Why do people hate vegans?

[Deleted member 426]

There is what?

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The proof that what riles people up about vegans as a whole, isn't a guilt complex, but a minority who very loudly judge non-vegans.

Remember this thread isn't about whether it's right or wrong to be non-vegan, but about why there is an anti-vegan sentiment. You've perfectly displayed why.

 

[astro]

I ever met a vegan who never tried giving me a sermon. I'm not trying to convert stomach faiths here. The belly wants what the belly wants.

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Yes you have, the fact is you have likely met many more who didn't ever mention they were vegan. I know I don't mention it to 90% of people I meet in a social setting as it simply never comes up.

 

[Akira86]

there are no vegans in foxholes.

 

[astro]

The proof that what riles people up about vegans as a whole, isn't a guilt complex, but a minority who very loudly judge non-vegans.

Remember this thread isn't about whether it's right or wrong to be non-vegan, but about why there is an anti-vegan sentiment. You've perfectly displayed why.

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I disagree, it's not just one thing at all, and the guilt is a factor for many people.

 

[Surfinn]

I never met a vegan who never tried giving me a sermon. I'm not trying to convert stomach faiths here. The belly wants what the belly wants.

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I'm confident you've met plenty of vegans who didn't give you a sermon, they just.. didn't give you a sermon.

I met someone at work months ago and just found out that she's vegan, only because someone else told me.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

To the people who say vegans are self righteous/preachy, how would you react if someone said they ate dog or horse meat? I guarantee you that many of the meat eaters in this thread would be on their soapbox instantly.

Everyone becomes preachy when it's something they care about.

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I would ask them how does it taste like and how do you cook it.

Maybe not dog meat but I'm definitely curious about horse meat

 

[Deleted member 2834]

The proof that what riles people up about vegans as a whole, isn't a guilt complex, but a minority who very loudly judge non-vegans.

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I think you misunderstand veganism. It's not merely a diet, although a plant-based died logically follows, but an ethical position that rejects the unnecessary exploitation and slaughter of animals if practical and possible. From their point of view, exploiting animals is unethical and you won't get them to budge on that matter. You can interpret that as "judgement" if you will. I would argue that people who disagree with some of your ethical positions probably feel judged by you as well, don't they? What did you do in those situations? Did you compromise on your position, you very firmly believe to be the more ethical one, and try to find some middle ground? Or did you stand your ground, risking to antagonize the person you talked to?

 

[TheGhost]

Yes you have, the fact is you have likely met many more who didn't ever mention they were vegan. I know I don't mention it to 90% of people I meet in a social setting as it simply never comes up.

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Then i never met a vocal vegan who didn't preach.

you don't eat meat? Cool
But i don't want to hear about why you don't eat meat, you don't need to justify it or explain it.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

People don't hate vegans, they hate preachy food people.

I hate people who insist bacon is the greatest foodstuff ever and must be in everything the same way I hate vegans who think their dite is the only one that should be catered to.

 

[Uncivilized Elk]

People don't hate vegans, they hate preachy food people.

I hate people who insist bacon is the greatest foodstuff ever and must be in everything the same way I hate vegans who think their dite is the only one that should be catered to.

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People definitely hate vegans beyond just hating preachy food people, and there's definitely more hate for them than for bacon-bros.

(For disclosure I'm not even vegetarian.)

 

[astro]

Then i never met a vocal vegan who didn't preach.

you don't eat meat? Cool
But i don't want to hear about why you don't eat meat, you don't need to justify it or explain it.

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That depends how the subject was broached. In my experience, it's usually the other person starting the debate as soon as they hear I'm vegan.

If you start it, it's entirely on you. I'm not going to sugar coat my opinion if you ask.

 

[Surfinn]

Thay depends how the subject was broached. In my experience, it's usually the other person starting the debate as soon as they hear I'm vegan.

If you start it, it's entirely on you. I'm not going to sugar coat my opinion if you ask.

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Funny thing is, and I say this with experience from being vegan.. the vast majority of the time, it's people shitting on veganism. I live in a liberal city and I've met ONE vegan who gets crazy preachy without the conversation naturally arising.

Also, yeah, if they started the convo, it's "well you asked" and they shouldn't need their hand held.

