OP
OP
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Why did Marty McFly’s hand start disappearing?
- Thread starter darz1
- Start date
He obviously does. In Part 2, he tells Old Biff that George McFly was never a loser. He obviously was in the original timeline and I'm sure the original Marty would agree. He also can't stand for anyone to call him chicken. That's a trait he never had in the first movie. Marty's memories were rewritten overnight while he was asleep with memories of the new timeline, so the original Marty from Back to the Future 1 technically no longer exists.
Back To The Future Pitch Meeting
Step inside the pitch meeting that led to Back to the Future!Subscribe for more Pitch Meetings: http://goo.gl/ho3Hg6Back to the Future, starring Michael J. F...
youtu.be
There's a deleted scene from BTTF 2 showing old Biff disappearing from existence, it's why he was acting so hurt when he stumbled out of the Delorean. Which means his change must have made him die at an earlier age. In the BTTF reality, there's only one timeline, after changes happen time seems to take a while to fix itself, with changes moving forward through time (so Marty's older siblings disappeared first, in birth order). In theory, if Marty and Doc had stuck around in 2015 for too long, they would have seen the changes occur there too, but they headed back almost immediately after Biff returned.
The movie just kinda glosses over the fact that time traveler memories aren't changed along with the changes to the timeline. Luckily, apparently Marty from the remade 1985 still had the same girlfriend (though her entire appearance changed shortly after he arrived back in 1985), and the same plan to go to the lake, though that Marty had told his parents about the plans (and somehow acquired the truck).
The movie just kinda glosses over the fact that time traveler memories aren't changed along with the changes to the timeline. Luckily, apparently Marty from the remade 1985 still had the same girlfriend (though her entire appearance changed shortly after he arrived back in 1985), and the same plan to go to the lake, though that Marty had told his parents about the plans (and somehow acquired the truck).
Time travel narrative - Easy mode.
Dark from Netflix is like "Time travel narrative - EUROPEAN EXTREME".
Back To The Future Pitch Meeting
Step inside the pitch meeting that led to Back to the Future!Subscribe for more Pitch Meetings: http://goo.gl/ho3Hg6Back to the Future, starring Michael J. F...
as an aside, I cant fucking stand the thumbnails for these videos. I enjoy their vids but goddamn are the thumbnails obnoxious.
It wasn't until the lockdown that critics around the world took notice of this glaring flaw. We now know that hands do not in fact disappear when you stay at home and jack it all day every day.
The biggest plot hole that I've never been able to reconcile is how did old biff return to the 2015 that he left from after giving his younger self the almanac?
Doc even says to marty that if they left 1985A and went to 2015, it would be the 2015 based off of the events of 1985A.
So presumably when Old biff left 1955, he would have travelled to the 2015 based off of 1955A --> 1985A --> 2015A.
I've seen the deleted scene of biff disappearing when he returns, but that still doesn't explain how he returns to the "prime" 2015 in the first place.
The ONLY thing I can think of is that he is able to return to Prime 2015 because Doc and Marty are ultimately successful in restoring the timeline to the way it was supposed to play out -- i.e. the events of BTTF2 had already occurred as we eventually see them play out so therefore Old Biff was never successful and its not just covering up a huge plot hole of "how would marty and doc get back to their own time".
Doc even says to marty that if they left 1985A and went to 2015, it would be the 2015 based off of the events of 1985A.
So presumably when Old biff left 1955, he would have travelled to the 2015 based off of 1955A --> 1985A --> 2015A.
I've seen the deleted scene of biff disappearing when he returns, but that still doesn't explain how he returns to the "prime" 2015 in the first place.
The ONLY thing I can think of is that he is able to return to Prime 2015 because Doc and Marty are ultimately successful in restoring the timeline to the way it was supposed to play out -- i.e. the events of BTTF2 had already occurred as we eventually see them play out so therefore Old Biff was never successful and its not just covering up a huge plot hole of "how would marty and doc get back to their own time".
Well we also know time takes a bit to correct, as evident of the fact that Marty and his siblings take a bit to disappear, also Biff leaves that 1985 right after he gives young biff the almanac, so nothing major had really changed when he left and traveling through time is instant for the time traveler, so basically Biff beat the time ripple. But your theory works too
It's just the movie/show art but they edit the eyes to be anime size. It's neither creative nor obnoxious.
