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srylain

Member
Jun 15, 2018
401
With the huge shift away from peripheral-based games, I don't see GH/RB ever getting anywhere close to what they were during their heyday. It'd be great to see, but so many factors work heavily against everything. VR games that don't require a specific controller are pretty neat, but any player who wants something that would actually challenge them won't get that challenge from a VR game as it'll generally be slower and notecharts would never be as dense (just talking about GH/RB like games here, not others like Beat Saber).

Even with 3D printing getting much more commonplace nowadays you'd still need to get all the components and wires to build a working controller, and while those component kits wouldn't take anywhere near the same space on a retail shelf they'd still require enough knowledge on how to put it together to the point where most wouldn't want to bother. And that's not even mentioning the quality of the printed material since it likely wouldn't hold up to too much beating over time unless you sprung for higher quality filaments. Even with the official Guitar Hero Live guitars, we've seen just how low quality an official release could be with damn near every single guitar having some sort of issue (the first one I bought came with a broken dongle, the other two I'd owned over time ended up with squeaky/sticky frets after a week).

There are still a small handful of companies out there selling 'new' guitars (far as anyone can tell they're new) though, like GameBuddies on Amazon but most would suggest modding those anyways to make them more functional (stuff like replacing the silicone pads in the frets).

And that's just a bit of talking about the current controller situation, then there's the humongous hurdles that music licensing brings, but nowadays with so many smaller groups/bands on the internet it's not that hard to find people willing to give their material for cheap or free if it brings them the exposure they need to even get noticed. I still can't get past how we managed to get Dragonforce for Clone Hero, that was them coming to us since they wanted to give back to the community after the many years of their label nuking every video that used their music.

Going forward into the future and making the games more about streaming, there's quite a few interesting things that we've thought of on where we can go with that. Twitch Sings was neat and short lived and all, but imagine something like that in VR where you could be standing in a virtual concert and watching your favorite streamer going at it on stage. At this point it really seems like some sort of big shakeup like that is what's needed to even have a chance to be noticed anymore on a large scale. If it wasn't for streamers, Clone Hero wouldn't really have ever been known.
 

Akiba756

Member
Oct 1, 2020
1,126
Sao Paolo, Brazil
When guitar hero started, you could play with the joypad, the toy guitar was optional, they only made it mandatory in later games
I always found weird how Activision still insisted on not letting you play with the controllers for the revival attempt
 

NameUser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,011
Don't know, but GH: Live is low-key the best game in the series. The new controls actually made the game more engaging and I loved GHTV.
 

Amalthea

Member
Dec 22, 2017
5,682
Remember those huge-ass boxes that contained controllers for every instrument in a band? This was just wasteful and ridiculous.
 

KAMI-SAMA

Banned
Aug 25, 2020
5,496
It probably had to do with the oversaturation and declining sales(partly due to the oversaturation and burnout of the market). It's funny, I clearly remember how there was nonstop releases of the games coming out that made me go "Another one? Jeez they are milking it." But I don't even remember the day they stopped making them. The genre just died out suddenly to me.
 

srylain

Member
Jun 15, 2018
401
When guitar hero started, you could play with the joypad, the toy guitar was optional, they only made it mandatory in later games
I always found weird how Activision still insisted on not letting you play with the controllers for the revival attempt

Most of that was to make it much easier to just plug a controller in and have it just work, while also not allowing something stupid like letting a Drumset play as a Guitar. The debug modes in the games do still allow for a standard controller to play, but obviously it's also more money towards the publisher if you also had to buy a peripheral to play.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,589
I always hated Rock band and Guitar Hero...watching my friends so happy together in their fake band and they wouldn't invite me to play ever, even though I was there watching them and they sucked.

you're not a real rockband, dammit why can't I play
 

srylain

Member
Jun 15, 2018
401
Don't know, but GH: Live is low-key the best game in the series. The new controls actually made the game more engaging and I loved GHTV.