 

[Deleted member 426]

I think you misunderstand veganism. It's not merely a diet, although a plant-based died logically follows, but an ethical position that rejects the unnecessary exploitation and slaughter of animals if practical and possible. From their point of view, exploiting animals is unethical and you won't get them to budge on that matter. You can interpret that as "judgement" if you will. I would argue that people who disagree with some of your ethical positions probably feel judged by you as well, don't they? What did you do in those situations?

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Two points:

Firstly, people are also quite capable of making a personal ethical choice but also not judge others for taking a different position.

Secondly, if you do make an ethical choice and it affects how you see other people, that's within your right. Internal judgement isn't bothering anyone. Most people don't care about that, people don't have as big a guilt complex as some people here are claiming. The vast majority of people eat meat guilt free. What annoys people is when you outwardly judge people, when you call people out, for something they don't see as wrong.

 

[FF Seraphim]

I would ask them how does it taste like and how do you cook it.

Maybe not dog meat but I'm definitely curious about horse meat

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You ever ate gator? Very gummy meat since its mostly muscle.
As for the topic at hand, I think its the vocal minority that ruins it for the rest. Hell, I applaud people who can go vegan they have the will power to do it. I know I can't, plus it isn't financially possible to do where I live with my income.

 

[astro]

Two points:

Firstly, people are also quite capable of making a personal ethical choice but also not judge others for taking a different position.

Secondly, if you do make an ethical choice and it affects how you see other people, that's within your right. Internal judgement isn't bothering anyone. Most people don't care about that, people don't have as big a guilt complex as some people here are claiming. The vast majority of people eat meat guilt free. What annoys people is when you outwardly judge people, when you call people out, for something they don't see as wrong.

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You're not reading what Imp wrote.

They're saying the very core of being vegan is a position of passionate belief. The idea that they should stifle that passion during a debate is ridiculous, and honestly just shows how insecure some of you are about your own position.

I think eating meat is wrong. I think everyone should go vegan if they can. I think people who put their appetite and sensory experiences over the suffering of animals are doing something truly despicable.

I won't preach to you from nowhere, but if you broach the subject or the debate is staged I will tell you exactly what I believe.

If you can't handle hearing it, it's not my fault

 

[Scarlet Death]

I don't hate vegans. Just some of the commonly espoused philosophies people have behind being vegan. Many of them seem like narrow perspectives. For example, this idea that being vegan is somehow more ethical. When in reality, there is no ethical consumption in the situation we're currently in. As an american, I know most of my diet was produced exploiting someone, somewhere, or something. But I don't think that means one should stop being vegan. I just wish instead of optinng out of something that helps few, we could take more direct action agains those harmful practices in general.

I've eaten a number of vegan meals, and it's probably not something I would choose. But after going to a vegan thanksgiving, I was definitely convinced there were tasty alternatives to some of the food I'd normally eat. I hate seeing it be treated like a fad, or a hip lifestyle. What's the point of veganism if it isn't an accessible diet? It getting popular has made it less affordable, and that seems to defeat the purpose

 

[Dr. Lucien Sanchez]

Why wouldnt person A just stop after "I dont eat meat or dairy." Functionally will accomplish the same thing. Wont come across as judgemental to nearly as many people. Unless the function is just as much about communicating moral values as it is communicating food restrictions, in which case it's obvious why they are disliked, and would count as a form of preaching in my mind.

The insinuation that those who eat meat haven't thought about it is insulting, by the way.

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I've been a vegetarian for about 10 years and I can't tell you the number of times I'm asked 'why?' by friends, coworkers, dates, etc after ordering something or getting food or whatever. So when I communicate my (moral and ethical) reasons for not eating meat - because I've been god damned asked to - am I now being preachy and judgemental? What an absurd notion.

For every steretypical pushy vegan I have met, there have been like 10 obnoxious meat eaters bitching about vegans.

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i meet/see many, many, many more people complaining about the supposed 'holier than thou' vegan than i have any 'holier than thou' vegans.

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One could write the script for the way these threads will go.

Also see far more instances of aggressive meat eaters than I do of the fabled aggressive vegan on era.

