't later.
Frankly, I'm not as "online" as a lot of people and my family and friends I grew up with aren't very exposed either. Now that I live in a more progressive city and have friends that engage it, I get it more. But for many, they are in a bubble and don't even know it. Exposure is a really thing to help people change, but that can be hard for people on a number of levels.
How do we address everything in our lives with labels? That isn't the defining feature of who we are. Why are we minimizing anyone?
That sucks. I wish more attention was paid to pro-nouns when available.
You realize by calling for this you are asking to erase dentifies and their specific struggles, right?
No. Not at all. And honestly, I don't see "cis" being used much at all in non-progressive circles.
I would venture to guess a lot of people who are not progressive are mostly exposed to the phrase through retweets and insta stories from their friend/cousin/sibling/grandkid who is more progressive. I think that context is ripe for misunderstanding given the likely defensiveness of the receiver. That's not a you problem though. That's a them problem.
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