If the guitars were manufactured with higher quality and the game's services worked better, it would be seen in much higher regards. The game as a whole was a pretty good shake-up and worked really well with the new guitar, but the other stuff like the multiplayer being extremely unbalanced or not even supporting invites or more than 2 players, along with all the crashes, really soured a lot of people. I think at launch you couldn't even see other peoples' live scores in GHTV.

Then you also had micro-transactions thrown in the mix, and while they weren't intrusive at all people being people thought they were. Sure you could buy a 24 hour pass to play any song you want on demand, but you could also just play casually for an hour and be able to play ~10 songs on demand for free.
 

Iucidium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,045
Was it oversaturtion of the games? They released alot i believe in the years they wereout
Publishers saw now future in it or didnt know at to sustain it?
Legal reasons with licencing?

Can they come back? The time is different now. Games are more service based and maybe a model is better suited for it?
Activision killed their own brand then did it again with GH:Live. Rock Band had some real bad luck with Madcatz and PDP - there is a decent following but it's gonna be too expensive/risky to mass produce. Ideal situation (imo) would be a Kickstarter for "one kit to rule them all" one set of instruments, compatible with Xbox/PlayStation - freeing a lot more cash for dlc purchases instead of paying scalpers.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,430
The games were great especially when played with friends but as is the case with such things the novelty and joy wears thin over time and people inevitably move on. Also, there was a whole lot of plastic you had to store somewhere.
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Minneapolis
Of course the simple and most correct answer is that it was a pop culture fad. Guitar Hero was a fixture at every party in my mid-20s and we only learned to play so we could drunkenly beat one another in-front of a small crowd. Then suddenly everyone stopped caring.

That said, nostalgia dictates there will be a stand-alone device with a holiday release one day, mark my words.
 
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Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,272
People only want to buy so much plastic crap year after year after year. Eventually everything runs its course anyways. But when you are required to constantly buy new plastic crap to do it, its a higher hurdle of "do we really want this"
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,838
Yes, the novelty wore off over time - and that was inevitable to some degree - but I 100% believe that over saturation is what killed it. The genre could have smoothly transitioned into becoming somewhat niche with properly spaced, quality releases, but instead Activision milked it to death in 2007-2009 with a lot of junk.

The genre went from peak popularity to falling off a cliff in a span of 3 years. They overheated and overwhelmed the market.
 

LuigiMario

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,937
Activision killed their own brand then did it again with GH:Live. Rock Band had some real bad luck with Madcatz and PDP - there is a decent following but it's gonna be too expensive/risky to mass produce. Ideal situation (imo) would be a Kickstarter for "one kit to rule them all" one set of instruments, compatible with Xbox/PlayStation - freeing a lot more cash for dlc purchases instead of paying scalpers.

Yep agreed. That way you don't have a situation where retailers want to back up and PDP can be confident their orders are filled. Harmonix could even probably charge a little more since it's specialty run and make the improvements fans have been asking for too.
 

Archduke Kong

Member
Feb 2, 2019
2,311
Personally, I also think it just released at the right time. Guitar Hero and Rock Band came out right when traditional rock music was still kind of popular. The concept of the "guitar god" that the games are trying to help you emulate isn't much of a thing anymore. Oversaturation definitely contributed the most, but I can't help but noticed that as Guitar Hero fizzled out, rock music was becoming a lot less guitar focused (key word being focused). Plus most people who were really into these games went on to learn the actual instruments (a great thing, but not for the companies who make the games).
 

Praxis

Sausage Tycoon
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,241
UK
Clone Hero and the vast library has replaced it for me, I just wish I could easily buy peripherals and they weren't all in a landfill
 

Deleted member 91227

Feb 4, 2021
5,002
I think a lot of people were like me and probably just eventually got bored of playing along to songs with plastic controllers and fell off the games and stopped buying sequels and/or DLC at some point and eventually sold or donated the controllers.