 

[astro]

I don't hate vegans. Just some of the commonly espoused philosophies people have behind being vegan. Many of them seem like narrow perspectives. For example, this idea that being vegan is somehow more ethical. When in reality, there is no ethical consumption in the situation we're currently in. As an american, I know most of my diet was produced exploiting someone, somewhere, or something. But I don't think that means one should stop being vegan. I just wish instead of optinng out of something that helps few, we could take more direct action agains those harmful practices in general.

I've eaten a number of vegan meals, and it's probably not something I would choose. But after going to a vegan thanksgiving, I was definitely convinced there were tasty alternatives to some of the food I'd normally eat. I hate seeing it be treated like a fad, or a hip lifestyle. What's the point of veganism if it isn't an accessible diet? It getting popular has made it less affordable, and that seems to defeat the purpose

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This is non sequitur and a common one.

The idea of veganism is to reduce suffering as much as possible by terminating all links that directly tie to aninal suffering. Vegans understand the world is built on exploitation and you can't avoid it entirely, but being vegan is an ethical position and it is one that makes them more ethical than meat eaters when it comes to THIS specific situation.

Of course, being vegan doesn't mean you are ethical in other areas of your life, but the majority of vegans I know don't let their ethical activity end there (anecdotal, of course, but in my experience the specific compassion that it takes to be vegan applies to may other aspects of life too).

Also your second point couldn't be less true. Veganism is not only spreading it is becoming more and more affordable.

For a start, (access to vegetables, grains, pulses, etc... permitted) being vegan has always been very cheap if you cook yourself and the fallacy that it's expensive us another common falsehood spread by those who aren't vegan. The only expensive thing is buying certain branded vegan products which you do not need to buy.

Certain areas of the world make it harder to obtain basic food items, but if you have access to them there are enough cheap, tastey, nutritious, and quick and easy to prepare vegan meals that is smashes that myth entirely.

 

[Deleted member 2834]

Two points:

Firstly, people are also quite capable of making a personal ethical choice but also not judge others for taking a different position.

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Sure, but firstly I would ask why this is more desirable because, as far as I'm concerned, not bothering non-vegans with the ethical issues of factory farming leads to fewer annoyed people but possibly more killed animals, which is a net loss in my book.
Secondly, ethical disagreements are carried out in public all the time. I would think many resetters would probably voice their opinion loudly if someone at the dinner table were to express that child detention camps at the border are necessary. If that issue passes the threshold of being worthy to be addressed in a vocal manner, why doesn't the unnecessary exploitation of animals? Actually, if animal abuse threads (think of the Twitch streamer who mistreated her pets) on Era are anything to go by, people are quite emotionally invested in animal welfare. It easily passes that threshold.
Why stay silent on something you believe to be unethical? Resetera for the large part doesn't, not even when it comes to animal welfare as we see, and isn't that a good thing?

 

[Deleted member 426]

You're not reading what Imp wrote.

They're saying the very core of being vegan is a position of passionate belief. The idea that they should stifle that passion during a debate is ridiculous, and honestly just shows how insecure some of you are about your own position.

I think eating meat is wrong. I think everyone should go vegan if they can. I think people who put their appetite and sensory experiences over the suffering of animals are doing something truly despicable.

I won't preach to you from nowhere, but if you broach the subject or the debate is stages I will tell you exactly what I believe.

If you can't handle hearing it, it's not my fault

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I read exactly what Imp wrote, my points cover exactly what you're saying. You can feel something is wrong but a) that doesn't mean you have to think other people not doing the same thing is wrong b) even if you do you don't have to outwardly judge others. This is what almost everybody does every day with their own value judgements. It's nothing to do with being a vegan, it's about how much you can, or want to keep your beliefs to yourself.

And you shouldn't have to! Especially if you feel strongly about it.

But to most people, the ethics of eating meat just doesn't register. It's exactly the kind of thing that most people would keep to themselves if it was them. So when someone is evangelising and judging about something they dont give two hoots about, it's bound to annoy them.

And again guilt doesn't come into it. I'd posit that you project guilt on to others because that's what you think they should be feeling, because you can't understand how people can't feel guilt when it's something you feel so strongly about.