Happened to me. Both hands. Have started trying to use my feet but worried they'll go next.
You're a whacker! You remind me a lot of your old man, McSage, he was a whacker, too!
wow, this is exactly why I'v never clicked any of those videos... turns out just watched this one, it's pretty good. Guess I should check the rest.
The multiverse example presented by Doc in BTTF2 is just a visual aid. BTTF has just one timeline.
In BTTF1, when Marty pushes George out of the way of the car, that prevents George and Lorraine from hooking up, which prevents Marty's family from existing. Which should create a time paradox and potentially destroy the universe (because, if Marty doesn't exist, then Marty can't prevent George and Lorraine from hooking up, which means that Marty does exist, which makes Marty not exist, until... forever).
But the timeline change in BTTF1 was not immediate. When Marty pulls his family photo out of his wallet to show Doc, Doc immediately rejects it as a cheap photoshop, because Marty cut the top of his brother's head off. This was not proof of a cheap photoshop though, it was visual evidence of the timeline erasing Marty's family, starting with his oldest brother (and starting with his head, because the timeline felt like starting there). Which means, no multiverse. Marty's picture was not a picture from another timeline, it was a picture from the future, and the future was in the (days long) process of being rewritten.
The timeline took it's sweet time (several days) in slowly erasing Marty and his family from existence, which allowed Marty just barely enough time to guide George and Lorraine back together, at which point the timeline rapidly restored Marty and his family (while upgrading Marty's family to their new happy ending, due to George standing up to Biff). After some timeline adjustments (like the Lone Pine Mall), Marty is no longer a paradox, he's a stable time loop. Marty was now always meant to go back in time and help his parents. This is established. This is the new history.
In BTTF2, after Doc and Marty have their fun trying to help Marty's kids in the future, Old Biff steals the time machine and goes back to 1955 and gives Young Biff the Sports Almanac. This sets a series of events in motion which creates the dark 1985, where 1985-Lorraine shoots 1985-Biff in the heart after learning that he murdered George (sometime after Marty was born). But Old Biff brings the time machine back to the future without seeing the warning signs of a changed future and does nothing to prevent his own paradox, so he immediately starts dying from having his heart erased from existence.
As the future universe begins to silently unravel around them, Doc and Marty obliviously hop into the returned time machine and return to 1985, only to discover that it's the dark 1985. Marty suggests going back to the future, to stop Biff from stealing the time machine, but there is no future to return to, as the universe will likely implode as soon as Lorraine shoots Biff. Also, Biff stealing the time machine has already happened, and it must always happen, because Old Biff changed 1955 with his actions, and without those actions Doc and Marty have no impetus to correct those actions (if there's no reason for them to do what they do, then they're just creating another paradox, when what they want is a stable time loop).
If Doc and Marty stayed in the dark 1985 and prevented Lorraine from shooting Biff, that might save Biff's heart and prevent one paradox, but the Doc of dark 1985 doesn't create any time machines (he gets locked up in a mental hospital), which creates even more paradoxes, so Doc and Marty really have no choice but to go all the way back to 1955 to clean up the timeline (while allowing Old Biff to make a failed attempt at messing it up).
Old Biff had some time to correct his mistake, just as Marty did in BTTF1. But Old Biff didn't fix his mistake, he immediately jumped back to the future. That's when Old Biff's failure was set in stone, and the timeline began the process of destroying the future, beginning with Old Biff, right in his fucking heart (because the timeline seems to be almost sentient, and it doesn't like it when time travelers fuck it's shit up). Since it takes time for things to be erased, and Biff was #1 on the universe's hit list, Doc and Marty had time to evacuate.
Doc and Marty don't actually know with scientific certainty that the future after a paradox is a nightmare mess of broken time where the laws of the universe no longer apply, but Doc knows enough to not want to go there.