I'm a lot more resistant to having peripheral clutter around now that I'm a home owner and care more about aesthetics and keeping things neat. My office/game room has a tiny closet (first floor in general lacks storage space) so options are limited for keeping things like guitars, much less drums, put away out of sight. Ended up selling off my PSVR and racing wheel/pedal/stand party for that reason as well. Just didn't use them enough, or enjoy them enough, to have them out and cluttering up the room or eating up storage space in upstairs closets.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
A mix of oversaturation of market and also the economic issues after 2008 made buying expensive plastic toys non-viable. This combination killed this take on the music/rythm genre.

At least Rock Band 4 is still alive. If you still have or can find the plastic toys, that is.

I play RB4 every once in a while, but Guitar Hero and Rock Band for PS3 at least once a week with the Drums
 

mantis23

Member
Oct 27, 2017
350
I really miss playing Rock Band. Last year I ended up selling off all of my Rock Band stuff (Drums, Guitars, Cymbals, Legacy Adapter, etc) and got nearly 2 grand for everything. I've been looking to find a cheap set every since but no luck. Maybe this summer people will start having garage sales again and I'll get lucky.
 

Sabercrusader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,196
A few reasons like most have stated.

Oversaturation. They took the idea and drove it into the ground so quickly with so many sequels it was insane.

The plastic instruments were expensive to make, and took up a lot of space. Lots of people eventually just got rid of them. Plus compatibility across generations was an issue.

The games were also largely social interactions as well. Sure you could play it by yourself, but that kinda lost it's allure. You kinda needed to play with friends to really keep it going.

I get the feeling they might do better now in a world that is beginning to start to open back up from a pandemic and people are desperate for social interaction, but no idea if that success would actually continue as we would get farther and farther away from the pandemic.
 

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,356
People only want to buy so much plastic crap year after year after year. Eventually everything runs its course anyways. But when you are required to constantly buy new plastic crap to do it, its a higher hurdle of "do we really want this"
The only reason one would be buying "new plastic crap" is if their old stuff broke. Basically from like 2007 on the instruments were cross-compatible with each series. Even now you can used a PS3 GH3 controller to play RB4 on PS5 if you want.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,006
The only reason one would be buying "new plastic crap" is if their old stuff broke. Basically from like 2007 on the instruments were cross-compatible with each series. Even now you can used a PS3 GH3 controller to play RB4 on PS5 if you want.

There's apparently a huge issue where 360 instruments don't work with the XBO without a fairly costly adapter, meaning Xbox owners had to buy all new instruments or hunt down said adapter.

Not an issue with PS3/4.
 

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,356
There's apparently a huge issue where 360 instruments don't work with the XBO without a fairly costly adapter, meaning Xbox owners had to buy all new instruments or hunt down said adapter.

Not an issue with PS3/4.
Ya, that's an issue now, but it wasn't an issue during the big initial craze. You could have bought a RB1 or GHWT band kit in 07/08 and coasted on it through both series all the way through their final 7th gen entries. Even when RB3 introduced keyboards you could still just use a guitar controller to play those parts.
 

Jave

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,824
Chile
In addition to game saturation, I guess people got tired of buying so many peripherals, some of which weren't even compatible between different consoles.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,106
I recall the previous gen bundle being incredibly expensive. I regret not buying one when they were on a cleareance sale though since I never thought that they would become so rare
 

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,611
I don't know, but I know that if a new Rock Band came out for the new consoles, I would snap it up in an instant.
 

Zexen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
522
Personally, what made me quit was that I grow bored of plastic instruments and switched to Rocksmith, so I'm actually thankful to these games to make me want to learn to play guitar.
 

Tanston

Member
Nov 29, 2017
336
After losing all the Beatles tracks I bought for rockband Beatles with no way to redownload them after my console died I won't jump back into this genre even if it comes back. Burn me once and I vote with my wallet.
 