 

[texhnolyze]

I actually admire and respect them.

They won't be able to convince me, but they never annoy me at all.

 

[astro]

I read exactly what Imp wrote, my points cover exactly what you're saying. You can feel something is wrong but a) that doesn't mean you have to think other people not doing the same thing is wrong b) even if you do you don't have to outwardly judge others. This is what almost everybody does every day with their own value judgements. It's nothing to do with being a vegan, it's about how much you can, or want to keep your beliefs to yourself.

And you shouldn't have to! Especially if you feel strongly about it.

But to most people, the ethics of eating meat just doesn't register. It's exactly the kind of thing that most people would keep to themselves if it was them. So when someone is evangelising and judging about something they dont give two hoots about, it's bound to annoy them.

And again guilt doesn't come into it. I'd posit that you project guilt on to others because that's what you think they should be feeling, because you can't understand how people can't feel guilt when it's something you feel so strongly about.

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Then you didn't comprehend it because it literally does mean what you claim it doesn't.

I do think you're wrong for eating meat. If you ask me directly if I do I will tell you exactly why I believe that.

Also while I won't tell others they are wrong unless they ask or the debate goes there, I will raise awareness where I can.

You are asking people who believe something passionately - that the suffering of animals in the mest and dairy industries is brutal and needless - to shut up and sit down and keep it to themselves. You not being secure enough in your own opinion is the issue here, apparently.

Guilt is a factor absolutely. You might not feel guilty, but guilt is a very common human emotion and suggesting it would never factor in here, is quite frankly, completely absurd.

 

[Sunster]

and i would posit that people who say they don't feel guilt are people who definitely don't want to feel guilt and so resent having guilt brought into this discussion at all

 

[teacup]

Yeah hating on vegans is ridiculous and meme worthy at this point. There's just as many outraged meat eaters who hate vegans as "preachy vegans".

also with the uptick on vegan and vegetarian food being so popular it's made a lot of great new alternatives for people to have at restaurants, markets, or to cook with.

that said I think it's pretty offensive the try and suggest that vegans in western society suffer discrimination like an ethnic minority does. No one is being jailed for being vegan, being shot by cops, or losing a job over it (or not being hired).Unfortunately claims like that make it easy for the "vegan victim" stereotype to propagate.

 

[Boddy]

And again guilt doesn't come into it. I'd posit that you project guilt on to others because that's what you think they should be feeling, because you can't understand how people can't feel guilt when it's something you feel so strongly about.

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Guilt is a pretty big part of it, no matter how much you try to to deny it.
Most people agree that animla cruelty is wrong and that meat production is pretty messed up (although few who still eat meat know how bad it really is).
They just chose to not think about it.
When someone points that out to them (explicity or impliclity by being vegan) they feel attacked, but they can't also deny that these problems are real.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

You ever ate gator? Very gummy meat since its mostly muscle.
As for the topic at hand, I think its the vocal minority that ruins it for the rest. Hell, I applaud people who can go vegan they have the will power to do it. I know I can't, plus it isn't financially possible to do where I live with my income.

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Just the paw and it was a long time ago but I think I know what you mean.

 

[Deleted member 426]

Guilt is a pretty big part of it, no matter how much you try to to deny it.
Most people agree that animla cruelty is wrong and that meat production is pretty messed up (although few who still eat meat know how bad it really is).
They just chose to not think about it.
When someone points that out to them (explicity or impliclity by being vegan) they feel attacked, but they can't also deny that these problems are real.

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I used to sing in a choir back in the day and this is exactly what evangelist Christians say about atheists. They can't understand how other people can't feel wrong for not believing the same things as them, and they think the negative reactions they get are the result of a guilt complex. It's pure projection. The truth is people feel attacked when they are being attacked, regardless of whether the person attacking them is right or wrong. Ask people if meat production is wrong and sure, people will say absolutely yes. Ask meat eaters if eating meat is wrong, and the answer will be just as clear. Obviously generalisations notwithstanding.

 

[TheGhost]

That depends how the subject was broached. In my experience, it's usually the other person starting the debate as soon as they hear I'm vegan.

If you start it, it's entirely on you. I'm not going to sugar coat my opinion if you ask.