Also note, when Marty first broke the universe, the universe put a knife to Marty's throat while it insisted that Marty should put things back generally the way they were. After Marty did that, it took seconds, not days, for the universe's knife to be fully withdrawn. I would suggest that this is evidence of a higher power at work in the universe, one that does not like it when time travelers create paradoxes and break the universe. Call it God, call it Death, call it the screenwriter, there's someone out there doing some time janitor work. Old Biff fucked things up, and he had a chance to fix things, but he didn't fix anything, so the universe ripped his heart out, while Doc and Marty got some leeway towards fixing the timeline.
If they remade it today, it's a certainty he'd post to here or Reddit every few minutes asking for advice on how time travel works. It could be a running gag minus the humour.
Old biff returning to the 2015 he left shouldn't have been possible, in fact when Marty and Doc are in the altered timeline 80s Marty even suggests going back to that 2015 to stop old Biff and Doc said it doesn't exist anymore.
The real question is who would take a picture of partially disappearing people in the first place.
The new timeline has Loraine kill him in 1996 so old Biff's existence is a paradox on the new timeline so he gets erased.
OP
OP
He almost got in a fight when 50s Biff called him chicken in part 1. Then in part 2 again he didn't like future Biff Jr calling him chicken.
And I don't think he would have let Biff call his dad a loser in any time line
Lol so true. It's some Looper-style updating temporal instance bullshit.
It's a bit inconsistent though. Some changes happen instantly, sometimes there is a ripple and it takes time.
For example, Biff dying in 2015 happens in a ripple. Probably this was done because it was visually dramatic.
However, Marty refusing to race in the drag race at the end of the third movie instantly wipes the note from 2015 telling Marty he's fired. There's no ripple for that one.
OP
OP
I love this idea that the timeline is slowly cleaning up itself to avoid any paradox's. But one thing just hit me from your explaination. We see Marty's hand slowly disappearing. We know his brother disappeared first, starting with his head. So does that mean that while Marty was ducking around in the 50s that his brother was somewhere in the 80s fading piece by piece, starting with his head?
This is a great explanation. It should also be mentioned the Delorean actually protects the people travelling in it. So while things were changing in 1985 to 2015 being in the Delorean sllowed them to exist in that timeline (1985a) skipping the time ripple.
I assume from his explanation only time traveller's would feel the effects Martys brother would just be erased when the time ripple hits so he would not see or feel it.
I would suggest that yes, Marty's brother started to lose his head, and he could probably feel it and it was probably painful for him and sent him into a panic, and other people could probably see him suffering and they didn't know what was going on (like how the band reacted to Marty's inability to play the guitar). But after Marty's brother was fully wiped from existence, he was also wiped from the memories of the people around him (not Marty, not yet, because Marty was last on the list to experience changes, either because of math or malice), so those people stopped reacting to his slow demise and went about their business as if Marty's brother had simply never been. First you suffer from partial erasure, then you don't exist, and from a technical standpoint, once you're gone, that means your suffering no longer existed in the past either.
I would also suggest that Marty's family was erased top-down because there was no particular reason for them to be erased one way or another (they just needed to be erased slow enough for Marty to notice, and top-down was a simple enough way to erase them). While Old Biff was erased heart-out because he got himself shot in the heart in 1985, so erasing his heart first has obvious meaning and deliberateness. But I think Marty was erased starting with his hand because he happened to be playing the guitar at the time. The universe was specifically trying to fuck with Marty, and get his attention. This didn't affect Marty's results, because George was already on track to lock in the new future (or is that the new past?) without any more intervention from Marty, but the universe wanted to give Marty one final squeeze, one smack on the ass before sending him on his way. A brief punishment for having messed with things he shouldn't have. Marty was paying significant attention to his hands, so that's why his hands were the first parts of him to go.
It doesn't really operate on any theory. That's why it's stupid to analyse it like it's good time travel.
Movie's great though.
ITT we see the damage Avengers: Endgame did to time travel movies.
I think there is no multiverse in BttF. Old Biff can return to the 2015 where Doc and Marty are because... There is only one 2015. The fact that we see Marty dissapearing on Bttf1 tells us that if Marty and Doc stayed on 2015 after old Biff travels to give himself the almanac, reality in 2015 would slowly begin to transform to the alternate reality where Biff was rich. They travelling at that moment with the DeLorean saved them from those time ripples so they rember their reality and how ammend it.