Schlep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,772
It sucks that any future band-centric games died after The Beatles Rock Band underperformed.

I believe Harmonix revealed they were working on doing Pink Floyd and Zeppelin as well. :(
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/130-million-rock-band-songs-downloaded/1100-6405830/?sid=6405830

The Beatles was such a niche group to pick for that game. I get it that they're one of the all time greats, they could make it more stylized, and all of that. But the average gamer was born at least a decade after they released their last album. It was just such a weird pick at the time.
 

xinoart

Member
Oct 27, 2017
506
I guess I was lucky and I was a PS person, not a Xbox guy. All my peripherals work across all the gens, no stupid adapters or having to lose stuff. My DLC transitions went very smoothly as well. I have nothing but praise on the PS side, but I do know Xbox is where most of these problems come from.

Also you can clearly tell who hasn't played any of these games since the first gen they released when they spout nonsense like"Rock is dead" or "Rock has faded into the background!" I mean, Lady Gaga, Snoop Dogg, and Billie Eilish aren't what anyone would call rock.
 

SFenton

Member
Nov 10, 2017
633
After losing all the Beatles tracks I bought for rockband Beatles with no way to redownload them after my console died I won't jump back into this genre even if it comes back. Burn me once and I vote with my wallet.

You can download them again in the same console family. Delisted content is only unavailable for people who hadn't purchased it.
 

Stone Dudeman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
693
I just wish someone still made compatible instruments. I'd love to get back into RB but right now the only option is to pay a lot for used instruments that have who knows how much life left.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
The issue is the instruments took up so much room and so many games that being said I wish I could find some xbox one/series x rock band instruments or the legacy adapter for cheap because they are none existant and way to expensive.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,006
The Beatles was such a niche group to pick for that game. I get it that they're one of the all time greats, they could make it more stylized, and all of that. But the average gamer was born at least a decade after they released their last album. It was just such a weird pick at the time.

Have to agree here. The Beatles are an EXTREMELY popular group- among a demographic that would never play a PS3 or Xbox game. Those I know of my generation (40ish) who were really into rock "respect" the group but are hardly what you would call superfans.

I own the Beatles Rock Band (mostly because the instruments that it came with were better than my RB2 gear) but have never actually played the game. No appeal.

It is VERY difficult to think of a band that really justifies building an entire game around them. Metallica is about the only one I think could have gotten away with it, but I think that game needed to have more tracks in it than it did- or at least an option to download more DLC.

Honestly a "decades" based game would have been a better idea- "Guitar Hero Rocks the 80s" (remember that one?) had the right idea, but was so bare bones it didn't stick the landing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
I think the game never left or died, but it did fall from the spotlight and the mainstream. There's a community still strong with Clone Hero and Rock Band 4. I still play Rock Band 4 regularly and the Rivals mode is a blast! Having weekly DLC is great, as it gives something to look forward to. There's even some gems released in the past 1-2 years: Angel of Death by Slayer & Superman by Goldfinger being some of my highlights.

They put Angel of Death out for Rock Band? How would those poor plastic drums even survive someone trying to play Lombardo's beats?? That guy beats the shit out of his drums.

I always hated Rock band and Guitar Hero...watching my friends so happy together in their fake band and they wouldn't invite me to play ever, even though I was there watching them and they sucked.

you're not a real rockband, dammit why can't I play

You should have thrown fake beer at the fake band.
 
Feb 26, 2021
234
Ya, that's an issue now, but it wasn't an issue during the big initial craze. You could have bought a RB1 or GHWT band kit in 07/08 and coasted on it through both series all the way through their final 7th gen entries. Even when RB3 introduced keyboards you could still just use a guitar controller to play those parts.

Back then Rock Band accepted anything but GH was a lot more picky on what it would support.

Also you can clearly tell who hasn't played any of these games since the first gen they released when they spout nonsense like"Rock is dead" or "Rock has faded into the background!" I mean, Lady Gaga, Snoop Dogg, and Billie Eilish aren't what anyone would call rock.