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I never start it because i don't really care if you eat meat or not, that has zero impact on my life.

i respect people's rights to eat what they want. Hell a majority of my diet is buying over priced food from a health and wellness store due to dietary restrictions . But I eat bloody red steaks on the regular.

My problem is when I'm eating and someone decides to idk? I interpret it as guilt tripping me? Or they make a comment? Two things go through my mind.

"the nerve of this person to interrupt my meal"

And

"do i ignore this person or do i engage"

 

[astro]

I never start it because i don't really care if you eat meat or not, that has zero impact on my life.

i respect people's rights to eat what they want. Hell a majority of my diet is buying over priced food from a health and wellness store due to dietary restrictions . But I eat bloody red steaks on the regular.

My problem is when I'm eating and someone decides to idk? I interpret it as guilt tripping me? Or they make a comment? Two things go through my mind.

"the nerve of this person to interrupt my meal"

And

"do i ignore this person or do i engage"

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And if that is happening to you so often that it's impacting your life, I would say you have been incredibly unlucky to run into so many people like that.

 

[Deleted member 426]

Sure, but firstly I would ask why this is more desirable because, as far as I'm concerned, not bothering non-vegans with the ethical issues of factory farming leads to fewer annoyed people but possibly more killed animals, which is a net loss in my book.
Secondly, ethical disagreements are carried out in public all the time. I would think many resetters would probably voice their opinion loudly if someone at the dinner table were to express that child detention camps at the border are necessary. If that issue passes the threshold of being worthy to be addressed in a vocal manner, why doesn't the unnecessary exploitation of animals? Actually, if animal abuse threads (think of the Twitch streamer who mistreated her pets) on Era are anything to go by, people are quite emotionally invested in animal welfare. It easily passes that threshold.
Why stay silent on something you believe to be unethical? Resetera for the large part doesn't, not even when it comes to animal welfare as we see, and isn't that a good thing?

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Oh I forgot to reply to this. Yes absolutely you shouldn't be expected to keep quiet on something you feel strongly about. I hope what I've said so far hasn't given the impression that I think your views SHOULD be kept to yourself. I was just saying why it riles people up. And let's be honest, riling people up isn't the worst think in the world if you're arguing for something you think it important.

 

[astro]

Oh I forgot to reply to this. Yes absolutely you shouldn't be expected to keep quiet on something you feel strongly about. I hope what I've said so far hasn't given the impression that I think your views SHOULD be kept to yourself. I was just saying why it riles people up. And let's be honest, riling people up isn't the worst think in the world if you're arguing for something you think it important.

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That is exactly how you have come across ITT.

 

[Deleted member 426]

That is exactly how you have come across ITT.

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Well it shouldn't do, because I haven't said anything of the sort.

 

[astro]

Well it shouldn't do, because I haven't said anything of the sort.

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You have, a few times, and some of us have directly quoted those comments and reasoned against them.

 

[boontobias]

It's the same mentality that made people hate Twilight. Somehow veganism became an attack on masculine identity

I've never met a preachy vegan in my life, and I've dated 2 vegans

 

[Surfinn]

I actually admire and respect them.

They won't be able to convince me, but they never annoy me at all.

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The vast majority of vegans don't try to "convince" anyone to do anything. They're living their lives, just like anybody else.

 

[Deleted member 426]

You have, a few times, and some of us have directly quoted those comments and reasoned against them.

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I have literally never said vegans should keep quiet about their beliefs.

 

[astro]

I have literally never said vegans should keep quiet about their beliefs.

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You have suggested that every thing numerous times.

 

[Deleted member 426]

You have suggested that every thing numerous times.

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No I have not, and I don't believe that at all. Quote me please.

 

[astro]

No I have not, and I don't believe that at all. Quote me please.

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Myself and Imp already have, a few times now. Our replies have been written to directly countered this assertion that you have made.

I shouldn't be required to rewrite points we have already been written for you.

 

[Deleted member 426]

Q

Myself and Imp already have, a few times now. Our replies have been written to directly countered this assertion that you have made.

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I'm not being funny but you're clearly being evasive here because you know you've been caught out. I've never said vegans should keep quiet about their beliefs. You probably know this already from going back over my comments. I can see from the above you tried to quote something but probably realised I hadn't said what you thought I had. If you're going to argue, at least do it in good faith.

