Honest question, because there's something I'm not getting - why does it go like this:
You're good and appreciated. Ftr, sounds like we came from the exact same culture of upbringing. Thank you for being open-minded and accepting.
Hrmm... would a proper, non-tone deaf response, if you wanted to answer the question, be to first acknowledge that you know it's not a big deal in the larger picture, but that you don't like how it sounds?
I tell take a crack after some self reflection.
I personally don't find it that big a deal, I put the tongue emote in my post for a reason. Other people will have different reactions to this, which are also valid, but to me I just found it amusing that the biggest struggle we were seeing ITT from cis folk regarding their gender identity was "the term is icky".
Well said.
This is honestly probably confirmation bias. It's used just as often in a neutral way.
You may not realise it but this argument is the same one used by "I don't see colour, we're all the same race" people.
That's really helpful - thank you both.
You're welcome, always happy to discuss these things with anyone asking genuinely.
The way I see it is that it's about the context of the conversation at hand. The labels have their place and are very useful in said conversations in the topics that require them or direct identifiers are useful. It's always been to my understanding as a cisgender person that just dropping the fact people are trans is a rude and disrespectful thing singling them out. I'm more than happy to be corrected on this though.
You're a head in the sand kind of guy, it sounds like. Which makes sense since you have cis white male privilege.
The discussion is more around the terms used in general ways. Not randomly singling out someone. Race and gender identity are both things we need to discuss as systemic issues and we cannot do that without "labels". Typically the people who object to them the most are part of the majority group or grew up with / around people with privilege and thus have a distorted view of reality, at least reality for the less privileged.
Hang out in less toxic spaces. I'm around trans folks all the time and don't hear it used in any kind of negative way that often. Vast majority of the time it's used in an appropriately neutral manner.
Do you... actually understand what TERF means? Because the idea that TERF and cisgender on the same level is really ridiculous. No one pretends that TERF is neutral. It's supposed to be an insult and was never intended to be neutral, unlike cis which just exists to be on the other side of the spectrum from trans.
I might be wrong, but I thought TERF started out as a factual description (radical feminism that excludes trans people), and got deployed often enough as an insult that it started the TERF IS A SLUR! nonsense as a backlash?
No... That's not why TERFs claim TERF is a slur. It's because they're TERFs. TERF is no more a slur than homophobe, racist etc. You see racists get similarly heated when accurately labelled racists.
I'm not denying the origin, but pushing back against the fact that it's generally a neutral description in intent or usage. Like... being trans exclusive is only neutral if you're a shitlord. That's why everyone else has primarily used it as a pejorative because it's fundamentally NOT neutral and it's absurd to act like it is. It's a shitty stance and people are treating it correctly as such.
I thought TERFs were explicitly anti-trans though? That's like a neo-Nazi being offended at being called anti-Semitic. Like yeah, anti-Semitism is obviously wrong, but why would you take offense at the term if that's literally what you believe? Bizarre.
Because they just want to be seen as "feminists". Even though their form of feminism is in fact exclusionary, and they often happily work with right wing misogynists because they share a common cause of transphobia.
Yeah same. If fact this is the only place I have read it or heard it outside of the odd youtube video (I am not active on twitter).
I am a product of my upbringing, yes.
It comes up when you're discussing differences between the trans and cis experience. Like when referencing how cis people don't need to jump through x, y or z hoops to get access to certain types of healthcare but trans people do. So on and so forth.
That is what I mean. That is something I discuss maybe once a month and I could see myself using it then.
Haven't come across that last paragraph personally but I'm not sure why (most) cis people would be talking about differences between cis and trans healthcare on the regular. For a lot of trans people it's a necessity and an issue that's directly relevant to our ability to live though.
I know those feels especially as I am a disabled person also. Worst part is I was recently informed any real attempt to transition will probably kill me due to my health condition, and no competent/medically sound surgeon will perform surgery on me, once again forcing me into a permanent closet and untenable status quo against my will.
I am a teacher of multiple trans students so these conversations come up regularly.