Idk what youre trying to argue here? Rock isnt as popular as it used to be. Hip Hop is what all the kids and younger adults listen to.

Then you list 3 artist who aren't even know for Rock as proof of what?

Most people if they've heard of Lady Gaga at all are of the older crowd and probably only know her for Poker Face.
Snoop is known for his 90's Hip Hop. He is an Icon but its not like he is putting out music most are looking out for.
Billie tbh i only know the bad guy song, so you can have that one.
 

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,356
Idk what youre trying to argue here? Rock isnt as popular as it used to be. Hip Hop is what all the kids and younger adults listen to.

Then you list 3 artist who aren't even know for Rock as proof of what?

Most people if they've heard of Lady Gaga at all are of the older crowd and probably only know her for Poker Face.
Snoop is known for his 90's Hip Hop. He is an Icon but its not like he is putting out music most are looking out for.
Billie tbh i only know the bad guy song, so you can have that one.
I think they're trying to make a point about how current DLC for RB4 trends a lot closer to Top 40 radio than it did back in the original run of the games. All three of the artists they mentioned have songs available for purchase, with Billie Eilish having been in last week's dlc drop.
 

xinoart

Member
Oct 27, 2017
506
Back then Rock Band accepted anything but GH was a lot more picky on what it would support.



Idk what youre trying to argue here? Rock isnt as popular as it used to be. Hip Hop is what all the kids and younger adults listen to.

Then you list 3 artist who aren't even know for Rock as proof of what?

Most people if they've heard of Lady Gaga at all are of the older crowd and probably only know her for Poker Face.
Snoop is known for his 90's Hip Hop. He is an Icon but its not like he is putting out music most are looking out for.
Billie tbh i only know the bad guy song, so you can have that one.

My point was that people have said this failed because "Rock" music has faded from the airwaves or whatever, when it's not the case at all. There are a ton of Country songs for the game, Tejano/Spanish music, Dance music, Pop, Rap, ETC. If you don't believe go read the last 4 pages. There are several posters who claimed it was because it was geared towards rock, which yes it had to be called something to start with but the genres it envelopes now are far from what most would all call "Rock", as would anyone else who actually plays the game or at least keeps up with it would say. Those people were just talking nonsense and either 1. Haven't played the game in literal years or 2. Just wanted to dogpile on a game genre they had no real interest in the first place and just wanted to spout a wrong opinion.

I think they're trying to make a point about how current DLC for RB4 trends a lot closer to Top 40 radio than it did back in the original run of the games. All three of the artists they mentioned have songs available for purchase, with Billie Eilish having been in last week's dlc drop.


Exactly. I don't see how it was so hard to figure that out. I was pointing out that claiming that it was because it was "all rock music" was wrong on pretty much every level possible. Hell the base games always had something that wasn't rock included in it.
 

not_smiff

Member
Oct 31, 2017
958
I really regret not buying the Rockband 4 boxset when they were out at MRSP. I have guitars but I tossed my Rb1 drums. Would love for some new sets to come out.
 

Scruffy8642

Member
Jan 24, 2020
2,849
Over saturation, game prices going up so people not willing to spend 60$ on every new set of songs, making it too complicated with too many instruments which increased the cost of entry and divided the player base, requiring different peripherals and games for each console, ect ect.

I remember when RB4 came out, there was this huge thing about it being the most expensive game to get all the achievements on ever, because you needed like 5 plastic instruments.

The main reason people still play rhythm games is for the mods nowadays anyway. New anime song comes out? Someone's made a song out of it within days. I think if they wanted to come back, they'd need to come with song creators and user-generated content ala Beat Saber, as well as cross-platform play and universal peripheral functionality. Even then though, the fan bases have already created their own ways to do this, and official versions would probably have too many hoops to jump through, so they wouldn't be as good. Think they've missed the boat tbh.