 

[Boddy]

I used to sing in a choir back in the day and this is exactly what evangelist Christians say about atheists. They can't understand how other people can't feel wrong for not believing the same things as them, and they think the negative reactions they get are the result of a guilt complex. It's pure projection. The truth is people feel attacked when they are being attacked, regardless of whether the person attacking them is right or wrong. Ask people if meat production is wrong and sure, people will say absolutely yes. Ask meat eaters if eating meat is wrong, and the answer will be just as clear. Obviously generalisations notwithstanding.

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That sure sounds a lot like cognitive dissonance, it's almost as they feel bad about something.

 

[Scarlet Death]

quote

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Well I'm glad I'm wrong then. I'm mostly informed by anecdotal evidence of people who I've seen react to being told it doesn't make you ethical, and low-income friends complaining about prices.

I'd complain about prices too, seeing how much more expensive it is at the grocery store. And I suppose everyone's perspective on ethics through the scope of veganism is going to be different for everyone.

 

[TheGhost]

And if that is happening to you so often that it's impacting your life, I would say you have been incredibly unlucky to run into so many people like that.

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Jerks have an impact, most people mind their business.

so to answer the thread title, i don't hate vegans i just hate jerks.

 

[astro]

I'm not being funny but you're clearly being evasive here because you know you've been caught out. I've never said vegans should keep quiet about their beliefs. You probably know this already from going back over my comments. I can see from the above you tried to quote something but probably realised I hadn't said what you thought I had. If you're going to argue, at least do it in good faith.

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I'm not being evasive. One of my previus posts directly broaches this subject.

 

[Deleted member 426]

That sure sounds a lot like cognitive dissonance, it's almost as they feel bad about something.

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Definite cognitive dissonance. I don't disagree there. Okay so if we're moving in to the realm of guilt that people have surpressed so much they don't even realise it, then yes people could be feeling guilty, fair enough. But then that doesn't mean that's the reason people hate being preached to. My example shows that people hate it whether or not they feel guilty about it.

I'm not being evasive. One of my previus posts directly broaches this subject.

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Yes exactly, but in response to a post by me where I didn't at all say vegans should keep quiet about their beliefs.

 

[Biggersmaller]

I'm confident the vast majority of vegans are socially well adjusted, normally pleasant people. However, of the vegans I know IRL - granted it's only three people - they are annoyingly evangelical about their diet:

One of them is a colleague losing weight. I hear about the health benefits on a near daily basis. It's like South Beach and Atkins all over again.

The other two are friends doing it for moral reasons and their emotionally charged position leave no room for someone like me take a middle position of simply eating less meat. No. Animal life is equal to human life. Therefore, it's either you join their crusade vocally condemning honey-based lip balm at the drop of a hat OR you are animal Hitler for owning a wool jacket.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

What should the punishment be, for eating meat?

Vegans believe its unethical, evil, and immoral, to eat meat. Hypothetically, in a future where laws have been adopted to reflect your vegan values, what should the punishment be for someone who kills and eats an animal on their property?

Apparently this is trolling, though i dont understand how, as long term consequences of society adopting new ethical views directly relates to the question asked in the OP, but please dont respond to me, the troll. Who would like his account deleted please. Bye Era I love you!

 

[Surfinn]

What should the punishment be, for eating meat?

Vegans believe its unethical, evil, and immoral, to eat meat. Hypothetically, in a future where laws have been adopted to reflect your vegan values, what should the punishment be for someone who kills and eats an animal on their property?

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Wat

 

[Deleted member 15737]

Wat

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What can I clarify?

 

[Boddy]

Definite cognitive dissonance. I don't disagree there. Okay so if we're moving in to the realm of guilt that people have surpressed so much they don't even realise it, then yes people could be feeling guilty, fair enough. But then that doesn't mean that's the reason people hate being preached to. My example shows that people hate it whether or not they feel guilty about it.

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You keep focusing on preaching vegans and ignore that even the non-preachy ones get a lot of shit (which btw very often also don't like the former group all that much for giving them a bad rep).