I think there is no multiverse in BttF. Old Biff can return to the 2015 where Doc and Marty are because... There is only one 2015. The fact that we see Marty dissapearing on Bttf1 tells us that if Marty and Doc stayed on 2015 after old Biff travels to give himself the almanac, reality in 2015 would slowly begin to transform to the alternate reality where Biff was rich. They travelling at that moment with the DeLorean saved them from those time ripples so they rember their reality and how ammend it.
I like to pretend that the reason the gf changed actresses was because changed something in the past:)
That doesn't quite add up:
- If you mean "people only self-coexist when BOTH of them are time-displaced", this is refuted by Marty at the end watching beginning-Marty drive the DeLorean to escape Doc's murderers. At that time, beginning-Marty is not time displaced yet.
- If you mean "people only coexist when ONE of them are time-displaced, that's exactly what happens at the end when Marty returns from the past. And indeed it coexists with beginning-Marty (or, presumably, the new version of beginning-Marty that had a perfect life), but the immediate question then is, where did that Marty go? Did he further change the past in any way? And more importantly, why didn't he return to the present (at that point, both Martys would be time-displaced, so by your logic, both should coexist).
There's really only an explanation that makes sense, and that is that new-Marty got stranded in the past or even died, all without changing the past significantly, but of course that doesn't quite make for a happy ending. :)
Treat it almost like it's a soft-magic fantasy movie rather than a SciFi movie. The Time Travel rules are there to feed the ongoing drama, rather than the onging drama being driven by the Time Travel rules.
The answer is that part 2 introduced elements that messed with the perfect script that is Back to the Future.
Note: I like all three BTTF films, but the multiverse stuff retroactively adds inconsistencies to the first film.
Note: I like all three BTTF films, but the multiverse stuff retroactively adds inconsistencies to the first film.
Because it's a concise, visual and easily understandable way to convey to the audience the chance of the pivotal moment happening that results in his birth is becoming increasingly unlikely to happen and adds a ticking clock dimension to the climax of the film; the earlier disappearance of his older siblings adding to the context nicely.
If you're taking it in any other way than the "rules" BTTF contains within itself and it's purpose for dramatic and narrative ends you're over thinking it.
If you're taking it in any other way than the "rules" BTTF contains within itself and it's purpose for dramatic and narrative ends you're over thinking it.
It was pretty much just for the audience's sake to give them a visual indication that things are serious. Basically to say that "Lorraine and George need to hurry up and kiss already or else I'm dead."
Someone posted the Pitch Meeting above, it's brilliant and true. It's just a movie. Time travel isn't real, so we don't know how it would even work if it was, so they obviously need to do something to tell the audience what's happening. Obviously if Marty's brother didn't exist that photo wouldn't have been taken in that exact same position and angle. Obviously if Doc doesn't die in the old west, Marty wouldn't have taken a photo of an unfinished tombstone nor would that unfinished tombstone have been stuck in the ground if no one was in a grave there. It's just for the audience. Not to mention them still living in the same house despite George and the other two kids being super successful. And STILL employing the bully who tried to rape his wife. It's all for the audience.
Someone posted the Pitch Meeting above, it's brilliant and true. It's just a movie. Time travel isn't real, so we don't know how it would even work if it was, so they obviously need to do something to tell the audience what's happening. Obviously if Marty's brother didn't exist that photo wouldn't have been taken in that exact same position and angle. Obviously if Doc doesn't die in the old west, Marty wouldn't have taken a photo of an unfinished tombstone nor would that unfinished tombstone have been stuck in the ground if no one was in a grave there. It's just for the audience. Not to mention them still living in the same house despite George and the other two kids being super successful. And STILL employing the bully who tried to rape his wife. It's all for the audience.
Its basically a fun kids movie like Jurassic Park. You aren't supposed to think its real. Might as well also explain how Santa Claus can't be real.
Its edited in a way that makes the thumbnail click bait [and it is, its designed that way to attract your attnetion because of how over the top it looks] and that makes it obnoxious to me.
I mean, it's Screenrant. The Pitch Meetings are the only thing they publish that isn't click bait lol
